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BUSTED! THE SHROUD OF TURIN HOAX . THOSE WHO PORTRAY THIS IMAGE ARE AS GUILTY OF THE LIE | |
Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346  United States02/05/2013 12:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Here's an excerpt from an article about the latest findings... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213  The new study is the latest intriguing piece of a puzzle which has baffled scientists for centuries and spawned an entire industry of research, books and documentaries. Related Articles The Turin Shroud is fake. Get over it 20 Dec 2011 What is the Turin Shroud? 07 Jun 2011 Filmmaker claims Christ Crucifixion find 12 Apr 2011 Top five religious mysteries 07 Jun 2011 Jesus 'discoveries' 12 Apr 2011 Pope pays homage to Turin Shroud 02 May 2010 "The double image (front and back) of a scourged and crucified man, barely visible on the linen cloth of the Shroud of Turin, has many physical and chemical characteristics that are so particular that the staining ... is impossible to obtain in a laboratory," concluded experts from Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Development. The scientists set out to "identify the physical and chemical processes capable of generating a colour similar to that of the image on the Shroud." They concluded that the exact shade, texture and depth of the imprints on the cloth could only be produced with the aid of ultraviolet lasers – technology that was clearly not available in medieval times. The scientists used extremely brief pulses of ultraviolet light to replicate the kind of marks found on the burial cloth. They concluded that the iconic image of the bearded man must therefore have been created by "some form of electromagnetic energy (such as a flash of light at short wavelength)." Although they stopped short of offering a non-scientific explanation for the phenomenon, their findings will be embraced by those who believe that the marks on the shroud were miraculously created at the moment of Christ's Resurrection. "We are not at the conclusion, we are composing pieces of a fascinating and complex scientific puzzle," the team wrote in their report. Prof Paolo Di Lazzaro, the head of the team, said: "When one talks about a flash of light being able to colour a piece of linen in the same way as the shroud, discussion inevitably touches on things like miracles and resurrection." "But as scientists, we were concerned only with verifiable scientific processes. We hope our results can open up a philosophical and theological debate but we will leave the conclusions to the experts, and ultimately to the conscience of individuals." The research, conducted in laboratories in Frascati, a town outside Rome famous for its white wine, backs up the outcome of tests by a group of 31 American scientists between 1978 and 1981. The Americans – who called themselves the Shroud of Turin Research Project or STURP – conducted 120 hours of X-rays and ultraviolet light tests on the linen cloth. They concluded that the marks were not made by paints, pigments or dyes and that the image was not "the product of an artist", but that at the same time it could not be explained by modern science. "There are no chemical or physical methods known which can account for the totality of the image, nor can any combination of physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances explain the image adequately." The US team – which included nuclear physicists, thermal chemists, biophysicists and forensic pathologists – concluded: "The image is an ongoing mystery." One of Christianity's greatest objects of veneration, the shroud appears to show the imprint of a man with long hair and a beard whose body bears wounds consistent with having been crucified. Each year it lures millions of pilgrims to Turin Cathedral, where it is kept in a specially designed, climate-controlled case. Thus sayeth the Lord and one true God Eh'yeh asher Eh'Yeh  ISAIAH 53:2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. ISAIAH CHAPTER 50:6 6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. ISAIAH CHAPTER 52:14 14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage{FACE} was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: PROOF vis·age/ˈvɪzɪdʒ/ Show Spelled [viz-ij] Show IPA noun 1. the face, usually with reference to shape, features, expression, etc.; countenance. 2. aspect; appearance. Origin: 1250–1300; Middle English < Anglo-French, Old French, equivalent to vis face 1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346 United States02/05/2013 12:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Here's an excerpt from an article about the latest findings... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213 The new study is the latest intriguing piece of a puzzle which has baffled scientists for centuries and spawned an entire industry of research, books and documentaries. Related Articles The Turin Shroud is fake. Get over it 20 Dec 2011 What is the Turin Shroud? 