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Is gravity faster than light?

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 10:23 PM
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Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 10:26 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Dark Stranger
User ID: 3003754
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02/05/2013 10:28 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
9.8 M/S is the speed of gravity, on this celestial body

light is like... way faster.

I"vE got a question for ya,
If all the cows stopped farting would we solve global warming?

or, lemme put it like this:

what if all the water on earth froze, would the fish learn how to ice-skate?
chowan

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02/05/2013 10:31 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
9.8 M/S is the speed of gravity, on this celestial body

light is like... way faster.

I"vE got a question for ya,
If all the cows stopped farting would we solve global warming?

or, lemme put it like this:

what if all the water on earth froze, would the fish learn how to ice-skate?
 Quoting: Dark Stranger 3003754


9.8 m/s is not the speed of gravity dummy

9.8 m/s/s is the acceleration due to gravity

OP asks or poses a very interesting question
sheell be right mate
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 10:40 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
I read a novel recently, called Metaplanetary by Tony Daniel, which turned out to be a pretty excellent and somewhat astounding sci fi.

In this novel, it is postulated that the reason he have not found the "particle" responsible for the force of gravity is because it travels in the 4th dimension.. that is to say, time, and that the 'gravity' effect is due to matter being slightly pulled while that happens.

This actually makes a certain amount of sense, and I wouldn't be surprised if we one day learned that gravity indeed did emanate from something traveling in ways we are not equipped to perceive, either in time, or even one of those other possible dimensions theorized to exist.

(* note: dimension does not mean "some other place", just a direction, other than up/down, left/right, back/forth, and forward-in-time/backward-in-time )
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 10:41 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
This actually makes a certain amount of sense

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 904314


Err forgot to add that this means that although it is not "faster than light", since it would be traveling through some other directional dimension, it might appear to travel faster than light to our 4 dimension based senses!
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 10:42 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


Now that you mention the planets movement, it's not just light and temperature that would change when the sun goes, wouldn't we be dealing with massive tsunamis and earthquakes from the sudden stop of movement?
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 10:44 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
If gravity only worked at lightspeed, the Earth would fly out of its orbit since we are 8 light minutes away from the Sun.

The action at a distance part is what proves the "scientists" don't have a clue as to what gravity really is. Their THEORIES merely explain what gravity DOES, not how or why it does it. Observations do not agree with their theories, hence the continual invention of fantasies like black holes and magic fairy dust called dark matter.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 10:45 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
If the sun were to suddenly vanish, perhaps the effects would be immediately noticeable in that spacetime would cease to be bent in that location and would "spring" back into place, maybe causing all sorts of ripply behaviors..

After all, the entire universe apparently sprang into being at speeds immeasurably faster than light-speed!
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 10:47 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
The action at a distance part is what proves the "scientists" don't have a clue as to what gravity really is. Their THEORIES merely explain what gravity DOES, not how or why it does it. Observations do not agree with their theories, hence the continual invention of fantasies like black holes and magic fairy dust called dark matter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32604708


Blackholes are not theoretical, we observe them in action pretty often these days!

Dark matter is not theoretical, they have even mapped out the local structure of dark matter.

Dark energy IS theoretical, on the other hand, postulated as an explanation as to why the universe hasn't collapsed under it's own gravity by now heh

And.. gravity is known to be unknown, no surprise there. It's the one 'natural' force we haven't figured out yet.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 10:56 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Why are we looking for answers in thing's way far away when we have more major problems right here in front of us?
vivaldi
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02/05/2013 11:02 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Hard to say, as there is no consensus on which quantum gravity model is the correct one.

I believe Gravity is an emergent effect, caused by the discrete packets of our spatial fabric expanding at different rates. This would involve dense parts expanding slower than others. (giving the impression that space on the whole is expanding, but with less dense regions being pushed towards the denser regions)

This is similar to how atmospheric wind is an emergent effect caused by air pressure differentials, which in turn is just the average velocity of individual air molecules.

