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Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 12:07 AM
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Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
[link to danlimmer.com]

On the second and third page of this article, it describes how EMT's would react to a shooting victim. I found it most interesting that is says "The shooting just occurred,
and although the wound could prove fatal, it by no
means would stop you from resuscitating—even in the
absence of vital signs.
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 12:08 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
They were kept further down the road. They didnt have access.
Vision Thing

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02/03/2013 12:12 AM

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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
A guy posted here a while back who said he worked in an emergency room and he said everyone gets to the emergency room, even if they for sure don't have a pulse, he said they bring the bodies from the nursing home there.

He said if there was any kind of shooting or stabbing or accident, the ambulances would pick up the victim and the emergency room would see everything and all efforts at resuscitation would be attempted.
"How can the breakaway civilization operate with impunity? There is a vast secrecy about outer space and inner space. Inner space is consciousness. Eight billion people have to have their inner space shut down, through mind control, so that the outer space program can be kept secret.

Divorcing inner and outer space from each other is the core goal of all elites. It always has been. My commitment is to ending the divorce. Then we would be privy to an astounding kind of knowledge. Not just new information, but a new kind of information. We would see with new eyes." - Jon Rappoport
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 12:15 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
In NYC medics don't go in until its deemed all clear, they stay on the outermost perimeter of "active" shooters. Not trying to be a shill just saying how we do it here
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 12:24 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
All the other misleading red herring bullshit doesn't mean a thing. This is by far the most riveting and shocking piece of information about the whole story. There is no excuse for a total lack of attempted patient care in such a tragic event. Anyone with the slightest fraction of an open mind should be sitting back and scratching their heads. Too bad there's so many dumb shits in this country!
ProNerd

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02/03/2013 12:30 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
I think failure to render aid is a crime, is it not?


Who declared all these people dead? I think it take a while for 26 people to die, all kinds of wounds it could take hours.
HooleyDooley

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02/03/2013 01:09 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
In NYC medics don't go in until its deemed all clear, they stay on the outermost perimeter of "active" shooters. Not trying to be a shill just saying how we do it here
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30248208


That doesn't explain why none went in at all.

They were evacuating kids, which means it's all clear as far as the police are concerned, and the paramedics were still twiddling their thumbs in the triage areas.

According to their statements, the cops would have known in 1 or 2 minutes from entering that Lanza was dead.

Then, supposedly, cops pick up 2 half dead kids and walk out with them... WTF, who does that?

Let's do some simple maths, if there are 6 armed police inside to guard against a possible second shooter, and 2 start acting as paramedics instead of calling the paramedics in, now there are only 4 armed police to guard against the possibility of a second shooter.

The bottom line is that if it's safe enough for cops to stop being cops, then it is not only safe enough to call the paramedics in, it's safer. (because all the armed police are still acting as armed police, instead of some supposedly acting as paramedics by checking pulses etc)

Last Edited by HooleyDooley on 02/03/2013 01:26 AM
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/03/2013 09:56 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
bump
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 10:03 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
The supposed Cops called the building clear and the shooter dead minutes after they went in.

The interview with the cops states they found children with pulses. The evacuation of the other teachers and children was going on.

There was NO REASON the EMTs could not go in. NONE.

This is the biggest question that has been asked by every first responder should be asking. Cops do NOT declare a person dead they always roll EMTs into the scene.

Those who try to make excuses why EMTs were not allowed in are liars, EMTS mess up 'evidence' and crime scenes all the time, but the POLICE never would accept the liability of NOT letting EMS in, even in scenes with clear signs of death, which was NOT the case here.
WatcherJ

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02/03/2013 10:16 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Here's my thoughts. The cops that carried out the 2 injured kids should be held liable for their deaths in my opinion. I think they could have contributed to their deaths by NOT allowing EMT's in. An EMT would have accessed the child's injuries, probably stabilized as best as possible before moving the child to the ambulance then to the hospital.
GladioDaddy-O

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02/03/2013 10:27 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Here are links to two articles which state no EMT's in the building:

[link to www.nytimes.com]

[link to www.ctpost.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 10:29 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
The supposed Cops called the building clear and the shooter dead minutes after they went in.

