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Reincarnation in the Bible

 
Amilius
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Reincarnation in the Bible
From book: "I have lived before" by Sture Lonnerstrand

" Quotations from the Bible

Several Bible quotations indicate the the belief in reincarnation, at the time when Jesus appeared on earth, was generally accepted among the Jews. Here are several quotations:

Jesus asked his disciples: "Who do men say that I, the son of Man, am?" (Matthew 16:13)

The disciples answered: "Some say that you are John the Baptist: some Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets."

If it was not for the fact that reincarnation was generally accepted in the Jewish culture, Jesus would hardly have asked the question in that manner.

Observe that Jesus asked who the people believed he was, not if he had lived before. He took for granted that everyone knew about prior lifetimes.

Another famous remark (John 15:17) which is ascribed to Jesus is as follows:
"You shall bear witness for you have been with me from the beginning."
The beginning must have been alluded to the first words in the Bible, "In the beginning..." It was a question of a rather long period of time.

In another passage (John 9:2), the disciples asked Jesus:
"Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

This question implies, that for the disciples it was quite natural that the man had been inflicted with a handicap due to the fact that he had sinned in an earlier life. It could not have happened in the present incarnation, as he had been blind since birth.

St. Clement of Alexandria stated that the teachings of reincarnation had been authorized by the apostle Paul himself. In a letter to the Galatians (Galatians 6:7) Paul says:

"Be not deceived, God is not mocked: for whoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Paul knew that everything a person sows during an earthly life cannot possibly be reaped during the same lifetime. Sometimes God mills grind slowly

Paul's successors have not, as far as is known, ever questioned the Law regarding sowing and reaping, or the Law of consequences, as it is called.

However, to this day, one has apparently overlooked the fact that Karma and Reincarnation are two sides of the same coin. Reincarnation is not possible without karma and karma cannot function without reincarnation.

There are other places in the New Testament as well as in the Old Testament that suggest reincarnation but they are less known

Elijah and John the Baptist

The Bible's prime example regarding the truth of reincarnation is clearly shown by Jesus himself. The Old Testament and the New Testament come together in an extremely interesting manner when the prophet Elijah, who according the account in the Old Testament (II Kings 2:11) "... went up to heaven in a chariot of fire." (Malachi 4:5)

The New Testament attaches great importance to the question regarding the rebirth of Elijah and has consequently, taken up the subject in several places:

In (Luke 1:17) "Elijah's spirit and power" is talked about, which in the body of John the Baptist would come before the Lord.

In the gospel according to Mark (Mark 9:11) the disciples ask: "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus answers them that Elijah would indeed come first to restore all things (Mark 9:12)

In Matthew (17:12) Jesus is quoted as saying: "But I tell you that Elijah has already come..." "Then disciples understood that it was John the Baptist he was speaking to them about. (Matthew 17:13)"

In Matthew (11:14-15) Jesus is clear as crystal about the baptist's earlier identity. "And if you are willing to accept it, he is ELIJAH, the one who has come." He then adds so that there can be no doubt about it:"Whoever has ears ought to hear."

Can it be said more clearly?

Jesus has with all these words, once and for all established the truth of reincarnation.

"Whoever has ears out to hear!"

The teachings of reincarnation, although still rejected, are nonetheless an important part of Christian heritage, a cornerstone of original Christianity, and a basis of original picture of Christianity throughout the world- in a similar manner that the belief in reincarnation has always been in the oriental religions.

It's important to ascertain that the belief is repeated earthly lives is in no way in conflict with central Christian motives. Its more likely that the teaching of reincarnation strengthens the Christian message, making it more complete, more genuine and more credible.

Many people have wondered how it is possible that Jesus, Christianity's central figure, can still be denied and be so fragrantly misunderstood by his own followers, by his own churches regarding such an important and fundamental question concerning what happens to us when we die.

Its an enigma which remains unsolved."

Last Edited by Amilius on 01/28/2013 05:45 PM
Anonymous Coward
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yea. i heard somewhere that reicarnation was removed from a lot of old text.. because the kings back then.. could not stand to believe that they might come back as a peasent when their luxurious life would end. or something like that, am i right?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
there is a part i read once that says something like "there is no remembered of past lives". i swear i read it but i have no idea where it was.
4Q529

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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
From book: "I have lived before" by Sture Lonnerstrand

" Quotations from the Bible

Several Bible quotations indicate the the belief in reincarnation, at the time when Jesus appeared on earth, was generally accepted among the Jews. Here are several quotations:

Jesus asked his disciples: "Who do men say that I, the son of Man, am?" (Matthew 16:13)

The disciples answered: "Some say that you are John the Baptist: some Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets."

If it was not for the fact that reincarnation was generally accepted in the Jewish culture, Jesus would hardly have asked the question in that manner.