An Isobar on a weather map shows a region of equal air pressure, but it is meaningless in the context of an individual air molecule.

Similarly, I believe that an equipotential in a gravitational field is meaningless in the context of an individual expanding packet of space.

If this model is correct, then the 'speed' of gravity would be determined by the rate at which individual packets of space can expand against their neighbors.

This would of course be the speed of light.

My 2 cents anyway.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:02 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Why are we looking for answers in thing's way far away when we have more major problems right here in front of us?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1750328


By examining the universe at large, they can make theories and predictions that can aide them in inventing new and useful technologies for us ground pounders.

A direct example of this: the Transistors in most of our electronics.

How did they come up with quantum mechanics? Ultimately, by observing the universe!
IO
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02/05/2013 11:03 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Gravity is the force that CREATES light.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:16 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
speed of light = 186,000 miles per second. Now that's pretty fast.

But, they theorize that not even light can escape the gravitational pull of a black hole so...

So if light cannot escape a massive force of gravity, then gravity wins???

Regardless, the speed of thought trumps both. While traveling in your astral body, just the thought of a location, no matter how far away and BAM!! you're there, instantly.
Parabola

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02/05/2013 11:29 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


I don't know. But great thread and question OP, and good food for thought in the responses too. hf


I read a novel recently, called Metaplanetary by Tony Daniel, which turned out to be a pretty excellent and somewhat astounding sci fi.

In this novel, it is postulated that the reason he have not found the "particle" responsible for the force of gravity is because it travels in the 4th dimension.. that is to say, time, and that the 'gravity' effect is due to matter being slightly pulled while that happens.

This actually makes a certain amount of sense, and I wouldn't be surprised if we one day learned that gravity indeed did emanate from something traveling in ways we are not equipped to perceive, either in time, or even one of those other possible dimensions theorized to exist.

(* note: dimension does not mean "some other place", just a direction, other than up/down, left/right, back/forth, and forward-in-time/backward-in-time )
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 904314


Thanks for the reference!

This has me very curious..

"Does gravity act instantly or at c?"
[link to www.sciforums.com]

Last Edited by Parabola on 02/05/2013 11:30 PM
IO
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02/05/2013 11:41 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
The standards and measurements earth scientists use are GEOCENTRIC, based on earths orbital relation to sol.
Try defining speed of light, gravity or anything without using seconds, minutes, etc.
What is a second on Mars.

True science is based on more elemental standards of time.
Understanding interstellar technology requires this evolution
Parabola

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02/05/2013 11:47 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
"The most amazing thing I was taught as a graduate student of celestial mechanics at Yale in the 1960s was that all gravitational interactions between bodies in all dynamical systems had to be taken as instantaneous. This seemed unacceptable on two counts. In the first place, it seemed to be a form of “action at a distance”. Perhaps no one has so elegantly expressed the objection to such a concept better than Sir Isaac Newton: “That one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum, without the mediation of any thing else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to the other, is to me so great an absurdity, that I believe no man who has in philosophical matters a competent faculty of thinking, can ever fall into it.” (See Hoffman, 1983.) But mediation requires propagation, and finite bodies should be incapable of propagation at infinite speeds since that would require infinite energy. So instantaneous gravity seemed to have an element of magic to it..."

[link to www.metaresearch.org]

..a very good question indeed.. hf
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 11:57 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
If something continued to accelerate at 9 m/s/s due to gravity... Then it would take 384.951111111 days for it to reach the speed of light... So after 385 days it would be moving faster
vivaldi
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02/08/2013 07:08 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Hard to say, as there is no consensus on which quantum gravity model is the correct one.

I believe Gravity is an emergent effect, caused by the discrete packets of our spatial fabric expanding at different rates. This would involve dense parts expanding slower than others. (giving the impression that space on the whole is expanding, but with less dense regions being pushed towards the denser regions)

This is similar to how atmospheric wind is an emergent effect caused by air pressure differentials, which in turn is just the average velocity of individual air molecules.

An Isobar on a weather map shows a region of equal air pressure, but it is meaningless in the context of an individual air molecule.

