HOW TO DEAL WITH THE MENTALLY ILL IN A FREE SOCIETY?

Yes. Psychotherapy and psychiatry while some of it is good and well, is not REALLY spiritual healing, really...it's essentially atheistic and that is why it cannot ever really reintegrate a person's soul. It ignores the reality of the soul. I'd say maybe Jungian therapy would be an exception, but then you are going full circle back to something like shamanism.

Hoping others suggest pin as well..

So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?

You don't think schools and children have had the same basic social structures since forever?

i havent completely formulated an opinion on this subject yet but it is a question that needs to be answered.

if we were still living the hunter/gatherer lifestyle nature would take it's course with the mentally ill.....but no one wants to hear that.

So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?

Not at all. Haven't you ever read john taylor gatto's An Underground History of American Education? Have you ever thought about how schools were in our country in the days of the one room school house? Or when most people were homeschooled? You need to look at this book. The very purpose of school is to basically drive people a bit insane, for the purpose of consumerism and work force training.

Here is the problem - WHO makes the call whether a person is mentally ill? Remember the psychs will soon all work under Obamacare. There is a MAJOR conflict of interest.

Fact is, if a person is hell-bent on harm, they will find a way to harm others gun or no-gun. Taking away guns from the rest of us, or giving the government psychiatrists the ability to say yes/no creates more problems than it solves.

I posted an article yesterday about a bill to scan every public school/homeschool child in CT for mental illness. This is what will happen, nationwide.

You cannot create a perfect society.
You cannot eliminate risk.

Everytime we try to do this, we lose more freedoms.

So lately there has been a lot of talk because of the recent shootings about the mentally ill and the mentally ill having access to firearms.

I have heard many pundits, many glpers, many everyday people talking about this, yet no one really has any solutions.

I make this thread under the assumption we all or at least most of us wish to live in a free society. With that said, how in a free society do we prevent or lower the chances of a mentally ill person obtaining a firearm? We can't go around involuntarily committing people we "suspect" may be mentally unstable.

Plus it starts to get shaky when we try and define mentally unstable and who should define this? Plus the meds we give the mentally ill generally have negative psychological effects. Potentially making a bad situation worse.

Is there a way to tackle this problem without violating peoples civil rights? Without doping everyone we suspect to be mentally ill into a drug induced coma? Also without restricting gun rights?

What do you all think?

Not at all. Haven't you ever read john taylor gatto's An Underground History of American Education? Have you ever thought about how schools were in our country in the days of the one room school house? Or when most people were homeschooled? You need to look at this book. The very purpose of school is to basically drive people a bit insane, for the purpose of consumerism and work force training.

Here you go, it is free to read off his website:

[link to www.johntaylorgatto.com]

Our schools are made to fracture our psyche. It's only getting worst, I believe, at the behest of pharmaceutical interest groups. I think children today are basically going through a process of gaslighting. Schools demand they start academic work much too early, teaching to the test, a disconnect from nature, lack of recess, lack of art, music or anything healing, silly rules and punishments due to zero tolerance policies, teachers who are not adequately trained to deal with their classrooms so they pressure parents to put children on drugs. Any child who is not perfectly conforming is being driven crazy, and even labelled as such or in need of evaluation. Then, they are drugged...
And drugging is another major factor in why so many are mentally ill. These drugs make a child who was going through a difficult, yet normal, phase into a permanent customer.

Most of the shootings are tied to pharmaceuticals.

Help the mentally ill who desire, to become independent from (versus dependent) on their families, who are often a deep part of the problem. They need to be able to get away from a family who might be contributing to their madness. I don't know, secluded cabins with people to help if they want and a little job to do to cover costs or something...

Peter Breggin is a critic of psychiatric drugs:

[link to www.breggin.com]

I absolutely agree.

Which is why I made this thread, wondering if anyone out there has any solutions I havn't heard or thought of yet.

Because like I said, every solution I hear infringes on our rights.

The answer may lie in empowering families. Right now it is hard to get the help a mentally ill family member needs. The best and least affordable option is a 1 on 1 caregiver.

A more affordable option could be therapeutic group homes. When and how a person is placed in one is up to the family not the gov't (and requires so many family members to agree to commit). Not perfect, but heck of a lot better than jail or the streets which is where most of these folks end up.

Before people have a fit - remember nursing homes are the same thing. People are typically there because they have a condition too overwhelming for the families to handle.

That's an immediate fix, but long term we need to have a serious discussion of societal breakdown, bad medications and more.

Bill Hicks had the solution when he said that marijuana should not only be legal, but should also be mandatory.

But wouldn't they need supervision at this "camp"?

Same as being under the care of their families.

Character development. We should help our children and friends with character development. I used to have some bad character and thinking habits -- self pity, lack of confidence, a negative world view, perfectionism. Simply changing those things, changes so much. Focusing on improving character, would help all of us and probably prevent or heal some of the more mild mental illness. You can't force this on people, but self help could be available for free.

Perhaps...but I'm speaking of a voluntary situation with quite a bit of freedom. Not a controlling mind game with experts and authoritarianism.

But wouldn't they need supervision at this "camp"?

Same as being under the care of their families.

I'm sorry...I need to clarify. I personally believe that there are many mentally ill people who are basically coming from very dysfunctional families who pretty much gaslight them, or drive them crazy....or, when they are crazy, keep them crazy. I know that is an unpopular theory, but I've seen this dynamic personally. A family might not even mean to harm a person, but people labelled "mentally ill" are often extremely sensitive, and their family could be causing problems. They need to be free of that dynamic to heal.

Pharma companies don't want to "go there", because their bread and butter is that all illness is based in the brain, for instance...the set up organizations to support families that pretty much reassure families it's all in the "mentally ill" person's head.

I think you are spot on with the short term fix.

The power should all be with the family. Government should stay out of it. It can be very hard for a family to get the help they require, how can we make that easier?

Maybe instead of federal funded programs, we could put that money at the local level?

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

This is Dr. John Breeding, Ph.D

I'm putting up one of his videos, but they are all really great. He has some about children, that you can look up on Youtube.