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Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?

 
Greatest I am
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Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?

[link to www.youtube.com]

I have always had a problem with the notion that God would have hardened Pharaoh’s soft heart and pave the way for him to kill/murder the first born of Egypt. For God to do so would have been evil indeed.

Do you think that science has explained the purported miracles as natural phenomena?

From what I can see, the Jews who wrote the story did not take it literally.

[link to www.raceandhistory.com]

Should Christians recognize the O T stories as natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?

Regards
DL

Last Edited by Greatest I am on 02/04/2013 02:55 PM
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Fiction!

"Out of Egypt" means "out of the horizon of Egypt".

"Moses" is the Arien sun "personified".

The "12 tribes" are the 12 constellations on the ecliptic of the sun.

"Moses", the Arien sun, led the "12 tribes", the 12 constellations "out of the horizon of Egypt" on the vernal equinox at the dawn of the age of Aries.

The "first borne" is the first constellation coming "out of the horizon of Egypt" on the vernal equinox.

The "first borne" of Egypt was Taurus, the golden calf.

The "first borne" of Israel was Aries, the ram.

"God" is the sun and the precession of the equinox.

"God", precession, "killed the first borne of Egypt" when the sun rose in the constellation of Aries, the ram, at the dawn of the age of Aries. "God" "saved the first borne of Israel", Aries, the ram.

It's celestial mythology, fiction.
Greatest I am (OP)

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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Fiction!

"Out of Egypt" means "out of the horizon of Egypt".

"Moses" is the Arien sun "personified".

The "12 tribes" are the 12 constellations on the ecliptic of the sun.

"Moses", the Arien sun, led the "12 tribes", the 12 constellations "out of the horizon of Egypt" on the vernal equinox at the dawn of the age of Aries.

The "first borne" is the first constellation coming "out of the horizon of Egypt" on the vernal equinox.

The "first borne" of Egypt was Taurus, the golden calf.

The "first borne" of Israel was Aries, the ram.

"God" is the sun and the precession of the equinox.

"God", precession, "killed the first borne of Egypt" when the sun rose in the constellation of Aries, the ram, at the dawn of the age of Aries. "God" "saved the first borne of Israel", Aries, the ram.

It's celestial mythology, fiction.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 252372


From the esoteric POV and the myth that sprung from it, no argument.

What do you make of the city of Avaris and the Hyksos?
They were real Semites and did leave Egypt.

Regards
DL
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02/05/2013 08:16 AM
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Never take any biblical story literally. They contradict one another. bsflag
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02/05/2013 08:19 AM
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
There was references found in Greece of the story happening at the time.
Honestly how the fuck could we know?
But the part about God killing innocents, he did that shit a lot. Read how many groups of people the Jews wiped off of the planet.
Hell immediately after Moses brought the commandments down, they slaughtered a tribe of people.
The best way to even attempt to understand it is either by thinking God is a schizo or there were multiple Gods that were fucking with Moses's head.
Damn dude there are parts of the Torah where it will be talking about Jakob getting laid and next verse mentions talking trees and back to Jakob getting laid.
The Torah was weird dude.
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02/05/2013 08:22 AM

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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
From the esoteric POV and the myth that sprung from it, no argument.

What do you make of the city of Avaris and the Hyksos?
They were real Semites and did leave Egypt.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


The Hyskos with their horses and chariots? Probably Hurrians.
Ostria
Greatest I am (OP)

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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
There was references found in Greece of the story happening at the time.
Honestly how the fuck could we know?
But the part about God killing innocents, he did that shit a lot. Read how many groups of people the Jews wiped off of the planet.
Hell immediately after Moses brought the commandments down, they slaughtered a tribe of people.
The best way to even attempt to understand it is either by thinking God is a schizo or there were multiple Gods that were fucking with Moses's head.
Damn dude there are parts of the Torah where it will be talking about Jakob getting laid and next verse mentions talking trees and back to Jakob getting laid.
The Torah was weird dude.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33605837


Theirs was a God of war and not a nice one for sure.
The Christians chose him for the same reason.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am (OP)

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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
From the esoteric POV and the myth that sprung from it, no argument.

What do you make of the city of Avaris and the Hyksos?
They were real Semites and did leave Egypt.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


The Hyskos with their horses and chariots? Probably Hurrians.
 Quoting: Ostria1


Doubtful that.
Wrong region.

Regards
DL
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02/08/2013 07:23 AM
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
you need to check out this guys videos on youtube.
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
The Exodus never could happened like this. It's says in the Bible there where 600.000 man, not counting for there wifes children, lifestock, etc. That would be one hell off a line of marching people and material and that 40 years long in the dessert.

