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Richard III - Bad News For The Queen

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:42 AM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
The discovery of Richard III once agani reminds the British public that the Plantagenets were the true Royal family of England, NOT the Windsors, a gang of Germans dumped upon the British in the 17th Century.

Isn't it time to see the Windsors kicked out and the Plantagenets restored?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33130922

Parliament decides who gets to be King.
They did: Act of Settlement 1701.

Anhoo, aren't the Godwinsons the true kings of England.
Them Plantagenets were just foreign invaders who usurped the throne.
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD


that too
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:44 AM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
*sigh* if we are going to go down that route, the Roman Catholic Church usurped the English thrown when they supported Duke William the Bastards claim, which was tenuous at best and at worse illegal under English law.

Those who support the Norman claim that King Edward promised the throne to William ignore the fact the King did not have the authority to offer the throne to anyone, not even another Saxon, the crown could only by given by birthright or by agreement of the Witan.

You only have to look at the mess that caused to see Romes fingers in the mess, what with the imposition of Canon law on Anglo-Saxon society, with the same approach used to impose Gregorian Law on the Irish thus creating a 1,000 years worth of death and destruction for all the nations on these Isles.

So if you want to go down the route that the Plantangets where rightful heirs then we go down the route the William the Bastards claim was faked by the Roman Catholic Church and all the other claims are then null, void and based on bollix.

Final thoughts, overwhelming use of force always trumps the rule of law and there is no point moaning about it..
Tess2012

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02/05/2013 11:45 AM

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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
The discovery of Richard III once agani reminds the British public that the Plantagenets were the true Royal family of England, NOT the Windsors, a gang of Germans dumped upon the British in the 17th Century.

Isn't it time to see the Windsors kicked out and the Plantagenets restored?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33130922


who alive today would be on the thrown is the Plantagenet line was still in?

or is that impossible to answer?
 Quoting: Oyster


There is a living descendant of Richard III - it washis DNA they used to confirm the skeleton's ID. His name's Michael Ibsen:

"The son of a descendant of Richard III's eldest sister was on site as what is believed to be the first ever search for the lost grave of an anointed King of England began in a city centre car park.

Canadian-born Michael Ibsen watched as archaeological experts from the University of Leicester used ground penetrating radar equipment to find the best spots to begin their search today at the car park off Greyfriars in Leicester.

His mother Joy Ibsen, who died four years ago aged 82, was a direct descendant of the King's eldest sister Anne of York.

Born in the UK, the journalist, who is the 16th generation niece of Richard III, emigrated to Canada in her 20s.

Today Mr Ibsen, a furniture maker living in London, said his mother would have been thrilled by the project.

The 55-year-old, who was born in Canada, said: "The family were entertained when she got the call several years ago from a historian claiming she was a descendant. We thought it was more of a story than anything else but as time went by it became more serious and a DNA connection to Richard's eldest sister Anne of York was found."

[link to www.huffingtonpost.co.uk]
You never know how strong you are until being strong is your only choice - Bob Marley
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:48 AM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
next question is King Harold Godwinson line traceable to today?

i am sure i can google it but i would rather hear it from our UK glpers.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:48 AM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
The House of Cerdic is the true English royal house. I doubt that there are any claimants though. They founded Wessex which is the foundation for England.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:50 AM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
the English Monarchy is one of my favorite subjects and i have much to learn.

bump
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:53 AM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
the English Monarchy is one of my favorite subjects and i have much to learn.

bump
 Quoting: Oyster


you will never find out the real truth.

too many layers of bullshit.

but yes its still interesting.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 33130922
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02/05/2013 11:54 AM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
Actually, the official "loading system" for the monarchy is...

In England...

Privy Council and the Lord Mayor of London. Once there proclaim you King, you are king as all just impediment is wiped out by ascension to the throne. But without one of these, ascension to the throne is faulty.

In Wales...

Privy Council

In Scotland...

Proclamation by the Lord Lyon King of Arms, followed by coronation on the Stone Of Scone.

Voting by Parliament simply makes the Lord Mayors's proclamation and Privy Council's vote a foregone conclusion.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:58 AM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
my grandma always told me that i am related to henry 7th.

we owned his treasure chest with items inside, but sold it to the english museum in the late 80s.

but yeah nothing to be proud about.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:59 AM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
next question is King Harold Godwinson line traceable to today?

i am sure i can google it but i would rather hear it from our UK glpers.
 Quoting: Oyster


Ah, going by Anglo-Saxon law if it can not be passed by birthright the Witan gets to decide.. it was the Witan who confirmed the crown passing to Harold Godwinson.

But even Harolds claim to the throne was not as strong as Edgar the Aetheling who as the last member of the House of Cedric and the rightful heir to the English throne, but, here is the kicker, was only 10 years old at the time, and William took him hostage..
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/05/2013 12:01 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
The Godwins...

