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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU

 
simultaneous_final
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02/02/2013 07:58 PM
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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Let's get right to it.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".

How can I say all this with certainty?

BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.

No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.

Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

SO--is there a GOD?

My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.

That's why I believe in God.

But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.

So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
fuckoff2
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:00 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Thread: Our origins are WAY beyond our current understanding
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 08:02 PM
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clappa

Right on, man!
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simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 08:07 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
The question of God vs No God is a CLOSED CASE.

It can't be known.

CASE FUCKING CLOSED.

Quit arguing. No matter your argument, it all comes down to SUBJECTIVE PERCEPTION which is demonstrably UNRELIABLE.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
christian
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02/02/2013 08:14 PM

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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
The question of God vs No God is a CLOSED CASE.

It can't be known.

CASE FUCKING CLOSED.

Quit arguing. No matter your argument, it all comes down to SUBJECTIVE PERCEPTION which is demonstrably UNRELIABLE.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


Then GO serve MAN....Slave Duty.
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:16 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
The question of God vs No God is a CLOSED CASE.

It can't be known.

CASE FUCKING CLOSED.

Quit arguing. No matter your argument, it all comes down to SUBJECTIVE PERCEPTION which is demonstrably UNRELIABLE.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


Then GO serve MAN....Slave Duty.
 Quoting: christian


:empbutthurt:
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:18 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Humanism or atheism is a wonderful philosophy of life as long as you are big, strong, and between the ages of eighteen and thirty-five. ... G.K. Chesterton
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:23 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
One day an atheist decided to take a short cut in the woods going home. It was a very
pretty day; birds were singing and flying, the brook was burbling, and wild flowers were
everywhere. Just then he saw the bushes move. It was a bear. He ran as fast as he could and
faster still. Then he tripped and fell on a log. By then the bear was right over him about
to strike. The atheist yelled out"Oh my God." Just then the birds froze, suspended in mid-
air, the brook stopped burbling, and it got quiet. Then God showed up and said "Tell me,
why should I save you? You teach people to not believe in Me." Then the atheist yelled out
"well, at least make the bear a christian." Then God said "Oh, all right." Then the birds
were flying again and the brook was burbling. The bear was about to strike then stopped,
stood up on his hinds, bowed his head and said "Lord, I thank Thee for this food I'm about
to eat."
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:24 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Let's get right to it.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".

How can I say all this with certainty?

BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.

No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.

Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

SO--is there a GOD?

My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.

That's why I believe in God.

But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.

So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
fuckoff2
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final

you are a fool.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:25 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
One day an atheist decided to take a short cut in the woods going home. It was a very
pretty day; birds were singing and flying, the brook was burbling, and wild flowers were
everywhere. Just then he saw the bushes move. It was a bear. He ran as fast as he could and
faster still. Then he tripped and fell on a log. By then the bear was right over him about
to strike. The atheist yelled out"Oh my God." Just then the birds froze, suspended in mid-
air, the brook stopped burbling, and it got quiet. Then God showed up and said "Tell me,
why should I save you? You teach people to not believe in Me." Then the atheist yelled out
"well, at least make the bear a christian." Then God said "Oh, all right." Then the birds
were flying again and the brook was burbling. The bear was about to strike then stopped,
stood up on his hinds, bowed his head and said "Lord, I thank Thee for this food I'm about
to eat."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23554071


Lame.
wise ass
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02/02/2013 08:27 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
I am a firm believer in the bible..........it is the greatest work of fiction ever written
Manu-Koelbren

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02/02/2013 08:30 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
The problem is not with man's assumption that there must have been a creator to all there is, the problem is when man wants to attribute anthropomorphic characteristics to this creator to suit his own desires without any evidence whatsoever to back such outlandish claims.

Btw great threads lately OP, keep em coming wink
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 08:39 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Let's get right to it.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".

How can I say all this with certainty?

BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.

No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.

Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

SO--is there a GOD?

My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.

That's why I believe in God.

But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.

So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
fuckoff2
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final

you are a fool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13813766


A "fool" is someone who knows he knows nothing.

So YES. I am a fool.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 08:40 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
The problem is not with man's assumption that there must have been a creator to all there is, the problem is when man wants to attribute anthropomorphic characteristics to this creator to suit his own desires without any evidence whatsoever to back such outlandish claims.

Btw great threads lately OP, keep em coming wink
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


Thanks, man! Rock on with your bad self!
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
hillbilly

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02/02/2013 08:44 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Experience IS the evidence. The air we breathe is mostly nitrogen. Breathing pure nitrogen will kill you, but you can't see,smell, or prove it. You were blessed with a second chance at this life. I doubt anything will convince you otherwise, 'proof' or not. Agnostics share your 'new' perspective, but sorry, we will not STFU.
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 08:50 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Experience IS the evidence. The air we breathe is mostly nitrogen. Breathing pure nitrogen will kill you, but you can't see,smell, or prove it. You were blessed with a second chance at this life. I doubt anything will convince you otherwise, 'proof' or not. Agnostics share your 'new' perspective, but sorry, we will not STFU.
 Quoting: hillbilly


That's funny because last night I experienced that I was a butterfly with all the memories thereof. I guess that's proof that I'm a "werebutterfly". Who knew?
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Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:50 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Once again you people have no faith. No faith means you are not in God's grace. Faith without works is dead like a body without a spirit.

