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Is gravity faster than light?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2029220
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02/09/2013 12:46 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
A very reasonable question, OP.

And this thread is full of more stupid answers than I can believe.

Look, people, if you don't know the answer, don't pretend, and don't make up answers. Just be quiet, or better yet, Google it and find out.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Lol thank you. Proud to say I provided the "correct" answer because I actually know the answer to this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


Not really.

The graviton is a hypothetical....one that many people do not agree with.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24625287


Eh I don't know man the only reason it's status is still "hypothetical" is because it's so hard to detect. The Standard Model hasn't misled us yet and I think the graviton's existence is about as sure a thing as the photon's.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 01:13 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
A very reasonable question, OP.

And this thread is full of more stupid answers than I can believe.

Look, people, if you don't know the answer, don't pretend, and don't make up answers. Just be quiet, or better yet, Google it and find out.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier


Lol thank you. Proud to say I provided the "correct" answer because I actually know the answer to this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


Not really.

The graviton is a hypothetical....one that many people do not agree with.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24625287


Plus, in keeping with the spirit of your quote, you know I gave much more of an actual answer that the Standard Model actually predicts than anyone else here. Give me some credit.
x_beam

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02/09/2013 01:42 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
The action at a distance part is what proves the "scientists" don't have a clue as to what gravity really is. Their THEORIES merely explain what gravity DOES, not how or why it does it. Observations do not agree with their theories, hence the continual invention of fantasies like black holes and magic fairy dust called dark matter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32604708

Blackholes are not theoretical, we observe them in action pretty often these days!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 904314


This is incorrect. No one has ever observed a black hole. They observe high energy events which they attribute (according to their models) to black holes.

[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]

Please reference any paper where a black hole has been observed directly, and not simply the x-ray, gamma ray or other high-energy outburst.

We often observe high energy events often. That does not equate to observing black holes. They are just the most popular hypothesis... So I guess you're right. Black holes are not theoretical. They are hypothetical. There have been no tests of black holes, and they are not falsifiable, so don't really qualify to be theoretical. (see second paragraph here -> [link to www.wisegeek.org]

Actually, I'm a bit wrong. You could say black holes have been falsified, as observational evidence has falsified predictions of general relativity:
[link to www.youtube.com] <- a bit dry, and some pronunciation issues, but this ex-Nasa guy shows why GR fails in a variety of ways.
And based on math:
[link to milesmathis.com]

Dark matter is not theoretical, they have even mapped out the local structure of dark matter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32604708


Dark matter has problems too:
[link to www.eso.org]
[link to www.youtube.com]


The bigger question about gravity and light is really interesting. They have not defined what gravity is. There really is no definition of what mass is, so my guess is that we can't have a real answer to the question.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 03:44 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
I kind of envision gravity as the road that light travels on right? So if the car is driving at c then how fast is the road? this question can not be asked.

What is the speed of gravity?

well i think we should clarify this, because there is possibly two different questions.

at what speed does gravity propagate, so if an object were either placed into a system instantaneously or removed from a system at what speed would the other objects "feel" the effects of gravity??

i don't find it logical to assume that gravity propagates at speed of light. that means that if two objects that are moving away from each other at the speed of light would not feel each other gravity? I have read a paper that estimated this at 200 times the SOL in space.

I think it must be a wave if an object appears or disappears but it must be way way faster than light

and what is the max speed of the road that is gravity?

well if black holes exist this should be a limit of space. if you could magnify gravity one point in space and repel gravity behind you what is the max speed or terminal velocity of gravity's effects?

space terminal velocity is also faster that light. light speed is the speed at which our instruments work so no kidding bottle neck bro. we need to find our master star in this part of the galaxy and find the point in space we are rotating around vs the light from that star? i must be missing something here.

or maybe the curves on the spiral arms represent a derivative of the speed of gravity propagation?

anyway lot to think about. the long lost question of our time. gravity?? what the fuck is it?
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 03:47 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


The fundamental particle that carries the electromagnetic force, the photon, travels at the speed of light.

The fundamental particle that carries the gravitational force, the graviton, also travels at the speed of light.

So yes, if the sun "disappeared" suddenly from the sky you would see its rays and experience its gravitational force for only another 8 minutes or so. After those 8 minutes expire, instead of continuing its orbit, the Earth would simply keep flying in whatever direction it was traveling the moment it stopped experiencing the sun's gravitational force.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


the barry center of the solar system would be come our new center which would be changing rapidly
FreedomFox

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02/09/2013 04:06 AM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Interesting thread and made think of another question ...