07 Jun 2011 Filmmaker claims Christ Crucifixion find 12 Apr 2011 Top five religious mysteries 07 Jun 2011 Jesus 'discoveries' 12 Apr 2011 Pope pays homage to Turin Shroud 02 May 2010 "The double image (front and back) of a scourged and crucified man, barely visible on the linen cloth of the Shroud of Turin, has many physical and chemical characteristics that are so particular that the staining ... is impossible to obtain in a laboratory," concluded experts from Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Development. The scientists set out to "identify the physical and chemical processes capable of generating a colour similar to that of the image on the Shroud." They concluded that the exact shade, texture and depth of the imprints on the cloth could only be produced with the aid of ultraviolet lasers – technology that was clearly not available in medieval times. The scientists used extremely brief pulses of ultraviolet light to replicate the kind of marks found on the burial cloth. They concluded that the iconic image of the bearded man must therefore have been created by "some form of electromagnetic energy (such as a flash of light at short wavelength)." Although they stopped short of offering a non-scientific explanation for the phenomenon, their findings will be embraced by those who believe that the marks on the shroud were miraculously created at the moment of Christ's Resurrection. "We are not at the conclusion, we are composing pieces of a fascinating and complex scientific puzzle," the team wrote in their report. Prof Paolo Di Lazzaro, the head of the team, said: "When one talks about a flash of light being able to colour a piece of linen in the same way as the shroud, discussion inevitably touches on things like miracles and resurrection." "But as scientists, we were concerned only with verifiable scientific processes. We hope our results can open up a philosophical and theological debate but we will leave the conclusions to the experts, and ultimately to the conscience of individuals." The research, conducted in laboratories in Frascati, a town outside Rome famous for its white wine, backs up the outcome of tests by a group of 31 American scientists between 1978 and 1981. The Americans – who called themselves the Shroud of Turin Research Project or STURP – conducted 120 hours of X-rays and ultraviolet light tests on the linen cloth. They concluded that the marks were not made by paints, pigments or dyes and that the image was not "the product of an artist", but that at the same time it could not be explained by modern science. "There are no chemical or physical methods known which can account for the totality of the image, nor can any combination of physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances explain the image adequately." The US team – which included nuclear physicists, thermal chemists, biophysicists and forensic pathologists – concluded: "The image is an ongoing mystery." One of Christianity's greatest objects of veneration, the shroud appears to show the imprint of a man with long hair and a beard whose body bears wounds consistent with having been crucified. Each year it lures millions of pilgrims to Turin Cathedral, where it is kept in a specially designed, climate-controlled case. DID ISAIAH CHP5 LIE TO US? GOD FORBID! He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him So then who is this you uphold as your savior?  Cesare Borgia is in the book entitled Triptych of Poisoners, and is also in the book entitled Cesare Borgia His Life and Times by Sarah Bradford. Between 1502 and 1503, he employed Leonardo da Vinci as a military architect and engineer, in which him and Leonardo da Vinci became intimate instantaneously, they were lovers. To express his love towards Cesare, Leonardo painted many pictures of him. Cesare's Father Rodrigo Borgia, who later became Pope Alexander VI, under the authority of the Catholic Church Elite, had his son picture put up as Jesus Christ in the Western World. Cesare had sex with his own sister Lucrezia, and he killed his brother Giovanni in 1497, and this is the man whom the Catholic Church gave their consent to allowing his picture to be put up and portrayed as Jesus Christ to deceive the whole world to think Christ was European 1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 20541213 United States02/05/2013 12:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Neim's wrong. (so sorry guy, well not really) In brief, the findings of the Italian study, the latest scientific study: + + + "The Italian researchers, who conducted dozens of hours of tests with X-rays and ultraviolet lights, said that no laser existed to date that could replicate the singular nature of markings on the shroud. They also said that the kind of markings on the cloth could not have come from direct contact of the body with the linen. Previous investigation has determined the markings could not have come from pigments or dyes. The Italian scientists said the marks could only have been made by “a short and intense burst of VUV directional radiation.” Such technology did not exist in the time the skeptics claim the shroud could have been forged." from an ABC News, a secular writing.... |
| Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346 United States02/05/2013 12:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Neim's wrong. (so sorry guy, well not really) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213 In brief, the findings of the Italian study, the latest scientific study: + + + "The Italian researchers, who conducted dozens of hours of tests with X-rays and ultraviolet lights, said that no laser existed to date that could replicate the singular nature of markings on the shroud. They also said that the kind of markings on the cloth could not have come from direct contact of the body with the linen. Previous investigation has determined the markings could not have come from pigments or dyes. The Italian scientists said the marks could only have been made by “a short and intense burst of VUV directional radiation.” Such technology did not exist in the time the skeptics claim the shroud could have been forged." from an ABC News, a secular writing.... No you can't you have to believe the word. Thus sayeth the Lord and one true God Eh'yeh asher Eh'Yeh are calling GOd a liar? when he put it in the word  ISAIAH 53:2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. ISAIAH CHAPTER 50:6 6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.  