Observe that Jesus asked who the people believed he was, not if he had lived before. He took for granted that everyone knew about prior lifetimes.

Another famous remark (John 15:17) which is ascribed to Jesus is as follows:
"You shall bear witness for you have been with me from the beginning."
The beginning must have been alluded to the first words in the Bible, "In the beginning..." It was a question of a rather long period of time.

In another passage (John 9:2), the disciples asked Jesus:
"Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

This question implies, that for the disciples it was quite natural that the man had been inflicted with a handicap due to the fact that he had sinned in an earlier life. It could not have happened in the present incarnation, as he had been blind since birth.

St. Clement of Alexandria stated that the teachings of reincarnation had been authorized by the apostle Paul himself. In a letter to the Galatians (Galatians 6:7) Paul says:

"Be not deceived, God is not mocked: for whoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Paul knew that everything a person sows during an earthly life cannot possibly be reaped during the same lifetime. Sometimes God mills grind slowly

Paul's successors have not, as far as is known, ever questioned the Law regarding sowing and reaping, or the Law of consequences, as it is called.

However, to this day, one has apparently overlooked the fact that Karma and Reincarnation are two sides of the same coin. Reincarnation is not possible without karma and karma cannot function without reincarnation.

There are other places in the New Testament as well as in the Old Testament that suggest reincarnation but they are less known

Elijah and John the Baptist

The Bible's prime example regarding the truth of reincarnation is clearly shown by Jesus himself. The Old Testament and the New Testament come together in an extremely interesting manner when the prophet Elijah, who according the account in the Old Testament (II Kings 2:11) "... went up to heaven in a chariot of fire." (Malachi 4:5)

The New Testament attaches great importance to the question regarding the rebirth of Elijah and has consequently, taken up the subject in several places:

In (Luke 1:17) "Elijah's spirit and power" is talked about, which in the body of John the Baptist would come before the Lord.

In the gospel according to Mark (Mark 9:11) the disciples ask: "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus answers them that Elijah would indeed come first to restore all things (Mark 9:12)

In Matthew (17:12) Jesus is quoted as saying: "But I tell you that Elijah has already come..." "Then disciples understood that it was John the Baptist he was speaking to them about. (Matthew 17:13)"

In Matthew (11:14-15) Jesus is clear as crystal about the baptist's earlier identity. "And if you are willing to accept it, he is ELIJAH, the one who has come." He then adds so that there can be no doubt about it:"Whoever has ears ought to hear."

Can it be said more clearly?

Jesus has with all these words, once and for all established the truth of reincarnation.

"Whoever has ears out to hear!"

The teachings of reincarnation, although still rejected, are nonetheless an important part of Christian heritage, a cornerstone of original Christianity, and a basis of original picture of Christianity throughout the world- in a similar manner that the belief in reincarnation has always been in the oriental religions.

It's important to ascertain that the belief is repeated earthly lives is in no way in conflict with central Christian motives. Its more likely that the teaching of reincarnation strengthens the Christian message, making it more complete, more genuine and more credible.

Many people have wondered how it is possible that Jesus, Christianity's central figure, can still be denied and be so fragrantly misunderstood by his own followers, by his own churches regarding such an important and fundamental question concerning what happens to us when we die.

Its an enigma which remains unsolved."
 Quoting: Amilius


Well, now you have a problem.

Paul, a Pharisee, believed that the Doctrine of "resurrection" was the raising of a dead physical body from the grave, in echo of the Egyptian 'god of the dead' religion; whereas Jesus taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

Paul would never have accepted the Doctrine of "resurrection" as either "rebirth" or 'reincarnation' because it would have absolutely vitiated the doctrine of "vicarious atonement", which was his 'explanation' for the crucifixion.

In other words, the doctrine of "vicarious atonement" is directly associated with the 'god of the dead'; the 'purpose' of the crucifixion, according to Paul, being so Christians could be with the 'god of the dead' forever in heaven (which is metaphysical philosophy).

And, as with regards to "as you sow, so shall you reap", Paul's resolution of that problem occurred in an after-death existence of heaven or hell rather than in another life in this world.

Michael
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
It's important to ascertain that the belief is repeated earthly lives is in no way in conflict with central Christian motives. Its more likely that the teaching of reincarnation strengthens the Christian message, making it more complete, more genuine and more credible.
 Quoting: Amilius


It does not appear that you understand the basics of Christian theology:

Christians believe in a metaphysical 'heaven' and 'hell'.

With the Doctrine of "resurrection"/'rebirth', there is no need for such metaphysical concepts.

Christians believe that Jesus "died for their sins" so they can "go to heaven" when they die.