Greetings Fred
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
The Exodus never could happened like this. It's says in the Bible there where 600.000 man, not counting for there wifes children, lifestock, etc. That would be one hell off a line of marching people and material and that 40 years long in the dessert.

Greetings Fred
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24941531


No argument. That is likely why the writer of the myth invoked the miracle of manna.

Regards
DL
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02/10/2013 07:55 PM
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
[link to thekolbrin.com]

"A whirlwind arose in the East and swept over the encamped hosts. A gale raged all night and in the red twilit dawn there was a movement of the Earth, the waters receded from the seashore and were rolled back on themselves. There was a strange silence and men, in the gloom, it was seen that the waters had parted, leaving a passage between. The land had risen, but it was disturbed and trembled, the way was not straight or clear. The waters about were as if spun within a bowl, the swampland alone remained undisturbed. From the horn of the Destroyer came a high shrilling noise which stopped the ears of men."

"The slaves had been making sacrifices in despair, their lamentations were loud. Now, before the strange sight, there was hesitation and doubt; for the space of a breath they stood still and silent. Then all was confusion and shouting, some pressing forward into the waters against all who sought to flee back from the unstable ground. Then, in exaltation, their leader led them into the midst of the waters through the confusion. Yet many sought to turn back into the host behind them, while others fled along the empty shores."

Last Edited by Manu-K on 02/10/2013 07:56 PM
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
you need to check out this guys videos on youtube.
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31840527


Way too much un-proven issues.

One would have to suspend logic and reason to believe all that without proof and only the foolish will do so.

Come up with actual facts and I will listen.

Regards
DL
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Thread: Fuck the Bible
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Racin​g to end vaccinations.
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Immanuel Velikovsky already explained all that.
Manu-Koelbren

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02/10/2013 08:03 PM
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Immanuel Velikovsky already explained all that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34100289


Yep and he quoted Pliny about it, so we know some shit happened back then that upset the earth. The Chinese document their biggest comet flyby during the 15th century BC. It wasn't myth folks, but it WAS mythified.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
Greatest I am (OP)

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02/11/2013 07:28 AM

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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Mythified says it all.

Regards
DL
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02/11/2013 07:52 AM
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Fiction!

"Out of Egypt" means "out of the horizon of Egypt".

"Moses" is the Arien sun "personified".

The "12 tribes" are the 12 constellations on the ecliptic of the sun.

"Moses", the Arien sun, led the "12 tribes", the 12 constellations "out of the horizon of Egypt" on the vernal equinox at the dawn of the age of Aries.

The "first borne" is the first constellation coming "out of the horizon of Egypt" on the vernal equinox.

The "first borne" of Egypt was Taurus, the golden calf.

The "first borne" of Israel was Aries, the ram.

"God" is the sun and the precession of the equinox.

"God", precession, "killed the first borne of Egypt" when the sun rose in the constellation of Aries, the ram, at the dawn of the age of Aries. "God" "saved the first borne of Israel", Aries, the ram.

It's celestial mythology, fiction.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 252372


It's a FACT discovered by archeologists the existence of paintings of bulls and Phoenician inscriptions in some mountains, whether they are Horeb or Sinai we don't know. The very fact such bulls carvings or depictions doesn't eliminate the ancients were worshipping a constellation called Taurus. One thing doesn't eliminate the other.

What happens is the Bible use historical facts and historical names and adapts these facts to tell another DEEPER story which requires better understanding. Mayan account tells the same thing about Red Sea but you will have to bear 4 pages and be patient if you wanna learn something else:
Thread: Popul Vuh....Mayan or Hebrew Exodus (Red Sea crossing included)?

Jews didn't worship the sun, when they fell into idolatry they were forbidden and punished. So saying God was the sun as if it were Aton or Ra is incredibly nonsense. Aries the lamb corresponds to Abraham's son Israel or Jacob and not Moses and we know the similarities with Hindu myths as well cos Brahma was Abraham and the whole story of Sara being his sister-wife is also part of Hindu stories.
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Just like we have seen the RED SEA in Australia, similar events happened decades ago in Africa as shown in James Cameron documentary. The Bible won't explain -of course- the modern Latin name of the seaweeds or algie or whatever gas... just the phenomena of the river Nile turning red like blood. Even the New Testament account talking about the RED SEA (don't confuse with Nile river) uses the very same word we use for our red cells (erytro)in Greek so the whole argument about yam suph Hebrew word meaning sea of reeds which in English became red sea is ridiculous. You'll have to read that thread explaining the bitter waters at Mara and Pihakirot. Even Napoleon's army almost perished. Marine geologists have been studying similar phenomena in Suez Gulf and there's a submarine bridge which could explain what happened.

Now the real facts were probably distorted because the Bible provides details like the existence of 600.000 men crossing the opened sea. If you count women, children and the mixed company the amount of people rises up to 3 million people. I doubt 3 million people could cross the red sea in one night unless the number is a CODE meaning something else related to few families.