ISAIAH CHAPTER 52:14 14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage{FACE} was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: PROOF vis·age/ˈvɪzɪdʒ/ Show Spelled [viz-ij] Show IPA noun 1. the face, usually with reference to shape, features, expression, etc.; countenance. 2. aspect; appearance. Origin: 1250–1300; Middle English < Anglo-French, O 1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346 United States02/05/2013 12:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Neim's wrong. (so sorry guy, well not really) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213 In brief, the findings of the Italian study, the latest scientific study: + + + "The Italian researchers, who conducted dozens of hours of tests with X-rays and ultraviolet lights, said that no laser existed to date that could replicate the singular nature of markings on the shroud. They also said that the kind of markings on the cloth could not have come from direct contact of the body with the linen. Previous investigation has determined the markings could not have come from pigments or dyes. The Italian scientists said the marks could only have been made by “a short and intense burst of VUV directional radiation.” Such technology did not exist in the time the skeptics claim the shroud could have been forged." from an ABC News, a secular writing.... 8 But that which is made with hands is cursed, as well it, as he that made it: he, because he made it; and it, because, being corruptible, it was called god. Ecclisiasticus wisdom of solomon 9 For the ungodly and his ungodliness are both alike hateful unto God. 10 For that which is made shall be punished together with him that made it. 11 Therefore even upon the idols of the Gentiles shall there be a visitation: because in the creature of God they are become an abomination, and stumblingblocks to the souls of men, and a snare to the feet of the unwise. 12 For the devising of idols was the beginning of spiritual fornication, and the invention of them the corruption of life. 13 For neither were they from the beginning, neither shall they be for ever. 14 For by the vain glory of men they entered into the world, and therefore shall they come shortly to an end. 15 For a father afflicted with untimely mourning, when he hath made an image of his child soon taken away, now honoured him as a god, which was then a dead man, and delivered to those that were under him ceremonies and sacrifices. 16 Thus in process of time an ungodly custom grown strong was kept as a law, and graven images were worshipped by the commandments of kings. 17 Whom men could not honour in presence, because they dwelt far off, they took the counterfeit of his visage from far, and made an express image of a king whom they honoured, to the end that by this their forwardness they might flatter him that was absent, as if he were present. 18 Also the singular diligence of the artificer did help to set forward the ignorant to more superstition. 19 For he, peradventure willing to please one in authority, forced all his skill to make the resemblance of the best fashion. Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 02/05/2013 12:27 AM 1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 6743709 United States02/05/2013 12:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, in other words OP...you have no real evidence just a bunch of colorful misinterpreted scripture. Quoting: Chip Dumbass. ^ ^ ^ Thanks ... I was just thinking the same thing (but you said it best!!) Everyone knows the "carbon dating test" that was performed on the shroud was NOT taken from several places on the shroud (as required for accuracy) but only on a small portion of the shroud. This portion was later discovered to be a section of the shroud that was repaired after sustaining damage in a fire during the 13th century. This and other testing errors gave the false (more recent) date, which was later found to be scientifically unreliable when the original 1988 radiocarbon test was reviewed and deemed INACCURATE and poorly performed. Again, this is WELL-KNOWN information!!!! LOOK IT UP, OP : [link to www.innoval.com] |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 20541213 United States02/05/2013 12:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1 Peter 5:13 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213 The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you: and so doth my son Mark. [link to www.drbo.org] Neim, Babylon is a place, you're in error. Peter, as leader of the first Christians understood about persecution. A code word was used for Rome. Babylon is referenced many times as a place and as an idea. Pray my child and find the true meaning. Babylon an many references becomes a symbol, both as a place and as a lesson. Thank you for saying Babylon is a place. Peter said "in"... Rome at the time was a very sinful place and Romans were murdering the first Christians. Peter was crucified upside down! In the messages from Heaven (private revelation), Our Lord says about these end times, Babylon is the entire world. Pretty obvious, look at our country, for forty years we have legalized the murder of our own children and approved of the act of the sin of sodomy. God bless you, |
| Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346 United States02/05/2013 12:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, in other words OP...you have no real evidence just a bunch of colorful misinterpreted scripture. Quoting: Chip Dumbass. ^ ^ ^ Thanks ... I was just thinking the same thing (but you said it best!!) Everyone knows the "carbon dating test" that was performed on the shroud was NOT taken from several places on the shroud (as required for accuracy) but only on a small portion of the shroud. This portion was later discovered to be a section of the shroud that was repaired after sustaining damage in a fire during the 13th century. This and other testing errors gave the false (more recent) date, which was later found to be scientifically unreliable when the original 1988 radiocarbon test was reviewed and deemed INACCURATE and poorly performed. Again, this is WELL-KNOWN information!!!! LOOK IT UP, OP : [link to www.innoval.com] 8 But that which is made with hands is cursed, as well it, as he that made it: he, because he made it; and it, because, being corruptible, it was called god. Ecclisiatius wisdom of solomon 9 For the ungodly and his ungodliness are both alike hateful unto God. 10 For that which is made shall be punished together with him that made it. 11 Therefore even upon the idols of the Gentiles shall there be a visitation: because in the creature of God they are become an abomination, and stumblingblocks to the souls of men, and a snare to the feet of the unwise. 12 For the devising of idols was the beginning of spiritual fornication, and the invention of them the corruption of life. 13 For neither were they from the beginning, neither shall they be for ever. 14 For by the vain glory of men they entered into the world, and therefore shall they come shortly to an end. 15 For a father afflicted with untimely mourning, when he hath made an image of his child soon taken away, now honoured him as a god, which was then a dead man, and delivered to those that were under him ceremonies and sacrifices. 16 Thus in process of time an ungodly custom grown strong was kept as a law, and graven images were worshipped by the commandments of kings. 17 Whom men could not honour in presence, because they dwelt far off, they took the counterfeit of his visage from far, and made an express image of a king whom they honoured, to the end that by this their forwardness they might flatter him that was absent, as if he were present. 18 Also the singular diligence of the artificer did help to set forward the ignorant to more superstition. 19 For he, peradventure willing to please one in authority, forced all his skill to make the resemblance of the best fashion. Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 02/08/2013 09:45 PM 1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 6743709 United States02/05/2013 12:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33130922 The OP has NOT A CLUE what he talking about. The image on the Shroud has been affected by the stretching over the face due to the weight of the material. If this is reverse, the ACTUAL image that one gets from the Shroud is that of a fat faced dude with a huge nose who looks like a plumber's assistant. GET THE HELL OUTTA THIS THREAD. Nobody ask for your stupid opinion. Neim has already proven that the shroud was faked with biblical facts. Go sleep! "Biblical facts"??? Don't you mean subjective interpretations?? What about science? Like the inaccuracy of the carbon dating test?? I agree with his opinion, so why don't YOU go to sleep?? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 20541213 United States02/05/2013 12:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, in other words OP...you have no real evidence just a bunch of colorful misinterpreted scripture. Quoting: Chip Dumbass. ^ ^ ^ Thanks ... I was just thinking the same thing (but you said it best!!) Everyone knows the "carbon dating test" that was performed on the shroud was NOT taken from several places on the shroud (as required for accuracy) but only on a small portion of the shroud. This portion was later discovered to be a section of the shroud that was repaired after sustaining damage in a fire during the 13th century. This and other testing errors gave the false (more recent) date, which was later found to be scientifically unreliable when the original 1988 radiocarbon test was reviewed and deemed INACCURATE and poorly performed. Again, this is WELL-KNOWN information!!!! LOOK IT UP, OP : [link to www.innoval.com]  truly,And about interpreting Scripture. Private interpretation of Scripture is heresy. God did not give everyone the authority to interpret Scripture. Pride, people would come up with their own meanings. The fruit of this heresy is division and error. Many, many Protestant pastors convert to the faith realizing seeing the pastor down the street is preaching something entirely different! God gave the authority to interpret Scripture to the Church, the RCC. Makes sense, she canonized Holy Scripture. read a Catholic Bible and the footnotes. [link to www.drbo.org] |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 4615350 United States02/05/2013 12:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346 United States02/05/2013 12:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, in other words OP...you have no real evidence just a bunch of colorful misinterpreted scripture. Quoting: Chip Dumbass. ^ ^ ^ Thanks ... I was just thinking the same thing (but you said it best!!) Everyone knows