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Poll about Libertarians

 
Resister

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01/30/2013 03:28 PM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
The Liberterian principle of freedom from unconstitutional government actions makes them good guys.
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"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787
[link to line-in-the-sand.spam]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/30/2013 03:29 PM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
Some thread on GLP I'm just thinking "WTF????" Threads like these make me happy my bride showed me this site.

rockon
 Quoting: Dominus


:thumbsup:
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 03:35 PM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
Yes, ANYONE who stands for individual freedom and wants less government must be a total clueless jerkoff....NOT I voted GOOD GUYS....
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 03:36 PM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
We need to get out of the left-right paradigm!


:RL bird:
 Quoting: TTX8K82


THIS ^^^^^^
Dominus

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01/30/2013 03:37 PM
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...


would you mind expanding on that thought?
 Quoting: Oyster


Sure. I'm sure you have noticed the way the left has painted the right. They want to kill women and old people. They hate gays. They hate blacks. . . . you know . . . . that old chestnut.

My wife and I do not morally support birth control when it kills a fertilized egg; however, birth control is now free for the most part. Being against free birth control doesn't mean I hate women; it means I don't think legislation should passed to give someone who doesn't want to be responsible maximum freedom to have sex. That money to subsidize the birth control might better be spent being put back in to a paycheck and providing families with a better quality of life. In giving one person maximum freedom, it must be taken away from someone else. I believe when it comes time to make those decisions it is the is morality of nature's law and nature's God that must be the cornerstone of that decision.

So in essence, I might align with the libertarian party in my beliefs, but I also align with the Christian foundations our founding fathers had. Morality must be considered in making laws.
 Quoting: Dominus


our point is that those laws shouldnt even exist, whether they are for or against it.

abortion is a hard subject to nail down for any party because we have to decide whether it is murder or not.

but.....we would also say that religious beliefs shouldnt be in the equation.
 Quoting: Oyster


yeap religion which kind if any is a personal choice..you can not tell people how or what their faith should or should not be. we know core values. respect to your neighbor his property period
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33341633


Agreed, and that's what we find in the 1st amendment. The specific language is "the law of Nature and Nature's God." This language was first seen around the time of the Magna Carta as a legal term. It's application in the amendment is to define the moral foundation for the Bill of Rights which was a Christian morality, but the founding fathers had seen what happens when you impose your religion on others (the reason for the revolution) which is why the amendment states that we have a freedom OF religion. So what we find in that legal term and the amendment as a whole is that:

1. The laws are based on Christian morality.
2. These laws shall not infringe upon your right of religious conscience or practice regardless of your religious views.

Last Edited by Dominus on 01/30/2013 03:39 PM
The constitutions of most of our States and the United States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press. -Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Cartwright, June 5, 1824
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 03:46 PM
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...


Sure. I'm sure you have noticed the way the left has painted the right. They want to kill women and old people. They hate gays. They hate blacks. . . . you know . . . . that old chestnut.

My wife and I do not morally support birth control when it kills a fertilized egg; however, birth control is now free for the most part. Being against free birth control doesn't mean I hate women; it means I don't think legislation should passed to give someone who doesn't want to be responsible maximum freedom to have sex. That money to subsidize the birth control might better be spent being put back in to a paycheck and providing families with a better quality of life. In giving one person maximum freedom, it must be taken away from someone else. I believe when it comes time to make those decisions it is the is morality of nature's law and nature's God that must be the cornerstone of that decision.

So in essence, I might align with the libertarian party in my beliefs, but I also align with the Christian foundations our founding fathers had. Morality must be considered in making laws.
 Quoting: Dominus


our point is that those laws shouldnt even exist, whether they are for or against it.

abortion is a hard subject to nail down for any party because we have to decide whether it is murder or not.

but.....we would also say that religious beliefs shouldnt be in the equation.
 Quoting: Oyster


yeap religion which kind if any is a personal choice..you can not tell people how or what their faith should or should not be. we know core values. respect to your neighbor his property period
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33341633


Agreed, and that's what we find in the 1st amendment. The specific language is "the law of Nature and Nature's God." This language was first seen around the time of the Magna Carta as a legal term. It's application in the amendment is to define the moral foundation for the Bill of Rights which was a Christian morality, but the founding fathers had seen what happens when you impose your religion on others (the reason for the revolution) which is why the amendment states that we have a freedom OF religion. So what we find in that legal term and the amendment as a whole is that:

