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| 05:21 PM | ||
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HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY? | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 31862440  United States02/07/2013 06:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] This is Dr. John Breeding, Ph.D I'm putting up one of his videos, but they are all really great. He has some about children, that you can look up on Youtube. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 33876950 United States02/07/2013 06:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33876950 Here is the problem - WHO makes the call whether a person is mentally ill? Remember the psychs will soon all work under Obamacare. There is a MAJOR conflict of interest. Fact is, if a person is hell-bent on harm, they will find a way to harm others gun or no-gun. Taking away guns from the rest of us, or giving the government psychiatrists the ability to say yes/no creates more problems than it solves. I posted an article yesterday about a bill to scan every public school/homeschool child in CT for mental illness. This is what will happen, nationwide. You cannot create a perfect society. You cannot eliminate risk. Everytime we try to do this, we lose more freedoms. I absolutely agree. Which is why I made this thread, wondering if anyone out there has any solutions I havn't heard or thought of yet. Because like I said, every solution I hear infringes on our rights. The answer may lie in empowering families. Right now it is hard to get the help a mentally ill family member needs. The best and least affordable option is a 1 on 1 caregiver. A more affordable option could be therapeutic group homes. When and how a person is placed in one is up to the family not the gov't (and requires so many family members to agree to commit). Not perfect, but heck of a lot better than jail or the streets which is where most of these folks end up. Before people have a fit - remember nursing homes are the same thing. People are typically there because they have a condition too overwhelming for the families to handle. That's an immediate fix, but long term we need to have a serious discussion of societal breakdown, bad medications and more. I think you are spot on with the short term fix. The power should all be with the family. Government should stay out of it. It can be very hard for a family to get the help they require, how can we make that easier? Maybe instead of federal funded programs, we could put that money at the local level? Well, the expense of just a few "urgent care" mental hospital stays for a patient could probably pay for a group home for that same person for a year. |
| *HEISENBERG* (OP) I bleed orange and black  User ID: 14560333 United States02/07/2013 06:54 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [link to www.youtube.com (secure)] Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440 This is Dr. John Breeding, Ph.D I'm putting up one of his videos, but they are all really great. He has some about children, that you can look up on Youtube. Thanks! Formerly:Michael Bolton Negan, Rick Grimes, Heisenberg, Charlie Scene, “The Fourth Amendment is clear; we should be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, and all warrants must have probable cause. Today the government operates largely in secret, while seeking to know everything about our private lives – without probable cause and without a warrant. The government does not need to know more about what we are doing. We need to know more about what the government is doing.”-Ron Paul |
| *HEISENBERG* (OP) I bleed orange and black User ID: 14560333 United States02/07/2013 06:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: *HEISENBERG* I absolutely agree. Which is why I made this thread, wondering if anyone out there has any solutions I havn't heard or thought of yet. Because like I said, every solution I hear infringes on our rights. The answer may lie in empowering families. Right now it is hard to get the help a mentally ill family member needs. The best and least affordable option is a 1 on 1 caregiver. A more affordable option could be therapeutic group homes. When and how a person is placed in one is up to the family not the gov't (and requires so many family members to agree to commit). Not perfect, but heck of a lot better than jail or the streets which is where most of these folks end up. Before people have a fit - remember nursing homes are the same thing. People are typically there because they have a condition too overwhelming for the families to handle. That's an immediate fix, but long term we need to have a serious discussion of societal breakdown, bad medications and more. I think you are spot on with the short term fix. The power should all be with the family. Government should stay out of it. It can be very hard for a family to get the help they require, how can we make that easier? Maybe instead of federal funded programs, we could put that money at the local level? Well, the expense of just a few "urgent care" mental hospital stays for a patient could probably pay for a group home for that same person for a year. Very true. Good call. Formerly:Michael Bolton Negan, Rick Grimes, Heisenberg, Charlie Scene, “The Fourth Amendment is clear; we should be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, and all warrants must have probable cause. Today the government operates largely in secret, while seeking to know everything about our private lives – without probable cause and without a warrant. The government does not need to know more about what we are doing. We need to know more about what the government is doing.”-Ron Paul |
| MONSTER User ID: 2122560 United States02/07/2013 06:59 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They are trying to say all murders are mentally ill. They are just bad people  KINGDOMS, NATIONS AND KINGS HAVE BEEN BROUGHT DOWN TO THEIR KNEES WITH ONE GLANCE FROM A WOMAN. I WEAR MY SKIN OF ARMOR SO NO ONE CAN GET IN AND NO ONE CAN GET OUT. HOW CAN I MOURN YOU, WHEN I HAVE NEVER LET YOU GO, monster 1991-2008 RIP |
| *HEISENBERG* (OP) I bleed orange and black User ID: 14560333 United States02/07/2013 07:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Can you define a "bad person" Formerly:Michael Bolton Negan, Rick Grimes, Heisenberg, Charlie Scene, “The Fourth Amendment is clear; we should be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, and all warrants must have probable cause. Today the government operates largely in secret, while seeking to know everything about our private lives – without probable cause and without a warrant. The government does not need to know more about what we are doing. We need to know more about what the government is doing.”-Ron Paul |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 31862440 United States02/07/2013 07:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The psychiatric pharmaceutical industry is just not there to "heal" anyone, just keep people "mentally ill" by labeling them. It is there to shut people up and scapegoat them for the ills of the world. Truth telling, on the other hand, is a healing force. There are real demons and spiritual demons in our world and in our lives, and they manifest in broken psyches and soul loss. Personal, Political, Spiritual truth... |
