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BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 10:10 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
Insider Addendum:


God will melt them in approx. 4.6 years and then birds will feed on the gooh (sp?).
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 10:11 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
Americans praising AL queada

ahahahaha

now Al Queda are the good guys,

we have an 11 year war with Al Queda,


and Americans are told by the news media:


Al Queda are freedom fighter heroes, dont mind that they plan to exterminate christians in Syria, that's good of them


what a fuckin joke




Rent a stupid!!
 Quoting: Marxist


You know, you keep calling assorted jihadis/"freedom-liberators" stupid.

Yes, they are.

But whether totting RPG, planting IED under the cover of night... or strapping suicide-vests... those retards you condescend to can take out 50 people in a single try.

It's this kind of neglect/under-estimation of Islam, especially in the Roaring 1990's in the West... is why we had 9/11 and all the subsequent trillion-dollar costing shit since...

Nevermind the fact, as you mentioned, that behind-the-scenes players who use or "rent" the jihadis, are of course anything BUT stupid...
 Quoting: ASV 2643820
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 10:26 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
Marxist

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02/06/2013 10:27 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
wow, someone who actually sees what is going on,



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6739256


Well I guess you miss my point. The Al Queda Wahhabi jihadists are not "all over the place", they are trained and specialise in intervention for the benefit of their paymasters. That they bring primitive midaevil repressive governance to the places they rule, have you considered that is exactly what their paymasters want?



If you are suggesting that capital seeks to preserve a barbarian market in the ME, you don't understand the nature of accumulation. In addition, you are denying the reality of China which capital has fostered and nurtures in a bid to modernise its peasant populace (in the search for new sources of accumulation.) (Likewise India and Russia)

The ME is a feudal empire atop capital's main source of energy. An intractible empire which capital has naturally cultivated in its bid to ensure a secure energy supply.

However, to suggest that capital goes out of its way to keep its market in barbarian dullness is probably the stupidest thing I have read.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 10:47 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
The Illuminati runs the world,

and is behind all these so called Revolutions,

let me know when you find out about the Illuminati.




wow, someone who actually sees what is going on,



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6739256


Well I guess you miss my point. The Al Queda Wahhabi jihadists are not "all over the place", they are trained and specialise in intervention for the benefit of their paymasters. That they bring primitive midaevil repressive governance to the places they rule, have you considered that is exactly what their paymasters want?
 Quoting: Marxist



If you are suggesting that capital seeks to preserve a barbarian market in the ME, you don't understand the nature of accumulation. In addition, you are denying the reality of China which capital has fostered and nurtures in a bid to modernise its peasant populace (in the search for new sources of accumulation.) (Likewise India and Russia)

The ME is a feudal empire atop capital's main source of energy. An intractible empire which capital has naturally cultivated in its bid to ensure a secure energy supply.

However, to suggest that capital goes out of its way to keep its market in barbarian dullness is probably the stupidest thing I have read.
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 10:47 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
DB what is going on now?
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 10:52 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
DB what is going on now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33544339




He'll be along any minute to cut and paste a new article to claim Assad is about to be defeated,

and singing the praises of the Black Flag AL Queda, and the genocide of 2.5 million christian population of Syria,

yada yada
Marxist

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02/06/2013 10:57 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
The Illuminati runs the world,

and is behind all these so called Revolutions,

let me know when you find out about the Illuminati.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6739256



Rubbish!! Whats the bet you'ld quickly capitulate were you suddenly flush with millions.

Capitalism is the age of the bourgeoisie who have granted us with a modernity which is a natural consequence of the means by which they accumulate. They need a continually changing masses so as they may be receptive to their wares.

Feudal overlords require a barbarian masses who will not challenge their ownership of the societies wealth which is invariably fixed.

The two are very different but in the case of the ME, co-operate as bourgeoisie capitalists need energy and the feudal overlords have found a new source of wealth in the oil (which remains fixed until they can capture the bourgeoisie mode of accumulation which of course, their religion stands in the way of with its primitive rules on usury.)

Illuminati!!! What rubbish!! I'ld suspect that you are probably a Western variant ofthe Islamic primitive...no doubt steeped in idiotic Christian mumbo jumbo.

Last Edited by Marxist on 02/06/2013 10:58 PM
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Dr. AculaModerator
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02/06/2013 10:59 PM

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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
DB what is going on now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33544339




He'll be along any minute to cut and paste a new article to claim Assad is about to be defeated,

and singing the praises of the Black Flag AL Queda, and the genocide of 2.5 million christian population of Syria,

yada yada
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6739256


and what do you offer to us?
hmmmmm?
other than bitching about the posters on here...
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 11:03 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
your argument is essentially:


No way the Illuminati is the capitalists

OR THERE's No Illuminati;


the idea that there could be an Illuminati running


errrrr

both the Capitalists and ahhaha Marxists, not that there's any marxists left,


well holy shit,

if that were the case it would mean that the whole world is a giant puppet show,

and your just duped and reacting to what they present in the puppet theater.



"Illuminati!!! What rubbish!!"= How dare you suggest the global elite exist, it fucks with me happy world view that the evil capitalists will be defeated by the good guy marxists, what year are we living in?? ahahah

The Illuminati runs the capitalists and what could pass for marxism.



