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Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?

 
Useless Cookie Eater

User ID: 29696048
United States
02/05/2013 08:01 PM

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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
It seems most people posting don't want a real discussion about the car industry, they just want to blame someone for their problems. In a little more than ten years, all cars will get 55mpg and trucks will get 35mpg or better. What mpg does your current car/truck get? What is the cost to fill your tank not for a week, but for a YEAR? What was the price of gas 10 years ago versus what do you think it will be 10 years from now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1612386


At what cost?
...making them thin as cardboard?
...making UBER complicated vehicles that cost a FORTUNE to service?

You are delusional.

norespect padroom
10-DUDE

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02/05/2013 08:15 PM
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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
Your battery price is too high, to the poster two abone me. A whole car conversion only costas 5 grand, and there are no maintenace costs for an EV, so you could save for the batts.
 Quoting: Adamic Seed nli 14200538


No maintenance costs? Let's see, the last time one of my cars was in the shop, it needed a plug on the automatic transmission. That's something that might be saved, does an EV use a transmission with multiple gears?
I also will need brakes and tires. EVs have both of those don't they? But the brakes are regenerative. Does that mean more maintenance cost or less?

I really want to know, because I am waiting for EV tech to get a bit cheaper, and in maybe 10 more years (I hope to get that much out of my existing cars) I'll get an EV.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33389306


Yes, it's called a continuously variable transmission and has an infinite number of gear ratios. In other words, it's a no maintenance transmission.



Also, not sure if the Leaf has it, but the Prius has an engine brake so your brakes should last longer. Cost of ownership on a hybrid is cheaper on hybrids than a gas vehicle.
 Quoting: 10-DUDE


I guess the CVT is needed because the electric motor really only runs at one speed, instead of a range of RPM's like an internal combustion engine.

CVT is not necessarily maintenance free, it's a mechanical system with parts that can wear and break. It's generally considered a light-duty system iirc. I'd bet on the German transmission in my Chrysler to last longer than a CVT.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33389306



Maintenance and something breaking are two separate things. Nissan is the only company that I know that has had any problems with their CVT's, but that was mostly on the first generation CVT's they put in the Murano.


Also, let me know what you want to bet? There are countless Prius taxi driver's in the my region with well over 300,000 miles that have had no problem with their battery system and CVT.

Last Edited by 10-DUDE on 02/05/2013 08:20 PM
Meow
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1612386
United States
02/05/2013 08:31 PM
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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
It seems most people posting don't want a real discussion about the car industry, they just want to blame someone for their problems. In a little more than ten years, all cars will get 55mpg and trucks will get 35mpg or better. What mpg does your current car/truck get? What is the cost to fill your tank not for a week, but for a YEAR? What was the price of gas 10 years ago versus what do you think it will be 10 years from now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1612386


At what cost?
...making them thin as cardboard?
...making UBER complicated vehicles that cost a FORTUNE to service?

You are delusional.

norespect :padroom:
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


Your vehicle is already complex. Do you think you could build one from scratch? A modern car already has On Board Diagnostics[ODBII] and most are already drive by wire. Manufacturers are increasing the amount of Ultra High Strength Steels[UHSS] and alternatives to lower weight. Have you seen a car that can park/brake itself yet? The costs come down as the tech progresses. Air conditioning/Anti-lock brakes/fuel injection/auto trans/power anything were once expensive and I bet most posting here have on their ride.
Frater

User ID: 1193197
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02/05/2013 08:34 PM

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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
All the electricity we can ever use, all the the fuel we can use for cars and diesels at 0 net carbon footprint and all the fresh desalinated water we can ever use. We can even use it to "burn up" all the old nuke waste garbage/poison.

All in one fell swoop.

And it's inherently safe!



What more need I say?

Frater

Last Edited by Frater on 02/05/2013 08:35 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 08:38 PM
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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
At this point in time, the bottom line is that the auto manufacturers need to improve their fuel efficiency across their product range.

In order to meet the EPA's CAFE requirement of 54.5mpg by 2025, they have to improve the fuel economy of all of their vehicles (not just make a few models that get good fuel economy). This will involve improving the efficiency of internal combustion engines, using alternative fuels (LNG, hydrogen, biodiesel), making vehicles lighter (carbon fiber, composites), and engineering vehicles to move without burning gasoline/diesel (hybrids).

The PEV (plug-in electric vehicle) has some major problems to overcome (range, infrastructure, and charging time). So, the easier and more logical route is to go with what is working right now and improve it. PEVs won't go away, but manufacturers aren't going to spend the money on R&D, when 1) the technology and infrastructure aren't anywhere near ready and 2) the market isn't ready to buy vehicles this expensive with such limitations.