| spoof User ID: 1231023 United States02/07/2013 07:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I've stuggled with this myself, but I am certain of one thing. This is not a question that will be answered best by the Federal government. Unfortunately that is the compromise we will see. It will probably be an Obamacare sytle panel to determine ones mental stabilty. Worse yet, I believe HIPPA will be thrown out in regards to mental health, so if a doctor thinks you are mentally unstable, they can feel free to alert the authorities. |
| *HEISENBERG* (OP) I bleed orange and black User ID: 14560333 United States02/07/2013 07:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I've stuggled with this myself, but I am certain of one thing. This is not a question that will be answered best by the Federal government. Unfortunately that is the compromise we will see. It will probably be an Obamacare sytle panel to determine ones mental stabilty. Worse yet, I believe HIPPA will be thrown out in regards to mental health, so if a doctor thinks you are mentally unstable, they can feel free to alert the authorities. Quoting: spoof That is a possible but scary scenario. Formerly:Michael Bolton Negan, Rick Grimes, Heisenberg, Charlie Scene, “The Fourth Amendment is clear; we should be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, and all warrants must have probable cause. Today the government operates largely in secret, while seeking to know everything about our private lives – without probable cause and without a warrant. The government does not need to know more about what we are doing. We need to know more about what the government is doing.”-Ron Paul |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 31862440 United States02/07/2013 07:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In Connecticut, they are trying to mandate mental health screenings for public and home school children (i guess children in private schools would not be screened?): Thread: Connecticut - Proposed Bill 374 - Mental health evaluation of public and homeschool children This is horrific stuff. These labels are so arbitrary. You can look into the history of the DSM to learn about that! |
| *HEISENBERG* (OP) I bleed orange and black User ID: 14560333 United States02/07/2013 07:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In Connecticut, they are trying to mandate mental health screenings for public and home school children (i guess children in private schools would not be screened?): Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31862440 Thread: Connecticut - Proposed Bill 374 - Mental health evaluation of public and homeschool children This is horrific stuff. These labels are so arbitrary. You can look into the history of the DSM to learn about that! We are a nation of knee jerk reactions and emotional, not logical, decision makers. Formerly:Michael Bolton Negan, Rick Grimes, Heisenberg, Charlie Scene, “The Fourth Amendment is clear; we should be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, and all warrants must have probable cause. Today the government operates largely in secret, while seeking to know everything about our private lives – without probable cause and without a warrant. The government does not need to know more about what we are doing. We need to know more about what the government is doing.”-Ron Paul |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 33903393 United States02/07/2013 07:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Resister In God we trust User ID: 1461638 United States02/07/2013 07:36 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My opinion is that the suspected mental case should have to have demonstrated irrationally violent/deadly behavior before any action is taken to deny them their right to keep and bare arms. Otherwise you're getting into "pre-crime" territory. "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787 [link to line-in-the-sand.blogspot.com] |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 31862440 United States02/07/2013 07:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My opinion is that the suspected mental case should have to have demonstrated irrationally violent/deadly behavior before any action is taken to deny them their right to keep and bare arms. Otherwise you're getting into "pre-crime" territory. Quoting: Resister And unfortunately, I think this is exactly where things are heading...thus the "mental health" screenings of children. We're looking at Philip K. Dick stuff here... |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 33904447 United States02/07/2013 07:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In my opinion, I think we should stop trying to figure out solutions for every single perceived problem that crosses our path. Life is dangerous. What happened to that ancient knowledge? If we keep it up, we're going to become very lazy humans. As if it's not bad enough already. Can you imagine the pile of rules and new laws that are going to be plaguing us in ten or twenty years if we keep this up? ugh |
| *HEISENBERG* (OP) I bleed orange and black User ID: 14560333 United States02/07/2013 07:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My opinion is that the suspected mental case should have to have demonstrated irrationally violent/deadly behavior before any action is taken to deny them their right to keep and bare arms. Otherwise you're getting into "pre-crime" territory. Quoting: Resister Exactly, it's such a complex subject. How to approach it without taking rights away, or getting into pre crime territory. Formerly:Michael Bolton Negan, Rick Grimes, Heisenberg, Charlie Scene, “The Fourth Amendment is clear; we should be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, and all warrants must have probable cause. Today the government operates largely in secret, while seeking to know everything about our private lives – without probable cause and without a warrant. The government does not need to know more about what we are doing. We need to know more about what the government is doing.”-Ron Paul |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 33904447 United States02/07/2013 07:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| CeeLite User ID: 33205178 United States02/07/2013 07:47 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| *HEISENBERG* (OP) I bleed orange and black User ID: 14560333 United States02/07/2013 07:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | LOL, I will pin it with my karma tomorrow. Formerly:Michael Bolton Negan, Rick Grimes, Heisenberg, Charlie Scene, “The Fourth Amendment is clear; we should be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, and all warrants must have probable cause. Today the government operates largely in secret, while seeking to know everything about our private lives – without probable cause and without a warrant. The government does not need to know more about what we are doing. We need to know more about what the government is doing.”-Ron Paul |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 31862440 United States02/07/2013 08:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Sometimes things happen that you can't really do anything about. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33904447 We need to go back to knowing that. So True. We also have to acknowledge that much harm and damage is done in attempts at 'control'. There are certainly things we can and should improve...but we have to do so with wisdom, with an understanding of balance, ethics, respect...the bigger picture. |
