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HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?

 
CeeLite

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02/07/2013 06:12 PM

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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Hoping others suggest pin as well..
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:13 PM
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...


ok... 1dunno1
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Yes. Shamans -- magicians, people or entities who help people to find the lost parts of their soul and reintegrate them so they can be whole again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


So in essance you are reffering to spiritual healing?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Yes. Psychotherapy and psychiatry while some of it is good and well, is not REALLY spiritual healing, really...it's essentially atheistic and that is why it cannot ever really reintegrate a person's soul. It ignores the reality of the soul. I'd say maybe Jungian therapy would be an exception, but then you are going full circle back to something like shamanism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Well, I completely agree we should keep spritual healing on the table. I know when I neglect my spirituality I physically feel it.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:13 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Hoping others suggest pin as well..
 Quoting: CeeLite


hf
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:14 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


i havent completely formulated an opinion on this subject yet but it is a question that needs to be answered.

if we were still living the hunter/gatherer lifestyle nature would take it's course with the mentally ill.....but no one wants to hear that.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:14 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
A real examination and study of whether and how the current system of public schooling, and it's inherent social structures, might be negatively impacting a person's development, alienating and inflicting trauma and retarding the development of self and character.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


You don't think schools and children have had the same basic social structures since forever?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Not at all. Haven't you ever read john taylor gatto's An Underground History of American Education? Have you ever thought about how schools were in our country in the days of the one room school house? Or when most people were homeschooled? You need to look at this book. The very purpose of school is to basically drive people a bit insane, for the purpose of consumerism and work force training.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:16 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


i havent completely formulated an opinion on this subject yet but it is a question that needs to be answered.

if we were still living the hunter/gatherer lifestyle nature would take it's course with the mentally ill.....but no one wants to hear that.
 Quoting: Oyster


It is a very complicated issue. I honestly am pretty stumped, it's hard to come up with a solution that does not infringe on peoples rights.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:17 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*



Here is the problem - WHO makes the call whether a person is mentally ill? Remember the psychs will soon all work under Obamacare. There is a MAJOR conflict of interest.

Fact is, if a person is hell-bent on harm, they will find a way to harm others gun or no-gun. Taking away guns from the rest of us, or giving the government psychiatrists the ability to say yes/no creates more problems than it solves.

I posted an article yesterday about a bill to scan every public school/homeschool child in CT for mental illness. This is what will happen, nationwide.

You cannot create a perfect society.
You cannot eliminate risk.

Everytime we try to do this, we lose more freedoms.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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United States
02/07/2013 06:17 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
A real examination and study of whether and how the current system of public schooling, and it's inherent social structures, might be negatively impacting a person's development, alienating and inflicting trauma and retarding the development of self and character.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


You don't think schools and children have had the same basic social structures since forever?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Not at all. Haven't you ever read john taylor gatto's An Underground History of American Education? Have you ever thought about how schools were in our country in the days of the one room school house? Or when most people were homeschooled? You need to look at this book. The very purpose of school is to basically drive people a bit insane, for the purpose of consumerism and work force training.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Ok, I understand what you're saying.

I will have to check that book out. Sounds interesting.

Thanks!
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

User ID: 14560333
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02/07/2013 06:19 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*



Here is the problem - WHO makes the call whether a person is mentally ill? Remember the psychs will soon all work under Obamacare. There is a MAJOR conflict of interest.

Fact is, if a person is hell-bent on harm, they will find a way to harm others gun or no-gun. Taking away guns from the rest of us, or giving the government psychiatrists the ability to say yes/no creates more problems than it solves.

I posted an article yesterday about a bill to scan every public school/homeschool child in CT for mental illness. This is what will happen, nationwide.

You cannot create a perfect society.
You cannot eliminate risk.

Everytime we try to do this, we lose more freedoms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33876950


I absolutely agree.

Which is why I made this thread, wondering if anyone out there has any solutions I havn't heard or thought of yet.

