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Message Subject Thread for Atheists & Christians - STFU
Poster Handle Don'tBeAfraid
Post Content
Let's get right to it.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is real.

No one can prove that "God" or any variation thereof the concept is NOT real.

All arguments are moot without assuming a "given".

How can I say all this with certainty?


No matter what, FAITH is required just to participate in whatever you think is reality.

Both atheists and God-believers base their beliefs on FAITH in experiential data.

A true atheist "lacks a belief" and that is a perfectly honest position to hold. However, the rabid atheists who argue endlessly that "there is no God" are taking the same leap of faith that the proselytizing Christians are.

SO--is there a GOD?

My experiential data (a near-death experience that was seemingly as "real" as anything else I've experienced) says YES.

That's why I believe in God.

But I'd be a liar if I said that my NDE provides "proof"--even to myself. After all, my dreams are as "real" as anything even when I'm walking on the ceiling and lightsaber fighting and flying a MIG--all with a head full of outlandish memories.

So...all of you know-it-alls arguing FOR or AGAINST the concept of "God" need to
because your arguments ARE DEMONSTRABLY FLAWED.
 Quoting: simultaneous_final

Before getting angry with those trapped in their 'opinions' of the mind, please consider that what you 'feel' to be 'real' could be simply your own MIND. Careful, as the MIND is a programmed 'trick'.

For you to then 'believe' in God based upon your own mind would be as trapped in a 'belief' system as the atheists and believers you hurl you last line of hate towards.

What is provable? The physical - since the mind is NOT real.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9744765

I don't feel like arguing the existence of God, for that's a long process, and at the end while I can display numerous proofs of God (it's been done over and over in philosophy), I can easily prove that I exist by a simple experiment.

Watch the video completely. It's a brief science documentary discussing a pendulum and the motion of it in a predictable pattern based upon simple physics.

If I do experiments with a pendulum, I can prove the existance of time. I can measure the period of the oscilating mass in a predictable way. I can write down my observations. This shows continuity of existence as well as demonstrating physical laws of dimensions, mass, time, etc.

I might think, "All of this perception may be a delusion." however my written data is not the ravings of a madman, but logical, orderly, and can be repeated over and over with the same result.

I might think, "OK, that proves that I exist in an ordered Universe, but not that others exist.". OK, well as a cognizant being, I can then have others repeat my experiment, and they will have the same results if they perform the experiment in the same way, for physical laws do not change. Then looking at their data, and them looking at my data, seeing the veracity of both sets of data and the repeatability of both sets, then we could each conclude, "Well that other being exists, don't they? I am not imagining this reality, for if I were insane, it would be impossible to achieve such uniformity."

However, both observers might be deluded, and so we could have many scientists throughout time doing the same experiment and coming up with the same results, and they have, and so we know this reality exists conclusively. We don't live in an illusion and are not all raving lunatics unable to believe our perceptions.

That doesn't mean there aren't alternate realms and that we're not all in some virtual world cooked up by a Supreme Being. We might be, but if so, then that Supreme Being created physical laws that both govern this Universe as well as pointing to the existence of a Supreme Being.
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