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Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 09:53 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Guess this guy's the closer..
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 09:58 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
> Complains about people arguing about god.

> Makes an argument for god.



Everyone who enters the god debate knows that there is no final answer, thus making it the argument that never goes stale. It is one of the oldest arguments and one that will never go away.

I think you will also find that most atheists have no problem with someones individual belief in god, just what that person does with said belief.
 Quoting: LSDreamer


I used my own experiential data as a falsifiable example.

I certainly am NOT arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of a god or gods.

If I'm mistaken, then explain how.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


First things first, stop saying you used experimental data, you didn't. Experimental data is a scientific process using measurements, provable test method etc.

You joined the argument when you said I believe in god because of X, if you thought no one was going to challenge you on that position, why make the thread? If you don't want to have the argument, why state it? I believe that near death experiences are shown by science to be from the release if chemicals in your brain, or the brains reaction to a sudden onset of extreme stress in the case of near miss car accidents etc.

I already explained that everyone who enters the debate knows that there is no end to it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be debated.
 Quoting: LSDreamer


I believe that my experience was as genuine as any other experience that I've had in normal waking reality due to the similarities in sensory perception making my experience indistinguishable from normal waking experiences.

I mentioned the experience as a FALSIFIABLE EXAMPLE of what someone might call "proof".

Also, "experiential data" in its strictest sense is data (in my case sensory data) that is subjectively experienced.

The only reason for which it can be said that the god/no god debate "should" be had is that it can be demonstrated that NO CONCLUSION CAN BE REACHED.

Last Edited by simultaneous_final on 02/02/2013 10:00 PM
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
hillbilly

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02/02/2013 10:03 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
OP, I too had a reboot almost 14 yrs. ago, due to a bad fever. It scrambled my muscle memory, sensory memories, etc.
I couldn't play my guitar. I got back to work at what seemed like someone else's job, a position I built from scratch, and nobody could help.

Seems like the Eighties (thank God;) got buried the deepest. Music and smells trigger new old memories, but often they FEEL like someone else's life at first.

I proudly use the term Born Again. In the last year a certain young lady got to me, my first CRUSH in THIS life. That has been difficult to process. 13 days ago my dad passed, and digging up old photos has been an adventure.

I don't remember many specifics from the week I was offline, except that knowing a storm was coming (Y2K?), and my parents would need me. That's my NDE testimony. Sorry to hijack.
Manu-Koelbren

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02/02/2013 10:06 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
> Complains about people arguing about god.

> Makes an argument for god.



Everyone who enters the god debate knows that there is no final answer, thus making it the argument that never goes stale. It is one of the oldest arguments and one that will never go away.

I think you will also find that most atheists have no problem with someones individual belief in god, just what that person does with said belief.
 Quoting: LSDreamer


I used my own experiential data as a falsifiable example.

I certainly am NOT arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of a god or gods.

If I'm mistaken, then explain how.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


First things first, stop saying you used experimental data, you didn't. Experimental data is a scientific process using measurements, provable test method etc.

You joined the argument when you said I believe in god because of X, if you thought no one was going to challenge you on that position, why make the thread? If you don't want to have the argument, why state it? I believe that near death experiences are shown by science to be from the release if chemicals in your brain, or the brains reaction to a sudden onset of extreme stress in the case of near miss car accidents etc.

I already explained that everyone who enters the debate knows that there is no end to it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be debated.
 Quoting: LSDreamer


I believe that my experience was as genuine as any other experience that I've had in normal waking reality due to the similarities in sensory perception making my experience indistinguishable from normal waking experiences.

I mentioned the experience as a FALSIFIABLE EXAMPLE of what someone might call "proof".

Also, "experiential data" in its strictest sense is data (in my case sensory data) that is subjectively experienced.

The only reason for which it can be said that the god/no god debate "should" be had is that it can be demonstrated that NO CONCLUSION CAN BE REACHED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


He mistook the work experiential for experimental.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 10:07 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
partial quote "THIS AGE is ending now"!

