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Message Subject Richard III - Bad News For The Queen
Poster Handle Anonymous Coward
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I'm still mad about Llywelyn, so says the Welsh guy.
 Quoting: Chrit

Why? he sided with the English, Scottish Marches and Welsh Marches rebels fighting the crown.. and WE the English, Scottish and Welsh rebels lost against the Crowns of Europe and Roman Catholic Church.

Longshanks was taken Prisoner after the battle of Lewes, at which point llywelyn and De Monford came to an accord to bring peace between our nations, and make Llywelyn Prince of Wales.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

You only have to look at who was taken Prisoner at Lewes to know what the rebels where fighting against, along with Longshanks, the rebels took prisoner the King of the Romans, King Henry III, and even the Bruces where taken prisoner at the Battle of Lewes, while Clans like Sinclair fled back to Scotland.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Interestingly, or not the rebels fought against the Crown in the true colours of these Isles, a white cross on a Red field.

And only through treachery, Longshanks disguising his troops in the true colours (white cross on a red field) did Longshanks sneak up on the rebels at Evesham.

The slaughter at Evesham by Longshanks was followed by the slaughter of the Welsh and slaughter of the Scots..

I hope your not one of those people who likes to see history out of glasses that are tinged with "evil English"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33649970

I was referring to Llywelyn the last.

Edward wanted Llywelyn “the last” to surrender Wales where upon Llywelyn “the last” refused and went to rally the army. He was then killed in strange circumstances. The Welsh now without a leader to rally around succumbed one by one to annexation and forcible conscription of the Welsh bowman. We were made slaves to the crown on pain of death.

And no "evil English" I know my family tree back over 7 generations to where my family was knighted. But still not impressed with how many deals the crown made with no intention to ever keep. But then again that is why they are still in power.

There was after all a reason my family left England in 1776 and fought for the independence of the United States.

 Quoting: Chrit

I was also referring to Llywelyn the last :) each nation on these isles is presented as a separate narrative when in reality it is a deeply linked narrative that runs back to the Roman Invasion.

Taking the Battle Lewes as a starting point for Llywelyn (you can pick other times) the English/Scottish/Welsh rebels fought the English/Scottish Crowns.. people like the Bruces, and the Sinclairs fought alongside the English Crown, indeed the Bruce clan at the time had Lordship over parts of Sussex (Southern England)

However Llywelyn the last sided with the rebels, to my mind that always sealed the fate of the Welsh..

At Lewes, the Crown of England fell to the rebels, so England was technically without a King and under the De Facto rule of Simon De Montford.. it was also the first time in Europe a Parliament was directed elected, this was from the Mise (treaty) of Lewes.. De Montford was quite radical in the changes he wanted vis-a-vis democracy, which is also what sealed his and the rebels fates.

De Montford, the leading rebel made a deal with Llewellyn the Last known as the "Treaty of Pipton" in which De Monford got Llewellyns support and in return Llewellyn was recognised (for want of a better word) as Prince and "overlord" of Wales, he was also offered the hand of Eleanor de Montford, a bond that was to create issues for Wales later on.

In this narrative we have English/Scottish/Welsh rebels on one side, and the Crowns of Europe overseen by Rome on the other, by siding with the rebels Llywelyn the last made some powerful enemies.

The payback to the peoples of these Isles for rebellion has always been severe, Edwards treachery and slaughter at Evesham in England was only a taste of what was to come from Longshanks, and we all know the issues that has caused down the centuries..

But the narrative has been changed to isolate what happened to the English, to the Welsh, and to the Scottish and then turned so we end up against each other :(

Together we are stronger, but consistently since the Great Conspiracy in 367AD they (Rome) have sought to keep us divided and at each others throats, which is where a little of my sadness comes from, as when ever I speak like this, when I try to join the dots that show the "evil English" narrative points at the wrong group I generally get shot down.. So I now simply expect that particular narrative to appear when ever I mention these things (sorry about that :) )

But this really all does go back to the Great Conspiracy (367AD).. where the people of these Isles, and the Saxons joined together to drive out the Romans..

And it is actually more than that, as that was also the start of the ongoing conflict between the Christian Church on these Isles and the Christian Church of Rome, and the battle over the ideal of "free will"

Rome never fully regained control of these Isles or crushed that notion of "freedom of will" during the period of the Anglo-Saxons, well, not until they supported the Norman invasion of England in 1066AD and the imposition of Cannon law on these Isles thus crushing "free will", well almost.. it keeps reappearing.. it must be something in the water :)

Rome authorised a similar invasion of Ireland not long after which imposed Gregorian Law on the Irish.. again that goes back to the conflict between the Christian Church of Rome and the Christian Church on these Isles..

Simply put Rome (in the Guise of St Germanus of Auxere and other) came to these Isles to eradicate this Christian belief in free will. Some of the leaders where exiled to Ireland under the watchful eye of Palladius, the first Bishop of Ireland, but in doing so all Rome did was to turn Pelagianism into Celtic Christianity.

No wonder they wanted to impose Gregorian law on the Irish..

I guess you could say it boils down to Divine right of the Elite vs the free will of the people... no wonder your family went to America..

It is a shame the real narratives are messed up now, and the divide between the nations on these Isles impossible to reconcile.

lets hope they don't do the same thing to America.. although sitting here, it seems they are working on it :(
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