The interview with the cops states they found children with pulses. The evacuation of the other teachers and children was going on.

There was NO REASON the EMTs could not go in. NONE.

This is the biggest question that has been asked by every first responder should be asking. Cops do NOT declare a person dead they always roll EMTs into the scene.

Those who try to make excuses why EMTs were not allowed in are liars, EMTS mess up 'evidence' and crime scenes all the time, but the POLICE never would accept the liability of NOT letting EMS in, even in scenes with clear signs of death, which was NOT the case here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11269294


If they had allowed the EMT's in, they would have had to kill them afterward. That's the only explanation. They were trying to save the EMT's.
ceawaves

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02/03/2013 10:35 AM

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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
The supposed Cops called the building clear and the shooter dead minutes after they went in.

The interview with the cops states they found children with pulses. The evacuation of the other teachers and children was going on.

There was NO REASON the EMTs could not go in. NONE.

This is the biggest question that has been asked by every first responder should be asking. Cops do NOT declare a person dead they always roll EMTs into the scene.

Those who try to make excuses why EMTs were not allowed in are liars, EMTS mess up 'evidence' and crime scenes all the time, but the POLICE never would accept the liability of NOT letting EMS in, even in scenes with clear signs of death, which was NOT the case here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11269294


Thought the coroner was the only person who could officially declare that someone was dead, at a crime scene or car wreak things like that.
GladioDaddy-O

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02/03/2013 10:35 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
The supposed Cops called the building clear and the shooter dead minutes after they went in.

The interview with the cops states they found children with pulses. The evacuation of the other teachers and children was going on.

There was NO REASON the EMTs could not go in. NONE.

This is the biggest question that has been asked by every first responder should be asking. Cops do NOT declare a person dead they always roll EMTs into the scene.

Those who try to make excuses why EMTs were not allowed in are liars, EMTS mess up 'evidence' and crime scenes all the time, but the POLICE never would accept the liability of NOT letting EMS in, even in scenes with clear signs of death, which was NOT the case here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11269294


If they had allowed the EMT's in, they would have had to kill them afterward. That's the only explanation. They were trying to save the EMT's.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14408911


LMAO good one.
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 10:40 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Personally I do not understand why we even HAVE cops or these "special" teams as all they ever do is sit outside behind their vehicles until the bad guys kill themselves.

They have never saved a single life nor stopped a single shooter. They should be replaced with morticians armed with body bags.
ceawaves

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02/03/2013 10:48 AM

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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Personally I do not understand why we even HAVE cops or these "special" teams as all they ever do is sit outside behind their vehicles until the bad guys kill themselves.

They have never saved a single life nor stopped a single shooter. They should be replaced with morticians armed with body bags.
 Quoting: Black Knight


remember when Columbine happened to have the tv on that day, and wondered why the cops never went into that school while those two were still walking around killing people, cops never went inside that school building until they knew those two had killed themselves..
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 10:55 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
A guy posted here a while back who said he worked in an emergency room and he said everyone gets to the emergency room, even if they for sure don't have a pulse, he said they bring the bodies from the nursing home there.

He said if there was any kind of shooting or stabbing or accident, the ambulances would pick up the victim and the emergency room would see everything and all efforts at resuscitation would be attempted.
 Quoting: Vision Thing


Yes, that's true!

Never in my years of working in a trauma hospital, have I seen such a shoddy job. They always bring in all the bodies. They need multiple people to do the work and they always try to resuscitate.

Believe it or not, they can save a person even after being clinically dead for 45 minutes...or longer in some cases.

The sandy hook local hospital claimed they had 100 extra trauma people on standby ready for the flow of patients. But only 2 kids showed up with tummy aches. And i think one adult.
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 10:56 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Personally I do not understand why we even HAVE cops or these "special" teams as all they ever do is sit outside behind their vehicles until the bad guys kill themselves.