This isn't an oil industry conspiracy. It's just the auto manufacturers trying to figure out what makes the best business sense to meet the CAFE standards.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 08:48 PM
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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
I forgot to mention that it's not just a goal for 2025; the auto industry needs to meet increased fuel efficiency targets in 2016 and 2021.

Here's a very good article on the subject.

[link to www.caranddriver.com]
Useless Cookie Eater

User ID: 29696048
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02/05/2013 08:50 PM

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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
It seems most people posting don't want a real discussion about the car industry, they just want to blame someone for their problems. In a little more than ten years, all cars will get 55mpg and trucks will get 35mpg or better. What mpg does your current car/truck get? What is the cost to fill your tank not for a week, but for a YEAR? What was the price of gas 10 years ago versus what do you think it will be 10 years from now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1612386


At what cost?
...making them thin as cardboard?
...making UBER complicated vehicles that cost a FORTUNE to service?

You are delusional.

norespect padroom
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


Your vehicle is already complex. Do you think you could build one from scratch? A modern car already has On Board Diagnostics[ODBII] and most are already drive by wire. Manufacturers are increasing the amount of Ultra High Strength Steels[UHSS] and alternatives to lower weight. Have you seen a car that can park/brake itself yet? The costs come down as the tech progresses. Air conditioning/Anti-lock brakes/fuel injection/auto trans/power anything were once expensive and I bet most posting here have on their ride.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1612386


It's not about building one you moran crazy....it's about serviceability and cost.
Derp! tard

15K for a battery for a Nissan Leaf???

...and good luck trying to service your own car if it's a Hybrid piece of crap.

...nor does anyone want to drive a CARDBOARD DEATHTRAP.


clues

Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 02/05/2013 08:55 PM
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 09:51 PM
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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
If electric cars suck so much and natural gas cars are so great, then why aren't our highways full of natural gas cars?

Sorry, the truth is that neither suck. Electric cars are better than natural gas cars and natural gas cars are better than ones running on dirty oil - neither one is being produced in mass numbers because the oil companies have a fucking monopoly on infrastructure and excessive influence over auto company decisions on what to produce.

Batteries get cheaper and increase in capacity every year. The newest tech is most definitely recyclable.

Look at the radio control hobby, what do you see? Yea, you see that brushless motors powered by the latest battery tech has all but made internal combustion designed rc cars, planes, and helicopters extinct.

You want the fastest rc car? It's going to be electric. Fastest plane - well, outside of dynamic slope gliders, it's electric powered planes, most insane and powerful helicopters are electric also.

Electric cars, planes, and helicopters are far easier to maintain - fewer drivetrain parts, the motors last practically for ever, and you don't have to spend time trying to get a stupid IC engine to turn over.

Also, let's talk about hydrogen as an alternative - sorry, it's bullshit. You have to use energy to produce the hydrogen. Usually electricity or natural gas. You blow your efficiency in using the electricity or natural gas to produce hydrogen. In the end, you are better off just using the electricity or natural gas to directly power a vehicle.

Electricity is the only energy we get from renewable sources - damns, solar, and wind.

You can't pull oil, natural gas, or fucking hydrogen off a windmill or other renewable source.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33389306
United States
02/06/2013 12:14 PM
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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
The article is correct. The range of most EVs is too small to be practical for anyone other than a city driver. Extended range hybrids are what the industry is moving to. Natural gas and propane are what most cars will run on in the near future. Natural gas and propane are forms of
Hydrogen and are easier and cheaper to produce.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1612386


The last sentence is obviously retarded enough to suggest that the rest is retarded too. Hydrogen is H. Natgas (methane) is CH4. Propane is C3H8. The latter two include hydrogen but are not just forms of it.

What about city drivers? I don't take long trips very often, and I could even rent a car for those. But I do a lot of trips to the train station or shopping. I am a local driver, we are legion.

50 miles is enough range to be useful for me. 25 miles is not enough.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33389306
United States
02/06/2013 12:20 PM
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Re: Toyota and Nissan Shift From Electric Vehicles; Death Knell for Chevy Volt?
It seems most people posting don't want a real discussion about the car industry, they just want to blame someone for their problems. In a little more than ten years, all cars will get 55mpg and trucks will get 35mpg or better. What mpg does your current car/truck get? What is the cost to fill your tank not for a week, but for a YEAR? What was the price of gas 10 years ago versus what do you think it will be 10 years from now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1612386


This means that, due to CAFE standards, in 10 years it will be mega expensive to get an internal combustion car that will protect you decently and have any acceleration. We're down to short strokes regarding improvements in the IC engine, and further emission requirements come at a tradeoff for other things like gas mileage.

This will drive me to an electric car. If I'm going to drive a tinny box anyway, let it be an electric one. At least I can have the cool feeling of driving a golf cart with no engine noise.

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