the "carbon dating test" that was performed on the shroud was NOT taken from several places on the shroud (as required for accuracy) but only on a small portion of the shroud. This portion was later discovered to be a section of the shroud that was repaired after sustaining damage in a fire during the 13th century. This and other testing errors gave the false (more recent) date, which was later found to be scientifically unreliable when the original 1988 radiocarbon test was reviewed and deemed INACCURATE and poorly performed. Again, this is WELL-KNOWN information!!!! LOOK IT UP, OP : [link to www.innoval.com] truly,And about interpreting Scripture. Private interpretation of Scripture is heresy. God did not give everyone the authority to interpret Scripture. Pride, people would come up with their own meanings. The fruit of this heresy is division and error. Many, many Protestant pastors convert to the faith realizing seeing the pastor down the street is preaching something entirely different! God gave the authority to interpret Scripture to the Church, the RCC. Makes sense, she canonized Holy Scripture. read a Catholic Bible and the footnotes. [link to www.drbo.org] 8 But that which is made with hands is cursed, as well it, as he that made it: he, because he made it; and it, because, being corruptible, it was called god. Ecclisiatius wisdom of solomon 9 For the ungodly and his ungodliness are both alike hateful unto God. 10 For that which is made shall be punished together with him that made it. 11 Therefore even upon the idols of the Gentiles shall there be a visitation: because in the creature of God they are become an abomination, and stumblingblocks to the souls of men, and a snare to the feet of the unwise. 12 For the devising of idols was the beginning of spiritual fornication, and the invention of them the corruption of life. 13 For neither were they from the beginning, neither shall they be for ever. 14 For by the vain glory of men they entered into the world, and therefore shall they come shortly to an end. 15 For a father afflicted with untimely mourning, when he hath made an image of his child soon taken away, now honoured him as a god, which was then a dead man, and delivered to those that were under him ceremonies and sacrifices. 16 Thus in process of time an ungodly custom grown strong was kept as a law, and graven images were worshipped by the commandments of kings. 17 Whom men could not honour in presence, because they dwelt far off, they took the counterfeit of his visage from far, and made an express image of a king whom they honoured, to the end that by this their forwardness they might flatter him that was absent, as if he were present. 18 Also the singular diligence of the artificer did help to set forward the ignorant to more superstition. 19 For he, peradventure willing to please one in authority, forced all his skill to make the resemblance of the best fashion. 1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 20541213 United States02/05/2013 12:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So, in other words OP...you have no real evidence just a bunch of colorful misinterpreted scripture. Quoting: Chip Dumbass. ^ ^ ^ Thanks ... I was just thinking the same thing (but you said it best!!) Everyone knows the "carbon dating test" that was performed on the shroud was NOT taken from several places on the shroud (as required for accuracy) but only on a small portion of the shroud. This portion was later discovered to be a section of the shroud that was repaired after sustaining damage in a fire during the 13th century. This and other testing errors gave the false (more recent) date, which was later found to be scientifically unreliable when the original 1988 radiocarbon test was reviewed and deemed INACCURATE and poorly performed. Again, this is WELL-KNOWN information!!!! LOOK IT UP, OP : [link to www.innoval.com] 8 But that which is made with hands is cursed, as well it, as he that made it: he, because he made it; and it, because, being corruptible, it was called god. Ecclisiatius wisdom of solomon 9 For the ungodly and his ungodliness are both alike hateful unto God. 10 For that which is made shall be punished together with him that made it. 11 Therefore even upon the idols of the Gentiles shall there be a visitation: because in the creature of God they are become an abomination, and stumblingblocks to the souls of men, and a snare to the feet of the unwise. 12 For the devising of idols was the beginning of spiritual fornication, and the invention of them the corruption of life. 13 For neither were they from the beginning, neither shall they be for ever. 14 For by the vain glory of men they entered into the world, and therefore shall they come shortly to an end. 15 For a father afflicted with untimely mourning, when he hath made an image of his child soon taken away, now honoured him as a god, which was then a dead man, and delivered to those that were under him ceremonies and sacrifices. 16 Thus in process of time an ungodly custom grown strong was kept as a law, and graven images were worshipped by the commandments of kings. 17 Whom men could not honour in presence, because they dwelt far off, they took the counterfeit of his visage from far, and made an express image of a king whom they honoured, to the end that by this their forwardness they might flatter him that was absent, as if he were present. 18 Also the singular diligence of the artificer did help to set forward the ignorant to more superstition. 