They have never saved a single life nor stopped a single shooter. They should be replaced with morticians armed with body bags.
 Quoting: Black Knight


remember when Columbine happened to have the tv on that day, and wondered why the cops never went into that school while those two were still walking around killing people, cops never went inside that school building until they knew those two had killed themselves..
 Quoting: ceawaves


According to one of the high school survivors, he witnessed gunshots coming from the roof - at least 2 extra gunmen.

This poor guy is now locked up in a mental hospital with court ordered sedatives and drugs. His mom can't get him released.
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 10:57 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Personally I do not understand why we even HAVE cops or these "special" teams as all they ever do is sit outside behind their vehicles until the bad guys kill themselves.

They have never saved a single life nor stopped a single shooter. They should be replaced with morticians armed with body bags.
 Quoting: Black Knight


What a great post!
It is true. They should be equipped with
phone apps to let them know a shooter has "offed"
himself or is sitting in a docile position waiting
to be handcuffed.

It's always one or the other.
Has there been a story where the cops killed the
alleged shooter?
GladioDaddy-O

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02/03/2013 10:59 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Personally I do not understand why we even HAVE cops or these "special" teams as all they ever do is sit outside behind their vehicles until the bad guys kill themselves.

They have never saved a single life nor stopped a single shooter. They should be replaced with morticians armed with body bags.
 Quoting: Black Knight


What a great post!
It is true. They should be equipped with
phone apps to let them know a shooter has "offed"
himself or is sitting in a docile position waiting
to be handcuffed.

It's always one or the other.
Has there been a story where the cops killed the
alleged shooter?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1482838


Then there's the other side of the spectrum, when scared, trigger-happy cops shoot harmless, unarmed victims. (Amadou Diallo)
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 11:02 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Personally I do not understand why we even HAVE cops or these "special" teams as all they ever do is sit outside behind their vehicles until the bad guys kill themselves.

They have never saved a single life nor stopped a single shooter. They should be replaced with morticians armed with body bags.
 Quoting: Black Knight


remember when Columbine happened to have the tv on that day, and wondered why the cops never went into that school while those two were still walking around killing people, cops never went inside that school building until they knew those two had killed themselves..
 Quoting: ceawaves


If you ask a cop they will tell you that "protocol" keeps them from doing anything, that the lawyers and the fear of lawyers have the system so paralized that action is no longer possible. If that is true, as I believe it is, then why bother spending all that money on equiment? Just so a bunch of gung ho's can dress up and pretend they are GI Joes? If you want to dress up like a soldier then you should act like a soldier and get the hell in there and save lives. Our GI's do it every day in Afghanistan, or they used to at least before their "protocol" started confining them to the insides of their own bases.
Redcat1

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02/03/2013 11:03 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Story from Lexington Kentucky.

Umi Southworth was alive but the police thought she was dead. So her medical help did not come until 6 hours after it should have.

This could be the tragic same mistake in Sandy Hook.

[link to www.firefightingnews.com]
GladioDaddy-O

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02/03/2013 11:05 AM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Story from Lexington Kentucky.

Umi Southworth was alive but the police thought she was dead. So her medical help did not come until 6 hours after it should have.

This could be the tragic same mistake in Sandy Hook.

[link to www.firefightingnews.com]
 Quoting: Redcat1


I'm not sure "mistake" is the right word there.
Anonymous Coward
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02/03/2013 07:22 PM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
on the police scaner recording you can hear the medics being ordered to the firehouse...an irritated medice asks annoyingly where he is suppose to go..school or firehoue?...i beleive they confirm that they should go to the firehouse.
Bittercritter
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02/04/2013 03:35 PM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
The supposed Cops called the building clear and the shooter dead minutes after they went in.

The interview with the cops states they found children with pulses. The evacuation of the other teachers and children was going on.

There was NO REASON the EMTs could not go in. NONE.

This is the biggest question that has been asked by every first responder should be asking. Cops do NOT declare a person dead they always roll EMTs into the scene.