Here is my work. Look around you. Is it not apparent that this Earth age is ending? How much more proof do you need than that? It is written in a book today called the Holy Bible, once a collection of scrolls. All these tomes witness to each other on these very things taking place today.

What about the fact that numbers have meaning in the bible and consistently mean the same thing across all scripture, regions, languages, cultures, and centuries? This is proof of a divine influence.

What about the figures of speech, patterns in language, that also span across all scripture, regions, languages, cultures, and centuries? More proof of divine influence.

What about the FACT that Jesus Christ lived on earth for approximately 33 years and IS GOD in the flesh? Extra-biblical accounts are recorded by historians of that time. He preformed all the miracles accounted for in the Holy Scriptures and it was documented.

What about all biblical archaeology? Is that not scientific proof of the Holy Scriptures? What more?

So any that do not know the Son, do not know the Father. And HE does not and will not know you either. Any WICKED man that says God does not exist is wholly IGNORANT, and lacks knowledge and is accounted as an antichrist. We were warned of these types.

To try and discredit something, you must first know everything about it. They surely have not read anything nor do they know anything.

In the end, it does not matter. GOD IS IN CONTROL!!! This age is ending now. Get your ways straight and live in His Word. It is your choice. But regardless of what you choose, it does not affect any true Christ-man or Christ-woman because we are righteous and have the VICTORY through Christ Jesus in the end. All that persecuted us will be made subject unto us in the time to come. And I personally will make it a point to be a very, very, very strict teacher and ruler.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:52 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Once again you people have no faith. No faith means you are not in God's grace. Faith without works is dead like a body without a spirit.

Here is my work. Look around you. Is it not apparent that this Earth age is ending? How much more proof do you need than that? It is written in a book today called the Holy Bible, once a collection of scrolls. All these tomes witness to each other on these very things taking place today.

What about the fact that numbers have meaning in the bible and consistently mean the same thing across all scripture, regions, languages, cultures, and centuries? This is proof of a divine influence.

What about the figures of speech, patterns in language, that also span across all scripture, regions, languages, cultures, and centuries? More proof of divine influence.

What about the FACT that Jesus Christ lived on earth for approximately 33 years and IS GOD in the flesh? Extra-biblical accounts are recorded by historians of that time. He preformed all the miracles accounted for in the Holy Scriptures and it was documented.

What about all biblical archaeology? Is that not scientific proof of the Holy Scriptures? What more?

So any that do not know the Son, do not know the Father. And HE does not and will not know you either. Any WICKED man that says God does not exist is wholly IGNORANT, and lacks knowledge and is accounted as an antichrist. We were warned of these types.

To try and discredit something, you must first know everything about it. They surely have not read anything nor do they know anything.

In the end, it does not matter. GOD IS IN CONTROL!!! This age is ending now. Get your ways straight and live in His Word. It is your choice. But regardless of what you choose, it does not affect any true Christ-man or Christ-woman because we are righteous and have the VICTORY through Christ Jesus in the end. All that persecuted us will be made subject unto us in the time to come. And I personally will make it a point to be a very, very, very strict teacher and ruler.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18225135


to sum that up:

BLAH BLAH BLAH
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:53 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
stfu

So, this should be the last post!
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:54 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
correct know one knows jack shit about shit. we are just guessing with our little monkey brains and believing in what makes us feel good.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:55 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
DEMONSTRABLY!
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 08:55 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Once again you people have no faith. No faith means you are not in God's grace. Faith without works is dead like a body without a spirit.

Here is my work. Look around you. Is it not apparent that this Earth age is ending? How much more proof do you need than that? It is written in a book today called the Holy Bible, once a collection of scrolls. All these tomes witness to each other on these very things taking place today.

What about the fact that numbers have meaning in the bible and consistently mean the same thing across all scripture, regions, languages, cultures, and centuries? This is proof of a divine influence.

What about the figures of speech, patterns in language, that also span across all scripture, regions, languages, cultures, and centuries? More proof of divine influence.

What about the FACT that Jesus Christ lived on earth for approximately 33 years and IS GOD in the flesh? Extra-biblical accounts are recorded by historians of that time. He preformed all the miracles accounted for in the Holy Scriptures and it was documented.

What about all biblical archaeology? Is that not scientific proof of the Holy Scriptures? What more?

So any that do not know the Son, do not know the Father. And HE does not and will not know you either. Any WICKED man that says God does not exist is wholly IGNORANT, and lacks knowledge and is accounted as an antichrist. We were warned of these types.

To try and discredit something, you must first know everything about it. They surely have not read anything nor do they know anything.

