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Is gravity faster than light?

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 09:11 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
bump
Seer777
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02/08/2013 09:16 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Is there something that moves faster than gravity or light?

I'm betting Yes.
 Quoting: NewThor


Consciousness...


ImaginationBubbl

:)
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Opie
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02/08/2013 09:25 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
The speed of light is = to the speed of darkness. Now gravity has no speed limit.
I'm May

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02/08/2013 09:28 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Since gravity is relative to the body that creates the force, I suppose it would be possible for something to be massive enough to create a gravitational field where the acceleration due to gravity could exceed the speed of light, but that's pretty theoretical.
And I Am
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Does gravity exist to all things or is there maybe one that doesnt experience gravity for they omit it. When we say God could live outside the universe wouldnt it be that way seeing as we would be feeling the omitted energy
I'm May

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02/08/2013 09:29 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Since gravity is relative to the body that creates the force, I suppose it would be possible for something to be massive enough to create a gravitational field where the acceleration due to gravity could exceed the speed of light, but that's pretty theoretical.
 Quoting: I'm May


Actually, that's a black hole...something so dense and massive that even light can't escape.
And I Am
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 09:47 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
i theorize that gravity is much like a fabric of space, its force measured on earth as 9.8m/s/s or 32ft/s/s here in the states, is a measure of acceleration not speed of reaction. 32 ft/s/s is earths pull on all the atoms of the earth communicatively pulling on all atoms of the surrounding space, each atom of an apple for instance. the gravity can not be measured in speed for it is constant. per the law of conservation of mass matter can neither be created or destroyed, so there is no way that the sun could just dissapear with out become pure energy, and the with mass of the sun and energy= mass x speed of light, it would be a shock wave not the light to turn out. but for argument sake lets say the sun spontaneously exploded. the pull of the mass of the sun would instantly cease to pull on earth before the shock wave reached earth. you probably wouldnt feel it however. as i stated the force of gravity we feel on earth is not from the sun, and the force is not communicative, other wise the force acceleration on earth at night would be different than during the say when the sun is either behind or above the earth complementing or opposing earths gravity. but like a rock leaving a sling, its motion will continue in the direction( out of space and away from the relevant location of previous star) untill it is acted upon by an outside force. since the other planets would be similarly effected our distance relative to them would also increase near instantly. the only theroretical measure of speed i could fathom would be the rate at which the matter of the sun could be turned in to energy, thus eliminating the force of pull. the earth would not accelerate in this instant, but its speed would continue only straight no longer pulled. if you have a electrical circuit and you break the connection, the electricity immediatly stops flowing everywhere all its path, the is no bunching up of electrons ,continous trickel till the line is empty.least thats what i think, but who the heck am i.yoda
Containment
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02/08/2013 09:50 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
A black hole contains light that cannot escape, and if it has no other port of escape, than with the right material, one could capture light in a container. ('One' is used rather loosely here-lol).

Or dark matter for that instance.

And if the black hole does port to another locale (wormhole) then wouldn't an exit for all the light look just like a star or a one sided light cone? (like flashlight or spot).

Time and gravity is tied, for one ceases without the other.

Gravity is like a singular polar field, or non duality energy in one direction.

By the way, damn good question...My head is turning...

To answer that thought - how do you know there is time where there is no gravity?

i have to stop now, ... very good thread everyone, i need not say.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 09:59 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Gravity is spacetime geometry. It has no speed.

It is like asking....how fast is a circle?
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 10:03 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


gravity can be faster then light in a black hole it can suck up light.


they were forced to step down

Antonio Ereditato stepped down as chief of the OPERA experiment. Dario Autiero another OPERA leader stepped down as well.

[link to latimesblogs.latimes.com]

this is their reason they give.

there (may) have been communication problems between a GPS unit and the computer that clocked the neutrinos' speeds.

why did two people step down i bet in a few months or a year these two men will die of some thing keep this. This is huge!


There was widespread skepticism when the OPERA findings were first revealed, and even the leaders of the experiment insisted that they were not announcing a discovery but simply recording measurements
((they had made and carefully checked))
[link to www.csmonitor.com]

two things that it could be anti neutrinos or neutrinos coming from the sun.


hawking radiaion
In 1975, Stephen Hawking and Jacob Bekenstein showed that black holes should slowly radiate away energy
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
-----------------------------------------------------------
this is what john titor said

Miniaturizing the clocks and sensors, creating clever ways to vent x-rays and creating a computer system dependable enough
to calculate the changes required to the field were the main challenges. There are no missing pieces, just missing energy
levels and a few very interesting subatomic particles

he also said some thing about supersymmetric particels E8 x E8, N=7. the only thing i could find is this