Because like I said, every solution I hear infringes on our rights.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:19 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


sure there are so many mentally ill? i think its a sympthom of something..

i thought/hoped i was crazy some years ago.. ive been depressed, and ive known this world would go to hell.. i wanted to think i was crazy.. now i know im not crazy, because what i see is too obious to be imagination and it all makes sense

i could see the world we live in today when i was 15-16 years old .. all you do is think in lines, and you'll know how the future will be. I knew things we learned in school was false/propaganda and destructive.

so i read lots, some things i think "sounds logical, but the world cant be this crazy" ... until i get it confirmed.. that way i gradually learned how the world works

hollywood also tells you alot in their movies.. from matrix and onwards

so im not crazy, but thinking/hoping i have been have destroyed much of my life
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:19 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:20 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
A real examination and study of whether and how the current system of public schooling, and it's inherent social structures, might be negatively impacting a person's development, alienating and inflicting trauma and retarding the development of self and character.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


You don't think schools and children have had the same basic social structures since forever?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Not at all. Haven't you ever read john taylor gatto's An Underground History of American Education? Have you ever thought about how schools were in our country in the days of the one room school house? Or when most people were homeschooled? You need to look at this book. The very purpose of school is to basically drive people a bit insane, for the purpose of consumerism and work force training.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Here you go, it is free to read off his website:

[link to www.johntaylorgatto.com]

Our schools are made to fracture our psyche. It's only getting worst, I believe, at the behest of pharmaceutical interest groups. I think children today are basically going through a process of gaslighting. Schools demand they start academic work much too early, teaching to the test, a disconnect from nature, lack of recess, lack of art, music or anything healing, silly rules and punishments due to zero tolerance policies, teachers who are not adequately trained to deal with their classrooms so they pressure parents to put children on drugs. Any child who is not perfectly conforming is being driven crazy, and even labelled as such or in need of evaluation. Then, they are drugged...
And drugging is another major factor in why so many are mentally ill. These drugs make a child who was going through a difficult, yet normal, phase into a permanent customer.

Most of the shootings are tied to pharmaceuticals.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:22 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
A real examination and study of whether and how the current system of public schooling, and it's inherent social structures, might be negatively impacting a person's development, alienating and inflicting trauma and retarding the development of self and character.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


You don't think schools and children have had the same basic social structures since forever?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Not at all. Haven't you ever read john taylor gatto's An Underground History of American Education? Have you ever thought about how schools were in our country in the days of the one room school house? Or when most people were homeschooled? You need to look at this book. The very purpose of school is to basically drive people a bit insane, for the purpose of consumerism and work force training.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Here you go, it is free to read off his website:

[link to www.johntaylorgatto.com]

Our schools are made to fracture our psyche. It's only getting worst, I believe, at the behest of pharmaceutical interest groups. I think children today are basically going through a process of gaslighting. Schools demand they start academic work much too early, teaching to the test, a disconnect from nature, lack of recess, lack of art, music or anything healing, silly rules and punishments due to zero tolerance policies, teachers who are not adequately trained to deal with their classrooms so they pressure parents to put children on drugs. Any child who is not perfectly conforming is being driven crazy, and even labelled as such or in need of evaluation. Then, they are drugged...
And drugging is another major factor in why so many are mentally ill. These drugs make a child who was going through a difficult, yet normal, phase into a permanent customer.

Most of the shootings are tied to pharmaceuticals.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Thank you very much!

I do agree about the drug companies and their drugs having major influence on these shootings.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:26 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Help the mentally ill who desire, to become independent from (versus dependent) on their families, who are often a deep part of the problem. They need to be able to get away from a family who might be contributing to their madness. I don't know, secluded cabins with people to help if they want and a little job to do to cover costs or something...
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:27 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Peter Breggin is a critic of psychiatric drugs:

[link to www.breggin.com]
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:27 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Help the mentally ill who desire, to become independent from (versus dependent) on their families, who are often a deep part of the problem. They need to be able to get away from a family who might be contributing to their madness. I don't know, secluded cabins with people to help if they want and a little job to do to cover costs or something...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


But wouldn't they need supervision at this "camp"?

Same as being under the care of their families.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:28 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Peter Breggin is a critic of psychiatric drugs:

[link to www.breggin.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


As am I.

Thanks for the link.
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:32 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*



Here is the problem - WHO makes the call whether a person is mentally ill? Remember the psychs will soon all work under Obamacare. There is a MAJOR conflict of interest.

Fact is, if a person is hell-bent on harm, they will find a way to harm others gun or no-gun. Taking away guns from the rest of us, or giving the government psychiatrists the ability to say yes/no creates more problems than it solves.

I posted an article yesterday about a bill to scan every public school/homeschool child in CT for mental illness. This is what will happen, nationwide.

You cannot create a perfect society.
You cannot eliminate risk.

Everytime we try to do this, we lose more freedoms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33876950


I absolutely agree.

Which is why I made this thread, wondering if anyone out there has any solutions I havn't heard or thought of yet.

