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Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 01:50 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
I always thought Germany was a safe bet to keep $$, is Iceland the only safe haven in the region now?
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 01:53 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
close friend works at swiss bank high up. had meetings about europe economy. very grim insider prognosis for this year. so yes. you're right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33768594


Thanks for the warning, but we all know in our guts that it is coming soon, n God help us all.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 02:38 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
BSbsflag
this shit has been said time, after time, after time, after fucking time; i'm fed up of hearing about something that ain't going to happen ever! simple get on with your boring little life you slave.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33460327


dude do you ever speak with people working with real economy?

I mean production and retail?

It's so bad that even those business who till now where not tankig thanks to easy credit and buying competors on shrinking market are about to implode

stock markets it's a game where the biggest are eating all the small ones

once final supercorporations operation for each continent will be formed then there will be not longer need of such game
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32020839



it don't matter dude, because the world is run by fucking twats who wear suits and drive horrible bmw's and audis, fucking corporate robots who are not even human beings they are robots and they need to have their wires drenched in water. i'm fed up with these fucking morons telling me what to do and it happens to be the people i've just mentioned they were suits - the most boring and unfriendly robots i've ever met.
recollector

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02/08/2013 02:51 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
BSbsflag
this shit has been said time, after time, after time, after fucking time; i'm fed up of hearing about something that ain't going to happen ever! simple get on with your boring little life you slave.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33460327


dude do you ever speak with people working with real economy?

I mean production and retail?

It's so bad that even those business who till now where not tankig thanks to easy credit and buying competors on shrinking market are about to implode

stock markets it's a game where the biggest are eating all the small ones

once final supercorporations operation for each continent will be formed then there will be not longer need of such game
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32020839



it don't matter dude, because the world is run by fucking twats who wear suits and drive horrible bmw's and audis, fucking corporate robots who are not even human beings they are robots and they need to have their wires drenched in water. i'm fed up with these fucking morons telling me what to do and it happens to be the people i've just mentioned they were suits - the most boring and unfriendly robots i've ever met.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33460327


Worry not, those suits robots will be the first wave of dead people after the most devastating crash, and the last one, to the economy.

There won't be any economy after this...and no money also.
recollector
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 02:52 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Worry not, those suits robots will be the first wave of dead people after the most devastating crash, and the last one, to the economy.

There won't be any economy after this...and no money also.
 Quoting: recollector


Sorry to break your bubble, but there is no money now, just credit.

.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 02:52 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
conflicting information;

my good friend has a contact; a financial planner in the usa

they say the us stock market is doing the best it has ever done since about 2008

of coarse this is usa

where many look at the usa as the focal point of the world

but this planner seems to think usa is doing

well right now


does someone want to interpret this

is this financial planner looking at things with blinders on
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32538141


All that means is that the Banks are creating more debt.

Duh.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 03:37 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Japan will go first then Europe then USA grand finale.
:dom767:
 Quoting: gebahie


Yes. Yes.
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
02/08/2013 04:00 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Japan will go first then Europe then USA grand finale.
:dom767:
 Quoting: gebahie


Europe will never ever go down! We are too big to fail. The US on the other hand.... well, no one really gives a shit.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 04:10 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Early March something big will happen. France is fucked anyway, I know that.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 04:11 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
crash or no, big earthquakes are due to Mars alignment, Definitaly, Period :



s___e___i___s___m___o___.__i___n__f___o
Anonymous Coward
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Norway
02/08/2013 04:35 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
I always thought Germany was a safe bet to keep $$, is Iceland the only safe haven in the region now?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5648569


Norway, Switzerland and Luxembourg are all good and still going strong.

I read an article in Norwegian financial news about more foreigners putting money in Norwegian banks not so long ago.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 04:51 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
This is pretty serious folks. The fat lady is drawing in a deep breath.

I hope you have your beans an bullets already...use to be you could get them both at Walmart, now you can get only one and perhaps later (or soon) none.
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 05:01 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Yea, we been hearing this for over 2 years now.
Marxist

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02/08/2013 05:29 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Very interesting article on Zerohedge...

Put's a bit too much blame on "Capitalism", but I think it's really the "Monetary System" as whole that this article concerns, because the exact same weakness' of Capitalism are present and even more pronounced in "Communism/Socialism", so I think you have to look at the Monetary Structures of our world as a whole here...

Anyway, a highly recommended read...