[link to web.physics.ucsb.edu]

this is a must read

It is worthwhile to note that the E8 x E8 Heterotic string has historically been considered to be the most promising string theory for describing the physics beyond the Standard Model. It was discovered in 1987 by Gross, Harvey, Martinec, and Rohm and for a long time it was thought to be the only string theory relevant for describing our universe. This is because the SU(3) x SU(2) x U(1) gauge group of the standard model can fit quite nicely within one of the E8 gauge groups. The matter under the other E8 would not interact except through gravity, and might provide a answer to the Dark Matter problem in astrophysics. Due to our lack of a full understanding of string theory, answers to questions such as how is supersymmetry broken and why are there only 3 generations of particles in the Standard Model have remained unanswered. Most of these questions are related to the issue of compactification (discussed on the next page). What we have learned is that string theory contains all the essential elements to be a successful unified theory of particle interactions, and it is virtually the only candidate which does so. However, we don't yet know how these elements specifically come together to describe the physics that we currently observe.


could this be related to obama or bush Our worldline and his are off by 8 years and some things have or havent happend or changed. I think hes real why not?

Are you here now to observe the results of the presidential election?
I would use the word "elections" a bit cautiously. Perhaps it's easier now to see a civil war in your future?
-----------------------------------------------------------
YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY I THINK HE IS THE REAL DEAL HE SAID THIS BACK IN 2000

I am curious… will anyone be upset if Florida's votes are not counted in the Electoral College because of the current "confusion"?

!!((Thousands of African Americans were harassed and denied the right to vote))!!

on election day, in a throwback to the good ol' days of Jim Crowe. "Voters were turned away from the polls because their race didn't match the election supervisor's records. But race isn't even on our identification cards, so why would this be an issue at all?" asked Adora Obi Nweze, President of the Florida NAACP. "I personally had a problem at the polls - I had to be very insistent that I could vote. That happened to me, and I consider myself pretty informed." If even the head of the Florida NAACP was harassed, what about all the ordinary blacks who went to the polls on election day? Police checkpoints were setup to "discourage" black voters from coming out to the polls and poll workers refused to help many black and Haitian voters, many of them voting for the first time. Florida began to enforce a law passed in 1868 that bars felons from voting. How many black people were denied the right to vote for crimes like drug possession - a crime which Clinton, Gore and Bush are all guilty of?

[link to planetanarchy.net]


-----------------------------------------------------------

The LHC will operate at 4 TeV per beam until the end of 2012, 0.5 TeV higher than 2010 and 2011. It will then go into shutdown for 20 months for upgrades to allow full energy operation (7 TeV per beam), with reopening planned for late 2014
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

it didnt say this befor it said it was going to stay at 3.5 tev per beam at the end of 2012
Seer777
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02/08/2013 10:07 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Is there something that moves faster than gravity or light?

I'm betting Yes.
 Quoting: NewThor


Consciousness...


ImaginationBubbl

:)
 Quoting: Seer777


Beautiful!!

blwkss
 Quoting: Open Your Eyes


Thanks.

You know what they say...brevity is the soul of wit.

wink


It might be interesting to consider, that instead of 'black holes' devouring light, that they may instead, do the opposite...


phi

:)

Last Edited by Seer777 on 02/08/2013 10:08 PM
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 10:12 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
So lightning strikes and then makes a sound but where did noise come from. Its a product of light so if you dont see it you dont hear it? but we can asume there is sound without us hearing it but we cant answer if there is anyway to find out if there is a way or place the sound of the universe would dissapear. If you hum a tune in your mind is it a sound? None of us can prove we can hear our mind even though we will all say we do.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 10:14 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


It wouldn't stop....the "dent" in spacetime that the sun's matter causes would be gone and the earth would continue on at the same speed in a straight line rather than following the curvature of spacetime that the sun causes.
Rinty

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02/08/2013 10:26 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
"The most amazing thing I was taught as a graduate student of celestial mechanics at Yale in the 1960s was that all gravitational interactions between bodies in all dynamical systems had to be taken as instantaneous. This seemed unacceptable on two counts. In the first place, it seemed to be a form of “action at a distance”. Perhaps no one has so elegantly expressed the objection to such a concept better than Sir Isaac Newton: “That one body may act upon another at a distance through a vacuum, without the mediation of any thing else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to the other, is to me so great an absurdity, that I believe no man who has in philosophical matters a competent faculty of thinking, can ever fall into it.” (See Hoffman, 1983.) But mediation requires propagation, and finite bodies should be incapable of propagation at infinite speeds since that would require infinite energy. So instantaneous gravity seemed to have an element of magic to it..."

