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Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33285656
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01/29/2013 08:55 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
About 12 years ago, the Marine Corps did a survey at Camp Pendleton on this subject. Believe me, many, if not most GI's would indeed shoot on Americans.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33285656


let's see how well that works when they
see the news broadcast that they just shot
their own father or brother.

propaganda leaflets work on US Troops
just as well as Iraqi troops ;)

especially when they includes pics
of their dead relatives.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33283358


I'm not advocating for any of this, I'm just using my objective critical thinking skills and experience to throw some light on this subject.
They will set up combat teams geographically - all soldiers from, say, South Dakota will be sent to fight in Georgia. Troops from Compton in L.A. will be going to Tennessee and so forth.
They will cut power, fuel and food supplies to any areas that resist. There won't be any newscasts because the FedGov has taken that over. I worked for nine years on active duty in military "Public Affairs" or as they more accurately say psy-op propaganda. You will only get the FedGov's take on things and it will be far from the truth.
They will simply gas your ass. incinerate entire towns that resist. Farms. Encampments. You just won't wake up one morning. WTF do TPTB care? Is the UN gonna send in blue helmeted Pakistani's to help the poor besieged Patriots? Look at Syria for a taste of what this could devolve into. If it comes to this, it is a zero-sum game and TPTB plan on winning.
You should be 100 percent certain and committed to what you are willing to fight for, 'cause no matter how you slice it, it isn't pretty.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 08:56 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
You are forgetting the foreign enemies who would flock to this country for a chance to kill an American and the fact that the American government would welcome them with open arms.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 08:58 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
You are forgetting the foreign enemies who would flock to this country for a chance to kill an American and the fact that the American government would welcome them with open arms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9107938

Good point. I don't trust those damned Canadians!
AC 5341

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01/29/2013 08:58 PM

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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
You are forgetting the foreign enemies who would flock to this country for a chance to kill an American and the fact that the American government would welcome them with open arms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9107938


And supply them with arms, food, lodging and advocate rape.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 08:59 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Plus, when you tell those 4.5 million "government employees" they will continue to get food, water and shelter while the rest of the country is starving to death, hell yes, those gov pukes would kill an American.

Do you really not think the elite have covered all bases at least twice?
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:02 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Remember ,, Russia got it's but kicked hard in afghanistan by the natives


the natives were mainly armed with AK47's and RPG
AC 5341

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01/29/2013 09:03 PM

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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Remember ,, Russia got it's but kicked hard in afghanistan by the natives


the natives were mainly armed with AK47's and RPG
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33271447


True, but could they have dropped a chem or bio weapon and taken out 3 million or so in one shot ?
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:04 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
I'm not advocating for any of this, I'm just using my objective critical thinking skills and experience to throw some light on this subject.
They will set up combat teams geographically - all soldiers from, say, South Dakota will be sent to fight in Georgia. Troops from Compton in L.A. will be going to Tennessee and so forth.
They will cut power, fuel and food supplies to any areas that resist. There won't be any newscasts because the FedGov has taken that over. I worked for nine years on active duty in military "Public Affairs" or as they more accurately say psy-op propaganda. You will only get the FedGov's take on things and it will be far from the truth.
They will simply gas your ass. incinerate entire towns that resist. Farms. Encampments. You just won't wake up one morning. WTF do TPTB care? Is the UN gonna send in blue helmeted Pakistani's to help the poor besieged Patriots? Look at Syria for a taste of what this could devolve into. If it comes to this, it is a zero-sum game and TPTB plan on winning.
You should be 100 percent certain and committed to what you are willing to fight for, 'cause no matter how you slice it, it isn't pretty.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33285656


Dear Corporal Linden

I am very sorry to inform you that your mother
and father were killed yesterday due to your unit's
attack on XXXXXX. That bomb shelter housed civilians.
I am also sorry to inform you that your wife Natalie
and your 3 month old son Nicholas was also killed
in the ensuing fire which ravaged the adjacent
structure. We have enclosed pics for your identification
processing.

with deep regret
Commander of Patriot Forces America

p.s.: with everything in your life stripped
from you, what would be the purpose
of fighting at that point ???
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:05 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"

Department of Homeland Security - 240,000 employees

Transportation Security Administration - 50,000 officers

U.S. Military Active personnel 1,460,000

U.S. Military Reserve personnel 1,458,500

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms - 5,100 Agents

Drug Enforcement Administration - 10,700 Agents

Central Intelligence Agency - 20,000 Agents *Estimated

Federal Bureau of Investigation - 36,000 Agents/Employee's

United States Marshals Service - 4,000 Marshals & Deputies

Police Forces Nationwide State/County.City - 800,000 Officer's

National Guard of the United States - 460,000 Soldiers

_______________________________________________________

Grand Total ------- 4, 540,300



Patriots ---- ?
 Quoting: biscuits and gravy

That is the population of Oregon. IE, it would be smear the queer on government.
s. d. butler