True, so true! Then the AGE of the BAPTIZER begins!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 252372


With every passing nanosecond an "age" ends. What the hell is the point?
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


An "age" is an astronomical age, approximately 2160 solar years.
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 10:09 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
OP, I too had a reboot almost 14 yrs. ago, due to a bad fever. It scrambled my muscle memory, sensory memories, etc.
I couldn't play my guitar. I got back to work at what seemed like someone else's job, a position I built from scratch, and nobody could help.

Seems like the Eighties (thank God;) got buried the deepest. Music and smells trigger new old memories, but often they FEEL like someone else's life at first.

I proudly use the term Born Again. In the last year a certain young lady got to me, my first CRUSH in THIS life. That has been difficult to process. 13 days ago my dad passed, and digging up old photos has been an adventure.

I don't remember many specifics from the week I was offline, except that knowing a storm was coming (Y2K?), and my parents would need me. That's my NDE testimony. Sorry to hijack.
 Quoting: hillbilly


It's all good. Your case of memory loss only demonstrates what I'm saying. Our perceptions are subjective and dynamic.

Once, when I was a little kid, I was sick and my mother woke me up in the middle of the night to give me my dose of medicine. She told me about it in the morning but I "knew" she had to be lying because I had no memory of it whatsoever

That was my first conscious initiation into subjectivity-awareness.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 10:11 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
...


I used my own experiential data as a falsifiable example.

I certainly am NOT arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of a god or gods.

If I'm mistaken, then explain how.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


First things first, stop saying you used experimental data, you didn't. Experimental data is a scientific process using measurements, provable test method etc.

You joined the argument when you said I believe in god because of X, if you thought no one was going to challenge you on that position, why make the thread? If you don't want to have the argument, why state it? I believe that near death experiences are shown by science to be from the release if chemicals in your brain, or the brains reaction to a sudden onset of extreme stress in the case of near miss car accidents etc.

I already explained that everyone who enters the debate knows that there is no end to it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be debated.
 Quoting: LSDreamer


I believe that my experience was as genuine as any other experience that I've had in normal waking reality due to the similarities in sensory perception making my experience indistinguishable from normal waking experiences.

I mentioned the experience as a FALSIFIABLE EXAMPLE of what someone might call "proof".

Also, "experiential data" in its strictest sense is data (in my case sensory data) that is subjectively experienced.

The only reason for which it can be said that the god/no god debate "should" be had is that it can be demonstrated that NO CONCLUSION CAN BE REACHED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


He mistook the work experiential for experimental.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


I see. You'd think he'd read what he's arguing against. Although, I'm not sure he IS arguing a point. If so, then WHAT?
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 10:14 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Here is your "scientific proof" of life after death.
Recalling what doctors are doing to your body after death is enough proof for me.

No religion BS here though.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 340209


That is not "proof". You can't even prove that you're awake right now.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


Please watch the video before making such statements.

These are doctors reporting on patients whom made accurate statements of what was going on while they were "dead".

It might help you better understand your NDE as well.
peace
LSDreamer

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02/02/2013 10:20 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
> Complains about people arguing about god.

> Makes an argument for god.



Everyone who enters the god debate knows that there is no final answer, thus making it the argument that never goes stale. It is one of the oldest arguments and one that will never go away.

I think you will also find that most atheists have no problem with someones individual belief in god, just what that person does with said belief.
 Quoting: LSDreamer


I used my own experiential data as a falsifiable example.

I certainly am NOT arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of a god or gods.

If I'm mistaken, then explain how.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


First things first, stop saying you used experimental data, you didn't. Experimental data is a scientific process using measurements, provable test method etc.

You joined the argument when you said I believe in god because of X, if you thought no one was going to challenge you on that position, why make the thread? If you don't want to have the argument, why state it? I believe that near death experiences are shown by science to be from the release if chemicals in your brain, or the brains reaction to a sudden onset of extreme stress in the case of near miss car accidents etc.

I already explained that everyone who enters the debate knows that there is no end to it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be debated.
 Quoting: LSDreamer


I believe that my experience was as genuine as any other experience that I've had in normal waking reality due to the similarities in sensory perception making my experience indistinguishable from normal waking experiences.

