Quoting: Marxist Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202 Quoting: Marxist
... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32967202
You are both supporting US expansionism and SArabian complicity, so what's the problem? I read your words, and hear your justifications. Dont expect your convoluted worldview to carry your argument, though. That kind of "depth" is wonting. Next time respond to queries, prove your case, and tone down the dogma. And please, dont take the GLP low road of invoking the "us against me" cracker tone. It's just you and me, babe. No one else...
You need to get your facts right as well. Its Arab expansionism and American oil issues. After all, just how many Arab states accommodate foreigners to the degree that the America you so hate accommodates you fellows. I have met a few indigenous Hindu Kashmiris who spoke eloquently of the Arab expansionism that drove them from their ancient homelands. Evidently, its ok for muslims to have a need for ethnically cleansed territories.
So I would suggest that you might want to tone down the victim role. Just about no one takes you guys serious. Marxists such as myself may advise you to rid yourselves of Islam. You can take that advice or leave it. Your going to get your arse handed to you by capital however in this battle. It has a bigger following worldwide, from the Far East to Latin America, despite appearances snd they just aren't going to drop that cvonnection for crazy muslims.
You are attacking the player and not the puck -- a sure sign you are shallow. Why cant you defend your assertions? I was interested in your analysis at first, it was tight. But then I pried it opened to see if it had substance, but you squandered your opportunity by changing your arguments completely. What's with that? What happened to worker's rights, Aussie? I'm still stuck way back on why you think the secular regimes of Syria, Libya and Iraq were using and supporting the Wahhabi terrorist enterprise? And why isnt it in workers interest (and worthy of your support) to build on the institutions that were built in these countries?
Then you veered to justifying foreign invasions and the consequent destruction of these institutions as preferable..
Now you seem to be relishing in the punishment of these populations for their misguided or intolerant religious views. And damn the workers!, the real cause is implementing Capitalism by force and from outside because it is better than an Islamic Empire. A humanitarian rescue operation!
That for some paranoid reason you now think me an agent of this Islamic Empire. And that I should "give it up", and fight the Muslim disease in Mexico. Jeez, you'd think I would be more concerned about worker's and peasant's rights and not some obscure religion in a majority Catholic country! Dont get me wrong,,, I dont trust organized religion esp of the evangelical kind,,,, you know, the ones that dont tolerate competition, whose members often revert to violence to quench their Church's thirst for souls, and generally complicating social relations and discourse.
So now you want me to engage to their level and try to unconvert people, to crusade against the Muslim religion in particular because, hey!, they are an Empire at the gates and will take over if I become complacent. To stand on a soup box, perhaps? A non believer trying to save the souls of believers. Ironic, eh?
So what of all the other issues, Aussie? Am I supposed to accept your premise and ignore these less loftier (and naive, in your words) causes to the greater threat?
You are all over the map, Aussie. But by all means if that is how you wish to struggle in Aussie land, tell me how it works out for you...
Just about every other country has adapted to capital whilst accepting the consequences of modernity in the march to globalisation apart from the Arab Empire which is largely composed of a narrow feudal elite and a largely disemployed peasant class, many of whom would rather relocate to the West. If you do not understand the dynamics of the globalisation of accumulation, instead treating the whole exercise as some conspiracy to deprive you of the right to pray 5 times a day to some moon based god, you haven't understood Marxist analysis. Marx was not in the business of charity. For that you go to Oxfam. He merely delineated the forces that would ultimately give rise to a global culture, taking all parochialism along with it. Islam with its vast imperial impact resists this and its apologists have the habit of trying to take the high ground. There is no high ground. You adapt or globalisation will destroy you.
So how were Syria, Libya and Iraq not on this road you so charitably advise them to take? It seems they were/are. So is Iran for that matter. Pursuing industrialization, capital accumulation, and the subsequent transformation away from a peasant feudal society. So you are on shaky ground, here, not giving a factual analysis.
The groups that wish to "turn the clock back" are Wahabbi jihadi terrorist groups that are funded primarily by the monarchies of the Gulf,,, Pakistan being the notable exception. The USA also being the notable exception. Their geopolitical importance by the West is part of the historical record, re Brezinski's tome, and is no secret that these jihadi veterans are still under the control of Washington and Riyad and Islamabad (even though the foot soldiers may not know it themselves). Granted they are a dangerous snake to control, but control they are nonetheless. Granted some sprout off and go independent, but are of little consequence without arms and money. The main thrust of their efforts invariably coincides with the bigger picture players have set out for them. (I wont even go into what I think that is,,, not yet anyway).
I could prove these assertions if you like, it is not made up.
Now your wacky conclusions: we support the West's support of fanatical Islamic terrorists who wish to extend an Islamic caliphate so as to overturn an Islamic Empire. We destroy their secular govts and destroy their drive to industrialize, destroy their health and education institutions, their modernizing infrastructure, so they can modernize and industrialize based on the globalized consumer and financial US model we all know. And finally, we destroy these populations religious beliefs by imposing a super intolerant government of these same fanatics, so as to discredit the Islamic religion...
Is that about it?