But the reason for the crucifixion was not any "vicarious atonement"; but because Jesus taught a Doctrine of "resurrection"/'rebirth'; and for which memories of previous lives they accused him of being "possessed by demons".

There is NO greater conflict in the world than the conflict between the Teaching of Jesus and Christian theology originating in Paul, the Pharisee.

Michael
Amilius (OP)

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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
yea. i heard somewhere that reicarnation was removed from a lot of old text.. because the kings back then.. could not stand to believe that they might come back as a peasent when their luxurious life would end. or something like that, am i right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33209144


Yeah EXACTLY. Where did you get that?
4Q529

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yea. i heard somewhere that reicarnation was removed from a lot of old text.. because the kings back then.. could not stand to believe that they might come back as a peasent when their luxurious life would end. or something like that, am i right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33209144


Yeah EXACTLY. Where did you get that?
 Quoting: Amilius


It almost seems as if the resistance to the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'rebirth' varies directly with how evil a person is.

An evil person would be particularly resistant to the possibility that he or she will live a live in which they will be punished for their evil; whereas a good person who has suffered severely during lifetime would be more likely to believe in the possibility that they will live another life in which they will be rewarded for being good.

In other words, the doctrine of "vicarious atonement" is particular seductive to evil people rather than those who have not committed evil.

Michael
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
yea. i heard somewhere that reicarnation was removed from a lot of old text.. because the kings back then.. could not stand to believe that they might come back as a peasent when their luxurious life would end. or something like that, am i right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33209144


Yeah EXACTLY. Where did you get that?
 Quoting: Amilius


It almost seems as if the resistance to the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'rebirth' varies directly with how evil a person is.

An evil person would be particularly resistant to the possibility that he or she will live a live in which they will be punished for their evil; whereas a good person who has suffered severely during lifetime would be more likely to believe in the possibility that they will live another life in which they will be rewarded for being good.

In other words, the doctrine of "vicarious atonement" is particular seductive to evil people rather than those who have not committed evil.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


Yeah an evil person would not wish to believe they will be punished in an another lifetime while a good person who has suffered will be rewarded. But after learning much and exhausting much negative karma one can once again start anew with a clean slate, no karma. The good and the bad thing about karma is that it is always impermanent. We can't experience good forever, unless we keep doing good, but we won't suffer for our evil forever either. The purpose here is to not reincarnate into a better life but to stop reincarnation indefinitely. Once you achieve enlightenment, you won't need to reincarnate and live in the afterlife in endless bliss.

Last Edited by Amilius on 01/28/2013 06:47 PM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
The Bible used to be plentiful with the teachings of reincarnation, until man derived their agenda.
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
Hebrews 9:27
4Q529

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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
The purpose here is to not reincarnate into a better life but to stop reincarnation indefinitely. Once you achieve enlightenment, you won't need to reincarnate and live in the afterlife in endless bliss.
 Quoting: Amilius


Oops.

This is where there is a disagreement between "resurrection" and 'reincarnation'.

According to the doctrine of 'reincarnation', the world is essentially irredeemable; hence, the only 'redemption' is to stop the 'reincarnational process' altogether.

But, according to the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, it is this world which, ultimately, will be redeemed. That is, there is no escape from living future lives because, at some point, this world will be transformed into something completely different than it is right now.

This world was Created by the Creator to be inhabited, as stated in the Book of Isaiah, in which book is also the first reference to the revelation of the memories of previous lives (Chapter 26:19).

Michael
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
The purpose here is to not reincarnate into a better life but to stop reincarnation indefinitely. Once you achieve enlightenment, you won't need to reincarnate and live in the afterlife in endless bliss.
 Quoting: Amilius


Oops.

This is where there is a disagreement between "resurrection" and 'reincarnation'.

According to the doctrine of 'reincarnation', the world is essentially irredeemable; hence, the only 'redemption' is to stop the 'reincarnational process' altogether.

But, according to the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, it is this world which, ultimately, will be redeemed. That is, there is no escape from living future lives because, at some point, this world will be transformed into something completely different than it is right now.

This world was Created by the Creator to be inhabited, as stated in the Book of Isaiah, in which book is also the first reference to the revelation of the memories of previous lives (Chapter 26:19).

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I think both can be true. I believe in both. Hinduism says we have devolved and must achieve enlightenment and stop reincarnation to become one with God Brahman. I don't know if Buddhism teaches we have devolved but it does teach we are all enlightened just have to wake up. Both religions accept reincarnation and karma and both teach the future will be better for us.
4Q529

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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
Hebrews 9:27
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30099619


Paul's purpose, as a Pharisee, was to turn upside down the Teaching of Jesus on the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'. The Pharisees and Sadducees had Jesus murdered for teaching the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'. Paul was determined to destroy the Teaching of Jesus.