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
 Quoting: Saddletramp


OK. We will be here in 10 years time (even 50 but thats too far ahead to monitor, globalisation will have continued apace, wealth consolidation will deepen as modernity reaches the far corners of this globe and Islam cracks, banks will have embedded themselves in our economy and workers will stand still wage wise, but have perfected the art of consumerism.

These are my predictions. I am absolutely certain that we are in an adjustment in capitalism which has many bubbles yet to blow.

Keep this little prediction somewhere and if we are still on this forum in 7 years time, I will remind you of my skill at understanding capitalism better than you do. I am that certain. In fact I foresee the collpase of parochialsm all over the world as new employment cultures emerge with people moving countries for jobs.

Now lets sit back and see who is correct. You with your mercantilist doom and gloom or me with a scientific understanding as to how capital works.

Last Edited by Marxist on 02/08/2013 05:32 PM
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BioReaper
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02/08/2013 05:32 PM

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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Very interesting article on Zerohedge...

Put's a bit too much blame on "Capitalism", but I think it's really the "Monetary System" as whole that this article concerns, because the exact same weakness' of Capitalism are present and even more pronounced in "Communism/Socialism", so I think you have to look at the Monetary Structures of our world as a whole here...

Anyway, a highly recommended read...

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
 Quoting: Saddletramp


OK. We will be here in 10 years time (even 50 but thats too far ahead to monitor, globalisation will have continued apace, wealth consolidation will deepen as modernity reaches the far corners of this globe and Islam cracks, banks will have embedded themselves in our economy and workers will stand still wage wise, but have perfected the art of consumerism.

These are my predictions. I am absolutely certain that we are in an adjustment in capitalism which has many bubbles yet to blow.

Keep this little prediction somewhere and if we are still on this forum in 7 years time, I will remind you of my skill at understanding capitalism better than you do. I am that certain. In fact I foresee the collpase of parochialsm all over the work as new employment cultures emerge wiyh people moving countries for jobs.

Now lets sit back and see who is correct. You with your mercantilist doom and gloom or me with a scientific understanding as to how capital works.
 Quoting: Marxist


This. A+ Analysis.
I've created a lead based cure for syphilis!
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 05:38 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
The stock market is a rigged casino.
Where you will find the state of the economy is with the people. There will be no crash. Just a slow death.

Why would the gamblers of a rigged game not allow their addiction to go on as long as possible?
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 05:45 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Are we talking as bad or worse than 2008?
Imo Europe is breaking apart that is for sure and I welcome it but wouldn't want what happened in 2008 again to happen. I think most Europeans, particularly the British hate the EU, me included.
Anonymous Coward
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New Zealand
02/08/2013 05:54 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Very interesting article on Zerohedge...

Put's a bit too much blame on "Capitalism", but I think it's really the "Monetary System" as whole that this article concerns, because the exact same weakness' of Capitalism are present and even more pronounced in "Communism/Socialism", so I think you have to look at the Monetary Structures of our world as a whole here...

Anyway, a highly recommended read...

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
 Quoting: Saddletramp


OK. We will be here in 10 years time (even 50 but thats too far ahead to monitor, globalisation will have continued apace, wealth consolidation will deepen as modernity reaches the far corners of this globe and Islam cracks, banks will have embedded themselves in our economy and workers will stand still wage wise, but have perfected the art of consumerism.

These are my predictions. I am absolutely certain that we are in an adjustment in capitalism which has many bubbles yet to blow.

Keep this little prediction somewhere and if we are still on this forum in 7 years time, I will remind you of my skill at understanding capitalism better than you do. I am that certain. In fact I foresee the collpase of parochialsm all over the world as new employment cultures emerge with people moving countries for jobs.

Now lets sit back and see who is correct. You with your mercantilist doom and gloom or me with a scientific understanding as to how capital works.
 Quoting: Marxist


What do you mean by
"I am absolutely certain that we are in an adjustment in capitalism which has many bubbles yet to blow."?
Otherwise very astute analysis!
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/08/2013 06:20 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
conflicting information;

my good friend has a contact; a financial planner in the usa

they say the us stock market is doing the best it has ever done since about 2008

of coarse this is usa

where many look at the usa as the focal point of the world

but this planner seems to think usa is doing

well right now


does someone want to interpret this

is this financial planner looking at things with blinders on
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32538141


Yes, the US stock market is doing well now. What does that have to do with the economy? The stock market is the Las Vegas of the financial world, just legalized gambling. Look at the people who get rich off of "shorting" something. It has nothing to do with the realities in the economy. Everyone knows the US is going to crash, Obama is out there lying his ass off, just to keep the sheeple stupefied a little longer. The debt, the continued spending, borrowing, printing money, etc., is a house of cards that cannot be maintained.