1. The laws are based on Christian morality.
2. These laws shall not infringe upon your right of religious conscience or practice regardless of your religious views.
 Quoting: Dominus


it also gives freedom from religion. i have met too many a religious folk who his veiws do not hold a candle to my own. it is a sub group as far as i see it. any religion i care not which is a choice....
Dominus

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01/30/2013 04:00 PM
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...


our point is that those laws shouldnt even exist, whether they are for or against it.

abortion is a hard subject to nail down for any party because we have to decide whether it is murder or not.

but.....we would also say that religious beliefs shouldnt be in the equation.
 Quoting: Oyster


yeap religion which kind if any is a personal choice..you can not tell people how or what their faith should or should not be. we know core values. respect to your neighbor his property period
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33341633


Agreed, and that's what we find in the 1st amendment. The specific language is "the law of Nature and Nature's God." This language was first seen around the time of the Magna Carta as a legal term. It's application in the amendment is to define the moral foundation for the Bill of Rights which was a Christian morality, but the founding fathers had seen what happens when you impose your religion on others (the reason for the revolution) which is why the amendment states that we have a freedom OF religion. So what we find in that legal term and the amendment as a whole is that:

1. The laws are based on Christian morality.
2. These laws shall not infringe upon your right of religious conscience or practice regardless of your religious views.
 Quoting: Dominus


it also gives freedom from religion. i have met too many a religious folk who his veiws do not hold a candle to my own. it is a sub group as far as i see it. any religion i care not which is a choice....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33341633



Yeah that's not in there. The one thing the founding fathers didn't see is an entire generation of people saying, "I believe nothing." My answer to that is to ask where your conviction to stand up for that comes from? Atheism is a religion. Self worship is a religion. If you believe in no higher power then you are believing something. If you believe you are your master then you are believing you are the higher power. Therefore, you exercise moral action based on those beliefs which are, in fact, your religion. The point is that you are making a morally conscious decision which is constitutionally protected. As long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights you're good to do as you wish. But nowhere in the founding documents will you find any right not to be offended that someone else religion exists. Face it. Some people have no social skills and can't take a hint. The will proselytize the crap out of you and not know why you're getting pissed. Exercise your right to walk away because they aren't infringing on your right to your religion.
The constitutions of most of our States and the United States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press. -Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Cartwright, June 5, 1824
SeekWisdom

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01/30/2013 04:08 PM

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I'm kinda tea party/libertarian.
"The lips of wisdom are closed, except to the ears of Understanding"

A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?
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Get over here!- Scorpion
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/30/2013 04:09 PM
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so 20 people either think we are bad guys or jerkoffs......speak up you 20!
ChipModerator
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01/30/2013 04:21 PM

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Re: Poll about Libertarians
Some, not all but SOME, and limitations are key words in this argument. Are you with me? That big bad federal government that you so vehemently want to destroy was developed because we "let the market decide" and "let man's free will be unfettered".

Businesses and individuals dumped batteries and used oil near rivers which poisoned children and killed off valuable natural resources, so states had to create laws that made those people or businesses pay fines if they were caught. Well one state said it was illegal and a neighboring state said it was okay, but they both drink from the same river. This is where the feds come into play to determine which state is right; it's called the commerce clause buddy. This is just ONE example of why the feds have more laws than just the constitution (which you don't understand).

This is why we had to make laws; to prevent these issues from happening in the future. Does that mean that bad things will not happen in the future? NO! But it does mean that we are aware of the situation and we will do our best to remedy it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 787724


I disagree with your premise. You're saying we as free people have chosen the status quo based on "letting the market decide". That's pure bullshit. These motherfuckers manipulate knowledge in the field so they can play the citizens like fucking flutes. There is nothing even closely related to "free will" in modern America. If the truth was freely available different decisions would have shaped everything in a much different way.

I have never seen a bill turn into a law that comes anywhere near a "remedy" to any problems that citizens face. Nope. Not once! They merely hand over more power to the government and strip people of their rights...bit by bit by bit...