He also makes reference to such believers in the revelation of the memories of previous lives (who "claim that the resurrection has already taken place") in 2 Timothy 2:16-18.

Michael
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
From book: "I have lived before" by Sture Lonnerstrand

" Quotations from the Bible

Several Bible quotations indicate the the belief in reincarnation, at the time when Jesus appeared on earth, was generally accepted among the Jews. Here are several quotations:

Jesus asked his disciples: "Who do men say that I, the son of Man, am?" (Matthew 16:13)

The disciples answered: "Some say that you are John the Baptist: some Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets."

If it was not for the fact that reincarnation was generally accepted in the Jewish culture, Jesus would hardly have asked the question in that manner.

Observe that Jesus asked who the people believed he was, not if he had lived before. He took for granted that everyone knew about prior lifetimes.
hole
Another famous remark (John 15:17) which is ascribed to Jesus is as follows:
"You shall bear witness for you have been with me from the beginning."
The beginning must have been alluded to the first words in the Bible, "In the beginning..." It was a question of a rather long period of time.

In another passage (John 9:2), the disciples asked Jesus:
"Master, who did sin, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
hole
This question implies, that for the disciples it was quite natural that the man had been inflicted with a handicap due to the fact that he had sinned in an earlier life. It could not have happened in the present incarnation, as he had been blind since birth.

St. Clement of Alexandria stated that the teachings of reincarnation had been authorized by the apostle Paul himself. In a letter to the Galatians (Galatians 6:7) Paul says:

"Be not deceived, God is not mocked: for whoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Paul knew that everything a person sows during an earthly life cannot possibly be reaped during the same lifetime. Sometimes God mills grind slowly

Paul's successors have not, as far as is known, ever questioned the Law regarding sowing and reaping, or the Law of consequences, as it is called.

However, to this day, one has apparently overlooked the fact that Karma and Reincarnation are two sides of the same coin. Reincarnation is not possible without karma and karma cannot function without reincarnation.

There are other places in the New Testament as well as in the Old Testament that suggest reincarnation but they are less known

Elijah and John the Baptist

The Bible's prime example regarding the truth of reincarnation is clearly shown by Jesus himself. The Old Testament and the New Testament come together in an extremely interesting manner when the prophet Elijah, who according the account in the Old Testament (II Kings 2:11) "... went up to heaven in a chariot of fire." (Malachi 4:5)

The New Testament attaches great importance to the question regarding the rebirth of Elijah and has consequently, taken up the subject in several places:

In (Luke 1:17) "Elijah's spirit and power" is talked about, which in the body of John the Baptist would come before the Lord.

In the gospel according to Mark (Mark 9:11) the disciples ask: "Why do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" Jesus answers them that Elijah would indeed come first to restore all things (Mark 9:12)

In Matthew (17:12) Jesus is quoted as saying: "But I tell you that Elijah has already come..." "Then disciples understood that it was John the Baptist he was speaking to them about. (Matthew 17:13)"

In Matthew (11:14-15) Jesus is clear as crystal about the baptist's earlier identity. "And if you are willing to accept it, he is ELIJAH, the one who has come." He then adds so that there can be no doubt about it:"Whoever has ears ought to hear."

Can it be said more clearly?

Jesus has with all these words, once and for all established the truth of reincarnation.

"Whoever has ears out to hear!"

The teachings of reincarnation, although still rejected, are nonetheless an important part of Christian heritage, a cornerstone of original Christianity, and a basis of original picture of Christianity throughout the world- in a similar manner that the belief in reincarnation has always been in the oriental religions.

It's important to ascertain that the belief is repeated earthly lives is in no way in conflict with central Christian motives. Its more likely that the teaching of reincarnation strengthens the Christian message, making it more complete, more genuine and more credible.

Many people have wondered how it is possible that Jesus, Christianity's central figure, can still be denied and be so fragrantly misunderstood by his own followers, by his own churches regarding such an important and fundamental question concerning what happens to us when we die.

Its an enigma which remains unsolved."
 Quoting: Amilius


einfail
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
The purpose here is to not reincarnate into a better life but to stop reincarnation indefinitely. Once you achieve enlightenment, you won't need to reincarnate and live in the afterlife in endless bliss.
 Quoting: Amilius


Oops.

This is where there is a disagreement between "resurrection" and 'reincarnation'.

According to the doctrine of 'reincarnation', the world is essentially irredeemable; hence, the only 'redemption' is to stop the 'reincarnational process' altogether.

But, according to the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, it is this world which, ultimately, will be redeemed. That is, there is no escape from living future lives because, at some point, this world will be transformed into something completely different than it is right now.