| Resister In God we trust User ID: 1461638 United States02/07/2013 08:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My opinion is that the suspected mental case should have to have demonstrated irrationally violent/deadly behavior before any action is taken to deny them their right to keep and bare arms. Otherwise you're getting into "pre-crime" territory. Quoting: Resister Exactly, it's such a complex subject. How to approach it without taking rights away, or getting into pre crime territory. Well, if you apply the same principle of innocent before proven guilty it doesn't have to be that complicated. This is however, why principles aren't always easy to have. In America, we chose a long time ago to risk that some bad guys would go free rather than wrongly punishing one innocent one. I'm not saying that nut cases are neccesarily bad guys. They can't help it, but to live in a truely free society, you have to accept that bad things are going to happen sometimes. You have to be free enough to commit the crime before you are arrested for it. That's why cops mostly just respond to crime that has already happened. We have made it complicated with phycho meds. It would be prudent and responsible to be very careful about psycho meds and the people who are on them. The meds are just as bad or worse than the alleged mental disorders they are supposed to treat. We over prescribe meds that affect different people differently and to treat people who should simply be taught how to deal with their own situations. Those meds would calm one person and excite another. All that needs to change for the switch to flip could simply be diet or stress and boom, you've got a drugged out killer. Last Edited by Resister on 02/07/2013 09:01 PM "God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787 [link to line-in-the-sand.blogspot.com] |
Lady Jane Smith Forum Moderator User ID: 10545675 02/07/2013 08:29 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation |  Life is karma and karma always reflects both past and present circumstance. Our time here is short, so choose carefully and behave well, for all of your tomorrows are presently being decided. "Don't die on a small cross..." Saddletramp's Mom "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool." -- William Shakespeare, born April 23, 1564. |
| Lady Jane Smith Forum Moderator User ID: 20067482  Romania02/07/2013 08:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I will pin you for discussion. Life is karma and karma always reflects both past and present circumstance. Our time here is short, so choose carefully and behave well, for all of your tomorrows are presently being decided. "Don't die on a small cross..." Saddletramp's Mom "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool." -- William Shakespeare, born April 23, 1564. |
| TheMacaroni User ID: 24516758 02/07/2013 08:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| CeeLite User ID: 33205178 United States02/07/2013 08:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 31708378 United States02/07/2013 08:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms. Quoting: *HEISENBERG* I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions. I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable. Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse. Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights? What do you all think? My solution: Tard Islands. The US has a lot of Islands and a lot of tards. Sprinkle the Tards out in the florida keys and blow up the bridges connecting to mainland. |
| Professor Xavier User ID: 33895868 United States02/07/2013 08:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms. Quoting: *HEISENBERG* I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions. I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable. Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse. Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights? What do you all think? If everyone was armed, and the equivalent of a roving "Castle doctrine" was universal, the aggressive in society would be exterminated within a week via attrition, and there would be no centralized repository of unarmed victims waiting to be massacred. Last Edited by Professor Xavier on 02/07/2013 08:45 PM |
| acegotflows User ID: 28872932 United States02/07/2013 08:36 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms. Quoting: *HEISENBERG* I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions. I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable. Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse. Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights? What do you all think? it is myth. Energy is simply rebelling to being manipulated by synthetic frequencies... Mind and body split and neither one listens to the other. Disinfo, fear porn and synthetics are what keeps this going. It is all about selling a product because they know what is in store for man and refuse to let go... IT will happen regardless. But you have to think better thoughts about this concept. Everybody is living in a delusion of some sort... Yours is no better... Man's tools have become his masters because he stopped putting in the work and is reaping what he has sown... "a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth" |
| zenobiaphobia Dancing to the beat of a skinless drum User ID: 33907250 United States02/07/2013 08:36 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Until we can determine what is wrong with some people,and how to treat them effectively, please keep them off the street: A schizophrenic was today convicted of knifing a grandmother to death in the street - six years after killing her own mother in a stabbing frenzy.Read more: [link to www.dailymail.co.uk] Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook A man who killed his first daughter in 1995 and spent 11 years in jail was sentenced Thursday for killing a second daughter [link to www.wect.com] I'd like to see more research into why these people murder again and again. Last Edited by zenobiaphobia on 02/07/2013 08:37 PM Books relevant to our current situation will appear here at random: [link to www.gutenberg.org] |
| Professor Xavier User ID: 33895868 United States02/07/2013 08:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