I mentioned the experience as a FALSIFIABLE EXAMPLE of what someone might call "proof".

Also, "experiential data" in its strictest sense is data (in my case sensory data) that is subjectively experienced.

The only reason for which it can be said that the god/no god debate "should" be had is that it can be demonstrated that NO CONCLUSION CAN BE REACHED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


Many apologies but I did misread your post as another user pointed out. All I can say to you then is if you believe the whole "we can't even prove we are awake" argument then there is no point in you making this thread, you shouldn't even have an opinion on it.
Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.
~ Christopher Hitchens.
They'refixingtheroad

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02/02/2013 10:21 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Your religous calling was caste on plates of stone by the flaming finger of an angry God. Our religion was established the traditions of our ancestors. The dreams of our elders that are given to them in the silent hours of the night by the Great Spirit. And the premonitions of the learned Beings. It is written in the hearts of our people, THUS, we do not require churches which would only lead to us to argue about GOD. We do not wish this.

EARTHLY things may be argued about by men, butt we never argue over GOD. And the thought that white men should rule over nature and change its ways following his liking was never understood by the RED man. Our belief is that the Great Spirit has created all things. Not just mankind, but all animals, all plants, all rocks... For us all, life is holy.

But you do not understand our prayers when we address the sun, moon, and winds. You have judged us without understanding only because are prayers are different. But we are able to live in harmony with all of nature. All of nature is within us and we are part of all nature.

-- White Cloud

Last Edited by They'refixingtheroad on 02/02/2013 10:21 PM
Angelic_Warrior

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02/02/2013 10:31 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
OP, I too had a reboot almost 14 yrs. ago, due to a bad fever. It scrambled my muscle memory, sensory memories, etc.
I couldn't play my guitar. I got back to work at what seemed like someone else's job, a position I built from scratch, and nobody could help.

Seems like the Eighties (thank God;) got buried the deepest. Music and smells trigger new old memories, but often they FEEL like someone else's life at first.

I proudly use the term Born Again. In the last year a certain young lady got to me, my first CRUSH in THIS life. That has been difficult to process. 13 days ago my dad passed, and digging up old photos has been an adventure.

I don't remember many specifics from the week I was offline, except that knowing a storm was coming (Y2K?), and my parents would need me. That's my NDE testimony. Sorry to hijack.
 Quoting: hillbilly



Sorry for your loss hf

Pretty cool you found love and life tho... congrats
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I Corinthians 2:14

God doesn't choose favorites.. They choose HIM

It is not the greatness of my faith that moves mountains but my faith in the greatness of God
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 10:49 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
...


I used my own experiential data as a falsifiable example.

I certainly am NOT arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of a god or gods.

If I'm mistaken, then explain how.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


First things first, stop saying you used experimental data, you didn't. Experimental data is a scientific process using measurements, provable test method etc.

You joined the argument when you said I believe in god because of X, if you thought no one was going to challenge you on that position, why make the thread? If you don't want to have the argument, why state it? I believe that near death experiences are shown by science to be from the release if chemicals in your brain, or the brains reaction to a sudden onset of extreme stress in the case of near miss car accidents etc.

I already explained that everyone who enters the debate knows that there is no end to it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be debated.
 Quoting: LSDreamer


I believe that my experience was as genuine as any other experience that I've had in normal waking reality due to the similarities in sensory perception making my experience indistinguishable from normal waking experiences.

I mentioned the experience as a FALSIFIABLE EXAMPLE of what someone might call "proof".

Also, "experiential data" in its strictest sense is data (in my case sensory data) that is subjectively experienced.

The only reason for which it can be said that the god/no god debate "should" be had is that it can be demonstrated that NO CONCLUSION CAN BE REACHED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


Many apologies but I did misread your post as another user pointed out. All I can say to you then is if you believe the whole "we can't even prove we are awake" argument then there is no point in you making this thread, you shouldn't even have an opinion on it.
 Quoting: LSDreamer


The point of this thread is that existence of ANYTHING beyond our own individual moment-to-moment concept of self is UNPROVABLE.