This world was Created by the Creator to be inhabited, as stated in the Book of Isaiah, in which book is also the first reference to the revelation of the memories of previous lives (Chapter 26:19).

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I think both can be true. I believe in both. Hinduism says we have devolved and must achieve enlightenment and stop reincarnation to become one with God Brahman. I don't know if Buddhism teaches we have devolved but it does teach we are all enlightened just have to wake up. Both religions accept reincarnation and karma and both teach the future will be better for us.
 Quoting: Amilius


It is not logically possible to believe in both.

The Revelation of the Memory of Creation demonstrates that man can never be "one with God" because 'fallen' man has a dualistic consciousness of a "self" and a 'thinker'; and that duality can never be resolved into Unity.

To be human is to have all three dimensions of consciousness: 1) the non-dualistic dimension of consciousness prior to 'the Fall'; 2) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the "self";, and 3) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the 'thinker'.

Michael
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good post.5a
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
The purpose here is to not reincarnate into a better life but to stop reincarnation indefinitely. Once you achieve enlightenment, you won't need to reincarnate and live in the afterlife in endless bliss.
 Quoting: Amilius


Oops.

This is where there is a disagreement between "resurrection" and 'reincarnation'.

According to the doctrine of 'reincarnation', the world is essentially irredeemable; hence, the only 'redemption' is to stop the 'reincarnational process' altogether.

But, according to the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, it is this world which, ultimately, will be redeemed. That is, there is no escape from living future lives because, at some point, this world will be transformed into something completely different than it is right now.

This world was Created by the Creator to be inhabited, as stated in the Book of Isaiah, in which book is also the first reference to the revelation of the memories of previous lives (Chapter 26:19).

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I think both can be true. I believe in both. Hinduism says we have devolved and must achieve enlightenment and stop reincarnation to become one with God Brahman. I don't know if Buddhism teaches we have devolved but it does teach we are all enlightened just have to wake up. Both religions accept reincarnation and karma and both teach the future will be better for us.
 Quoting: Amilius


It is not logically possible to believe in both.

The Revelation of the Memory of Creation demonstrates that man can never be "one with God" because 'fallen' man has a dualistic consciousness of a "self" and a 'thinker'; and that duality can never be resolved into Unity.

To be human is to have all three dimensions of consciousness: 1) the non-dualistic dimension of consciousness prior to 'the Fall'; 2) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the "self";, and 3) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the 'thinker'.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


yes, but the three can become one through meditation and the chakras, no? or should i say the 7 become one..
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
Michael, do you have a relationship with Jesus Christ? Is not "born again" a spiritual birth and the resurrection the immortal bodies of the saints in Jesus Christ...the way we were meant to live before the fall of man in the garden of eden? Why do you despise Paul so much? Was it not Jesus who changed his name from Saul as he recognized Him as the messiah? Why do you mix bible theology with the doctrines of demons? Why do you think you know it all and have to control every conversation? What are you afraid of? Jesus conquered the grave and the curse of death could not bind Him.
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
Michael, do you have a relationship with Jesus Christ? Is not "born again" a spiritual birth and the resurrection the immortal bodies of the saints in Jesus Christ...the way we were meant to live before the fall of man in the garden of eden? Why do you despise Paul so much? Was it not Jesus who changed his name from Saul as he recognized Him as the messiah? Why do you mix bible theology with the doctrines of demons? Why do you think you know it all and have to control every conversation? What are you afraid of? Jesus conquered the grave and the curse of death could not bind Him.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30099619


These people have an agenda and are moved by familiar spirits.Just ignore it their day will come
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
The purpose here is to not reincarnate into a better life but to stop reincarnation indefinitely. Once you achieve enlightenment, you won't need to reincarnate and live in the afterlife in endless bliss.
 Quoting: Amilius


Oops.

This is where there is a disagreement between "resurrection" and 'reincarnation'.

According to the doctrine of 'reincarnation', the world is essentially irredeemable; hence, the only 'redemption' is to stop the 'reincarnational process' altogether.

But, according to the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, it is this world which, ultimately, will be redeemed. That is, there is no escape from living future lives because, at some point, this world will be transformed into something completely different than it is right now.

This world was Created by the Creator to be inhabited, as stated in the Book of Isaiah, in which book is also the first reference to the revelation of the memories of previous lives (Chapter 26:19).

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I think both can be true. I believe in both. Hinduism says we have devolved and must achieve enlightenment and stop reincarnation to become one with God Brahman. I don't know if Buddhism teaches we have devolved but it does teach we are all enlightened just have to wake up. Both religions accept reincarnation and karma and both teach the future will be better for us.
 Quoting: Amilius


It is not logically possible to believe in both.

The Revelation of the Memory of Creation demonstrates that man can never be "one with God" because 'fallen' man has a dualistic consciousness of a "self" and a 'thinker'; and that duality can never be resolved into Unity.