Egyptians mentioned the same thing, water split in two walls as if cut by knives and also the plagues and the god of the enemies (singular). The very fact Egyptologists HAD HIDDEN these steles makes evident they know the historical fact and they don't wanna make evident their glorious Egypt Empire was defeated. It would be like American books erasing the real truth about Vietnam! Egypt always did that. Ramses II erased the deeds of his dad Sethi I and attributed them to himself. Carved deeper his own lies.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Just like we have seen the RED SEA in Australia, similar events happened decades ago in Africa as shown in James Cameron documentary. The Bible won't explain -of course- the modern Latin name of the seaweeds or algie or whatever gas... just the phenomena of the river Nile turning red like blood.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34100930


Of course future generations who never saw these photos in Australia WILL DENY THE FACT:
[link to fotolog.terra.com]
[link to fotolog.terra.com]

[link to fotolog.terra.com]
[link to fotolog.terra.com]
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
OP

Your view of the Most High is what is skewed.

Of course the Most High hardened the Pharaoh's heart.

Of course the father had numerous first-born children killed.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


Serve the Almighty because he is Almighty not because he fits into your human notions of "good" or "evil".
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2013 08:37 AM
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Just like we have seen the RED SEA in Australia, similar events happened decades ago in Africa as shown in James Cameron documentary. The Bible won't explain -of course- the modern Latin name of the seaweeds or algie or whatever gas... just the phenomena of the river Nile turning red like blood.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34100930


Of course future generations who never saw these photos in Australia WILL DENY THE FACT:
[link to fotolog.terra.com]
[link to fotolog.terra.com]

[link to fotolog.terra.com]
[link to fotolog.terra.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34100930


We live in cynical times. People are willing to wipe out the idea of millions of murdered Jews during WWII which happened just decades ago.. even eliminatng the testimony of survivors still alive with their memories intact and the very marks of their cruel testimony, just because they wnna remain "skeptical".

If someone mentions the The El-Arish granite shrine with the Egyptian side of the story of the 'parting of the red sea', 2 knives and 3 waves... someone will say that is "mythological Egyptian account" or will use stupid arguments like we can't do that with symbols like saying it's wrong to say RA MSS is related with the symbol of the sun which is indeed the case and named Ra.
If Ahmose stele mentions plagues as similar as the one mentioned in the Bible and created by an unknown god (and not plural gods) I really don't care if it fits with the time of Moses because the whole history of Egypt is a mess. such a mess that even mummies at Cairo museum have names not belonging to them or confused with others. The whole idea of trying to fit historical accounts in time is absurd.

If someone finds something that resembles bones of horses or
Egyptian chariot wheels... we will say, okey that COULD be wheels or whatever else. I want someone to dig them out and with better photos and high definition resolution. That would be much more difficult to find than... let's say... discovering a huge temple with pyramids and A LA EGYPTIAN SPHINX which remained unknown during thousands of years under the water in Yonaguni island, wouldn't it?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Now, whomever had read the whole Bible from Genesis to Apocalypse with its almost 2000 pages and tiny letters divided into 2 columns...

(not Jehovah's Witnesses or other Protestant who read tons of magazines and books "helping" them to memorize their package of truth)

..., shall recognize Jeremiah and Zephaniah admitted the scribes and Jewish priests CHANGED THE LAW WITH THEIR LIES and saying "law" it means they changed the Torah or at least the 5 books of the Bible!!!!! That includes Exodus account. Now, what did they change and to what extense? We will never know! So we ought to take the things with a grain of salt... salt from the Red Sea.....

There's also another deeper meaning....
Greatest I am (OP)

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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
OP

Your view of the Most High is what is skewed.

Of course the Most High hardened the Pharaoh's heart.

Of course the father had numerous first-born children killed.

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


Serve the Almighty because he is Almighty not because he fits into your human notions of "good" or "evil".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19271799


I see. Follow the fear to the powerful one and screw the morals.

Nice way for a good God to throw you where you belong. In hell.

Regards
DL
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?

[link to www.youtube.com]

I have always had a problem with the notion that God would have hardened Pharaoh’s soft heart and pave the way for him to kill/murder the first born of Egypt. For God to do so would have been evil indeed.

Do you think that science has explained the purported miracles as natural phenomena?

From what I can see, the Jews who wrote the story did not take it literally.

[link to www.raceandhistory.com]

Should Christians recognize the O T stories as natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


all i know is that when i read psalms, i feel davids connection to god, and realize his words ring true for me.

one and the same

a child of god is a child of god
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
When I was a child,I thought it was a myth then an atheist gave me Velikovsky's "World's in Collision".
That book showed me that the events in Exodus, though natural, really happened.