Last Edited by Chip on 01/30/2013 04:24 PM
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~Arthur C. Clarke

Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. ~Mark Twain

He's a nut-bag! Just because the fucker's got a library card doesn't make him Yoda ~David Mills ~ Se7en!

every-citizen
l3ol3o
Omar's coming Yo!

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01/30/2013 04:30 PM

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The Libertarian party is the future. It's where real conservatives belong. The Libertarian party is the only party that wants small government across the board. The GOP has real problems with their big government social conservative wing.

Most young people (under 30) are libertarian whether they know it or not. Most young conservatives don't care much about abortion, gay marriage, and other social issues. They just want government out of their lives. Even young Liberals recognize that the government is stealing from us and want the government cut back.


If anyone can overthrow the establishment party it will be the Libertarians.
Ayatollah Khomeini:
“Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world…. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us? Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy? Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] verses and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/30/2013 04:33 PM
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The Libertarian party is the future. It's where real conservatives belong. The Libertarian party is the only party that wants small government across the board. The GOP has real problems with their big government social conservative wing.

Most young people (under 30) are libertarian whether they know it or not. Most young conservatives don't care much about abortion, gay marriage, and other social issues. They just want government out of their lives. Even young Liberals recognize that the government is stealing from us and want the government cut back.


If anyone can overthrow the establishment party it will be the Libertarians.
 Quoting: l3ol3o


:^this:
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 04:35 PM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
Watch any of Stossels videos....he puts the pieces together very well
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 04:35 PM
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Brand X - another leading "conspiracy" forum that is above too stupid for words, follows a policy of dumping ANY and ALL posts in support for the Libertarians and bans any determined supporters from its web site. All other posters, even those threatening violence can come back, but those in support of the Libertarians, are locked out permanently.

Brand X seems to have a hidden agenda of trying to shepherd Libertarians back into the Democrat-Republican fold.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Brand X - another leading "conspiracy" forum that is above too stupid for words, follows a policy of dumping ANY and ALL posts in support for the Libertarians and bans any determined supporters from its web site. All other posters, even those threatening violence can come back, but those in support of the Libertarians, are locked out permanently.

Brand X seems to have a hidden agenda of trying to shepherd Libertarians back into the Democrat-Republican fold.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33130922


angryface
s. d. butler

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Re: Poll about Libertarians
yeap religion which kind if any is a personal choice..you can not tell people how or what their faith should or should not be. we know core values. respect to your neighbor his property period
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33341633


This is were I clash with religionists who worship the State. They do not acknowledge my neighbor or his property, therefore, one must deal with the State as one deals with a rabid dog, a meth head, or a toddler in the throws of a tantrum.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Following the non aggression principle and minding your own business are my principles.
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 06:35 PM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
You dont hear too much about peoples attitude for or against Libertarians other then stuff directed at Ron Paul.

so vote and also share your thoughts.


fyi, i am a libertarian.
 Quoting: Oyster


Why is Ron Paul considered a libertarian even though his supporting platform (the conservative party) is anything but libertarian (even the fruitcakes from the "teaparty" are even less libertarian on a lot of issues then even the democratic party)?
Debauchery

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01/30/2013 06:38 PM

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I've got no issue with the libertarians.
And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.
Debauchery

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01/30/2013 06:47 PM

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I've got no issue with the libertarians.
 Quoting: Debauchery


Hey kiddo!
hf
hugs
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


groucho

I had a feeling when I saw your posts..I sensed greatness and here you are. clappa

hugs
And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 07:27 PM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
this thread is

:fullofwin:
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 08:13 PM
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Libertarian philosophy sounds okay. It's when I hear how it is practiced on GLP that it makes me wonder if it is an ideology for jerk offs...
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 09:51 PM
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Libertarians have some good ideas, but they lose me when the talk social issues.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


But they'll never force you adopt their views on social issues.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


That's so true...
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner


Not true. I hear alot of hate and threats by libertarians directed at people they dont agree on social issues.
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 10:04 PM
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That being said, since the implementation of an income tax we've been completely fucked and have been going down the wrong road ever since. I don't know if there's a way to fix things at this point without taking everyone and everything back to zero to start over.
 Quoting: Dominus


This is why I hang out GLP.
More rational individuals are buried amidst the heap of crazies than anywhere else.

cheers
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


That may be the first time I've ever been accused of being rational!