"I'ld suspect that you are probably a Western variant ofthe Islamic primitive...no doubt steeped in idiotic Christian mumbo jumbo." = oh look i believe this is an attempt at some neo communist attempting to role play, and bash christianity yada yada, how mid 20th century



The Illuminati runs the world,

and is behind all these so called Revolutions,

let me know when you find out about the Illuminati.




wow, someone who actually sees what is going on,



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6739256


Well I guess you miss my point. The Al Queda Wahhabi jihadists are not "all over the place", they are trained and specialise in intervention for the benefit of their paymasters. That they bring primitive midaevil repressive governance to the places they rule, have you considered that is exactly what their paymasters want?
 Quoting: Marxist

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6739256


If you are suggesting that capital seeks to preserve a barbarian market in the ME, you don't understand the nature of accumulation. In addition, you are denying the reality of China which capital has fostered and nurtures in a bid to modernise its peasant populace (in the search for new sources of accumulation.) (Likewise India and Russia)

The ME is a feudal empire atop capital's main source of energy. An intractible empire which capital has naturally cultivated in its bid to ensure a secure energy supply.

However, to suggest that capital goes out of its way to keep its market in barbarian dullness is probably the stupidest thing I have read.
 Quoting: Marxist



Rubbish!! Whats the bet you'ld quickly capitulate were you suddenly flush with millions.

Capitalism is the age of the bourgeoisie who have granted us with a modernity which is a natural consequence of the means by which they accumulate. They need a continually changing masses so as they may be receptive to their wares.

Feudal overlords require a barbarian masses who will not challenge their ownership of the societies wealth which is invariably fixed.

The two are very different but in the case of the ME, co-operate as bourgeoisie capitalists need energy and the feudal overlords have found a new source of wealth in the oil (which remains fixed until they can capture the bourgeoisie mode of accumulation which of course, their religion stands in the way of with its primitive rules on usury.)

Illuminati!!! What rubbish!! I'ld suspect that you are probably a Western variant ofthe Islamic primitive...no doubt steeped in idiotic Christian mumbo jumbo.
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 11:05 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
awwww what's a matter little boy,


dont like hearing that the US government is backing a Al Queda and a Christian genocide in Syria,


waaah waaah waahh No No we're the Good Guys

Assad is Bad, the TV says SO!!

make the bad man stop!!!


ahahah





DB what is going on now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33544339




He'll be along any minute to cut and paste a new article to claim Assad is about to be defeated,

and singing the praises of the Black Flag AL Queda, and the genocide of 2.5 million christian population of Syria,

yada yada
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6739256


and what do you offer to us?
hmmmmm?
other than bitching about the posters on here...
 Quoting: Dr. Acula
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 11:09 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
US-Backed Rebels Committing Christian Genocide In Syria

Posted GMT 6-15-2012 17:55:37


Christians are being systematically targeted for genocide in Syria according to Vatican and other sources with contacts on the ground among the besieged Christian community. According to reports by the Vatican's Fides News Agency collected by the Centre for the Study of Interventionism, the US-backed Free Syrian Army rebels and ever more radical spin-off factions are sacking Christian churches, shooting Christians dead in the street, broadcasting ultimatums that all Christians must be cleansed from the rebel-held villages, and even shooting priests.

[link to www.aina.org]
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 11:14 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
...


Who are you to say it is "reason enough" to discard the anti Saddam struggle because infidels dethroned Saddam? Worse!, who the FUCK are you to associate them with foreign funded fanatical terrorists whose sole purpose was to weaken both Sunni and Shia resistance against the US led illegal invasion? That's really sloppy analysis!!! Even Baaths were patriots as much as Muqtada. Without the "infidels",, as you call them, and other foreign infiltrators (SArabia) a secular Baathist multiethnic and locally grown option was always a possibility.

Marxist, you have lost your patience for nationalist struggle as the vehicle for self determination. Time to change your moniker and become a Clinton supporter..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Where is the local self determination whilst the region pivots around an imperial theocracy based in Saudi Arabia. A theocracy which all the so-called secular forces in the region pay lip service to as the region continues to set itself apart from the mass of the working class movement worldwide. Islamic socialism (Baathist or Libyan) is a joke. It is as much a joke as is the bogus socialism of Tony Blair or the Chinese. However, give those hegemons their due. They act in concert when confronted by threats to their regional interest. I fall about the place laughing at being told that China has the back of the Arab Empire. China has only one back...and that is China.

The constituent elements of the Arab Empire are a joke and have let down the muslim working class absolutely. They afford no protection to the working class whilst being preyed upon by external forces. In fact local predation surpasses that of the outsider. In contrast, little Israel does a salutory job in securing its own interests.

The best you can do is breakup this joke of a cultural region and start from scratch. You have yet to embark on the modernity of capital (yes, Marx did construe the meritocracy of capitalism an improvement on the arbitrary structures one finds in these outdated feudalisms) let alone address the core inequities.

In other words, you have yet to pass base in your long climb to equity. You are not going to get it by running around the place like a headless chicken playing the victim. You can only do so through solidarity and that comes from a solid understanding of the issues at stake.
 Quoting: Marxist


So let me get this straight: your Marxist analysis is to support foreign interventions by selfish invaders so as to have the region go through a capitalist "transition" on the road to secular socialism? That's a deluded twist on a familiar theme. You imply the Baathist were mere puppets, phonies, submitting to SArabia. I dont recall their friendship being that close, actually. While the Saddams and Assads and Ghadaffis of the world exercised repressive internal control, wiped out independent Unions, had torture chambers against dissidents,,, one thing they did do was create secular and socialist institutions of health, education, sanitation, infreastructure, resource ownership and development. Now you say "they arent worthy and must be destroyed by foreign invaders" because they "dont support the workers". But, hey, those institutions benefited the workers and farmers and not only raised their standard of living but also their consciousness. Nationalist AND class consciousness, Marxist. Now, when Iraqis, or Syrian or Libyans for that matter, begin to struggle against the repressive national apparatus, do you think they will do it by destroying the infrastructure and institutions that they benefited from? That's what the foreign invaders did,,, as a matter of course,,, to "weaken the regime". They didnt care if the country was crushed into the dark ages, their goal wasnt to build on past achievements, their goal was to save and American lives, crush resistance, control the country and extract the wealth for their benefit.