Before reading "World's in Collision" though, it would be better to read the book that Velikovsky wrote first but got published second: "Ages in Chaos". This book elegantly ties in the Old Testament to the historical records of the Egyptians, Chinese, and Mayans, and the legends of the Greeks.

According to Velikovsky, Avaris/el Arish was the city of the Amelekites/Hyskos and Agag/Apop was their Pharoah.
The tale of Exodus is in the Ipawer papyrus.
The female Pharoah Hatshepshut was the Queen Hasheva/queen of Sheba and her journey to Punt was to Solomon's Jerusalem/Qadesh/al-Quds.
Hatshepsut's son Thutmosis/Shishak/Menelik conquered the King of Qadesh/Jerusalem/ al-Quds at the battle of Armageddon/Har-Meggido and stole the Ark.
Pharoah Ankhenaten was a contemporary of King Ahab and Jezebel who were his puppets, as well as Elijah and Elishah.
Elishah's patron, the great lady of Shunnam (whose son was brought back to life) was Ankenaten's governess of Shunnam, Baalat Ness (Hebrew= owner of the miracle).

My orthodox commentary on the Torah says that the Exodus miracles were caused by the comet Ra/(Nibiru?) and the Egyptians accused Moses/Mosis/Moshe of manipulating the devastation caused by the comet for political ends, but the LORD was steering the comet.
Manu-Koelbren

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02/13/2013 05:05 AM
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
My orthodox commentary on the Torah says that the Exodus miracles were caused by the comet Ra/(Nibiru?) and the Egyptians accused Moses/Mosis/Moshe of manipulating the devastation caused by the comet for political ends, but the LORD was steering the comet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21903530



I don't get this sentence, are you stating this as your personal belief?
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
Greatest I am (OP)

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02/18/2013 03:08 PM

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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?

[link to www.youtube.com]

I have always had a problem with the notion that God would have hardened Pharaoh’s soft heart and pave the way for him to kill/murder the first born of Egypt. For God to do so would have been evil indeed.

Do you think that science has explained the purported miracles as natural phenomena?

From what I can see, the Jews who wrote the story did not take it literally.

[link to www.raceandhistory.com]

Should Christians recognize the O T stories as natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


all i know is that when i read psalms, i feel davids connection to god, and realize his words ring true for me.

one and the same

a child of god is a child of god
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15013625


You feel a connection to another myth. Ok.

Regards
DL
Greatest I am (OP)

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02/18/2013 03:11 PM

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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
When I was a child,I thought it was a myth then an atheist gave me Velikovsky's "World's in Collision".
That book showed me that the events in Exodus, though natural, really happened.

Before reading "World's in Collision" though, it would be better to read the book that Velikovsky wrote first but got published second: "Ages in Chaos". This book elegantly ties in the Old Testament to the historical records of the Egyptians, Chinese, and Mayans, and the legends of the Greeks.

According to Velikovsky, Avaris/el Arish was the city of the Amelekites/Hyskos and Agag/Apop was their Pharoah.
The tale of Exodus is in the Ipawer papyrus.
The female Pharoah Hatshepshut was the Queen Hasheva/queen of Sheba and her journey to Punt was to Solomon's Jerusalem/Qadesh/al-Quds.
Hatshepsut's son Thutmosis/Shishak/Menelik conquered the King of Qadesh/Jerusalem/ al-Quds at the battle of Armageddon/Har-Meggido and stole the Ark.
Pharoah Ankhenaten was a contemporary of King Ahab and Jezebel who were his puppets, as well as Elijah and Elishah.
Elishah's patron, the great lady of Shunnam (whose son was brought back to life) was Ankenaten's governess of Shunnam, Baalat Ness (Hebrew= owner of the miracle).

My orthodox commentary on the Torah says that the Exodus miracles were caused by the comet Ra/(Nibiru?) and the Egyptians accused Moses/Mosis/Moshe of manipulating the devastation caused by the comet for political ends, but the LORD was steering the comet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21903530


Quite the mix. I just hope God was wearing his helmet.

Regards
DL
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Re: Was the Exodus natural or supernatural, fact or fiction?
I take the events that happened in the Bible as literal, real and accurately recorded/portrayed. The events that occurred like the Exodus were IMO spawned from what you could call "natural" events but interpreted today would be supernatural simply because modern science has a monopoly on the human understanding of what can and "cannot" occur.

Just because uses the natural events of the universe doesn't make them any less God's will or desire. For instance I firmly believe the great flood was caused by a very close encounter with a very large comet. The water which was enough to cover the entire land mass of the earth up to the highest mountains came from the comet's tail.

The events described in Exodus could also be explained by another encounter with a very large comet.

.

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