Question: why do they count gov't spending as a contributor to GNP? Gov't is not a wealth generator. In private business, corporate expenses from the centralized organization are considered EXPENSES, to be deducted from the final tally on performance. And when you consider they are printing the money, not using real income, to do all this spending...I wonder what the true GNP is? MUCH less than they say.

Anyone who still has money in the markets, especially 401K's, should start seriously considering cashing out. When the crash goes, all of this is going to disappear. My question at this point is when we should pull money out of bank accounts? Everything I've read indicates status quo for another year or two and then shtf. Are things that bad that we have months instead of a year or two?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31907650

i keep little in my bank account at any one time

just enough so i don't get overdrafts

what i would like someone to tell us is when do we take
money out of our 401k s

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32538141


RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!
davvi

User ID: 3677166
United States
02/08/2013 06:20 PM

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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
The simple fact of the matter is that we have more Jewish geniuses running our banks in the United States than they have in all of Europe. American banks are making money while the European banks still lose most of the time of derivative bets. They are just dumbasses!
 Quoting: Hymen Goldstein 16674316


this is a global economy and if they take a hit so will we be regardless of who is running our banks, hymen.

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Saddletramp
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02/08/2013 06:25 PM

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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Very interesting article on Zerohedge...

Put's a bit too much blame on "Capitalism", but I think it's really the "Monetary System" as whole that this article concerns, because the exact same weakness' of Capitalism are present and even more pronounced in "Communism/Socialism", so I think you have to look at the Monetary Structures of our world as a whole here...

Anyway, a highly recommended read...

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
 Quoting: Saddletramp


OK. We will be here in 10 years time (even 50 but thats too far ahead to monitor, globalisation will have continued apace, wealth consolidation will deepen as modernity reaches the far corners of this globe and Islam cracks, banks will have embedded themselves in our economy and workers will stand still wage wise, but have perfected the art of consumerism.

These are my predictions. I am absolutely certain that we are in an adjustment in capitalism which has many bubbles yet to blow.

Keep this little prediction somewhere and if we are still on this forum in 7 years time, I will remind you of my skill at understanding capitalism better than you do. I am that certain. In fact I foresee the collpase of parochialsm all over the world as new employment cultures emerge with people moving countries for jobs.

Now lets sit back and see who is correct. You with your mercantilist doom and gloom or me with a scientific understanding as to how capital works.
 Quoting: Marxist


The adjustment will be in the monetary system as a whole. After the Great Depression they began moving us to fiat monetary system, this went into high gear after WWII. The next so called adjustment will be to compensate for the peaking, and eventual over over to the downside of; Energy, Food Production, Economic/Debt Cycle, and even the Population Cycle. With downturns in so many indicator cycles the next "adjustment", as you like to put it, is a severe draw down in currencies and a return of commodity backing to those currencies...

Which in my opinion is more of a reset, or rollover of the cycle, than an adjustment, but I agree the masses will view it as "saving the system"...

Many countries appear to be preparing for this eventuality, and basket backing of currencies is the next logical step. It is the only way to both relieve the overwhelming sovereign debt burden, and not endure a total collapse of the system, though many will believe it has collapsed...

But of course to do this countries will have to turn over control of vast amounts of their resources to the central banks (imagine that), which as usual the banks will compensate with paper, but it will give the system the appearance of stability, and the central bankers total control...

It's just logical...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 02/08/2013 07:54 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 06:26 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
The only way to solve this is to import more muslims. LOL
Garman906

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02/08/2013 06:39 PM

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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
conflicting information;

my good friend has a contact; a financial planner in the usa

they say the us stock market is doing the best it has ever done since about 2008

of coarse this is usa

where many look at the usa as the focal point of the world

but this planner seems to think usa is doing

well right now


does someone want to interpret this

is this financial planner looking at things with blinders on
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32538141


Yes, the US stock market is doing well now. What does that have to do with the economy? The stock market is the Las Vegas of the financial world, just legalized gambling. Look at the people who get rich off of "shorting" something. It has nothing to do with the realities in the economy. Everyone knows the US is going to crash, Obama is out there lying his ass off, just to keep the sheeple stupefied a little longer. The debt, the continued spending, borrowing, printing money, etc., is a house of cards that cannot be maintained.