To be human is to have all three dimensions of consciousness: 1) the non-dualistic dimension of consciousness prior to 'the Fall'; 2) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the "self";, and 3) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the 'thinker'.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529

Your reasoning is sophmoric and tedious, Michael. You argue through layers of third-party "doctrines" instead of speaking plainly, declaring your affiliations and owning your own opinions. You display a coward's "logic," based on the methods of sleightof hand instead of intellectual honesty.

Is God infinite? Then how can anything exist that is not God? Such a thing would exist separately from God, and therefore be something that God is not, and that did not need God to exist. Therefore nothng exists apart from God.

If nothing exists apart from God, then everything is a part of God - including us. Which means we can't die, because we're made out of God, and God can't die. Thus, reincarnation, as we take bodies over and over again to purify ourselves by discerning our attachments to impermanent things, and learning to choose God instead. Thus we proceed to "wake up" to our Original Identity as God. There is no changingof the imperfect to the perfect, because there was never anything that was imperfect - there was only a dream, a deliberate misunderstanding, a deliberate forgetting, by God, in order to inhabit Himself as creation by His self as every living thing - including us.

And as for where this happens, look up at the sky tonight. There is more than one planet where earhtlike conditins exist, and where human-type beings live, able to receive the souls, the energy bodies, of God in His various states of awakened consciousness.

Your mind is small and constricted, Michael. Which is fine, in and of itself, for we are all restricted in one way or another until we finally realize and re-experience ourselves as God. But to spread your ignorance as fact is dangerous to your soul development, for it reinforces your own limited understandings, and leads others astray. And the karma for harming other's understanding, is - obviously - the loss of your own, possibly for many, many lifetimes.

Learn humility, Michael. And be careful - God is not mocked.
Amilius (OP)

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01/28/2013 08:19 PM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
...


Oops.

This is where there is a disagreement between "resurrection" and 'reincarnation'.

According to the doctrine of 'reincarnation', the world is essentially irredeemable; hence, the only 'redemption' is to stop the 'reincarnational process' altogether.

But, according to the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, it is this world which, ultimately, will be redeemed. That is, there is no escape from living future lives because, at some point, this world will be transformed into something completely different than it is right now.

This world was Created by the Creator to be inhabited, as stated in the Book of Isaiah, in which book is also the first reference to the revelation of the memories of previous lives (Chapter 26:19).

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I think both can be true. I believe in both. Hinduism says we have devolved and must achieve enlightenment and stop reincarnation to become one with God Brahman. I don't know if Buddhism teaches we have devolved but it does teach we are all enlightened just have to wake up. Both religions accept reincarnation and karma and both teach the future will be better for us.
 Quoting: Amilius


It is not logically possible to believe in both.

The Revelation of the Memory of Creation demonstrates that man can never be "one with God" because 'fallen' man has a dualistic consciousness of a "self" and a 'thinker'; and that duality can never be resolved into Unity.

To be human is to have all three dimensions of consciousness: 1) the non-dualistic dimension of consciousness prior to 'the Fall'; 2) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the "self";, and 3) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the 'thinker'.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529

Your reasoning is sophmoric and tedious, Michael. You argue through layers of third-party "doctrines" instead of speaking plainly, declaring your affiliations and owning your own opinions. You display a coward's "logic," based on the methods of sleightof hand instead of intellectual honesty.

Is God infinite? Then how can anything exist that is not God? Such a thing would exist separately from God, and therefore be something that God is not, and that did not need God to exist. Therefore nothng exists apart from God.

If nothing exists apart from God, then everything is a part of God - including us. Which means we can't die, because we're made out of God, and God can't die. Thus, reincarnation, as we take bodies over and over again to purify ourselves by discerning our attachments to impermanent things, and learning to choose God instead. Thus we proceed to "wake up" to our Original Identity as God. There is no changingof the imperfect to the perfect, because there was never anything that was imperfect - there was only a dream, a deliberate misunderstanding, a deliberate forgetting, by God, in order to inhabit Himself as creation by His self as every living thing - including us.

And as for where this happens, look up at the sky tonight. There is more than one planet where earhtlike conditins exist, and where human-type beings live, able to receive the souls, the energy bodies, of God in His various states of awakened consciousness.

Your mind is small and constricted, Michael. Which is fine, in and of itself, for we are all restricted in one way or another until we finally realize and re-experience ourselves as God. But to spread your ignorance as fact is dangerous to your soul development, for it reinforces your own limited understandings, and leads others astray. And the karma for harming other's understanding, is - obviously - the loss of your own, possibly for many, many lifetimes.