The last Godwin fled to Scotland where he married the daughter of the King Of Scotland which is where the Scottish Stuart claim comes from.

Unfortunately, the Stuarts turned back to the Roamn Catholic faith which was theri demise. THe rightful claimant to the Stuart throne in thwe 1960's or so became a Catholic priest, and hence, did not marry. As a result of having no kids, the Stuart/Godwin claim to the throne ended.

Many have suggested that this is why Prince Charles married Diana. Diana is the direct descendent of an illegitimate child of King Charles II, a Stuart King, hence Prince William and Prince Harry now carry "Stuart" blood in them.

Even so, if the Saxe-Coberg-Gotha calim is weak AND Queen Victoria wasn't even Saxe-Coberg Gotha, and this was proved, this would leave Simon Abney Hastings in a much better position.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 12:02 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
We live in the 21st century. Monarchy is an anachronism. Why should we 'honour' someone because they slithered out from between the legs of a 'royal' or by whom their father is?
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 12:07 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
sorry i keep spelling Throne...thrown

no excuse.
 Quoting: Oyster


if the above video is correct the throne is thrown ....sorry no caps i am an american we don't beleive in that sort stuff
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 12:12 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
my grandma always told me that i am related to henry 7th.

we owned his treasure chest with items inside, but sold it to the english museum in the late 80s.

but yeah nothing to be proud about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33664716


i am related to mary queen of scots

which makes me part of the tudor linage

i don't know if i liked all that mary did; she thought she should be queen and was for a short time

but

i think queen elizabeth was a smart person and i am glad

i can say i have a bit of her in me due to my being related to queen mary


they were first cousins
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 33130922
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02/05/2013 12:22 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
Simon Abney Hastings claim to the throne is way, way better than that of Michael Ibsen.

The BIG QUESTION is the bastardy of Edward IV.

The whole point is this.

A recently discovered letter by a Bishop, confirmed to be real, confirms what has always been rumoured, that Edward IV (born 1442) was actually a bastard and not valid to become King.

The letter confirms that...

In 1441, when Edward IV was conceived when his father, Richard 3rd Duke of York, was hundreds of miles away on a battlefield.

In order for Richard, the 3rd Duke of York to have been Edward IV's father, Richard, 3rd Duke of York would have had to jump on a Cross-Channel hovercrafts and raced across France on either high-speed rail link or by a Cessna going flat out to bang his wife and then speed back to the battlefield by an Air France Concorde...in an era when roads were little more than mud tracks and riding a carthorse was cutting edge technology.

If this would not have been possible, then Edward IV must have been a :"love child" and his eldest brother would have been the rightful claimant which... puts Simon Abney Hastings on the throne.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/05/2013 12:32 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
>>>>Why should we 'honour' someone because they slithered out from between the legs of a 'royal' or by whom their father is?


...One reason is to consider the counterfactual.

The House of Lords used to be entirely hereditory.

Consider...

- The House of Lords used ot have large numbers of openly gay people whilst the elected House Of Commons had none.
- The ratio of women to men has been persistently highter than for the Commons.
- The ehtnic mix of the Lords has been persistently closer to that of the country compared with the Commons.

The hard sad fact is that, regardless what people SAY, voters always tend to vote for Middle Class, White Men with an Arts Degree, who work as either lawyers or business people.

If you have an elected head of state, you will tend to end up with some cockroach who's managed to clamber to the top of the dung pile of corruption and you WILL tend to be ruled either by a religious nutcase, an extremist, a George Bush or an Obama.

Alternatively, if you have a head of state by hereditory basis, you will have someone , effectively chosen by RANDOM SELECTION. 5ndeed, there is an argument to suggest that the best way to chose head of state, if not Government as well would be by RANDOM SELECTION, by a lottery of the whole population, but then again, that leaves the question of just hwo administers and runs the lottery.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/05/2013 12:35 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
>>>>*sigh* if we are going to go down that route, the Roman Catholic Church usurped the English thrown when they supported Duke William the Bastards claim

As I have pointed out, the Godwins claimant married into the House of Stuart whose rightful claimant in this era became a Catholic priest and died without kids, ending the lineage of any claimant to the throne by the Godwins.
kennyrules2005
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02/05/2013 12:36 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
And im related to william the conquerer through his brother. :P lots of monarchs here.dance
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 12:44 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
The Godwins...

The last Godwin fled to Scotland where he married the daughter of the King Of Scotland which is where the Scottish Stuart claim comes from.

Unfortunately, the Stuarts turned back to the Roamn Catholic faith which was theri demise. THe rightful claimant to the Stuart throne in thwe 1960's or so became a Catholic priest, and hence, did not marry. As a result of having no kids, the Stuart/Godwin claim to the throne ended.