[link to www.metaresearch.org]

..a very good question indeed.. hf
 Quoting: Parabola

Very thoughtful post. I could say something like: Gravity is a force. It does not have a object that travels in the manner that light has a photon. Newtons law is a mathematical measurement of the 'rate' that the force decreases in relation to distance. Decrease in rate of force is not a measurement of speed.
But...., I am not happy with my answer. Not too bad, but I am not happy with it. There seems to be so much we don't know.
MuzzleBreak

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02/08/2013 10:32 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Gravity is a field that light travels within. If the mass associated with any particular part of the field could be instantly moved elsewhere, then the entire gravitational field associated with that mass would also instantly move.

If the sun were to be instantly blocked instead of instantly moved, it would take 8 minutes for us to go dark.
In his book, "Between Two Ages," Brzezinski wrote: "The technetronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values."

MuzzleBreak
euphoni

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02/08/2013 10:52 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Where? Gravity differs everywhere
Good > Bad
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 10:54 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
They don't call 'em black holes for nothing...
Seer777
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02/08/2013 10:55 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
They don't call 'em black holes for nothing...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14293336


:EyeCee:

What is on the other side?

hmm
Difficulties strengthen the Mind as labor does the body...
~Seneca
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Im going to have to say that the gravitational force of a blackhole is "faster" than a black hole. Main reasons - light cannot escape a blackhole - also, I would venture to say that gravity can also actually be "faster" than time. When two black holes collide, there literally are areas where time ceases to exist and/or time can be reversed. Yeah, gravity is pretty crazy...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Im going to have to say that the gravitational force of a blackhole is "faster" than a black hole. Main reasons - light cannot escape a blackhole - also, I would venture to say that gravity can also actually be "faster" than time. When two black holes collide, there literally are areas where time ceases to exist and/or time can be reversed. Yeah, gravity is pretty crazy...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16861411


Im going to have to say that the gravitational force of a blackhole is "faster" than a black hole. Main reasons - light cannot escape a blackhole - also, I would venture to say that gravity can also actually be "faster" than time. When two black holes collide, there literally are areas where time ceases to exist and/or time can be reversed. Yeah, gravity is pretty crazy...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16861411


sorry correction . faster than light***
Obiwanbeeohbee

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02/08/2013 11:37 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Just mi dos centavos...

Gravity and electromagnetism will never be explained by the effects we can observe in our three and one-half dimensional space-time.* Until we are able to either, find a way to observe higher dimensions or, come up with the definitive mathematical model we won't be able to answer the questions 'scientifically'.

I personally think any model that definitively explains gravity and electromagnetism will also explain telepathy, clairvoyance and some of the other spooky shit that we observe but can't explain.

My guess is we will eventually find:

-Outside of our space-time, there will be more than one additional 'time' dimension and it would be possible to move along them in both directions, from past to future and from future to past. It may also be we find two time dimensions that are perpendicular to one another, meaning we can visit an infinite number of parallel universes at any time in their past or future by manipulating where the two perpendicular time dimensions 'intersect'. That also may be how UFOs and ghosts seem to move about in time.

-Relativistic effects in our space-time are the result of some sort 'resistance' in higher dimensions to motion through our three. If we revisit the concept of 'lumeniferous ether' and treat the ether like a fluid and then get smart enough to apply either hydro- or aerodynamics to it we'll figure out how to travel faster than light in our space-time.

-Seemingly random perturbations to systems in regular motion in our space-time (spinning gyroscopes, pendulums, vibrating crystals) are the only observable effects of what might be happening in higher dimensions. Hoagland-tards will jump on this one.

-Deterministic systems originating inside our space-time translate into probabilistic systems when translated into higher dimensions and vice versa. i.e.Regular motion in our space-time creates random (Brownian) motion outside our space-time and vice versa. This has implication for uniting relativity and quantum mechanics.



*I say three and one-half, because while the three observable space dimensions are bidirectional (left/right, backward/forward, up/down); time is observed to only travel in a single direction. (past to future)
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something that is completely foolproof, is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools" - Douglas Adams
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
The fundamental particle that carries the electromagnetic force, the photon, travels at the speed of light.

The fundamental particle that carries the gravitational force, the graviton, also travels at the speed of light.

So yes, if the sun "disappeared" suddenly from the sky you would see its rays and experience its gravitational force for only another 8 minutes or so. After those 8 minutes expire, instead of continuing its orbit, the Earth would simply keep flying in whatever direction it was traveling the moment it stopped experiencing the sun's gravitational force.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
A very reasonable question, OP.

And this thread is full of more stupid answers than I can believe.