Does gravity influence light in anyway?
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 04:12 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Try here

[link to metaresearch.org]

ENJOY!

hf
Anti-GLP Effect

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02/09/2013 04:57 AM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


Scientists already estimate that the speed of the gravitational wave that propagates the gravitational force is at least 20,000,000,000 x the speed of light c:
[link to www.metaresearch.org]

I believe that gravitational waves are actually sound waves which accelerate towards the center of mass of the source of gravity.

This means that the "speed of gravitational waves" is not constant, and is fastest near the center of mass, and is actually zero at the farthest reach of this gravitational force.

(It is not true that the reach of the gravitational force is infinite).

This means that depending on how far or near you are from the source of the gravitational force, the speed of the gravitational waves can reach you either later or sooner than light.

Photons are already known to behave like a particle with mass, which is why it has momentum, and is also why light can be "captured" by the enormous gravitational force of black holes.

However the mass of photons are only two dimensional, i.e., it has a surfcae area but it does not have volume, in other words, its geometrical shape is that of a hollow sphere.

This hollow sphere pulsates like a heart that expands and contracts. It shrinks to a radius smaller than the Planck length, and it expands to a radius as long as the farthest reach of its gravitational force.

The speed of this pulsation is the speed of the gravitational wave which is now believed to be faster than 20,000,000,000 x the speed of light c.
So it is written, so it shall be done! [link to www.shugborough.info]
euphoni

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02/09/2013 04:59 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
A very reasonable question, OP.

And this thread is full of more stupid answers than I can believe.

Look, people, if you don't know the answer, don't pretend, and don't make up answers. Just be quiet, or better yet, Google it and find out.
 Quoting: Professor Xavier



That's a very presumptuous answer from someone who doesn't know the definitive answer to this question themselves. I would suggest YOU sit back and eat some popcorn while you learn.
Good > Bad
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 05:11 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
gravity is just how large bodies or small ones interact in friction less space with every action having an equal but opposite reaction
Horus of the Two Horizons
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02/09/2013 08:03 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Gravity is instantaneous and continuous and is not constant - it is affected by temperature and other factors because it is dependent on neutrinos

I learned a lot from physicists while researching my new book

[link to endtimesand2019.webs.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32213631
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02/09/2013 08:07 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


that's an excellent question. i wonder. if your thread gets trolled by morons, i would not be surprised.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 08:09 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
considering gravity is a direct impact of a massive body on space time, and we know space-time can move faster than light (hyper expansion in early moments after big bang) i'd assume it would be an instantaneous effect.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 08:41 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
considering gravity is a direct impact of a massive body on space time, and we know space-time can move faster than light (hyper expansion in early moments after big bang) i'd assume it would be an instantaneous effect.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32213631


so let's say the imminent Betelgeuse supernova, or the wr104 supernova, has already happened, but the light hasn't reached us yet. are you saying the gravity effects could already be hammering us? if gravity IS faster than light, then surely that would be the case?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32213631
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02/09/2013 09:57 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


The fundamental particle that carries the electromagnetic force, the photon, travels at the speed of light.

The fundamental particle that carries the gravitational force, the graviton, also travels at the speed of light.

So yes, if the sun "disappeared" suddenly from the sky you would see its rays and experience its gravitational force for only another 8 minutes or so. After those 8 minutes expire, instead of continuing its orbit, the Earth would simply keep flying in whatever direction it was traveling the moment it stopped experiencing the sun's gravitational force.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


There is no graviton, gravity is not a force, it is just a geometric distortion in the fabric of spacetime caused by the presence of matter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24625287


^this. dumbass thinking gravitons are proven been watching too much startrek.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 10:03 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
considering gravity is a direct impact of a massive body on space time, and we know space-time can move faster than light (hyper expansion in early moments after big bang) i'd assume it would be an instantaneous effect.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32213631


so let's say the imminent Betelgeuse supernova, or the wr104 supernova, has already happened, but the light hasn't reached us yet. are you saying the gravity effects could already be hammering us? if gravity IS faster than light, then surely that would be the case?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33508203


1) those events may have happened quite some time ago. we have no way of knowing when they actually occured, until we see the event occur and back-calculate based on distance. so, if gravity had an instant effect, we'd never have known to be looking for such an event with our instruments. also, our instruments are likely not calibrated or capable of detected a 'gravity wave'. at the least, they're only recently capable, so we can't say.