National progress isnt a linear process, whether transitioning from "capitalism" to "socialism", and self determination and prideful achievement cannot be imposed esp by disinterested foreigners.

I really dont get you. Obviously you are pissed at the "Arab world" and Islamic rule. But you seem to see as a radical solution, even to the extent of jihadists terrorist tactics amd their foreign paymasters,,,, if only "to get the ball rolling to a brighter day". Is that crazy, or what?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Aaah the familiar socialism in one country theme, especially peasant societes. It will not work whilst capital is globalising, now matter how many crocodile tears you shed on the world stage. Once the forces of capital were unleashed, the globalising process, a genie that cannot be put away, was set free. Saddam and Ghadaffis major mistake was continuing to ally themselves with the Arab Empire (you aren't going to tell me that both countries abandoned Islam in an act of pure secularism) and and not allying themselves with like forces in countries such as Cuba in a regional bloc. That would have affordrd them some protection and probably delayed the inevitable day when they were eventually absorbed by capital, with less ignominy. The USSR and China are testimony to the bogus socialism in one country myth.

As for the Arab Empire of which they continued to participate, this is a shambolic structure which affords no one but a feudal elite any relief, not even the basic modernity that accompanies a societies transition from barbarian to capital. Islam is still barbarian and displays all the naivete of the barbarian in as much as it demands justice whilst engaging in the continued expansion of its brute and backwards social economy. So a resounding YES to the fall of this filthy empire to capital. The sooner the better.

I will be dancing with unmitigated joy when the Arab Empire falls to capitalism. As a global humanity, we can then proceed to real progress. Any simpleton who sees common cause with this backwardness is next to bloody useless in the struggle and might as well piss off.
 Quoting: Marxist


I couldnt agree more for the Emirates and SArabia even though they have plenty of Capital investment, but contract to Indian and Malay second class "guest" (and US) workers the dirty manual labour of grand construction and military projects -- building a revolutionary class from a managerial aristocracy in a klepto monarchy is hardly a base to achieve much. Syria isnt that way. Neither was Iraq or Libya. Their working class/peasant mix was rather modern, and far from the feudal Islamic system you presume. So wrong again. But when will you recognize it and stop equating these secular societies albeit predominantly Islamic religious societies, with Islamic Republics (of which they definitely are/were not)? And another contradiction: if you want "progress" to global capitalism why support their overthrow by the very backward jihadist Wahabbis you supposedly abhor? It seems you support the opposite of what you say you want...
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 11:22 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
However, to suggest that capital goes out of its way to keep its market in barbarian dullness is probably the stupidest thing I have read.

The facts speak for themselves. The masses, even the most dull, still drink Coca Cola and brush with Crest.
Marxist

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02/06/2013 11:38 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
However, to suggest that capital goes out of its way to keep its market in barbarian dullness is probably the stupidest thing I have read.

The facts speak for themselves. The masses, even the most dull, still drink Coca Cola and brush with Crest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Look I am not going to argue with you as to which is better. Capitalism for all its faults has some modicum of meritocracy and due process. In contrast, its predecessor, feudalism (in our age, Islam) was downright brutal.

We all know how capitalism has invaded and brutalised peoples in the span of its age, however, it seeks to globalise and impose its hegemony, consumerism.

The Arab Empire similarly conquers but for territorial reasons.

The former has to default to modernism and due process in order to develop the necessary market. The latter has to default to barbarism and brutality in order to protect the fixed wealths consolidation in the hands of a few.

You can take your pick.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Marxist

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02/06/2013 11:47 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
...


Where is the local self determination whilst the region pivots around an imperial theocracy based in Saudi Arabia. A theocracy which all the so-called secular forces in the region pay lip service to as the region continues to set itself apart from the mass of the working class movement worldwide. Islamic socialism (Baathist or Libyan) is a joke. It is as much a joke as is the bogus socialism of Tony Blair or the Chinese. However, give those hegemons their due. They act in concert when confronted by threats to their regional interest. I fall about the place laughing at being told that China has the back of the Arab Empire. China has only one back...and that is China.

The constituent elements of the Arab Empire are a joke and have let down the muslim working class absolutely. They afford no protection to the working class whilst being preyed upon by external forces. In fact local predation surpasses that of the outsider. In contrast, little Israel does a salutory job in securing its own interests.

The best you can do is breakup this joke of a cultural region and start from scratch. You have yet to embark on the modernity of capital (yes, Marx did construe the meritocracy of capitalism an improvement on the arbitrary structures one finds in these outdated feudalisms) let alone address the core inequities.

