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Message Subject BREAKING: FSA Formally Announces Battle for Damascus Has Begun. Assad Ready to Talk
Poster Handle Marxist
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Aaah the familiar socialism in one country theme, especially peasant societes. It will not work whilst capital is globalising, now matter how many crocodile tears you shed on the world stage. Once the forces of capital were unleashed, the globalising process, a genie that cannot be put away, was set free. Saddam and Ghadaffis major mistake was continuing to ally themselves with the Arab Empire (you aren't going to tell me that both countries abandoned Islam in an act of pure secularism) and and not allying themselves with like forces in countries such as Cuba in a regional bloc. That would have affordrd them some protection and probably delayed the inevitable day when they were eventually absorbed by capital, with less ignominy. The USSR and China are testimony to the bogus socialism in one country myth.

As for the Arab Empire of which they continued to participate, this is a shambolic structure which affords no one but a feudal elite any relief, not even the basic modernity that accompanies a societies transition from barbarian to capital. Islam is still barbarian and displays all the naivete of the barbarian in as much as it demands justice whilst engaging in the continued expansion of its brute and backwards social economy. So a resounding YES to the fall of this filthy empire to capital. The sooner the better.

I will be dancing with unmitigated joy when the Arab Empire falls to capitalism. As a global humanity, we can then proceed to real progress. Any simpleton who sees common cause with this backwardness is next to bloody useless in the struggle and might as well piss off.
 Quoting: Marxist

I couldnt agree more for the Emirates and SArabia even though they have plenty of Capital investment, but contract to Indian and Malay second class "guest" (and US) workers the dirty manual labour of grand construction and military projects -- building a revolutionary class from a managerial aristocracy in a klepto monarchy is hardly a base to achieve much. Syria isnt that way. Neither was Iraq or Libya. Their working class/peasant mix was rather modern, and far from the feudal Islamic system you presume. So wrong again. But when will you recognize it and stop equating these secular societies albeit predominantly Islamic religious societies, with Islamic Republics (of which they definitely are/were not)? And another contradiction: if you want "progress" to global capitalism why support their overthrow by the very backward jihadist Wahabbis you supposedly abhor? It seems you support the opposite of what you say you want...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202

We have a similar setup in capitalism with social democrats whom Marx incidentally viewed as obstructiuonists to the expansion of capital and the play out of dialectioc forces. In contrast he preferred the free market.

These Islamic "secular" republics simply delay the necessary collapse of Islam and grant it an extension that hampers the development of these peoples. For all their so-called secularism, Iraqis were still a backwards people who saw the world in terms of believers and unbelievers, albeit in a padded cell, at Saddams removal.

In contrast, the Islamist revolution in Egypt has opened up a can of worms which threatens to unseat Islam and its sway over these people.

Now if Saddam and Assad had said, we are done with Islam and embracing neutral secularism, then one could see that as a positive development.

It is not the role of progressives to choose the lesser of two evils but to ensure that all the forces that cause change are given an unfettered play.

Whilst I can see why some support limited progress, it achieves nothing in the long term other than to corrupt political awareness.
 Quoting: Marxist

The foreign Wahabbi jihadists trained killers also want to get rid of all vestiges of secular social democraticism and the their institutions in the ME -- their interests align with that of big global Capital. Now why would market capitalist "forces" have common interest with these fighters wannabe leaders of a pan Arabic Midaevil Islamic feudal Caliphate? And how would Marx see your support for them as progress? Beats me. The Trot desire for a World revolution makes strange bedfellows, I guess-...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202

I dont suport the jihadists. However, I see Assad's fall as a direct consequence of his incompetence and ambivalence. Having said that, one can hope that the rise of this extremism will hasten the collapse of Islam which it has to be said, Assad and his ilk tried to render a little more acceptable.
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