Can anyone explain why the religious are so obtuse mentally, to even think outside the box?

:applaud1:

Why don't you explain how a God can exist who doesn't have a creator? The universe always existed and it is even expanding today. The universe always was so it doesn't need a creator but who created God? You can't say God always was because he could not have thought himself into existence. Explain how this God made all the planets, all the stars, all the galaxies, etc. on one single day but it took him another day just to make some simple plants on earth, and those plants grew without the sun. Before you make your silly assumptions about evolution, I think you got a lot of explaining to do yourself.

Explain how a donkey could talk using human language? Explain how a man lived in a fish for 3 days? Explain how some big star up in the sky could lead men to a stable? Explain where all the zombies went after they came out of their graves after the death of Jesus? And this could go on and on. YOu are just not intelligent enough to understand evolution, so go take a course in college. You will probably flunk out, but oh well, you always have the Bible to go back to.

Also, I take issue with the idea that because something "looks coded" it was in fact truly intelligently designed. Stephen Meyer (Author of "Signature in the cell") cites the Rosetta Stone as a case for something that we wouldn't try to explain away based on natural phenomena -- that we obviously see the handiwork of intelligent design there and call it as such. He also uses the analogy of computer programming. Well, the difference between those things and the DNA found in life is that we're talking about millions of years when it comes to how life evolved. Sure, only intelligent, purposeful design could create computers or Rosetta Stones on an accelerated timetable, but given millions of years it's possible that something that "looks" intelligently coded is really the result of life forms grinding out and competing for survival over eons. Rosetta Stones and computers were created by intelligent life forms for a purpose, but were borne out by physical processes that can be pointed to -- chisels carving rock, machines soldering computer chips. What physical processes -- other than those of evolution could have borne out something like DNA? Was there a "biological factory" somewhere, where life was forged? Just because our only examples of complex, coded things were created by humans in a relatively short period of time, it does not mean that the only yet unexplained example of something that appears coded -- life -- could not have arisen "randomly" given enough time and variation. Flip enough coins, or randomly generate binary code, and patterns will appear, but no one would argue there was an "intelligent force" behind them. Add to those random events a lot of time and the shaping forces of natural selection and random mutation and something that "looks" coded could well "accidentally" appear... and take on life of its own.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Claiming to be wise, they became fools,
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,

because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

Well, if you do drugs like acid, you can have an OBE. I think you probably imagined being out of body. It is easy to do if you are tired or emotional. That doesn't make some god real. It only means that you detached emotionally.
Think of dreams, they are like having an OBE every night. But dreams don't prove god. So I guess you are going to claim you met "god" on your trip and he told you some secrets. I don't believe you. I am sorry. The fact that you believe in this obnoxious god is proof enough for me that you are telling lies, just like your daddy.

How would you react and what would you think if you had an Outer-Body-Experience (OBE)? If you found your conscious awareness residing outside of and operating independent of your physical body, how would you make sense of that?

You sound like a critical thinker but I also get the impression that you have been disillusioned by the influence of those who push their dogmatic religious views about 'God' and the afterlife so it's made you dismiss the concepts all together. Is this accurate?

I think the theory about aliens makes much more sense than any of our traditional religions do. There has to be life on other planets. The ancient books, even the Bible, speak of the Nephilim coming to earth, having sexual relations with women, and having children. In every religion there is some mention of snake gods, reptilians, or whatever you want to call them. The American Indians talked about them, named their tribes after them. The teaching of these reptilians is prevalent in China and Japan and really all over the world, except for places where this knowledge has been systematically destroyed.

Piltdown Man was never used as evidence for evolution and may never have been used as evidence for anything but Piltdown Man. In any case, teaching that one person's hoax can undermine all of a science falsely teaches that science is very fragile and based on little evidence. It also falsely teaches students it is scientific to generalize from one thing to everything on the basis of one data point.

In regards to Haeckels embryo drawing's, unfortunately he faked some of the drawings to show similarities that were not there. However, anti-evolutionists assume that scientists get their data about biological development from these old drawings. They say that because these drawings were fudged, there is no evidence for evolution in developmental biology.
Again we have a case of an anti-evolutionist confusing an illustration with evidence. (The peppered moth is another example.) It is also a huge leap to conclude that one person's misdeed invalidates all of a science. But this is what Wells' “weakness” argument teaches. Wells' book did have one benefit, though: Haeckel's drawings have since been removed from most textbooks.

And there lay the hubris and foolishness of science. There was a time when gravity was magical. Now everyone knows about it. But there were also people who decided that looking for gravity was a waste of time and even heresy... and that'd be the roll you're playing now.

The idea that things that can't be proven should be dismissed goes against the very tenants of scientific discovery.

repugnant. Perhaps things that can't be proven simply need for someone to come along with a way to prove them.

If I had an OBE, and I once had an "experience" when I was younger, I just attributed it to my brain, if you know what I'm saying. I think that when my brain dies, I will be gone. I think all the supernatural, out of body experiences, like dreams, happen because of our brain. But I don't think we live on after death...but I could be wrong, of course.

I have the tendency to look toward the natural. I have had some really weird and unexplainable things happen to me but I think I search for some reasoning in the realm of reality. Sometimes it is hard to find. But I don't see the possibility of some caring god who is looking down from heaven at this mess we have made of the earth and who would not lift a single heavenly finger to change things. I think that God would be barbaric.