That is not a case for solipsism because I don't assert that our individual moment-to-moment concept of self CERTAINLY IS all that exists.

Not knowing what DOES exist precludes anyone from knowing what DOESN'T exist.

This can be applied to all concepts (save the moment-to-moment self) including gods.

This thread demonstrates the futility of arguing the proveability of the existence or inexistence of any one or more gods.

Therefore, IT IS USEFUL IN A FORUM WHERE PROOF IS CLAIMED IN THESE MATTERS ON A DAILY BASIS.

Last Edited by simultaneous_final on 02/02/2013 10:52 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 10:52 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
False... GOD is a NECESARY CONCEPT.

so, is not this way:
"there must be a god somewhere BECAUSE i think of it"

The rigth one is:
"God IS A MUST in order to have a CAUSE OF ALL THE CAUSES... therefore, I exist just as a consequence"


Let's get right to it.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 10:56 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

 Quoting: simultaneous_final


That´s not true an atheist does not lack believe, i bet there are more atheists that belive in a god than there are christians or muslims that belive in a god.

Atheists just don´t follow religion, cause religion is :bullshit: .
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 10:57 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
False... GOD is a NECESARY CONCEPT.

so, is not this way:
"there must be a god somewhere BECAUSE i think of it"

The rigth one is:
"God IS A MUST in order to have a CAUSE OF ALL THE CAUSES... therefore, I exist just as a consequence"


Let's get right to it.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33041105


Incorrect. How can you prove that your existence didn't begin NOW...or NOW...or...give it a second...NOW?

You certainly can't. You can't even prove it to yourself.

If a cause of a cause is somehow qualitatively or quantitately "greater", then is your father "greater" than you? Is your grandfather even greater?
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 10:57 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
I think this is one of the better threads on GLP in a long long time. It does bother me, however, that a couple of souls on here did not experience anything in their NDE.
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 11:01 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
I think this is one of the better threads on GLP in a long long time. It does bother me, however, that a couple of souls on here did not experience anything in their NDE.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33543587


But maybe they did but don't remember it.

Subjectivity says, "If I don't remember it, then it didn't happen." (see my example about my mother giving me medicine in the middle of the night that I posted earlier)

Memories are just another type of sensory data which is applied to the intangible strand of subjectivity we call "I".
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 11:01 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

 Quoting: simultaneous_final


That´s not true an atheist does not lack believe, i bet there are more atheists that belive in a god than there are christians or muslims that belive in a god.

Atheists just don´t follow religion, cause religion is bullshit .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33551074


I'd look that up if I were you.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 11:08 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Incorrect. How can you prove that your existence didn't begin NOW...or NOW...or...give it a second...NOW?

You certainly can't. You can't even prove it to yourself.

If a cause of a cause is somehow qualitatively or quantitately "greater", then is your father "greater" than you? Is your grandfather even greater?
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


No... your position (in logic and philosophy) if false.
from your position, you can not prove ANYTHING, and TO KNOW SOMETHING is just impossible...

anyone can conclude that U and I does not exist and we are just a dream of someone else (and U and I think that we are real ones)

So, your case is the same mistake of the german and late philosophers... "all depend on me" (I think, therefore, i exist... but, maybe all is just something on my mind... the reality i dont know if it is real or just something inside my mind)

Those mistakes lead to NO KNOWLEDGE
ANHEDONIC

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02/02/2013 11:12 PM

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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
...GOD IS IN CONTROL!!! This age is ending now. Get your ways straight and live in His Word. It is your choice.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18225135


I do not choose to impose any human limitations, such as gender, or emotions, such as HATE, to the Creator. I choose liberty and justice for ALL. The choice IS mine, no control required. Good thread. Peaces.
 Quoting: hillbilly


greenkarma

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
simultaneous_final (OP)

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02/02/2013 11:18 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Incorrect. How can you prove that your existence didn't begin NOW...or NOW...or...give it a second...NOW?