User ID: 974819
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01/29/2013 09:05 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
I remember reading a post on here that said only 3 percent of the population actively resisted the British. I hope more would stand up now.
 Quoting: Roobit


At least 3 % were active fighters,another 10 -15 % were active in support and another 10-15 passive support, tories about 20-30 %,everyone one else - fence sitters.
s. d. butler

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01/29/2013 09:08 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Remember ,, Russia got it's but kicked hard in afghanistan by the natives


the natives were mainly armed with AK47's and RPG
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33271447


True, but could they have dropped a chem or bio weapon and taken out 3 million or so in one shot ?
 Quoting: AC 5341


On your own people? That is about the dumbest thing possible.
s. d. butler

User ID: 974819
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01/29/2013 09:09 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Plus, when you tell those 4.5 million "government employees" they will continue to get food, water and shelter while the rest of the country is starving to death, hell yes, those gov pukes would kill an American.

Do you really not think the elite have covered all bases at least twice?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9107938


Yes, I really think that the so called "elite" hasn't "covered all bases" even once.
s. d. butler

User ID: 974819
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01/29/2013 09:11 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
You are forgetting the foreign enemies who would flock to this country for a chance to kill an American and the fact that the American government would welcome them with open arms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9107938


? Foreign enemies is what the US military is for.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33285656
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01/29/2013 09:13 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
This is an interesting conversation.
Again, TPTB have considered all scenarios. The officer corps is full of politicians - not many warriors left. The enlisted ranks are full of gang bangers and the working poor who joined for a J-O-B, not out of any sense of duty. The wild card is the Non-Coms - the Sergeants, Petty Officers and WO's that do the real leading in the field. Most are lifers, have families, and have probably been in for ten or more years. THEY would mutiny if their families were harmed. IMHO.
s. d. butler

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01/29/2013 09:15 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"

Department of Homeland Security - 240,000 employees

Transportation Security Administration - 50,000 officers

U.S. Military Active personnel 1,460,000

U.S. Military Reserve personnel 1,458,500

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms - 5,100 Agents

Drug Enforcement Administration - 10,700 Agents

Central Intelligence Agency - 20,000 Agents *Estimated

Federal Bureau of Investigation - 36,000 Agents/Employee's

United States Marshals Service - 4,000 Marshals & Deputies

Police Forces Nationwide State/County.City - 800,000 Officer's

National Guard of the United States - 460,000 Soldiers

_______________________________________________________

Grand Total ------- 4, 540,300



Patriots ---- ?
 Quoting: biscuits and gravy


Only about 10-15% of that total are anything close to being trigger pullers. The rest are bureaucrats.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33283358
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01/29/2013 09:16 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Again, TPTB have considered all scenarios.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33285656


I would dispute that claim.
As any general who has seen battle will tell you,
there is no way to account for every variable
on a battlefield. You can cover many bases,
but it's not possible to cover them all.

I think that quote came from General Patton
Redcat1

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01/29/2013 09:16 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Lots of private citizens have military style gear. Tanks, morters, flame throwers.

General Patton said - weapons do not win wars. Tactics win wars. The French Revolution was won by French Women with broom handles.
AC 5341

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01/29/2013 09:18 PM

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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Remember ,, Russia got it's but kicked hard in afghanistan by the natives


the natives were mainly armed with AK47's and RPG
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33271447


True, but could they have dropped a chem or bio weapon and taken out 3 million or so in one shot ?
 Quoting: AC 5341


On your own people? That is about the dumbest thing possible.
 Quoting: s. d. butler


My point was population density. Regardless of who the attacker would be on American soil.
In the Russian/Afghan example did they have most of their fighting population packed into large cities like we do here.
s. d. butler

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01/29/2013 09:18 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Would it be beneficial to consider weaponry instead of just "boots on the ground?" I was a combat medic in an armored battalion and developed great respect for heavy weapons with state of the art technology onboard. A squad of M-1A1 Abrams tanks vs. AKs and ARs ??? This isn't the 18th century when both sides had comparable arms. Most of your tough talking wanna-be militia neighbors will piss themselves. Then they'll turn in their guns and snitch on you.
Jes' sayin'...take care of your own shit and ignore everybody else.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33285656


You think this will be force on force? You think anyone is dumb enough to attack a tank with an AR?

rofl
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:20 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
You are forgetting the foreign enemies who would flock to this country for a chance to kill an American and the fact that the American government would welcome them with open arms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9107938


Who would these foreigner's rather direct their violence at an American civilan or the government they probably perceive as having wronged them already? When these people scream 'death to america" and crap like that they probably don't mean the checkout girl at kroger. I mean the ones already on the government payroll could probably be counted on to support the government but I wouldn't assume all enemies of our country would look to harming citizens.
s. d. butler