In the end, it does not matter. GOD IS IN CONTROL!!! This age is ending now. Get your ways straight and live in His Word. It is your choice. But regardless of what you choose, it does not affect any true Christ-man or Christ-woman because we are righteous and have the VICTORY through Christ Jesus in the end. All that persecuted us will be made subject unto us in the time to come. And I personally will make it a point to be a very, very, very strict teacher and ruler.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18225135


What you don't understand (probably because you didn't even read the original post) is that I DO have faith. I believe in God. I had an NDE and met God. It was as real to me as anything else I've experienced.

But I can't PROVE it to anyone. It would be futile to try. So even though I trust my perception, I would be asking A LOT to expect others to trust something that is purely subjective.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:55 PM
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people who i cant stand like s. hawking and others like him on this site, are people who talk in absolutes like they know everything and are 100 percent correct. you dont know shit about anything, like ive said before you still wipe your ass with wads of paper. what could you know?
Raymantheheretic

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02/02/2013 08:58 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final

A true atheist would state there is no God. One who merely lacks belief is generally defined as agnostic. Since you don't even grasp the basic terms involved you might consider just butting out since those who'd argue either side wouldn't listen to you anyway.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 08:59 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Atheists and Christians usually don't argue specifically if there is a God or there is not a God on this newsgroup.

We usually argue if Jesus Christ existed at all and if Jesus Christ is God.

We argue if the current cannoized Christian Bible is with error or completely without error.

Since the Bible is full of contradictions, we know for a fact that it is with error. Did Judas hang himself or did he fall to his death? A Christian appologist might say that he hanged and when he was cut down, his guts burst out. People who believe that the Bible is without error constantly make these kind of contrived appologies. One appology might seem o.k., but when Christians make thousands of appologies trying to say that the Bible is without error and says the same thing, then they are lying to themselves and to us.

Now God is a subjective thing. I can worship breasts and bottoms and money. God to many people is a person that has never lied and a person who hates slavery. Well we know from the Bible that Jesus lied. John 7:8-10. A Christian appologist would say he just changed his mind. "but as it were in secret" is pretty deceptive for God. Jesus also said beat slaves even though the slaves didn't know they were doing wrong. Luke 12:47-48. A Christian appologist would say that it is just a parable, a story. But a story teaches, and Jesus was teaching slavery. If he was God, the kind of God I would worship, he would say, free your slaves.

Jesus Christ was never even mentioned together before 325 a.d. Jesus wasn't even a person's name before then. In fact, we do know who wrote several parts of the Bible because we can study early versions of it and see how it changed. We can learn a lot of things by what was mentioned early on and what wasn't.

For example, the entire New Testament and Christianity is based on Revelation, a book on Astrology by Apollonius, which was never meant to be publically read. We know that Lucius Plutarchus who was a very famous Roman and royal historian, was the original Luke of the Bible because both men have the same personal history, born in the same town, died in the same place. We know that the travels of Paul (Apollonius) were really the conquest paths of Titus. And we know that the religion of Mythras later was turned into the religion of Christianity.
Anonymous Coward
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Thread: TIME is a concept, not a thing. The fourth dimension is motion, not time. Time is another tool for deception.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 09:02 PM
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If you "met God", tell us, what does "God" look like?

Did "God" look like what "YOU THOUGHT"?
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 09:03 PM
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A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final

A true atheist would state there is no God. One who merely lacks belief is generally defined as agnostic. Since you don't even grasp the basic terms involved you might consider just butting out since those who'd argue either side wouldn't listen to you anyway.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


An atheist LACKS BELIEF in a god or gods.

An atheist needn't express a belief that "there IS NO god".

Take, for example, someone raised without a concept of gods. They are an atheist because they don't profess a belief in god.

Strictly speaking, EVERYONE is an "agnostic". From the Jesus freaks to the rabid "positive atheists".
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LSDreamer

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02/02/2013 09:05 PM
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> Complains about people arguing about god.

> Makes an argument for god.



Everyone who enters the god debate knows that there is no final answer, thus making it the argument that never goes stale. It is one of the oldest arguments and one that will never go away.

I think you will also find that most atheists have no problem with someones individual belief in god, just what that person does with said belief.
Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.
~ Christopher Hitchens.
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 09:10 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
If you "met God", tell us, what does "God" look like?

Did "God" look like what "YOU THOUGHT"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 252372


God (who introduced himself as "your Father") was an immense light. The closer I got to the light, the more it penetrated me and the more I knew what he knew.

Note that I say "he" because of his introduction but it wouldn't surprise me if he was "the Mother" to some people. I don't know.

I asked "which God are you?" and he answered by showing me a long timeline of all different religions from the beginning of civilization (it looked like a big long brushstroke that showed all time periods at once) and said "all of them".
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hillbilly

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02/02/2013 09:11 PM
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...GOD IS IN CONTROL!!! This age is ending now. Get your ways straight and live in His Word. It is your choice.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18225135


I do not choose to impose any human limitations, such as gender, or emotions, such as HATE, to the Creator. I choose liberty and justice for ALL. The choice IS mine, no control required. Good thread. Peaces.

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