You certainly can't. You can't even prove it to yourself.

If a cause of a cause is somehow qualitatively or quantitately "greater", then is your father "greater" than you? Is your grandfather even greater?
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


No... your position (in logic and philosophy) if false.
from your position, you can not prove ANYTHING, and TO KNOW SOMETHING is just impossible...

anyone can conclude that U and I does not exist and we are just a dream of someone else (and U and I think that we are real ones)

So, your case is the same mistake of the german and late philosophers... "all depend on me" (I think, therefore, i exist... but, maybe all is just something on my mind... the reality i dont know if it is real or just something inside my mind)

Those mistakes lead to NO KNOWLEDGE
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33041105


You're thinking of solipsism.

And while it is a philosophy which can never be verified or falsified (look it up), it is NOT what I'm saying. Solipsism goes so far as to ASSERT that the self IS all that exists.

What I'm saying is that the self is all that can be KNOWN to exist.

NOTHING leads to "knowledge" in the strictest sense of the word.

"Knowledge", in the strict sense, of ANYTHING other than your moment-to-moment "self" is unattainable.

If you can think of anything else that can be "known" (in the strict sense), then let's hear it. But remember, it only takes one exception to falsify it.

Last Edited by simultaneous_final on 02/02/2013 11:20 PM
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Jon

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02/02/2013 11:25 PM
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We evolved and that is a fact.

This is my position. Deity is not a definable word, if it is definable at what point do we become deities?
Truth is hard to come by...
ANHEDONIC

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02/02/2013 11:26 PM

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You bring up sound points and solid arguments. For myself I worship nothing, and believe in much. I am quite positive that there is an afterlife, based on personal experiences. What it is exactly? I am far from sure. But I believe that the essence of what makes us an individual survives on eternally. Is there a God? Yes, but this spirit is not what Christians believe. I believe this spirit we name as God does not control, punish, judge, blame or interfere. We all have free will and choice. How we live our lives and conduct ourselves is choice and can be a gift and a punishment for the soul. I believe God is the Universe, and everything in it, small and large. God is in all of us in the good AND bad we do everyday.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33543587



But what you believe is not Universal truth, it is your opinion, and you made GOD into your image....
 Quoting: christian


Well DUH, Susie. What do you think you do everytime you think about 'God' and what 'God' means to you? You project your own understanding and your own conceptualization of what 'God' signifies to YOU based on your awareness level. Just like the men who wrote the bible did. Why do you think there is murder, slavery, rape, spite, vengeance, and jealousy in that book that you worship? Those are HUMAN actions & HUMAN emotions that are projected & attributed to 'God' from the minds of men. There is no need to criticize someone for having his/her own conceptualizations about 'God' just because you believe 'God' is found in a book and don't realize that you are also creating your own image of 'God' in your own mind.

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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02/02/2013 11:36 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Let's get right to it.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".

How can I say all this with certainty?

BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT DREAMING RIGHT NOW, with fabricated memories and all.

No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.

Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

SO--is there a GOD?

My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.

That's why I believe in God.

But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.

So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
fuckoff2
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final


Actually Atheists are paradoxes and at best a universal negative. In order to "know" there is no God, you would need to be God, therefore negating your own existance.

Simple.

You are correct, it does take faith to believe in God, but far from blind faith as the ignorant among us profess. It is truly a battle of worldviews, but only one worldview can make sense in this universe (single-spoken-sentence... Genesis 1:1, God said, let there be... and it was so).

Peace.
christian
Suited up and Armored in Christ!