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01/29/2013 09:21 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Remember ,, Russia got it's but kicked hard in afghanistan by the natives


the natives were mainly armed with AK47's and RPG
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33271447


True, but could they have dropped a chem or bio weapon and taken out 3 million or so in one shot ?
 Quoting: AC 5341


On your own people? That is about the dumbest thing possible.
 Quoting: s. d. butler


My point was population density. Regardless of who the attacker would be on American soil.
In the Russian/Afghan example did they have most of their fighting population packed into large cities like we do here.
 Quoting: AC 5341


Of course governments can and have murdered hundreds of millions of people.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:22 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
You think this will be force on force? You think anyone is dumb enough to attack a tank with an AR?

 Quoting: s. d. butler


Patriot Veterans know every flaw
in every vehicle the military uses.

they also know every flaw in every
weapons system used against them.
s. d. butler

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01/29/2013 09:22 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Lots of private citizens have military style gear. Tanks, morters, flame throwers.

General Patton said - weapons do not win wars. Tactics win wars. The French Revolution was won by French Women with broom handles.
 Quoting: Redcat1


tactics wins battles. Strategy wins wars.
s. d. butler

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01/29/2013 09:23 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
You think this will be force on force? You think anyone is dumb enough to attack a tank with an AR?

 Quoting: s. d. butler


Patriot Veterans know every flaw
in every vehicle the military uses.

they also know every flaw in every
weapons system used against them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33283358


exactly
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:23 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
if 1% of the population retaliates you are looking at 3.1 million people. If 2% retaliates, you are looking at 6.2 million people.

You can also be sure that a large number, even if a statistical minority of the core government numbers will quit and or rebel against what they consider an assault on their way of life or families. I'd guess 5% of them are sure to do this, while the 95% will sort of follow orders, 10-15% liking the orders, and 10-20% neither following orders nor retaliating, just not responding in the way the government expects them to, like fence sitters. I also expect 1-15% of the government to kill itself through friendly fire and suicides, since currently, suicide even without friendly fire is one of the highest causes of death.

Factoring that in, you have perhaps 16-40% reduction in the total of government agents for various reasons. Now there are something like 40-150 million armed americans, and you can expect most of them to fold like lily livered cowards. But most is simply defined as any value higher than 20-75 million, which means you might still have a pool of people ranging from 19-74 million or more to draw from to get your 3.1 million closer to the 6.2 million. The 4.5 million government agents after being influenced by the above losses is going to resemble a figure closer to 2.7 million to 3.87 million.

So in reality, you have
3.1 to 19 million resistors vs
2.7 to 3.87 million storm troopers

Since the number of defectors is sufficiently placed to allow for access to things like tanks, missiles, helicopters, and drones, it really boils down to how much resistance the armed American populous wants to create.

I think any international Assistance the Storm Troopers receive would polarize more of the fence sitting gun owners and your 3.1 million might climb rapidly into the double digits as farmers and factory workers come out of the fields and cities to fight the "Chai-Neez", the "Ruskies" and the "New World Order" (UN Troops).
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:24 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Of course governments can and have murdered hundreds of millions of people.
 Quoting: s. d. butler


very true
but most were unarmed at the time
and had no means or experience of
resistance.

US Veterans have been fighting
wars since they were born and have
become experts of warfare.

this time, the outcome will be different ;)
Oscanator
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01/29/2013 09:25 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Question is how many on that list are also patriots?
s. d. butler

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01/29/2013 09:27 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
It would be settled before the money dried up. It would be quick.
 Quoting: Tanarus


not unless they went nuclear, biological
or chemical. Frankly, they just
do not have the manpower or resources
to do it quickly. Americans will not
be a pushover as they are counting on.
And once threatened, Patriots from
all races and religions will unite
despite their false flags and Psy-Ops
to divide them.

if the Patriots can last for a yr or more,
they will win the war.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33283358


All the freedom side has to do is not lose.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:28 PM
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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
My point was population density. Regardless of who the attacker would be on American soil.
In the Russian/Afghan example did they have most of their fighting population packed into large cities like we do here.
 Quoting: AC 5341


the cities are the bait :)

once they go in, then they have to defend
their flanks thus causing them to fight
on 2 fronts. Battle Tactics 101
biscuits and gravy (OP)

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01/29/2013 09:29 PM

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Re: Patriots v.s. Government --- "Comparison" - "By The Numbers"
Lots of private citizens have military style gear. Tanks, morters, flame throwers.

General Patton said - weapons do not win wars. Tactics win wars. The French Revolution was won by French Women with broom handles.
 Quoting: Redcat1


tactics wins battles. Strategy wins wars.
 Quoting: s. d. butler


bumpyoda
Winners Always Win
losers always lose