Many have suggested that this is why Prince Charles married Diana. Diana is the direct descendent of an illegitimate child of King Charles II, a Stuart King, hence Prince William and Prince Harry now carry "Stuart" blood in them.

Even so, if the Saxe-Coberg-Gotha calim is weak AND Queen Victoria wasn't even Saxe-Coberg Gotha, and this was proved, this would leave Simon Abney Hastings in a much better position.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33130922


The Scottish Stuarts are the younger house of the Fitzalans, Lords of Sussex, Earls of Arundel (oldest extant title in England), The Earls of Arundel are still Roman Catholics.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 12:54 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
>>>>*sigh* if we are going to go down that route, the Roman Catholic Church usurped the English thrown when they supported Duke William the Bastards claim

As I have pointed out, the Godwins claimant married into the House of Stuart whose rightful claimant in this era became a Catholic priest and died without kids, ending the lineage of any claimant to the throne by the Godwins.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33130922


No, the House of Stuart are the younger house of the FitzAlans, Lords of Sussex, Earls of Arundel, who are Roman Catholic.

It wasn't until the Norman invasion that Roman Catholic Canon law was imposed on Anglo-Saxon society at the point of a sword.

BTW, the House of Wessex remained after the invasion in the form of Saint Margaret (Queen Consort) of Scotland (Princess Margaret of Wessex)
foggybottom

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02/05/2013 12:58 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
The discovery of Richard III once agani reminds the British public that the Plantagenets were the true Royal family of England, NOT the Windsors, a gang of Germans dumped upon the British in the 17th Century.

Isn't it time to see the Windsors kicked out and the Plantagenets restored?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33130922


who alive today would be on the thrown is the Plantagenet line was still in?

or is that impossible to answer?
 Quoting: Oyster


'the thrown' -- very Monty Python of you. I can just see the skit -- trebuchet casts the crowned head to the end of the field, or over the castle wall.

Well done, comrade...
Zaphod's just ziss guy, you know...
Here for the moment
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02/05/2013 01:11 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
The discovery of Richard III once agani reminds the British public that the Plantagenets were the true Royal family of England, NOT the Windsors, a gang of Germans dumped upon the British in the 17th Century.

Isn't it time to see the Windsors kicked out and the Plantagenets restored?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33130922


who alive today would be on the thrown is the Plantagenet line was still in?

or is that impossible to answer?
 Quoting: Oyster


the real king of england died recently.

here is a documentary when he was still alive.

he lives in australia and is platagenet king of eng.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33664716


Don't be so hasty for Mr. Hastings. He would only be a claimant like so many others. The bones of Richard will bring new discussion to the usurpation of the current "monarchy". I know several whom decend from many lines of Plantagenets of note, not just a single line.
Holy_Diver

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02/05/2013 01:11 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen


I mean seriously, c'mon, Royal Families in 2013?
:ritd:"You've been left on your own, like a Rainbow in the Dark" -Ronnie James Dio:ritd:
Esoteric Morgan
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02/05/2013 01:17 PM

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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
This news is very exciting. One of our lines goes back to Joan Beaufort, dsughter of John of Gaunt, son of Edward II, and most likely beyond.

Joan was Richard's grandmother.

cool2
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:22 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
The discovery of Richard III once agani reminds the British public that the Plantagenets were the true Royal family of England, NOT the Windsors, a gang of Germans dumped upon the British in the 17th Century.

Isn't it time to see the Windsors kicked out and the Plantagenets restored?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33130922


who alive today would be on the thrown is the Plantagenet line was still in?

or is that impossible to answer?
 Quoting: Oyster


the real king of england died recently.

here is a documentary when he was still alive.

he lives in australia and is platagenet king of eng.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33664716


That was tremendously informative and entertaining!

I have always gotten turned around and lost when it came to English history -
The approach taken here should have confounded me further but it actually put into perspective the historical highlights i am aware of.

In a sense, it was a refresher on the royal bloodlines and who the central characters were/are.

What a charming family too, glad to hear that they were not at all bothered by what had been taken from them.
Thank you for sharing this.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:24 PM
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I mean seriously, c'mon, Royal Families in 2013?
 Quoting: Holy_Diver


alot of people find it interesting.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28069942
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02/05/2013 01:25 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
Dotti.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:27 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
The french line is the true monarchy back to when Prince Philip the 4th stole the throne from Dotti, Captain of the Archers and thus a Templar.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:30 PM
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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
Dotti was truly a descendant of Charlemagne (King Charles the 1st) who was a descendant of Mary and Jesus. This is the return to the kingdom of Christ described in the bible.
Chrit

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02/05/2013 01:31 PM

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Re: Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
I'm still mad about Llywelyn, so says the Welsh guy.
I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw.

We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three.

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