Imagine watching while children starve to death on a daily basis, and not doing a thing. God can supposedly do anything. Would he not make their land compatible to grow crops? Would he not give them water? I think we would like to think we live forever but I don't want to live forever. So maybe that explains it. I wish to die and be no more. I don't have that desire. Desire always influences our beliefs. Don't you think?

no sir, it did not. That's why it's still called the theory of evolution.

Last Edited by Subway Prophets on 02/09/2013 02:19 AM

Thank you. I don't know enough about evolution to say all that. They, unfortunately, won't listen to the evidence and they will continue to question the same old things over and over again. It is like talking to a wall.

It is too late for me to watch those videos but I am going to presume that the old man is telling me that aliens are demons and then I'm gonna laugh. I need a laugh tonight, but no thanks. I've heard it all before and demons don't travel in flying saucers. If these videos are something else, give me a brief synopsis and I will watch them tomorrow.

Really? Know some demons do ya? How do they get around?

Except that evolution has already been proven, we have fossil evidence. And except for the fact that God can NEVER be proven. What God are you going to prove exists? Does it HAVE to be the Christian God? Are you in with the Muslim God? Are you going to say that the Mormons and Joseph Smith have the correct God? OR maybe the Hindu people are correct about their many gods? Or maybe Calvinists have the right god, or the anabaptists or the Brethren. Science makes scientific discoveries. Religions try to make "god" discoveries and they always fail.

Nope, don't know any demons. Are you one? And I have never seen any aliens. I have the tendency to not believe in things that haven't been proven by science. That's for you to do.

There is absolutely no proof for evolution. It is another FAITH.

Fossils do not prove evolution. Fossils prove that things died.

Yes, sir, it definitely did. And I am not a sir, I am a woman. But anyway, go take a course in college on evolution. They call it the theory of evolution, kind of like they call it the theory of gravity. So the theory of gravity is in the same class as the theory of evolution. You believe in gravity, don't you?

An Extraterrestrial Message

By the very definition of science, it has done no such thing.

No ma'am, evolutionary THEORY has not been proven. That's scientific arrogance without solid proof.

As for which God? I have no idea. I'm not in this debate on one side or the other. I'm in this debate because there's hubris on both sides and the truth is lying in the middle, as it always is. To dismiss one or the other is the obtuse part of all this. To claim supreme authority on the subject and to discount all other viewpoints is the very thing that will hamstring both searches. You began all this claiming that the religious are 'stuck in the box'. The statement is true, but no more true than for yourself. You don't want to search all possibilities, only those you understand. Which, by the way, is the exact same thing you accuse the religious of.

repugnant, destructive, and obtuse.

Last Edited by Subway Prophets on 02/09/2013 02:41 AM

Okay, I am going to bed. Have it your way. Fossils don't prove evolution and I just wasted a bunch of money to send my kids to college. God created the world in six days and then he needed to rest. God spoke to Moses in a burning bush, then ten days later, he decided he would kill Moses instead. But Moses had his wife cut the tip of their son's penis off, smear the blood all over his feet, and then God spared Moses. And we all know that all these stories are great and lovely and so true.

Of course, Lot sent his virgin daughters out so that a crowd of people could have sex with them. He was just trying to protect the angels that came to his door. And which Bible character was it that had two daughters that got him drunk and raped him so they could get pregnant and carry on the family name. I can't recall that name but it might have been Lot or Jack from the Beanstalk. Fill me in. And we have that man named Jonah who was living in a whale and he lit a candle and then the whale sneezed him up on dry land. And that could be Pinnochio that I'm thinking about too, but it is late. So thank you. I now believe in Bible God.

Evolution is a new faith with new high priests.

Apologies for the sir when it should have been a ma'am. So, you think I should go listen to other people who only believe one way so that I can understand 'how it is'?

Madame, you just invited me to your church. See you Sunday.

The same can be said about atheists. Atheism has every trait of a religion, but we can't tell you that eh? Just watch, when you all find out your TRUE purpose. Here's a hint...Albert Pike.

Last Edited by cmoG530 on 02/09/2013 02:40 AM

Well, who the hell do you believe in then? Are you some limp wristed, I will let others decide my truth for me, type of people? You gotta take a stand somewhere. You gotta believe in something. You take that chance that you could be wrong but your position is just ridiculous. Sitting on the fence, waiting until someone comes up with something that tickles your ears? Grow up. Decide what you want to believe and then tell people about it.

Sorry, I don't go to church so I can't invite you.

Proof by belief creates truth vacuously. Proof by fact defines truth incompletely, yet provides a consistent frame to expand understanding. Where theory crosses into fact may be a function only of one's desire or ability to comprehend accumulating fact.

It's effectively impossible to prove the scientific rational to those who entertain only belief, and those who substitute belief for fact do so at their (and unfortunately others) peril. The deeper more interesting question is, "Why do they do so?"

Substitute the word "gravity" for "evolution" during creationist arguments. What do you conclude? Those who wish to explore divine intervention should post to philosophy or religion, and leave science alone.

Yeah, I know all about Pike. He is going to turn the Christians against the atheists. The Christians (kind hearted sweethearts that they are) are going to kill all the atheists. Then they are going to become disillusioned with their own stupid religion of Christianity and look for a new savior which will be Pike's One world Order. I will be dead and you will be a slave. I think I will be in better shape.