Question: why do they count gov't spending as a contributor to GNP? Gov't is not a wealth generator. In private business, corporate expenses from the centralized organization are considered EXPENSES, to be deducted from the final tally on performance. And when you consider they are printing the money, not using real income, to do all this spending...I wonder what the true GNP is? MUCH less than they say.

Anyone who still has money in the markets, especially 401K's, should start seriously considering cashing out. When the crash goes, all of this is going to disappear. My question at this point is when we should pull money out of bank accounts? Everything I've read indicates status quo for another year or two and then shtf. Are things that bad that we have months instead of a year or two?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31907650

i keep little in my bank account at any one time

just enough so i don't get overdrafts

what i would like someone to tell us is when do we take
money out of our 401k s
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32538141


Yesterday
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Marxist

User ID: 5770944
New Zealand
02/08/2013 09:16 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Very interesting article on Zerohedge...

Put's a bit too much blame on "Capitalism", but I think it's really the "Monetary System" as whole that this article concerns, because the exact same weakness' of Capitalism are present and even more pronounced in "Communism/Socialism", so I think you have to look at the Monetary Structures of our world as a whole here...

Anyway, a highly recommended read...

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
 Quoting: Saddletramp


OK. We will be here in 10 years time (even 50 but thats too far ahead to monitor, globalisation will have continued apace, wealth consolidation will deepen as modernity reaches the far corners of this globe and Islam cracks, banks will have embedded themselves in our economy and workers will stand still wage wise, but have perfected the art of consumerism.

These are my predictions. I am absolutely certain that we are in an adjustment in capitalism which has many bubbles yet to blow.

Keep this little prediction somewhere and if we are still on this forum in 7 years time, I will remind you of my skill at understanding capitalism better than you do. I am that certain. In fact I foresee the collpase of parochialsm all over the world as new employment cultures emerge with people moving countries for jobs.

Now lets sit back and see who is correct. You with your mercantilist doom and gloom or me with a scientific understanding as to how capital works.
 Quoting: Marxist


The adjustment will be in the monetary system as a whole. After the Great Depression they began moving us to fiat monetary system, this went into high gear after WWII. The next so called adjustment will be to compensate for the peaking, and eventual over over to the downside of; Energy, Food Production, Economic/Debt Cycle, and even the Population Cycle. With downturns in so many indicator cycles the next "adjustment", as you like to put it, is a severe draw down in currencies and a return of commodity backing to those currencies...

Which in my opinion is more of a reset, or rollover of the cycle, than an adjustment, but I agree the masses will view it as "saving the system"...

Many countries appear to be preparing for this eventuality, and basket backing of currencies is the next logical step. It is the only way to both relieve the overwhelming sovereign debt burden, and not endure a total collapse of the system, though many will believe it has collapsed...

But of course to do this countries will have to turn over control of vast amounts of their resources to the central banks (imagine that), which as usual the banks will compensate with paper, but it will give the system the appearance of stability, and the central bankers total control...

It's just logical...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


You can't back unlmited accumulation with a finite store. Any country that tries will soon find that it is out of sync with the rest of gloablising capitalism and will soon fall back in line. Listen, all this gold and other forms of value store belong to an age when your average housewife changed her washing machine (if she had one) nill time in her lifetime.

Now especially with China churning out value at a pace that makes ones eyes water, the economy's value store lies in its labour and consumers (plis energy..oil...equal to 12 workers).

This crisis harkens back to a regional capitalism that was inefficient due to the Cold War. Western labour was paid premium rates and advanced premium credit in order to bribe them. This lagging inefficiency took on mammoth proportions as the recently absorbed Eastern workers were equally bribed in record time resulting in a massive disconnect between values and the surplus this region was extracting.

The rest of the planet is simulatanerously coming on stream, Western labour will take a massive hit in terms of the inducements they grew used to although, they along with the rest of the global working force are being primed for the next bubble.

If anything, we are on the brink of another massive wealth bubble. There are more of these to come as well as capitalism continually reinvents itself. However, the parochial markets you long for are gone. Over. Until dialectic forces rise to the fore and that is in a time when world culture will be a mystery to you.