Because like I said, every solution I hear infringes on our rights.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


The answer may lie in empowering families. Right now it is hard to get the help a mentally ill family member needs. The best and least affordable option is a 1 on 1 caregiver.

A more affordable option could be therapeutic group homes. When and how a person is placed in one is up to the family not the gov't (and requires so many family members to agree to commit). Not perfect, but heck of a lot better than jail or the streets which is where most of these folks end up.

Before people have a fit - remember nursing homes are the same thing. People are typically there because they have a condition too overwhelming for the families to handle.

That's an immediate fix, but long term we need to have a serious discussion of societal breakdown, bad medications and more.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:34 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*



Here is the problem - WHO makes the call whether a person is mentally ill? Remember the psychs will soon all work under Obamacare. There is a MAJOR conflict of interest.

Fact is, if a person is hell-bent on harm, they will find a way to harm others gun or no-gun. Taking away guns from the rest of us, or giving the government psychiatrists the ability to say yes/no creates more problems than it solves.

I posted an article yesterday about a bill to scan every public school/homeschool child in CT for mental illness. This is what will happen, nationwide.

You cannot create a perfect society.
You cannot eliminate risk.

Everytime we try to do this, we lose more freedoms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33876950


I absolutely agree.

Which is why I made this thread, wondering if anyone out there has any solutions I havn't heard or thought of yet.

Because like I said, every solution I hear infringes on our rights.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


The answer may lie in empowering families. Right now it is hard to get the help a mentally ill family member needs. The best and least affordable option is a 1 on 1 caregiver.

A more affordable option could be therapeutic group homes. When and how a person is placed in one is up to the family not the gov't (and requires so many family members to agree to commit). Not perfect, but heck of a lot better than jail or the streets which is where most of these folks end up.

Before people have a fit - remember nursing homes are the same thing. People are typically there because they have a condition too overwhelming for the families to handle.

That's an immediate fix, but long term we need to have a serious discussion of societal breakdown, bad medications and more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33876950


I think you are spot on with the short term fix.

The power should all be with the family. Government should stay out of it. It can be very hard for a family to get the help they require, how can we make that easier?

Maybe instead of federal funded programs, we could put that money at the local level?
Anonymous Cowherder
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02/07/2013 06:35 PM

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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Bill Hicks had the solution when he said that marijuana should not only be legal, but should also be mandatory.
I'm a Libertarian Constitutionalist.

I don't give a shit what you do with your own life, whether you make it a success or a failure, that is an outcome of the choices you make, but please take responsibility for yourself and don't make ME pay for YOUR choices and we're all good.

Repeal the 17th Amendment and the Apportionment Act of 1911!

Thread: First steps down the road to a return to the Constitutional Republic that we were intended to be.

Restore the Republic.

It's a flower, not something to be feared.

cow - Moo!
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:36 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Character development. We should help our children and friends with character development. I used to have some bad character and thinking habits -- self pity, lack of confidence, a negative world view, perfectionism. Simply changing those things, changes so much. Focusing on improving character, would help all of us and probably prevent or heal some of the more mild mental illness. You can't force this on people, but self help could be available for free.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:37 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Bill Hicks had the solution when he said that marijuana should not only be legal, but should also be mandatory.
 Quoting: Anonymous Cowherder


hahaha

I'll stoner to that!
Anonymous Coward
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02/07/2013 06:37 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Help the mentally ill who desire, to become independent from (versus dependent) on their families, who are often a deep part of the problem. They need to be able to get away from a family who might be contributing to their madness. I don't know, secluded cabins with people to help if they want and a little job to do to cover costs or something...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


But wouldn't they need supervision at this "camp"?

Same as being under the care of their families.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Perhaps...but I'm speaking of a voluntary situation with quite a bit of freedom. Not a controlling mind game with experts and authoritarianism.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:38 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Character development. We should help our children and friends with character development. I used to have some bad character and thinking habits -- self pity, lack of confidence, a negative world view, perfectionism. Simply changing those things, changes so much. Focusing on improving character, would help all of us and probably prevent or heal some of the more mild mental illness. You can't force this on people, but self help could be available for free.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Character development is a great idea. Especially for children and teens. Their character is still in the process of forming
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:39 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Help the mentally ill who desire, to become independent from (versus dependent) on their families, who are often a deep part of the problem. They need to be able to get away from a family who might be contributing to their madness. I don't know, secluded cabins with people to help if they want and a little job to do to cover costs or something...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


But wouldn't they need supervision at this "camp"?