Similarly, I believe that an equipotential in a gravitational field is meaningless in the context of an individual expanding packet of space.

If this model is correct, then the 'speed' of gravity would be determined by the rate at which individual packets of space can expand against their neighbors.

This would of course be the speed of light.

My 2 cents anyway.
 Quoting: vivaldi 5140030
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 07:25 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Jump off a building with a laser in your hand and see what hits the ground first.
 Quoting: Open Your Eyes


He isn't talking acceleration due to gravity.

He means the time it takes for gravitational forces from one object to start affecting another.

Eg, Would planets stop orbiting a star instantaneously if the star were to suddenly vanish?
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 07:34 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
speed of light = 186,000 miles per second. Now that's pretty fast.

But, they theorize that not even light can escape the gravitational pull of a black hole so...

So if light cannot escape a massive force of gravity, then gravity wins???

Regardless, the speed of thought trumps both. While traveling in your astral body, just the thought of a location, no matter how far away and BAM!! you're there, instantly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25716930


I've often wondered that very thing! I used to wonder if maybe black holes were one of the brightest objects we could see, plausibly, but can not due to light not being able to escape gravity...which made me wonder if gravity can somehow trap the light, wouldn't it be able to outrun it, somehow?

I don't know enough hard science to do any calculations, and I probably ignored some major enormous law, but, oh well. Great thread! hf
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 07:38 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Good question. Which way does gravity travel? it might be saying, its pushing the light or sucking it into a wormhole like you are led to believe but even then you may have to account for a force that isnt even directly travelling in the light or involved how you may think. This might make you laugh and its for jokes but what if our mouth and ass has a different purpose. Its all there because we need it to be living here but have you ever thought, can pure light travel through your throat and out your ass like an event horizon lol. What if the light, we do truly hold inside and the saying do you think the sun shines out your ass has its origin. We are wormholes meeting and co existing. This could mean does gravity or the universe hold your inner being too. Its simple. I dont think we have our individual universes but I guess if we ever do meet again we should all be less selfish from the beginning. Spread the love.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 07:40 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Right now it feels to me that gravity is instant or timeless. Although its force or influence does weaken over distance. I could be way of of course.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 07:50 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Yes.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 07:55 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Gravity is the force that I exert on dark energy to attract It to My Self, in turn, the attractive force on dark matter, and, in turn, the attractive force I exert of visible energy, and, finally, the attractive force I exert on visible matter.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 08:12 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
very interesting question

if this IS the case, would the gravitational effects of say the Betelgeuse supernova be felt way before the light of it gets here?
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 08:15 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
If something continued to accelerate at 9 m/s/s due to gravity... Then it would take 384.951111111 days for it to reach the speed of light... So after 385 days it would be moving faster
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24904482


Don't forget, terminal velocity bro.
WISE GUY

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02/08/2013 08:28 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
speed of light = 186,000 miles per second. Now that's pretty fast.

But, they theorize that not even light can escape the gravitational pull of a black hole so...

So if light cannot escape a massive force of gravity, then gravity wins???

Regardless, the speed of thought trumps both. While traveling in your astral body, just the thought of a location, no matter how far away and BAM!! you're there, instantly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25716930


I've often wondered that very thing! I used to wonder if maybe black holes were one of the brightest objects we could see, plausibly, but can not due to light not being able to escape gravity...which made me wonder if gravity can somehow trap the light, wouldn't it be able to outrun it, somehow?

I don't know enough hard science to do any calculations, and I probably ignored some major enormous law, but, oh well. Great thread! hf
 Quoting: Junkyard Lily


You are correct, gravitational pull must be faster. If light can not escape it.
JAA
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 08:30 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
The speed of gravity is the same as light. Light controls gravity its no secret to some people.



Watch all 3 parts of this and you will learn a lot.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 08:36 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Because Gravity is not a wave or particle, it does not travel. There for it can't travel faster than light.
It just simply 'is'.

Tis a mystery still being figured out.