Banks, banks, banks...are just the mechanism thorugh whioh value flows and is distributed and amplified. There is no great magic about it. Destroy every bank tomorrow, and a whole infrastructufre of banks would rise to replace them.

I'll tell you now. There is no way they can revive limited currnecy backing. No way. Were that to happen, this whole edifice would collapse in a flash and vast amounts of wealth would vanish overnight.
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Marxist

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02/08/2013 09:18 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
The only way to solve this is to import more muslims. LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33427340


Muslims are an endangered species. The magic of globalising capital, bro.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Anonymous Coward
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02/08/2013 09:49 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Is the financial system of Europe on the verge of a meltdown? I have always maintained that the next wave of the economic crisis would begin in Europe, and right now the situation in Europe is unraveling at a frightening pace. On Monday, European stocks had their worst day in over six months, and over the past four days we have seen the EUR/USD decline by the most that it has in nearly seven months. Meanwhile, scandals are erupting all over the continent. A political scandal in Spain, a derivatives scandal in Italy andbanking scandals all over the eurozone are seriously shaking confidence in the system. If things move much farther in a negative direction, we could be facing a full-blown financial crisis in Europe very rapidly. So watch the financial markets in Europe very carefully. Yes, most Americans tend to ignore Europe because they are convinced that the U.S. is “the center of the universe”, but the truth is that Europe actually has a bigger population than we do, they have a bigger economy then we do, and they have a much larger banking system than we do. The global financial system is more integrated today than it ever has been before, and if there is a major stock market crash in Europe it is going to deeply affect the United States and the rest of the globe as well. So pay close attention to what is going on in Europe, because events over there could spark a chain reaction that would have very serious implications for every man, woman and child on the planet....


Read more at [link to investmentwatchblog.com]

5a
 Quoting: waht



we have 6 months i would say when we cant paper over any thing any more
Saddletramp
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02/08/2013 10:39 PM

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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
Very interesting article on Zerohedge...

Put's a bit too much blame on "Capitalism", but I think it's really the "Monetary System" as whole that this article concerns, because the exact same weakness' of Capitalism are present and even more pronounced in "Communism/Socialism", so I think you have to look at the Monetary Structures of our world as a whole here...

Anyway, a highly recommended read...

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
 Quoting: Saddletramp


OK. We will be here in 10 years time (even 50 but thats too far ahead to monitor, globalisation will have continued apace, wealth consolidation will deepen as modernity reaches the far corners of this globe and Islam cracks, banks will have embedded themselves in our economy and workers will stand still wage wise, but have perfected the art of consumerism.

These are my predictions. I am absolutely certain that we are in an adjustment in capitalism which has many bubbles yet to blow.

Keep this little prediction somewhere and if we are still on this forum in 7 years time, I will remind you of my skill at understanding capitalism better than you do. I am that certain. In fact I foresee the collpase of parochialsm all over the world as new employment cultures emerge with people moving countries for jobs.

Now lets sit back and see who is correct. You with your mercantilist doom and gloom or me with a scientific understanding as to how capital works.
 Quoting: Marxist


The adjustment will be in the monetary system as a whole. After the Great Depression they began moving us to fiat monetary system, this went into high gear after WWII. The next so called adjustment will be to compensate for the peaking, and eventual over over to the downside of; Energy, Food Production, Economic/Debt Cycle, and even the Population Cycle. With downturns in so many indicator cycles the next "adjustment", as you like to put it, is a severe draw down in currencies and a return of commodity backing to those currencies...

Which in my opinion is more of a reset, or rollover of the cycle, than an adjustment, but I agree the masses will view it as "saving the system"...

Many countries appear to be preparing for this eventuality, and basket backing of currencies is the next logical step. It is the only way to both relieve the overwhelming sovereign debt burden, and not endure a total collapse of the system, though many will believe it has collapsed...

But of course to do this countries will have to turn over control of vast amounts of their resources to the central banks (imagine that), which as usual the banks will compensate with paper, but it will give the system the appearance of stability, and the central bankers total control...

It's just logical...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


You can't back unlmited accumulation with a finite store. Any country that tries will soon find that it is out of sync with the rest of gloablising capitalism and will soon fall back in line. Listen, all this gold and other forms of value store belong to an age when your average housewife changed her washing machine (if she had one) nill time in her lifetime.