User ID: 6038128
United States
02/02/2013 11:38 PM

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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
You bring up sound points and solid arguments. For myself I worship nothing, and believe in much. I am quite positive that there is an afterlife, based on personal experiences. What it is exactly? I am far from sure. But I believe that the essence of what makes us an individual survives on eternally. Is there a God? Yes, but this spirit is not what Christians believe. I believe this spirit we name as God does not control, punish, judge, blame or interfere. We all have free will and choice. How we live our lives and conduct ourselves is choice and can be a gift and a punishment for the soul. I believe God is the Universe, and everything in it, small and large. God is in all of us in the good AND bad we do everyday.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33543587



But what you believe is not Universal truth, it is your opinion, and you made GOD into your image....
 Quoting: christian


Well DUH, Susie. What do you think you do everytime you think about 'God' and what 'God' means to you? You project your own understanding and your own conceptualization of what 'God' signifies to YOU based on your awareness level. Just like the men who wrote the bible did. Why do you think there is murder, slavery, rape, spite, vengeance, and jealousy in that book that you worship? Those are HUMAN actions & HUMAN emotions that are projected & attributed to 'God' from the minds of men. There is no need to criticize someone for having his/her own conceptualizations about 'God' just because you believe 'God' is found in a book and don't realize that you are also creating your own image of 'God' in your own mind.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC



In Judaism they have one concept of GOD that is verified in the Tanach and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Susie

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.....Matthew 6:21
simultaneous_final (OP)

User ID: 33292391
United States
02/02/2013 11:40 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
We evolved and that is a fact.

This is my position. Deity is not a definable word, if it is definable at what point do we become deities?
 Quoting: Jon


Pal, you can't prove that you're not dreaming right now, relying on fabricated memories of what you think evolution is.

Last night while you were dreaming of wild and convoluted things, didn't it all seem so proper? You didn't even question the fact that your mom looked like your boss and your sister looked like Hillary Clinton. You didn't have any problems navigating that bizarre dream world because you had fabricated memories that reinforced it.

How can you say you're not dreaming now?

excrisis
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
simultaneous_final (OP)

User ID: 33292391
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02/02/2013 11:43 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
You bring up sound points and solid arguments. For myself I worship nothing, and believe in much. I am quite positive that there is an afterlife, based on personal experiences. What it is exactly? I am far from sure. But I believe that the essence of what makes us an individual survives on eternally. Is there a God? Yes, but this spirit is not what Christians believe. I believe this spirit we name as God does not control, punish, judge, blame or interfere. We all have free will and choice. How we live our lives and conduct ourselves is choice and can be a gift and a punishment for the soul. I believe God is the Universe, and everything in it, small and large. God is in all of us in the good AND bad we do everyday.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33543587



But what you believe is not Universal truth, it is your opinion, and you made GOD into your image....
 Quoting: christian


Well DUH, Susie. What do you think you do everytime you think about 'God' and what 'God' means to you? You project your own understanding and your own conceptualization of what 'God' signifies to YOU based on your awareness level. Just like the men who wrote the bible did. Why do you think there is murder, slavery, rape, spite, vengeance, and jealousy in that book that you worship? Those are HUMAN actions & HUMAN emotions that are projected & attributed to 'God' from the minds of men. There is no need to criticize someone for having his/her own conceptualizations about 'God' just because you believe 'God' is found in a book and don't realize that you are also creating your own image of 'God' in your own mind.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC



In Judaism they have one concept of GOD that is verified in the Tanach and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
 Quoting: christian


"verified" isn't the correct term here.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
They'refixingtheroad

User ID: 18708307
United States
02/02/2013 11:48 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Somebody wrote:

I think this is one of the better threads on GLP in a long long time. It does bother me, however, that a couple of souls on here did not experience anything in their NDE.

I don't see why it would bother you if it doesn't bother those that felt it was nothing or felt it as a good sleep. There was something there of nothing and if it was sleep... who doesn't like a good sleep with a good dream of waking up only to dream on...

Late Update: Even at the end of the road you look into it and it is so sacred no "soul" can ever touch it. Might be able to through a prayer into it but to enter into it is an impossibilty.

Pathways

Last Edited by They'refixingtheroad on 02/02/2013 11:57 PM
Vaellene

User ID: 27895554
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02/02/2013 11:50 PM

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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
WRONG , bad thread
They'refixingtheroad

User ID: 18708307
United States
02/02/2013 11:58 PM
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Re: Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
WRONG , bad thread
 Quoting: Vaellene


WRONG , bad thread
 Quoting: Vaellene


What is wrong, why is that wrong bad?

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