In other words, you have yet to pass base in your long climb to equity. You are not going to get it by running around the place like a headless chicken playing the victim. You can only do so through solidarity and that comes from a solid understanding of the issues at stake.
 Quoting: Marxist


So let me get this straight: your Marxist analysis is to support foreign interventions by selfish invaders so as to have the region go through a capitalist "transition" on the road to secular socialism? That's a deluded twist on a familiar theme. You imply the Baathist were mere puppets, phonies, submitting to SArabia. I dont recall their friendship being that close, actually. While the Saddams and Assads and Ghadaffis of the world exercised repressive internal control, wiped out independent Unions, had torture chambers against dissidents,,, one thing they did do was create secular and socialist institutions of health, education, sanitation, infreastructure, resource ownership and development. Now you say "they arent worthy and must be destroyed by foreign invaders" because they "dont support the workers". But, hey, those institutions benefited the workers and farmers and not only raised their standard of living but also their consciousness. Nationalist AND class consciousness, Marxist. Now, when Iraqis, or Syrian or Libyans for that matter, begin to struggle against the repressive national apparatus, do you think they will do it by destroying the infrastructure and institutions that they benefited from? That's what the foreign invaders did,,, as a matter of course,,, to "weaken the regime". They didnt care if the country was crushed into the dark ages, their goal wasnt to build on past achievements, their goal was to save and American lives, crush resistance, control the country and extract the wealth for their benefit.

National progress isnt a linear process, whether transitioning from "capitalism" to "socialism", and self determination and prideful achievement cannot be imposed esp by disinterested foreigners.

I really dont get you. Obviously you are pissed at the "Arab world" and Islamic rule. But you seem to see as a radical solution, even to the extent of jihadists terrorist tactics amd their foreign paymasters,,,, if only "to get the ball rolling to a brighter day". Is that crazy, or what?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Aaah the familiar socialism in one country theme, especially peasant societes. It will not work whilst capital is globalising, now matter how many crocodile tears you shed on the world stage. Once the forces of capital were unleashed, the globalising process, a genie that cannot be put away, was set free. Saddam and Ghadaffis major mistake was continuing to ally themselves with the Arab Empire (you aren't going to tell me that both countries abandoned Islam in an act of pure secularism) and and not allying themselves with like forces in countries such as Cuba in a regional bloc. That would have affordrd them some protection and probably delayed the inevitable day when they were eventually absorbed by capital, with less ignominy. The USSR and China are testimony to the bogus socialism in one country myth.

As for the Arab Empire of which they continued to participate, this is a shambolic structure which affords no one but a feudal elite any relief, not even the basic modernity that accompanies a societies transition from barbarian to capital. Islam is still barbarian and displays all the naivete of the barbarian in as much as it demands justice whilst engaging in the continued expansion of its brute and backwards social economy. So a resounding YES to the fall of this filthy empire to capital. The sooner the better.

I will be dancing with unmitigated joy when the Arab Empire falls to capitalism. As a global humanity, we can then proceed to real progress. Any simpleton who sees common cause with this backwardness is next to bloody useless in the struggle and might as well piss off.
 Quoting: Marxist


I couldnt agree more for the Emirates and SArabia even though they have plenty of Capital investment, but contract to Indian and Malay second class "guest" (and US) workers the dirty manual labour of grand construction and military projects -- building a revolutionary class from a managerial aristocracy in a klepto monarchy is hardly a base to achieve much. Syria isnt that way. Neither was Iraq or Libya. Their working class/peasant mix was rather modern, and far from the feudal Islamic system you presume. So wrong again. But when will you recognize it and stop equating these secular societies albeit predominantly Islamic religious societies, with Islamic Republics (of which they definitely are/were not)? And another contradiction: if you want "progress" to global capitalism why support their overthrow by the very backward jihadist Wahabbis you supposedly abhor? It seems you support the opposite of what you say you want...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


We have a similar setup in capitalism with social democrats whom Marx incidentally viewed as obstructiuonists to the expansion of capital and the play out of dialectioc forces. In contrast he preferred the free market.

These Islamic "secular" republics simply delay the necessary collapse of Islam and grant it an extension that hampers the development of these peoples. For all their so-called secularism, Iraqis were still a backwards people who saw the world in terms of believers and unbelievers, albeit in a padded cell, at Saddams removal.

In contrast, the Islamist revolution in Egypt has opened up a can of worms which threatens to unseat Islam and its sway over these people.

Now if Saddam and Assad had said, we are done with Islam and embracing neutral secularism, then one could see that as a positive development.

It is not the role of progressives to choose the lesser of two evils but to ensure that all the forces that cause change are given an unfettered play.

Whilst I can see why some support limited progress, it achieves nothing in the long term other than to corrupt political awareness.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 11:48 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
However, to suggest that capital goes out of its way to keep its market in barbarian dullness is probably the stupidest thing I have read.

The facts speak for themselves. The masses, even the most dull, still drink Coca Cola and brush with Crest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Look I am not going to argue with you as to which is better. Capitalism for all its faults has some modicum of meritocracy and due process. In contrast, its predecessor, feudalism (in our age, Islam) was downright brutal.

We all know how capitalism has invaded and brutalised peoples in the span of its age, however, it seeks to globalise and impose its hegemony, consumerism.

The Arab Empire similarly conquers but for territorial reasons.

The former has to default to modernism and due process in order to develop the necessary market. The latter has to default to barbarism and brutality in order to protect the fixed wealths consolidation in the hands of a few.