19 For he, peradventure willing to please one in authority, forced all his skill to make the resemblance of the best fashion. Same old, same old, you're cancelled Neim. You should be happy, imagine, the power of God...in an instant. Amen and Alleluia. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 20541213 United States02/05/2013 12:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Neim's wrong. (so sorry guy, well not really) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213 In brief, the findings of the Italian study, the latest scientific study: + + + "The Italian researchers, who conducted dozens of hours of tests with X-rays and ultraviolet lights, said that no laser existed to date that could replicate the singular nature of markings on the shroud. They also said that the kind of markings on the cloth could not have come from direct contact of the body with the linen. Previous investigation has determined the markings could not have come from pigments or dyes. The Italian scientists said the marks could only have been made by “a short and intense burst of VUV directional radiation.” Such technology did not exist in the time the skeptics claim the shroud could have been forged." from an ABC News, a secular writing....  |
| Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346 United States02/05/2013 12:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Neim's wrong. (so sorry guy, well not really) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213 In brief, the findings of the Italian study, the latest scientific study: + + + "The Italian researchers, who conducted dozens of hours of tests with X-rays and ultraviolet lights, said that no laser existed to date that could replicate the singular nature of markings on the shroud. They also said that the kind of markings on the cloth could not have come from direct contact of the body with the linen. Previous investigation has determined the markings could not have come from pigments or dyes. The Italian scientists said the marks could only have been made by “a short and intense burst of VUV directional radiation.” Such technology did not exist in the time the skeptics claim the shroud could have been forged." from an ABC News, a secular writing.... Now let us expose these people who claim they read their bible.. the shroud of tUrin is a 14ft by 3ft piece of linen as we know Let us look at what the bible says! again the BIBLE JOHN CHAPTER 20 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. 5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. 6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, 7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. 8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. NAPKIN: STRONGS CONCORDANCE 1) a handkerchief 2) a cloth for wiping perspiration from the face and for cleaning the nose and also used in swathing the head of a corpse 1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346 United States02/05/2013 12:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Neim's wrong. (so sorry guy, well not really) Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213 In brief, the findings of the Italian study, the latest scientific study: + + + "The Italian researchers, who conducted dozens of hours of tests with X-rays and ultraviolet lights, said that no laser existed to date that could replicate the singular nature of markings on the shroud. They also said that the kind of markings on the cloth could not have come from direct contact of the body with the linen. Previous investigation has determined the markings could not have come from pigments or dyes. The Italian scientists said the marks could only have been made by “a short and intense burst of VUV directional radiation.” Such technology did not exist in the time the skeptics claim the shroud could have been forged." from an ABC News, a secular writing.... Now let us expose these people who claim they read their bible.. the shroud of tUrin is a 14ft by 3ft piece of linen as we know Let us look at what the bible says! again the BIBLE JOHN CHAPTER 20 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. 5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. 6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, 7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. 8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. NAPKIN: STRONGS CONCORDANCE 1) a handkerchief 2) a cloth for wiping perspiration from the face and for cleaning the nose and also used in swathing the head of a corpse  1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Spitting Into The Wind User ID: 16376408 United States02/05/2013 12:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | All of this bickering... Vanity, folks! None of this matter if you do not hear His voice, literally. OP, I may not agree with you at times, but you are on the money with this. The only evidence we need is the Holy Spirit working through us, shaping us by trials and lessons into His Son's image. You are one of two believers I have seen on this forum who have admitted to being mistaken. Keep striving for truth; only share it when HE tells you to--that is the true Sabbath. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 20541213 United States02/05/2013 01:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | All of this bickering... Quoting: Spitting Into The Wind Vanity, folks! None of this matter if you do not hear His voice, literally. OP, I may not agree with you at times, but you are on the money with this. The only evidence we need is the Holy Spirit working through us, shaping us by trials and lessons into His Son's image. You are one of two believers I have seen on this forum who have admitted to being mistaken. Keep striving for truth; only share it when HE tells you to--that is the true Sabbath. No bickering, Neim rejects the mystical and science tested findings saying science can't produce the UV rays yet that made the marks on the Shroud. God gives signs, miracles, they are a help to strengthen your faith. Believe. "The Italian researchers, who conducted dozens of hours of tests with X-rays and ultraviolet lights, said that no laser existed to date that could replicate the singular nature of markings on the shroud. They also said that the kind of markings on the cloth could not have come from direct contact of the body with the linen. Previous investigation has determined the markings could not have come from pigments or dyes. The Italian scientists said the marks could only have been made by “a short and intense burst of VUV directional radiation.” Such technology did not exist in the time the skeptics claim the shroud could have been forged." the above, from an ABC News, a secular writing.... |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 33702765 United States02/05/2013 01:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Taking Jesus' body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar So Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean shroud and put it in his own new tomb which he had hewn out of the rock. (Matthew 27:59-60) Having been assured of this by the centurion, he granted the corpse to Joseph who brought a shroud, took Jesus down from the cross, wrapped him in the shroud and laid him in a tomb which had been hewn out of the rock. (Mark 15:46) Then a member of the council arrived, an upright and virtuous man named Joseph. He had not consented to what the others had planned and carried out. He came from Arimathaea, a Jewish town, and he lived in the hope of seeing the kingdom of God. This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. He then took it down, wrapped it in a shroud and put him in a tomb which was hewn in stone in which no one had yet been laid. (Luke 23:50-54) After this, Joseph of Arimathaea, who was a disciple of Jesus - though a secret one because he was afraid of the Jews - asked Pilate to let him remove the body of Jesus. Pilate gave permission, so they came and took it away. Nicodemus came as well - the same one who had first come to Jesus at night-time - and he brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, weighing about a hundred pounds. They took the body of Jesus and wrapped it with the spices in linen cloths, following the Jewish burial custom. (John 19:38-40) From Wikipedia: "The Sudarium of Oviedo, or Shroud of Oviedo, is a bloodstained cloth, measuring c. 84 x 53 cm, kept in the Cámara Santa of the Cathedral of San Salvador, Oviedo, Spain. The Sudarium (Latin for sweat cloth) is claimed to be the cloth wrapped around the head of Jesus Christ after he died, as mentioned in the Gospel of John (20:6-7)...Many of the stains on the Sudarium match those on the head portion of the Shroud of Turin...Blood tests done on both the Sudarium and the Shroud confirmed that the blood stains on both cloths were of the same type: AB, a common blood type among Middle Eastern people but fairly rare among medieval Europeans. The presence of blood on the Shroud was proven by the STURP scientists and experts who studied the linen cloth and cataloged its data..."( [link to en.wikipedia.org] |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 12083851 United States02/05/2013 01:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Turin or no Turin it really does not matter to me. I'm a definitely a sinner that believes in Jesus Christ he is my Lord and Savior. If the Turin is fake in debates Atheists, Agnostics and unbelievers will have the advantage on Theists. But either way that does not matter to me. For I saw Jesus Christ. At first when I saw him it made me feel special........boy was I so wrong. :( He did indeed look like how he's normally presented in America. Dark hair....light skin. To be honest I didn't expect him to look that way. Like I said at first I thought I was special for seeing my Lord.(This happened many months ago) But it was his face expression....that got me thinking after that day(a lot of thinking) no smile...or arm extended out trying to reach for me. Just briefly gazing at me with a very.....very serious stare. Honestly I have my theory of why this occurred. But I must continue and good luck to you OP. In Jesus name amen. |
| Ozicell User ID: 33380026  Australia02/05/2013 01:49 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | People who are determined to debunk this thin are just as bad as people who are determined to worship it! Which ever way you look at it - real or hoax - it remains an interesting curiosity! That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 29546692  Bahamas02/05/2013 09:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Boy Neim some of the idiots still ain't getting it. They're trying to debunk the true word of God with false science. The scripture and verse you've provided clearly says that his hairs were ripped from his face but the shroud still has facial hair. And his face was covered with a handkerchief of some sort. This only proves with these guys that's trying to debunk what you have proven that Satan is working overtime to discredit Gods words. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 33545960 United States02/05/2013 09:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If Jesus was black then your people have failed to follow his commandments. You have not preached the gospel to the world. On the contrary it's the whites who have spread the gospel to the world. Your people have not formed 'many great nations' as prophesied. There is only one group of people in the world that fit the biblical description for the Israelites, and that is the European peoples. I've seen your type before, that is 'Black Hebrew Israelites'. I truly feel sorry for you, for you have been greatly deceived. Wherever your people go there is starvation, destruction, and death. It's not our fault, so stop blaming us. |
| Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346 United States02/05/2013 09:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If Jesus was black then your people have failed to follow his commandments. You have not preached the gospel to the world. On the contrary it's the whites who have spread the gospel to the world. Your people have not formed 'many great nations' as prophesied. There is only one group of people in the world that fit the biblical description for the Israelites, and that is the European peoples. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33545960 I've seen your type before, that is 'Black Hebrew Israelites'. I truly feel sorry for you, for you have been greatly deceived. Wherever your people go there is starvation, destruction, and death. It's not our fault, so stop blaming us. This is not about Jesus being black or white or purple it is scriptures and proof of lies in the churches Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 02/05/2013 09:26 AM 1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Neim-Ya'shar (OP) User ID: 33598346 United States02/05/2013 09:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Boy Neim some of the idiots still ain't getting it. They're trying to debunk the true word of God with false science. The scripture and verse you've provided clearly says that his hairs were ripped from his face but the shroud still has facial hair. And his face was covered with a handkerchief of some sort. This only proves with these guys that's trying to debunk what you have proven that Satan is working overtime to discredit Gods words. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29546692 thats ok they have the truth and they are without excuse.Many will not change their ways adn believe the word so they make it like its a race issue. So do not fear the reason they are here is because they know it is the truth and are in denial 1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt, 42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land. 43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river. 44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over. 45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth. 46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come, :knoup: |
| Petrus User ID: 2543962  Canada02/05/2013 09:36 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Petrus User ID: 2543962 Canada02/05/2013 09:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Turin or no Turin it really does not matter to me. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12083851 I'm a definitely a sinner that believes in Jesus Christ he is my Lord and Savior. If the Turin is fake in debates Atheists, Agnostics and unbelievers will have the advantage on Theists. But either way that does not matter to me. For I saw Jesus Christ. At first when I saw him it made me feel special........boy was I so wrong. :( He did indeed look like how he's normally presented in America. Dark hair....light skin. To be honest I didn't expect him to look that way. Like I said at first I thought I was special for seeing my Lord.(This happened many months ago) But it was his face expression....that got me thinking after that day(a lot of thinking) no smile...or arm extended out trying to reach for me. Just briefly gazing at me with a very.....very serious stare. Honestly I have my theory of why this occurred. But I must continue and good luck to you OP. In Jesus name amen. Thank you it is importnt to make people aware of the lies of rome and stop this idol worship You assume that whoever believes the Shroud is genuine is an idolator? Why not welcome the fact that it's PROOF for the world to see, a PHOTOGRAPH of the moment Christ rose from the dead? No, you want to spew out venom to discourage people to believe. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 32117032  Netherlands02/05/2013 09:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 28472873 United States02/05/2013 10:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27325042 Bahamas02/05/2013 10:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If Jesus was black then your people have failed to follow his commandments. You have not preached the gospel to the world. On the contrary it's the whites who have spread the gospel to the world. Your people have not formed 'many great nations' as prophesied. There is only one group of people in the world that fit the biblical description for the Israelites, and that is the European peoples. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33545960 I've seen your type before, that is 'Black Hebrew Israelites'. I truly feel sorry for you, for you have been greatly deceived. Wherever your people go there is starvation, destruction, and death. It's not our fault, so stop blaming us. i hope you realize that the israelites originated out of africa not europe. the only prophesy that you have fulfilled is that of the blessings of esau. |