Look, people, if you don't know the answer, don't pretend, and don't make up answers. Just be quiet, or better yet, Google it and find out.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Lol thank you. Proud to say I provided the "correct" answer because I actually know the answer to this.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Probably the most interesting thread I have seen in months!
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 12:04 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


The fundamental particle that carries the electromagnetic force, the photon, travels at the speed of light.

The fundamental particle that carries the gravitational force, the graviton, also travels at the speed of light.

So yes, if the sun "disappeared" suddenly from the sky you would see its rays and experience its gravitational force for only another 8 minutes or so. After those 8 minutes expire, instead of continuing its orbit, the Earth would simply keep flying in whatever direction it was traveling the moment it stopped experiencing the sun's gravitational force.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
speed of light = 186,000 miles per second. Now that's pretty fast.

But, they theorize that not even light can escape the gravitational pull of a black hole so...

So if light cannot escape a massive force of gravity, then gravity wins???

Regardless, the speed of thought trumps both. While traveling in your astral body, just the thought of a location, no matter how far away and BAM!! you're there, instantly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25716930


I've often wondered that very thing! I used to wonder if maybe black holes were one of the brightest objects we could see, plausibly, but can not due to light not being able to escape gravity...which made me wonder if gravity can somehow trap the light, wouldn't it be able to outrun it, somehow?

I don't know enough hard science to do any calculations, and I probably ignored some major enormous law, but, oh well. Great thread! hf
 Quoting: Junkyard Lily


You are correct, gravitational pull must be faster. If light can not escape it.
 Quoting: WISE GUY


Thank you for your input, truly. My mind takes walks, sometimes, and I wonder about a lot of things that I could never figure out because I stink at simple math. I enjoy reading about things like string theory and M-theory, but don't have the tools to tie everything together.

For instance, I was just wondering the other day, if it is possible our entire Universe is within a ginormous, incomprehensible black hole.

Or, wondering, in the past, if it was possible that our galaxies have super massive black holes in the middle because the black holes were there first...collapsed from the implosion of some super massive stars near the beginning of the creation period in the universe(?) And whether, all the stars and everything we see today traveling around these super massive black holes was brought to fruition because the elements were attracted to the huge gravity well and these black holes just danced around, sweeping up and gathering cosmic goodies.

And, how much does time have to do with gravity? I feel there is some sort of inexplicable link I can't...can't quite figure out, just feel they are related, somehow.

I'm gonna go watch some NOVA. hf
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 12:32 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Light and gravity propagate at the same speed, 'c'.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Gravity does not propagate. Gravity is merely a distortion of the geometry of spacetime caused by the presence of matter.

To ask how "fast" gravity is is similar to asking how "fast" a circle is...or how "fast" air pressure is.

The only way gravity "moves" is if the matter causing the distortion is moving. So in that sense...the gravity of the sun moves at the exact same speed as the sun.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 12:36 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


The fundamental particle that carries the electromagnetic force, the photon, travels at the speed of light.

The fundamental particle that carries the gravitational force, the graviton, also travels at the speed of light.

So yes, if the sun "disappeared" suddenly from the sky you would see its rays and experience its gravitational force for only another 8 minutes or so. After those 8 minutes expire, instead of continuing its orbit, the Earth would simply keep flying in whatever direction it was traveling the moment it stopped experiencing the sun's gravitational force.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


There is no graviton, gravity is not a force, it is just a geometric distortion in the fabric of spacetime caused by the presence of matter.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 12:38 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
A very reasonable question, OP.

And this thread is full of more stupid answers than I can believe.

Look, people, if you don't know the answer, don't pretend, and don't make up answers. Just be quiet, or better yet, Google it and find out.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Lol thank you. Proud to say I provided the "correct" answer because I actually know the answer to this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


Not really.

The graviton is a hypothetical....one that many people do not agree with.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 12:44 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Light and gravity propagate at the same speed, 'c'.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Gravity does not propagate. Gravity is merely a distortion of the geometry of spacetime caused by the presence of matter.

To ask how "fast" gravity is is similar to asking how "fast" a circle is...or how "fast" air pressure is.

The only way gravity "moves" is if the matter causing the distortion is moving. So in that sense...the gravity of the sun moves at the exact same speed as the sun.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24625287


Interesting you mention that. That's certainly what Einstein hypothesized, but most scientists now think quantum mechanics will prove him wrong. Gravity isn't simply a curvature of space-time - it too, like light, can be quantized into a single particle that carries the gravitational force.

Once we have equipment strong enough to detect a graviton (photons are 10^39 times more powerful than a graviton), we will be able to confirm that Einstein's general relativity provided breathtaking computational accuracy but was theoretically inaccurate.

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