And damnit! I'm out of thumbs for the day. I'll get you next time. I have never heard of Anarcho-Capitalism before. Thanks for the education.
 Quoting: Dominus


before you congratulate yourself, my head's still spinning from this typically weird and irrational (libertarian) statement of yours:

I still I don't think legislation should passed to give someone who doesn't want to be responsible maximum freedom to have sex.
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 10:36 PM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
Your opinion is worthless.

That is a fact.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


That is what I observe with many libertarians.

They think that other opinions are worthless.

Many libertarians are dogmatic like communists.

Their ideology does not work, just like Communism does not work.

Humans are social animals and need a group to survive.

A group needs rules. Those rules must be enforced.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Ron Paul is a nice guy, though. I like him.
 Quoting: niphtrique



Here is where you are wrong. In America there are lots of different groups with lots of different rules. Often times those groups conflict with each other because they can't agree. A Libertarian allows for these groups to co exist in a civil fashion where we live and let live without trying to force our views on each other.
wishiwas

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01/30/2013 11:03 PM

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Re: Poll about Libertarians
Libertarians have some good ideas, but they lose me when the talk social issues.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


But they'll never force you adopt their views on social issues.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


That's so true...
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner


Not true. I hear alot of hate and threats by libertarians directed at people they dont agree on social issues.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202




Hate and threats. That's all you got?

Those are words. They're allowed to be used in our country. What is not allowed is the follow through. You know, the lynchings, the shootings, the general fuckedupness that comes with violence.

You can say, "Your idea sucks ass" and still have a beer with someone. Hell, I have beers with the neighbor all the time, and that neighbor knows I hate their job(IRS) and want to make them unemployed. They understand the why, but they disagree with it. And I can appreciate that. I just don't agree that they're right.

I want property rights enforced. I want my civil rights enforced. And I want the feds off my back completely. I should not have some asshat on high telling my town's school system what they'll be teaching this year. I shouldn't have some asshat on high telling me that I am too dangerous to own a firearm. I shouldn't have some asshat on high spending MY money without even asking me where I want it to go.

Libertarians. We want to take over the world.....and leave you the fuck alone. Imagine THAT.
s. d. butler

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01/31/2013 12:01 AM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
yeap religion which kind if any is a personal choice..you can not tell people how or what their faith should or should not be. we know core values. respect to your neighbor his property period
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33341633


This is were I clash with religionists who worship the State. They do not acknowledge my neighbor or his property, therefore, one must deal with the State as one deals with a rabid dog, a meth head, or a toddler in the throws of a tantrum.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Following the non aggression principle and minding your own business are my principles.
 Quoting: s. d. butler


My convictions run a bit deeper.

It is always my option to smash a slave pen and free the prisoners.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


if you can.I have found slaves like being slaves.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/31/2013 08:41 AM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
Libertarians have some good ideas, but they lose me when the talk social issues.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


But they'll never force you adopt their views on social issues.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


That's so true...
 Quoting: AlcoholicRunner


Not true. I hear alot of hate and threats by libertarians directed at people they dont agree on social issues.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


give me 3 examples.
Dominus

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01/31/2013 12:41 PM
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Re: Poll about Libertarians
That being said, since the implementation of an income tax we've been completely fucked and have been going down the wrong road ever since. I don't know if there's a way to fix things at this point without taking everyone and everything back to zero to start over.
 Quoting: Dominus


This is why I hang out GLP.
More rational individuals are buried amidst the heap of crazies than anywhere else.

cheers
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


That may be the first time I've ever been accused of being rational!

And damnit! I'm out of thumbs for the day. I'll get you next time. I have never heard of Anarcho-Capitalism before. Thanks for the education.
 Quoting: Dominus


before you congratulate yourself, my head's still spinning from this typically weird and irrational (libertarian) statement of yours:

I still I don't think legislation should passed to give someone who doesn't want to be responsible maximum freedom to have sex.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was being monitored by someone who is either a grammar nazi or can't comprehend english. I guess I can't help you. PROCEED WITH THE LETTUCE WASHING!!!!

whatever
The constitutions of most of our States and the United States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press. -Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Cartwright, June 5, 1824

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