You can take your pick.
 Quoting: Marxist


Again, you are not addressing my comments (or arguing them, if you prefer). Syria, Libya and Iraq are not good examples of what you are saying. Libya now is, of course. An Islamic Republic, sharia law, and Coca Cola.

and btw who else besides the West et al. uses aka Al Queda Wahabbis foreign mercenary trained killers? You say "everybody" uses them, implying so should the West in their inevitable role as "planters of the seeds of their own destruction". Jeez. Dogmatic much?
Marxist

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02/06/2013 11:52 PM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
In any event, I do not support the rise of fundamentalism in Syria. However, I can understand why the Arab Empire is consuming itself from within. This will only get worse as Islam tries to fend off its inevitable collapse...hopefully this will hasten that collapse as muslims risk falling behind in the march of modernity.
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Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 12:00 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
...


So let me get this straight: your Marxist analysis is to support foreign interventions by selfish invaders so as to have the region go through a capitalist "transition" on the road to secular socialism? That's a deluded twist on a familiar theme. You imply the Baathist were mere puppets, phonies, submitting to SArabia. I dont recall their friendship being that close, actually. While the Saddams and Assads and Ghadaffis of the world exercised repressive internal control, wiped out independent Unions, had torture chambers against dissidents,,, one thing they did do was create secular and socialist institutions of health, education, sanitation, infreastructure, resource ownership and development. Now you say "they arent worthy and must be destroyed by foreign invaders" because they "dont support the workers". But, hey, those institutions benefited the workers and farmers and not only raised their standard of living but also their consciousness. Nationalist AND class consciousness, Marxist. Now, when Iraqis, or Syrian or Libyans for that matter, begin to struggle against the repressive national apparatus, do you think they will do it by destroying the infrastructure and institutions that they benefited from? That's what the foreign invaders did,,, as a matter of course,,, to "weaken the regime". They didnt care if the country was crushed into the dark ages, their goal wasnt to build on past achievements, their goal was to save and American lives, crush resistance, control the country and extract the wealth for their benefit.

National progress isnt a linear process, whether transitioning from "capitalism" to "socialism", and self determination and prideful achievement cannot be imposed esp by disinterested foreigners.

I really dont get you. Obviously you are pissed at the "Arab world" and Islamic rule. But you seem to see as a radical solution, even to the extent of jihadists terrorist tactics amd their foreign paymasters,,,, if only "to get the ball rolling to a brighter day". Is that crazy, or what?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Aaah the familiar socialism in one country theme, especially peasant societes. It will not work whilst capital is globalising, now matter how many crocodile tears you shed on the world stage. Once the forces of capital were unleashed, the globalising process, a genie that cannot be put away, was set free. Saddam and Ghadaffis major mistake was continuing to ally themselves with the Arab Empire (you aren't going to tell me that both countries abandoned Islam in an act of pure secularism) and and not allying themselves with like forces in countries such as Cuba in a regional bloc. That would have affordrd them some protection and probably delayed the inevitable day when they were eventually absorbed by capital, with less ignominy. The USSR and China are testimony to the bogus socialism in one country myth.

As for the Arab Empire of which they continued to participate, this is a shambolic structure which affords no one but a feudal elite any relief, not even the basic modernity that accompanies a societies transition from barbarian to capital. Islam is still barbarian and displays all the naivete of the barbarian in as much as it demands justice whilst engaging in the continued expansion of its brute and backwards social economy. So a resounding YES to the fall of this filthy empire to capital. The sooner the better.

I will be dancing with unmitigated joy when the Arab Empire falls to capitalism. As a global humanity, we can then proceed to real progress. Any simpleton who sees common cause with this backwardness is next to bloody useless in the struggle and might as well piss off.
 Quoting: Marxist


I couldnt agree more for the Emirates and SArabia even though they have plenty of Capital investment, but contract to Indian and Malay second class "guest" (and US) workers the dirty manual labour of grand construction and military projects -- building a revolutionary class from a managerial aristocracy in a klepto monarchy is hardly a base to achieve much. Syria isnt that way. Neither was Iraq or Libya. Their working class/peasant mix was rather modern, and far from the feudal Islamic system you presume. So wrong again. But when will you recognize it and stop equating these secular societies albeit predominantly Islamic religious societies, with Islamic Republics (of which they definitely are/were not)? And another contradiction: if you want "progress" to global capitalism why support their overthrow by the very backward jihadist Wahabbis you supposedly abhor? It seems you support the opposite of what you say you want...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


We have a similar setup in capitalism with social democrats whom Marx incidentally viewed as obstructiuonists to the expansion of capital and the play out of dialectioc forces. In contrast he preferred the free market.

These Islamic "secular" republics simply delay the necessary collapse of Islam and grant it an extension that hampers the development of these peoples. For all their so-called secularism, Iraqis were still a backwards people who saw the world in terms of believers and unbelievers, albeit in a padded cell, at Saddams removal.

In contrast, the Islamist revolution in Egypt has opened up a can of worms which threatens to unseat Islam and its sway over these people.

Now if Saddam and Assad had said, we are done with Islam and embracing neutral secularism, then one could see that as a positive development.

It is not the role of progressives to choose the lesser of two evils but to ensure that all the forces that cause change are given an unfettered play.

Whilst I can see why some support limited progress, it achieves nothing in the long term other than to corrupt political awareness.
 Quoting: Marxist


The foreign Wahabbi jihadists trained killers also want to get rid of all vestiges of secular social democraticism and the their institutions in the ME -- their interests align with that of big global Capital. Now why would market capitalist "forces" have common interest with these fighters wannabe leaders of a pan Arabic Midaevil Islamic feudal Caliphate? And how would Marx see your support for them as progress? Beats me. The Trot desire for a World revolution makes strange bedfellows, I guess-...
Marxist

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02/07/2013 12:03 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
However, to suggest that capital goes out of its way to keep its market in barbarian dullness is probably the stupidest thing I have read.