Learn humility, Michael. And be careful - God is not mocked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33028811


I think you got it!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32386967
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01/28/2013 08:32 PM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
...


Oops.

This is where there is a disagreement between "resurrection" and 'reincarnation'.

According to the doctrine of 'reincarnation', the world is essentially irredeemable; hence, the only 'redemption' is to stop the 'reincarnational process' altogether.

But, according to the Revelations of the monotheistic religions, it is this world which, ultimately, will be redeemed. That is, there is no escape from living future lives because, at some point, this world will be transformed into something completely different than it is right now.

This world was Created by the Creator to be inhabited, as stated in the Book of Isaiah, in which book is also the first reference to the revelation of the memories of previous lives (Chapter 26:19).

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I think both can be true. I believe in both. Hinduism says we have devolved and must achieve enlightenment and stop reincarnation to become one with God Brahman. I don't know if Buddhism teaches we have devolved but it does teach we are all enlightened just have to wake up. Both religions accept reincarnation and karma and both teach the future will be better for us.
 Quoting: Amilius


It is not logically possible to believe in both.

The Revelation of the Memory of Creation demonstrates that man can never be "one with God" because 'fallen' man has a dualistic consciousness of a "self" and a 'thinker'; and that duality can never be resolved into Unity.

To be human is to have all three dimensions of consciousness: 1) the non-dualistic dimension of consciousness prior to 'the Fall'; 2) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the "self";, and 3) the 'fallen', dualistic consciousness of the 'thinker'.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529

Your reasoning is sophmoric and tedious, Michael. You argue through layers of third-party "doctrines" instead of speaking plainly, declaring your affiliations and owning your own opinions. You display a coward's "logic," based on the methods of sleightof hand instead of intellectual honesty.

Is God infinite? Then how can anything exist that is not God? Such a thing would exist separately from God, and therefore be something that God is not, and that did not need God to exist. Therefore nothng exists apart from God.

If nothing exists apart from God, then everything is a part of God - including us. Which means we can't die, because we're made out of God, and God can't die. Thus, reincarnation, as we take bodies over and over again to purify ourselves by discerning our attachments to impermanent things, and learning to choose God instead. Thus we proceed to "wake up" to our Original Identity as God. There is no changingof the imperfect to the perfect, because there was never anything that was imperfect - there was only a dream, a deliberate misunderstanding, a deliberate forgetting, by God, in order to inhabit Himself as creation by His self as every living thing - including us.

And as for where this happens, look up at the sky tonight. There is more than one planet where earhtlike conditins exist, and where human-type beings live, able to receive the souls, the energy bodies, of God in His various states of awakened consciousness.

Your mind is small and constricted, Michael. Which is fine, in and of itself, for we are all restricted in one way or another until we finally realize and re-experience ourselves as God. But to spread your ignorance as fact is dangerous to your soul development, for it reinforces your own limited understandings, and leads others astray. And the karma for harming other's understanding, is - obviously - the loss of your own, possibly for many, many lifetimes.

Learn humility, Michael. And be careful - God is not mocked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33028811


wow, very well put.
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2013 11:45 PM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
bump
4Q529

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01/29/2013 05:10 AM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
yes, but the three can become one through meditation and the chakras, no? or should i say the 7 become one..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32386967


One can become three only at the level of theory or thought.
I am talking about the reality that human consciousness includes the dualistic consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker'.

Michael
4Q529

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01/29/2013 05:18 AM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
Your reasoning is sophmoric and tedious, Michael. You argue through layers of third-party "doctrines" instead of speaking plainly, declaring your affiliations and owning your own opinions. You display a coward's "logic," based on the methods of sleightof hand instead of intellectual honesty.

Is God infinite? Then how can anything exist that is not God? Such a thing would exist separately from God, and therefore be something that God is not, and that did not need God to exist. Therefore nothng exists apart from God.

If nothing exists apart from God, then everything is a part of God - including us. Which means we can't die, because we're made out of God, and God can't die. Thus, reincarnation, as we take bodies over and over again to purify ourselves by discerning our attachments to impermanent things, and learning to choose God instead. Thus we proceed to "wake up" to our Original Identity as God. There is no changingof the imperfect to the perfect, because there was never anything that was imperfect - there was only a dream, a deliberate misunderstanding, a deliberate forgetting, by God, in order to inhabit Himself as creation by His self as every living thing - including us.

And as for where this happens, look up at the sky tonight. There is more than one planet where earhtlike conditins exist, and where human-type beings live, able to receive the souls, the energy bodies, of God in His various states of awakened consciousness.

Your mind is small and constricted, Michael. Which is fine, in and of itself, for we are all restricted in one way or another until we finally realize and re-experience ourselves as God. But to spread your ignorance as fact is dangerous to your soul development, for it reinforces your own limited understandings, and leads others astray. And the karma for harming other's understanding, is - obviously - the loss of your own, possibly for many, many lifetimes.