Same as being under the care of their families.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Perhaps...but I'm speaking of a voluntary situation with quite a bit of freedom. Not a controlling mind game with experts and authoritarianism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


I see. That seems like it would invite all mentally ill because they wouldn't be under supervision. Then they could/would take advantage of that.

Maybe, I'm just trying to play devils advocate and see all sides to this.
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02/07/2013 06:43 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Help the mentally ill who desire, to become independent from (versus dependent) on their families, who are often a deep part of the problem. They need to be able to get away from a family who might be contributing to their madness. I don't know, secluded cabins with people to help if they want and a little job to do to cover costs or something...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


But wouldn't they need supervision at this "camp"?

Same as being under the care of their families.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


I'm sorry...I need to clarify. I personally believe that there are many mentally ill people who are basically coming from very dysfunctional families who pretty much gaslight them, or drive them crazy....or, when they are crazy, keep them crazy. I know that is an unpopular theory, but I've seen this dynamic personally. A family might not even mean to harm a person, but people labelled "mentally ill" are often extremely sensitive, and their family could be causing problems. They need to be free of that dynamic to heal.

Pharma companies don't want to "go there", because their bread and butter is that all illness is based in the brain, for instance...the set up organizations to support families that pretty much reassure families it's all in the "mentally ill" person's head.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:46 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
Help the mentally ill who desire, to become independent from (versus dependent) on their families, who are often a deep part of the problem. They need to be able to get away from a family who might be contributing to their madness. I don't know, secluded cabins with people to help if they want and a little job to do to cover costs or something...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


But wouldn't they need supervision at this "camp"?

Same as being under the care of their families.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


I'm sorry...I need to clarify. I personally believe that there are many mentally ill people who are basically coming from very dysfunctional families who pretty much gaslight them, or drive them crazy....or, when they are crazy, keep them crazy. I know that is an unpopular theory, but I've seen this dynamic personally. A family might not even mean to harm a person, but people labelled "mentally ill" are often extremely sensitive, and their family could be causing problems. They need to be free of that dynamic to heal.

Pharma companies don't want to "go there", because their bread and butter is that all illness is based in the brain, for instance...the set up organizations to support families that pretty much reassure families it's all in the "mentally ill" person's head.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


I understand, and agree it could play a role.
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02/07/2013 06:47 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

This is Dr. John Breeding, Ph.D

I'm putting up one of his videos, but they are all really great. He has some about children, that you can look up on Youtube.
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02/07/2013 06:51 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
...



Here is the problem - WHO makes the call whether a person is mentally ill? Remember the psychs will soon all work under Obamacare. There is a MAJOR conflict of interest.

Fact is, if a person is hell-bent on harm, they will find a way to harm others gun or no-gun. Taking away guns from the rest of us, or giving the government psychiatrists the ability to say yes/no creates more problems than it solves.

I posted an article yesterday about a bill to scan every public school/homeschool child in CT for mental illness. This is what will happen, nationwide.

You cannot create a perfect society.
You cannot eliminate risk.

Everytime we try to do this, we lose more freedoms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33876950


I absolutely agree.

Which is why I made this thread, wondering if anyone out there has any solutions I havn't heard or thought of yet.

Because like I said, every solution I hear infringes on our rights.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


The answer may lie in empowering families. Right now it is hard to get the help a mentally ill family member needs. The best and least affordable option is a 1 on 1 caregiver.

A more affordable option could be therapeutic group homes. When and how a person is placed in one is up to the family not the gov't (and requires so many family members to agree to commit). Not perfect, but heck of a lot better than jail or the streets which is where most of these folks end up.

Before people have a fit - remember nursing homes are the same thing. People are typically there because they have a condition too overwhelming for the families to handle.

That's an immediate fix, but long term we need to have a serious discussion of societal breakdown, bad medications and more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33876950


I think you are spot on with the short term fix.

The power should all be with the family. Government should stay out of it. It can be very hard for a family to get the help they require, how can we make that easier?

Maybe instead of federal funded programs, we could put that money at the local level?
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


Well, the expense of just a few "urgent care" mental hospital stays for a patient could probably pay for a group home for that same person for a year.
*HEISENBERG* (OP)

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02/07/2013 06:54 PM
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Re: HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

This is Dr. John Breeding, Ph.D

I'm putting up one of his videos, but they are all really great. He has some about children, that you can look up on Youtube.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440


Thanks!

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