The facts speak for themselves. The masses, even the most dull, still drink Coca Cola and brush with Crest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Look I am not going to argue with you as to which is better. Capitalism for all its faults has some modicum of meritocracy and due process. In contrast, its predecessor, feudalism (in our age, Islam) was downright brutal.

We all know how capitalism has invaded and brutalised peoples in the span of its age, however, it seeks to globalise and impose its hegemony, consumerism.

The Arab Empire similarly conquers but for territorial reasons.

The former has to default to modernism and due process in order to develop the necessary market. The latter has to default to barbarism and brutality in order to protect the fixed wealths consolidation in the hands of a few.

You can take your pick.
 Quoting: Marxist


Again, you are not addressing my comments (or arguing them, if you prefer). Syria, Libya and Iraq are not good examples of what you are saying. Libya now is, of course. An Islamic Republic, sharia law, and Coca Cola.

and btw who else besides the West et al. uses aka Al Queda Wahabbis foreign mercenary trained killers? You say "everybody" uses them, implying so should the West in their inevitable role as "planters of the seeds of their own destruction". Jeez. Dogmatic much?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


How is it in stating the facts, one is being dogmatic. Islamists are widely used merceneries, period. Syria, Libya and Iraq were Islamic states with secular features. They all sat at the table of the Islamic Conference headed by gatekeeper of the empire, Saudi Arabia. They all followed the basic thrust of Arabist territorialism, for example in their support, in its various forms, of territorial struggles in faraway places such as Chechnya and Kashmir. Turkey treads a careful path due to its desire to enter the EU.

These states had ample opportunity to strike partnerships outside the Arab Empire and chose not to. They engaged in opportunistic relationships with America and periodically marched to Jeddah to meet with their imperial overlords. They brought their fate upon themselves.

In contrast Cuba right beside America has stood its ground. China, Maoist extremist, has comfortably slipped into the flow of capital. Vietnam, which defeated the US, now trades robustly with it.

Sometimes, you people look too hard for bogeymen. Too hard.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Marxist

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02/07/2013 12:07 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
...


Aaah the familiar socialism in one country theme, especially peasant societes. It will not work whilst capital is globalising, now matter how many crocodile tears you shed on the world stage. Once the forces of capital were unleashed, the globalising process, a genie that cannot be put away, was set free. Saddam and Ghadaffis major mistake was continuing to ally themselves with the Arab Empire (you aren't going to tell me that both countries abandoned Islam in an act of pure secularism) and and not allying themselves with like forces in countries such as Cuba in a regional bloc. That would have affordrd them some protection and probably delayed the inevitable day when they were eventually absorbed by capital, with less ignominy. The USSR and China are testimony to the bogus socialism in one country myth.

As for the Arab Empire of which they continued to participate, this is a shambolic structure which affords no one but a feudal elite any relief, not even the basic modernity that accompanies a societies transition from barbarian to capital. Islam is still barbarian and displays all the naivete of the barbarian in as much as it demands justice whilst engaging in the continued expansion of its brute and backwards social economy. So a resounding YES to the fall of this filthy empire to capital. The sooner the better.

I will be dancing with unmitigated joy when the Arab Empire falls to capitalism. As a global humanity, we can then proceed to real progress. Any simpleton who sees common cause with this backwardness is next to bloody useless in the struggle and might as well piss off.
 Quoting: Marxist


I couldnt agree more for the Emirates and SArabia even though they have plenty of Capital investment, but contract to Indian and Malay second class "guest" (and US) workers the dirty manual labour of grand construction and military projects -- building a revolutionary class from a managerial aristocracy in a klepto monarchy is hardly a base to achieve much. Syria isnt that way. Neither was Iraq or Libya. Their working class/peasant mix was rather modern, and far from the feudal Islamic system you presume. So wrong again. But when will you recognize it and stop equating these secular societies albeit predominantly Islamic religious societies, with Islamic Republics (of which they definitely are/were not)? And another contradiction: if you want "progress" to global capitalism why support their overthrow by the very backward jihadist Wahabbis you supposedly abhor? It seems you support the opposite of what you say you want...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


We have a similar setup in capitalism with social democrats whom Marx incidentally viewed as obstructiuonists to the expansion of capital and the play out of dialectioc forces. In contrast he preferred the free market.

These Islamic "secular" republics simply delay the necessary collapse of Islam and grant it an extension that hampers the development of these peoples. For all their so-called secularism, Iraqis were still a backwards people who saw the world in terms of believers and unbelievers, albeit in a padded cell, at Saddams removal.

In contrast, the Islamist revolution in Egypt has opened up a can of worms which threatens to unseat Islam and its sway over these people.

Now if Saddam and Assad had said, we are done with Islam and embracing neutral secularism, then one could see that as a positive development.

It is not the role of progressives to choose the lesser of two evils but to ensure that all the forces that cause change are given an unfettered play.

Whilst I can see why some support limited progress, it achieves nothing in the long term other than to corrupt political awareness.
 Quoting: Marxist


The foreign Wahabbi jihadists trained killers also want to get rid of all vestiges of secular social democraticism and the their institutions in the ME -- their interests align with that of big global Capital. Now why would market capitalist "forces" have common interest with these fighters wannabe leaders of a pan Arabic Midaevil Islamic feudal Caliphate? And how would Marx see your support for them as progress? Beats me. The Trot desire for a World revolution makes strange bedfellows, I guess-...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


I dont suport the jihadists. However, I see Assad's fall as a direct consequence of his incompetence and ambivalence. Having said that, one can hope that the rise of this extremism will hasten the collapse of Islam which it has to be said, Assad and his ilk tried to render a little more acceptable.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 12:40 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
However, to suggest that capital goes out of its way to keep its market in barbarian dullness is probably the stupidest thing I have read.