Learn humility, Michael. And be careful - God is not mocked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33028811


Your conclusions and reasonings are the conclusions of a consciousness of the 'thinker'; that is, the 'fallen' dualistic consciousness that considers itself 'God' because it has 'thought' itself into existence. (See Chapter 14:13 of the Book of Isaiah)

This is referred to in Chapter 13:11 of the Revelation of John and Sura 27:82 of the Quran as the "beast of the earth".

The reason that you use the 'thinker' to speculate about such things is that you have no Memory of the Creation, nor of 'the Fall'. Had you received such a Memory, you would understand that the consciousness of the 'thinker' had not yet existed at the Moment of Creation; and, thus, could not comment on the Creation any more than a person who arrived at the scene of a murder could be a witness to the murdered if he arrived 2 hours after the murder had been committed.

Duhhh.

Michael
4Q529

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01/29/2013 05:24 AM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
Michael, do you have a relationship with Jesus Christ? Is not "born again" a spiritual birth and the resurrection the immortal bodies of the saints in Jesus Christ...the way we were meant to live before the fall of man in the garden of eden? Why do you despise Paul so much? Was it not Jesus who changed his name from Saul as he recognized Him as the messiah? Why do you mix bible theology with the doctrines of demons? Why do you think you know it all and have to control every conversation? What are you afraid of? Jesus conquered the grave and the curse of death could not bind Him.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30099619


It states very clearly in The Treatise On the Resurrection that there are three resurrections: the physical, the psychic and the spiritual; the physical being physical 'rebirth', the psychic being the revelation of the memories of previous lives and the spiritual being the Revelation of the Memory of Creation.

If you yourself do not have a direct, first-hand Memory of having been Created by God--rather than receiving that knowledge by hearsay--then you have NO Knowledge of the spiritual 'rebirth'.

You are merely speculating with the consciousness of the 'thinker'.

In any case, "immortal bodies" is pagan metaphysics. There is NO basis whatsoever for any "immortal bodies" in either the Torah or the Prophets, the Gospels or the Quran.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 01/29/2013 05:25 AM
niphtrique

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01/29/2013 05:28 AM

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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
Jesus was with God in the beginning (John 1:2) but there is no mentioning of Jesus in the Tanakh.

Adam is referred to as Son of God (Luke 3:38), Jesus as firstborn over all creation (Col. 1:15).

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what this means.
The usury free economy: [link to www.naturalmoney.org]
The universe is a virtual reality: [link to www.naturalmoney.org]
God is a woman and Jesus was Her husband: [link to www.naturalmoney.org]
4Q529

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01/29/2013 05:32 AM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
There is a much simpler argument than the one presented by the OP.

According to Deuteronomy 28, the God of the Torah, the God of the living, rewards and punishes people for good and for evil only in this world; not in any after-death metaphysical world.

Thus, the Christian doctrine of an after-death metaphysical existence of rewards and punishments is a direct, specific and flagrant denial and violation of Deuteronomy 28; and, in fact, an expression of a belief not in the God of the living, the God of the Torah; but, rather, the 'god of the dead' that exercises his 'power' only in the after-death world.

Thus, for evil people to die without having received the punishment for their evil, or for good people to die without being rewarded for their good, results in a logical problem: where do they then received those rewards and punishments?

In this world, but in future lives.

Thus, the Torah implies that the Doctrine of "resurrection"--that it, that "the dead are raised"--is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth', as specifically stated by Jesus in his reply to the Sadducees.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 01/29/2013 05:34 AM
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 05:35 AM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
Bad translations are the best explanation.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 06:00 AM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
GOD SAYS "7. Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, to the third and to the fourth generation."

NOW WHY WOULD GOD "visit the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children "

IF NOT FOR THE "TRANSMIGRATION OF SOULS"

GOD DOES NOT HOLD A GRUDGE ?

IT IS A BIBLICAL DOCTRINE MOSES LEARNED FROM GOD AT SINIA
PART OF THE ORAL TORAH

Many of the teaching that follow were give by Elijah the Prophet to the Holy Ar”i

Parsha Mishpotim begins “and these are the judgments that you shall set before them”.

R. Shimon informs us that the “judgments” referred to in the above verse referred to the punishments involved in one’s incarnation in this world. Everything is in measure and equality, to pay back to everyone in accordance with their sins. In general its better not to have to come down here, its better “upstairs”.


READ MORE ABOUT IT

[link to godssecret.wordpress.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 06:35 AM
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Re: Reincarnation in the Bible
Hebrews 9:27
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30099619


THIS^^^^^^ Op has taken the bible out of context.....

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