Now especially with China churning out value at a pace that makes ones eyes water, the economy's value store lies in its labour and consumers (plis energy..oil...equal to 12 workers).

This crisis harkens back to a regional capitalism that was inefficient due to the Cold War. Western labour was paid premium rates and advanced premium credit in order to bribe them. This lagging inefficiency took on mammoth proportions as the recently absorbed Eastern workers were equally bribed in record time resulting in a massive disconnect between values and the surplus this region was extracting.

The rest of the planet is simulatanerously coming on stream, Western labour will take a massive hit in terms of the inducements they grew used to although, they along with the rest of the global working force are being primed for the next bubble.

If anything, we are on the brink of another massive wealth bubble. There are more of these to come as well as capitalism continually reinvents itself. However, the parochial markets you long for are gone. Over. Until dialectic forces rise to the fore and that is in a time when world culture will be a mystery to you.

Banks, banks, banks...are just the mechanism thorugh whioh value flows and is distributed and amplified. There is no great magic about it. Destroy every bank tomorrow, and a whole infrastructufre of banks would rise to replace them.

I'll tell you now. There is no way they can revive limited currnecy backing. No way. Were that to happen, this whole edifice would collapse in a flash and vast amounts of wealth would vanish overnight.
 Quoting: Marxist


In case you haven't noticed, they are already planning for the declining phase of a lot of these cycles, hence the race for global resources. You are absolutely right when you say they needed the unlimited liquidity only a totally fiat currency could give them for the explosive growth we've seen since WWII, but you don't need that growth/liquidity when population begins to decline because food production is getting worse every year (as it has already declined each year for the last three years, and is projected to decline yet again this year).

In fact once the population begins to decline (an ever shrinking consumer base) if you haven't already started the process of removing that excess liquidity from the system you would already be too late, you would immediately, and in an extremely destructive emergency fashion, have to begin pulling massive amounts of liquidity out of the system or risk a total collapse that even they might not be able to pull themselves out of.

Everything in this world is a cycle, within a larger cycle, within a still larger cycle, until finally the cycle becomes so huge we cannot fathom an end to it so we call it infinite...

The economy, energy production, food production, population, none of these are immune from the cyclical nature of our universe.

So you see pretty soon the race for the remaining resources of the world is going to move to Central Banks, and the Central Banks are going to want those resources that all of these countries have been accumulating world wide to pay them back for all that meaningless paper they printed for them...

It will be contrived, it will be planned, and it will be manipulated to favor only the uber-elite, but it absolutely will happen...

They damn sure don't want us going back to a barter system of value for value, and the only way to keep a massively declining consumer base using your paper currency that you print up for them is to apply some perceived value to that paper...And it won't hurt the Central Banks feelings to own all of the resources of the world either (in the name of saving the system of course).

When the economic roll-over to a basket backed currency happens (and it will happen), the population crash will not be far behind...

Marx, you're problem is you are operating in the old paradigm of the post WWII world, when it was grow, grow, grow, inflate, inflate, inflate (back when all of the indicator cycles were in their ascendency phase)...you're looking at capital and monetary systems, but you're not looking at the big picture, you're not looking at indicator cycles in a declining phase (which is where they will all be ten years from now). Our population is nearing it's peak because food production already has peaked and is in decline, you will have to adjust to an entirely new paradigm, or you will not make it in this Brave New World they have planned for us...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 02/08/2013 11:20 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Marxist

User ID: 5770944
New Zealand
02/08/2013 11:34 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
...


OK. We will be here in 10 years time (even 50 but thats too far ahead to monitor, globalisation will have continued apace, wealth consolidation will deepen as modernity reaches the far corners of this globe and Islam cracks, banks will have embedded themselves in our economy and workers will stand still wage wise, but have perfected the art of consumerism.

These are my predictions. I am absolutely certain that we are in an adjustment in capitalism which has many bubbles yet to blow.

Keep this little prediction somewhere and if we are still on this forum in 7 years time, I will remind you of my skill at understanding capitalism better than you do. I am that certain. In fact I foresee the collpase of parochialsm all over the world as new employment cultures emerge with people moving countries for jobs.