The facts speak for themselves. The masses, even the most dull, still drink Coca Cola and brush with Crest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Look I am not going to argue with you as to which is better. Capitalism for all its faults has some modicum of meritocracy and due process. In contrast, its predecessor, feudalism (in our age, Islam) was downright brutal.

We all know how capitalism has invaded and brutalised peoples in the span of its age, however, it seeks to globalise and impose its hegemony, consumerism.

The Arab Empire similarly conquers but for territorial reasons.

The former has to default to modernism and due process in order to develop the necessary market. The latter has to default to barbarism and brutality in order to protect the fixed wealths consolidation in the hands of a few.

You can take your pick.
 Quoting: Marxist


Again, you are not addressing my comments (or arguing them, if you prefer). Syria, Libya and Iraq are not good examples of what you are saying. Libya now is, of course. An Islamic Republic, sharia law, and Coca Cola.

and btw who else besides the West et al. uses aka Al Queda Wahabbis foreign mercenary trained killers? You say "everybody" uses them, implying so should the West in their inevitable role as "planters of the seeds of their own destruction". Jeez. Dogmatic much?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


How is it in stating the facts, one is being dogmatic. Islamists are widely used merceneries, period.

I asked about the highly trained, heavily armed, ideologically hardened militants with hoards of battle experience. aka Al Queda Wahhabis. Who "else" uses them? (your dogmatism is but one variety of Marxism -- he went through several stages himself and wasnt as dogmatic as you,,, re the right tactic should fit the circumstance).

Syria, Libya and Iraq were Islamic states with secular features. They all sat at the table of the Islamic Conference headed by gatekeeper of the empire, Saudi Arabia. They all followed the basic thrust of Arabist territorialism, for example in their support, in its various forms, of territorial struggles in faraway places such as Chechnya and Kashmir. Turkey treads a careful path due to its desire to enter the EU.

Saudi Arabia and the Emirates were playing that game -- ideological (Islamic) purity in their eyes,,, Useful idiots spreading chaos for US geopolitic gain in the eyes of the West. Not saying that Chechnya and Kashmir dont have legitimate grievances,,,, but they were coopted early. Your complaint? Syria, Libya and Iraq sat at the table with Saudi Arabia. So? I see no evidence that they bankrolled or provided fighters or expressed solidarity to those faraway causes. Show me SOMETHING which says they did.

These states had ample opportunity to strike partnerships outside the Arab Empire and chose not to. They engaged in opportunistic relationships with America and periodically marched to Jeddah to meet with their imperial overlords. They brought their fate upon themselves.

Like Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, India, Brazil and China? They had lots of contact with these countries. What makes you think they didnt? And who else did you have in mind?

In contrast Cuba right beside America has stood its ground. China, Maoist extremist, has comfortably slipped into the flow of capital. Vietnam, which defeated the US, now trades robustly with it.


Yeah, but Cuba supports Venezuela, and Venezuela has Mercosur and ALBA and OPEC (non Western orgs), and traded and supported Ghaddafi's NAfrica vision, Assad's social democratic Baathism and pro Palestinian stance. Basically Marxist, what used to be called the non aligned movement still finds common cause with others who believe in non interventionist policies, and against the big elephant in the room you prefer to ignore: the Imperial global Dragon gobbling up national self determination and ever expanding its sphere of control and influence.

And lastly China and Vietnam..., Well, according to your thesis they should be progressing on the path to socialism, Rejecting the "socialism in one country, peasant backwardness" model and adopting robust capitalist modes of production. Marx can sleep well, Right?

Sometimes, you people look too hard for bogeymen. Too hard.

Us people? And then there's too smart you, way up there in the clouds.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 12:59 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
I dont suport the jihadists. However, I see Assad's fall as a direct consequence of his incompetence and ambivalence. Having said that, one can hope that the rise of this extremism will hasten the collapse of Islam which it has to be said, Assad and his ilk tried to render a little more acceptable.
 Quoting: Marxist


Assad never tried to make Wahhabi jihadist mercenary killers acceptable. Prove it. And please, make it more than "he sat at the table with SArabia". As for your off handed rejection of them it seems you indeed support their victories, since that agrees with your dogma and analytical worldview.

But I notice a slight change now: instead of the modernism of US Capital argument you previously stated as a prerequisite to your hopes and desires, the jihadies should be victorious so the hapless populations will see the errors of their Islamic ways in accepting pseudo social democratic regimes, and reject both for the bird in the bush that you offer....
Marxist

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02/07/2013 01:01 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
Us people? And then there's too smart you, way up there in the clouds.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Basically, what has been achieved by the limited engagement rationale of you people?

Ghadaffi funded Berloscuni whilst he preached African unity. Assad offered his security apparatus for the use of the US whilst he took potshots at Israel. Pakistan played an active role in the destruction of Najibullah's socialist Afghanistan, whilst it muckraked in secular Kashmir. Iraq engaged with the US in its part of the world during the Iran war. Iran supplemented the US in the overthrow of Saddam.

Which part of they earned their fate is so difficult to understand?