2) based on distance, assuming gravity operates in space time like a pebble operates when tossed in a pool, the waves dissipate rapidly. they might not even be detectable by the time they reach us.

3) it's hard to imagine gravity being slower than light. if that were the case, space time would be restricted to changing form at light speed, and the size of the universe as we know it (over 30 billion lightyears, and with much more we cant yet see) would be impossible.

that's my opinion anyway. but hey, i'm just some asshole on the internet.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 10:13 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
If the sun just vanished we'd zoom off into space in whatever direction we faced.

As for the speed of gravity I guess that light having no mass would give us a speed for the field it passes through as very close to it.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 10:28 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
For what its worth I have a degree in physics.

Gravity, changes in gravity from a mass such as the sun, (gravity waves) travel at the speed of light. This is 'relatively' (lololol) well accepted among the astrophysics crowd that I hang out with.

They are think you guys are RETARDED btw. I'm not as judgmental, but clearly some people never learn the basics.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 11:37 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


Einstein called it "spooky action at a distance" and yes it is a huge problem for modern physics.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 11:45 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
There is an intermediary between light and gravity.....



it's called


MAGNETISM
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 11:45 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
If something continued to accelerate at 9 m/s/s due to gravity... Then it would take 384.951111111 days for it to reach the speed of light... So after 385 days it would be moving faster
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24904482


Don't forget, terminal velocity bro.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33973985


Assuming that there is no resistance
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 11:51 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
There is an intermediary between light and gravity.....



it's called


MAGNETISM
 Quoting: Goodseed


No,

magnetism is one half of the electromagnetic-field, light is an electromagnetic phenomena.
Crazy Harriet

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02/09/2013 11:51 AM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Yes. OP, read up on the Boxing Day tsunami and the huge (largest ever recorded) GRB that hit a couple days later.

There were news reports that made it clear the gravity hit and cause the quake before the light. It was some months before the news even had the GRB report, it was so much out of previous experience they held the story close.
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie—
deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent,
persuasive, and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the
comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
John Fitzgerald Kennedy (1917–1963)
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 11:57 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
9.8 M/S is the speed of gravity, on this celestial body

light is like... way faster.

I"vE got a question for ya,
If all the cows stopped farting would we solve global warming?

or, lemme put it like this:

what if all the water on earth froze, would the fish learn how to ice-skate?
 Quoting: Dark Stranger 3003754


bsflag

Not speed, that's acceleration - 9.8 m/s^2
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 11:59 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
The planets wouldnt suddenly just stop like you think, they would still have inertia that would have to wind down, then there is the planets spin that would keep them moving for a little while as well.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 11:59 AM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Gravity is instantaneous.

Yes, planets would escape the Suns pull immediately if the Sun disappeared.

Just like atoms decay rates change moments before a solar flare. Indicating an effect that transpires with out time delay between atoms here and the Sun. We only see the flare moments later, the decay rates happen as the flare occurs, before we see the flare.
Morpheus
Oderint dum metuant

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02/09/2013 12:00 PM

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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Have the scientists figured it out yet or??

If the sun just disappeared right now, it would take 8 minutes or so for the light to stop coming...

But IMO planets would STOP ``moving around the Sun`` immediately...

What do you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31910747


Nice post Op. This makes me think (hypothetically).

If you compare the earth to a ball with a string that you spin around a fixed point.....what happens if you cut the string? The ball immediately flies outward a tangent (to the exact point where the string was cut)

So.....if the sun magically disappeared (all mass gone instantly). The earth would fly out into open space in a straight line until it was acted upon by the gravity of other space bodies.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 12:01 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
There is an intermediary between light and gravity.....



it's called


MAGNETISM
 Quoting: Goodseed


No,

magnetism is one half of the electromagnetic-field, light is an electromagnetic phenomena.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25276568


But notice they are different entities even if they are always together.

And remember gravity would not exist if electromagetism did not exist.

But electromagetism would exist without gravity.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2013 12:01 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
Because Gravity is not a wave or particle, it does not travel. There for it can't travel faster than light.
It just simply 'is'.

Tis a mystery still being figured out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1395091


This
MHz

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02/09/2013 12:03 PM
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Re: Is gravity faster than light?
9.8 m/s is not the speed of gravity dummy

9.8 m/s/s is the acceleration due to gravity

OP asks or poses a very interesting question
 Quoting: chowan

Would a hammer accelerate at a slower rate when dropped on the moon than it would on earth?

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