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HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?

 
*HEISENBERG*
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02/07/2013 05:05 PM
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HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 05:06 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
let them be free since most mental disease is caused by psychological trauma in their enviroment
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 05:07 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Have'em come to GLP.

We shall "rehabilitate" them

scheming
 Quoting: Open Your Eyes


lol, or most come from here...
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 05:12 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Have'em come to GLP.

We shall "rehabilitate" them

scheming
 Quoting: Open Your Eyes


lol, or most come from here...
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


It's the chicken or egg dilemma.

Which came first - GLP or the mentally ill?
 Quoting: Open Your Eyes


One may have exacerbated the other.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 05:16 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
...


lol, or most come from here...
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


It's the chicken or egg dilemma.

Which came first - GLP or the mentally ill?
 Quoting: Open Your Eyes


One may have exacerbated the other.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


And like Ouroboros we are part of the Circle of Life.

And Ouroboros is hungry again. For Tail.
 Quoting: Open Your Eyes


ahhh
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 05:21 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
I think society should be structured to shelter the mentally ill.
Anyone faking it goes to jail.

What do we do with PTSD? Part time jobs, rehab, counseling
music therapy, etc. help heal the mind and soul, most people want to heal and get on with life.
Maybe types of careers where the pay might not be so great but are less stressful.

It is foolish to continue to ignore the problem
because some types who never want to grow up would take advantage of society.
I think we can figure this one out, don't you.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 05:28 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
I think society should be structured to shelter the mentally ill.
Anyone faking it goes to jail.

What do we do with PTSD? Part time jobs, rehab, counseling
music therapy, etc. help heal the mind and soul, most people want to heal and get on with life.
Maybe types of careers where the pay might not be so great but are less stressful.

It is foolish to continue to ignore the problem
because some types who never want to grow up would take advantage of society.
I think we can figure this one out, don't you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33372311


Yes, that's why I pose the question.

You have some good solutions. But what about the difficulty in diagnosing everyone who needs a diagnoses?
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 05:30 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
A different question would be, do we actually need to do anything different in regard to the mentally ill.

Yes, a very tiny percentage of the population commits violent acts and yes, that's not a good thing.

But the cost of stripping rights from people is never equal to the situation at hand, is it?

A tiny very little, fraction of gun crimes or very violent acts are committed by people that would be caught by mental health screenings easily.

But about twenty percent of the population would have to have their rights taken away, even though most of them will never have a real problem with violence.

Ever been diagnosed with Depression? Every just felt sad for no real reason? How about anxiety? Or maybe you just get angry every now and then in a way that scares other people? Or are you one of those people that get's frightened too easily?

All of those people would be stripped of weapons.

That's the core of the Republican party listed there!

Far more people would have their lives made worse, be labeled unstable and potentially dangerous, and be turned into second or third class citizens than would ever be saved by such measures.

It isn't as if we can pinpoint only those that will commit violent crimes after all.

Maybe it's better to do nothing?
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 05:33 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
A different question would be, do we actually need to do anything different in regard to the mentally ill.

Yes, a very tiny percentage of the population commits violent acts and yes, that's not a good thing.

But the cost of stripping rights from people is never equal to the situation at hand, is it?
A tiny very little, fraction of gun crimes or very violent acts are committed by people that would be caught by mental health screenings easily.

But about twenty percent of the population would have to have their rights taken away, even though most of them will never have a real problem with violence.

Ever been diagnosed with Depression? Every just felt sad for no real reason? How about anxiety? Or maybe you just get angry every now and then in a way that scares other people? Or are you one of those people that get's frightened too easily?

All of those people would be stripped of weapons.

That's the core of the Republican party listed there!

Far more people would have their lives made worse, be labeled unstable and potentially dangerous, and be turned into second or third class citizens than would ever be saved by such measures.

It isn't as if we can pinpoint only those that will commit violent crimes after all.

Maybe it's better to do nothing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1071414


That statement is the reason I started this thread, with these questions. You are right...

Is it more costly to do nothing, or to over react?

Good post AC
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 05:39 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
shamans
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02/07/2013 05:40 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
shamans
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


ok... 1dunno1
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 05:41 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
In my opinion the problem comes with discerning between stress/trauma based illness and arrested character development
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 05:42 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
In my opinion the problem comes with discerning between stress/trauma based illness and arrested character development
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33372311


That is true, but does either come with any more predictable behavior than the other?
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02/07/2013 05:51 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
garden therapy
CeeLite

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02/07/2013 05:52 PM

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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Pin suggested, interesting topic!
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
garden therapy
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Could you explain that please?
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 05:53 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Pin suggested, interesting topic!
 Quoting: CeeLite


Thanks!

I think it's an important topic
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 05:57 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
garden therapy
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Could you explain that please?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Like offering people healing therapy through the planting, maintenance and growing of gardens. It's a win win situation, because people will make the world more beautiful for themselves and others as they regain connection to the world.
The therapy would be good, because gardening is not authoritarian and heavy handed.
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02/07/2013 06:01 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
shamans
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


ok... 1dunno1
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Yes. Shamans -- magicians, people or entities who help people to find the lost parts of their soul and reintegrate them so they can be whole again.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:02 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
how do you define mentally ill?according to the new DSM we are all mentally ill.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:02 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
politely ask the government not to use them for mass killing psyops?
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
garden therapy
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Could you explain that please?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Like offering people healing therapy through the planting, maintenance and growing of gardens. It's a win win situation, because people will make the world more beautiful for themselves and others as they regain connection to the world.
The therapy would be good, because gardening is not authoritarian and heavy handed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Hmmm....very interesting idea. I like it. Is it something that is used now? Are there any studies to see if it works or not?
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
shamans
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


ok... 1dunno1
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Yes. Shamans -- magicians, people or entities who help people to find the lost parts of their soul and reintegrate them so they can be whole again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


So in essance you are reffering to spiritual healing?
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
how do you define mentally ill?according to the new DSM we are all mentally ill.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15988211


Yea, I touched on that in the OP, that is a huge issue.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
politely ask the government not to use them for mass killing psyops?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31974010


hahahaha

Great post!
CeeLite

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02/07/2013 06:07 PM

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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
politely ask the government not to use them for mass killing psyops?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31974010


hahahaha

Great post!
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Yeah THAT
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:07 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
everyone is mentally ill these days.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:08 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
everyone is mentally ill these days.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33897541


5a
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02/07/2013 06:09 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
A real examination and study of whether and how the current system of public schooling, and it's inherent social structures, might be negatively impacting a person's development, alienating and inflicting trauma and retarding the development of self and character.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:10 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
A real examination and study of whether and how the current system of public schooling, and it's inherent social structures, might be negatively impacting a person's development, alienating and inflicting trauma and retarding the development of self and character.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


You don't think schools and children have had the same basic social structures since forever?
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02/07/2013 06:12 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
shamans
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


ok... 1dunno1
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Yes. Shamans -- magicians, people or entities who help people to find the lost parts of their soul and reintegrate them so they can be whole again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


So in essance you are reffering to spiritual healing?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Yes. Psychotherapy and psychiatry while some of it is good and well, is not REALLY spiritual healing, really...it's essentially atheistic and that is why it cannot ever really reintegrate a person's soul. It ignores the reality of the soul. I'd say maybe Jungian therapy would be an exception, but then you are going full circle back to something like shamanism.

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