Those who try to make excuses why EMTs were not allowed in are liars, EMTS mess up 'evidence' and crime scenes all the time, but the POLICE never would accept the liability of NOT letting EMS in, even in scenes with clear signs of death, which was NOT the case here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11269294


In complete agreement. If children actually died some parent would have been suing by now for withholding aid while the police kept the EMTs away. Sometimes the best evidence is what didn't happen.
Bittercritter
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02/04/2013 03:37 PM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Story from Lexington Kentucky.

Umi Southworth was alive but the police thought she was dead. So her medical help did not come until 6 hours after it should have.

This could be the tragic same mistake in Sandy Hook.

[link to www.firefightingnews.com]
 Quoting: Redcat1


Same mistake - X 20!
Right...
askingquestions

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02/05/2013 07:17 PM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
The fact that two of the children inside the school were given a trip to the hospital, and the other twenty who were shot were ignored, proves that the situation was safe enough to evacuate the other twenty children. Because the local authorities admit they did not evacuate the 20 children who died yet chose two to evacuate, the local authorities have admitted to FAILING in thier DUTY TO RESCUE, this failure is PUNISHABLE by LAW. see the below link for more info

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

I think this one fact about selectively only evacuating 2 children while ignoring the other 20 is a blatant admission of guilt, why aren't lawyers jumping all over this? Maybe they will soon....
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 07:20 PM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
A guy posted here a while back who said he worked in an emergency room and he said everyone gets to the emergency room, even if they for sure don't have a pulse, he said they bring the bodies from the nursing home there.

He said if there was any kind of shooting or stabbing or accident, the ambulances would pick up the victim and the emergency room would see everything and all efforts at resuscitation would be attempted.
 Quoting: Vision Thing


That's not true. My dad went straight from the nursing home to the funeral home.
Stickywicket

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02/05/2013 07:43 PM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
In NYC medics don't go in until its deemed all clear, they stay on the outermost perimeter of "active" shooters. Not trying to be a shill just saying how we do it here
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30248208


That doesn't explain why none went in at all.

They were evacuating kids, which means it's all clear as far as the police are concerned, and the paramedics were still twiddling their thumbs in the triage areas.

According to their statements, the cops would have known in 1 or 2 minutes from entering that Lanza was dead.

Then, supposedly, cops pick up 2 half dead kids and walk out with them... WTF, who does that?

Let's do some simple maths, if there are 6 armed police inside to guard against a possible second shooter, and 2 start acting as paramedics instead of calling the paramedics in, now there are only 4 armed police to guard against the possibility of a second shooter.

The bottom line is that if it's safe enough for cops to stop being cops, then it is not only safe enough to call the paramedics in, it's safer. (because all the armed police are still acting as armed police, instead of some supposedly acting as paramedics by checking pulses etc)
 Quoting: HooleyDooley


yep, that makes a lot of sense to me.
Stickywicket

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02/05/2013 07:51 PM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Here are links to two articles which state no EMT's in the building:

[link to www.nytimes.com]

[link to www.ctpost.com]
 Quoting: GladioDaddy-O



I thought Rosen said in a different interview that the "Stone-faced lady" came to his house at noon, not 11:00.
DiamondGal (OP)
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02/05/2013 08:03 PM
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Re: Very interesting article on EMT protocol - why didn't the EMT's enter Sandy Hook?
Here are links to two articles which state no EMT's in the building:

[link to www.nytimes.com]

[link to www.ctpost.com]
 Quoting: GladioDaddy-O



I thought Rosen said in a different interview that the "Stone-faced lady" came to his house at noon, not 11:00.
 Quoting: Stickywicket


So much wrong with that first article. The cops said as soon as they saw the gunman dead in the classroom, they started going door to door and letting the other kids out of the classroom. How on earth did they know there was not another gunman in the building? How did they know there was not another gunman hiding outside to ambush the kids as they evacuated. And why did they not bring in the medics???

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