The Chinese similarly co-operated with capital and continue to for the simple reason that they have added value in the accumulation proces. The Arab Empire does not, lumbered as it is with Islamic economics. Is it any wonder that they are not held in similar regard by capital as are the Chinese, except to the extent that they can deliver oil on time.

In the happy happy land of nice thoughts; justice and fairness reigns and bad guys get their comeuppance. However, in the globalising world of capital, Islam is rapidly approaching its sell by date. And good riddance.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 01:09 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
Us people? And then there's too smart you, way up there in the clouds.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202


Basically, what has been achieved by the limited engagement rationale of you people?

Ghadaffi funded Berloscuni whilst he preached African unity. Assad offered his security apparatus for the use of the US whilst he took potshots at Israel. Pakistan played an active role in the destruction of Najibullah's socialist Afghanistan, whilst it muckraked in secular Kashmir. Iraq engaged with the US in its part of the world during the Iran war. Iran supplemented the US in the overthrow of Saddam.

Which part of they earned their fate is so difficult to understand?

The Chinese similarly co-operated with capital and continue to for the simple reason that they have added value in the accumulation proces. The Arab Empire does not, lumbered as it is with Islamic economics. Is it any wonder that they are not held in similar regard by capital as are the Chinese, except to the extent that they can deliver oil on time.

In the happy happy land of nice thoughts; justice and fairness reigns and bad guys get their comeuppance. However, in the globalising world of capital, Islam is rapidly approaching its sell by date. And good riddance.
 Quoting: Marxist


Earned fate? Where do you get these fascist terms? You're one of these p2p elitist humanitarian neo liberal con artists. Get back some respect for "justice and fairness" and above all people's ability to make a far far better assessment of their own situation than outside crusaders like you and your ilk...
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 01:17 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
No proof, just dogma and Full Engagement (using jihadi terrorists to spread US capital formation). Gung ho, Marxist! Trot of the third kind...
Marxist

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02/07/2013 01:19 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
I will end this debate with these closing thoughts. I despise Islam and all muslims. You are a pox on this planet. I fully support capital kicking the shit out of this empire which thinks it has the right to invade the lands of others, to move into our neighbourhoods and dictate their mumbo jumbo to the rest of us yet demand justice from us. Yes, the sooner they reduce this arsehole of a region to dust, the better.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
ASV
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02/07/2013 01:26 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
...


Listen mate, by any measure, your Arab Empire is an even greater joke than it ever was. What the firk are these jihadis liberating. More regions for rich Western expats to flock to. Cos that is the net effect of blowing 50 people to bits out your arsehole.

Nowhere is it more profitabe for me to work that in the heartland of the Empire. It is only a matter of time before Iraq comes on tap. I'ld say give it a decade and Tehran will be a nice little earner.

In the meantime, the West is being overwhelmed by refugees from expat land. Fuck, are you people awake!!!
 Quoting: Marxist


clappa
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33828025


No, ya brown-snake piss-swilling matey, what I am telling you is that troglodyte teenage jihadi on his bad day can take out like 50 peeps -- with another 50 badly disfigured by nail, ball-bearings & other sharpnel -- any time he damn well pleases.

(Well, 50 if we're talking normal, secure human beings. Which translates to roughly about 150 unwashed Marxists, 160 Maoists and 175.5 Trotskyists, but whatever po-tay-to, to-mah-to)

It doesn't even have anything to do with Arab Caliphate. But since you brought it up... 19 high-jackers with on one Tuesday managed to cause TRILLION dollar economic damage when cost of all wars is tallied up ---> not to mention brings us ever so closely to 1984-type society with all the Patriot Acts and whatnot... Not bad for a Tora Bora cave operation...

But it gets better, mom: now imagine a few dirty bombs or actual nukes carefully set off in world's economic & cultural capitals.... by a few of these "suicidal stupids".

Not plausible, you say? You keep thinking that. You won't think it's so funny.
 Quoting: ASV 4399988


If you're happy to be some rich tent dwelling degenerates butt bitch, feel free.
 Quoting: Marxist


You know, for a pseudo-intellectual dinosaur, your reading comprehension is stunning lacking.

1) It's hilarious reading you and the indignant pink AC squabble, beating that dead horse & simulteneously trying to get it to the nearest water supply, as it were. Guess whgat, clowns? Nobody gives a flying Ron Paul about Communism/Socialism. It's over. Them bumbs lost, Mr. Lebowaski. You lost. The body-count from your little experiment stalking the globe is 150 million and counting. And please don't saying something as predictable & pathetic as "Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot perverted the teachings, ablablabla woof woof". LOL

2) I AM that degenerate that's on fast-track to running shit. While your ilk will still get owned by every Madrassa mongoloid. Stock up on vaseline, Karlo.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
I will end this debate with these closing thoughts. I despise Islam and all muslims. You are a pox on this planet. I fully support capital kicking the shit out of this empire which thinks it has the right to invade the lands of others, to move into our neighbourhoods and dictate their mumbo jumbo to the rest of us yet demand justice from us. Yes, the sooner they reduce this arsehole of a region to dust, the better.
 Quoting: Marxist


The Holy Islamic Empire (using mercenaries controlled by the CIA, backed by SArabia armed by the Pentagon). Wrong script and wrong Empire, Aussi. Maybe China will save you...
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 01:39 AM
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Re: BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
You are a pox on this planet.

HAHAHA. Sensitive much? I realized your shallowness the moment you refused to prove your claims....

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