Now lets sit back and see who is correct. You with your mercantilist doom and gloom or me with a scientific understanding as to how capital works.
 Quoting: Marxist


The adjustment will be in the monetary system as a whole. After the Great Depression they began moving us to fiat monetary system, this went into high gear after WWII. The next so called adjustment will be to compensate for the peaking, and eventual over over to the downside of; Energy, Food Production, Economic/Debt Cycle, and even the Population Cycle. With downturns in so many indicator cycles the next "adjustment", as you like to put it, is a severe draw down in currencies and a return of commodity backing to those currencies...

Which in my opinion is more of a reset, or rollover of the cycle, than an adjustment, but I agree the masses will view it as "saving the system"...

Many countries appear to be preparing for this eventuality, and basket backing of currencies is the next logical step. It is the only way to both relieve the overwhelming sovereign debt burden, and not endure a total collapse of the system, though many will believe it has collapsed...

But of course to do this countries will have to turn over control of vast amounts of their resources to the central banks (imagine that), which as usual the banks will compensate with paper, but it will give the system the appearance of stability, and the central bankers total control...

It's just logical...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


You can't back unlmited accumulation with a finite store. Any country that tries will soon find that it is out of sync with the rest of gloablising capitalism and will soon fall back in line. Listen, all this gold and other forms of value store belong to an age when your average housewife changed her washing machine (if she had one) nill time in her lifetime.

Now especially with China churning out value at a pace that makes ones eyes water, the economy's value store lies in its labour and consumers (plis energy..oil...equal to 12 workers).

This crisis harkens back to a regional capitalism that was inefficient due to the Cold War. Western labour was paid premium rates and advanced premium credit in order to bribe them. This lagging inefficiency took on mammoth proportions as the recently absorbed Eastern workers were equally bribed in record time resulting in a massive disconnect between values and the surplus this region was extracting.

The rest of the planet is simulatanerously coming on stream, Western labour will take a massive hit in terms of the inducements they grew used to although, they along with the rest of the global working force are being primed for the next bubble.

If anything, we are on the brink of another massive wealth bubble. There are more of these to come as well as capitalism continually reinvents itself. However, the parochial markets you long for are gone. Over. Until dialectic forces rise to the fore and that is in a time when world culture will be a mystery to you.

Banks, banks, banks...are just the mechanism thorugh whioh value flows and is distributed and amplified. There is no great magic about it. Destroy every bank tomorrow, and a whole infrastructufre of banks would rise to replace them.

I'll tell you now. There is no way they can revive limited currnecy backing. No way. Were that to happen, this whole edifice would collapse in a flash and vast amounts of wealth would vanish overnight.
 Quoting: Marxist


In case you haven't noticed, they are already planning for the declining phase of a lot of these cycles, hence the race for global resources. You are absolutely right when you say they needed the unlimited liquidity only a totally fiat currency could give them for the explosive growth we've seen since WWII, but you don't need that growth/liquidity when population begins to decline because food production is getting worse every year (as it has already declined each year for the last three years, and is projected to decline yet again this year).

In fact once the population begins to decline (an ever shrinking consumer base) if you haven't already started the process of removing that excess liquidity from the system you would already be too late, you would immediately, and in an extremely destructive emergency fashion, have to begin pulling massive amounts of liquidity out of the system or risk a total collapse that even they might not be able to pull themselves out of.

Everything in this world is a cycle, within a larger cycle, within a still larger cycle, until finally the cycle becomes so huge we cannot fathom an end to it so we call it infinite...

The economy, energy production, food production, population, none of these are immune from the cyclical nature of our universe.

So you see pretty soon the race for the remaining resources of the world is going to move to Central Banks, and the Central Banks are going to want those resources that all of these countries have been accumulating world wide to pay them back for all that meaningless paper they printed for them...

It will be contrived, it will be planned, and it will be manipulated to favor only the uber-elite, but it absolutely will happen...

They damn sure don't want us going back to a barter system of value for value, and the only way to keep a massively declining consumer base using your paper currency that you print up for them is to apply some perceived value to that paper...And it won't hurt the Central Banks feelings to own all of the resources of the world either (in the name of saving the system of course).

When the economic roll-over to a basket backed currency happens (and it will happen), the population crash will not be far behind...

Marx, you're problem is you are operating in the old paradigm of the post WWII world, when it was grow, grow, grow, inflate, inflate, inflate...you're looking at capital and monetary systems, but you're not looking at the big picture. Our population is nearing it's peak because food production already has peaked and is in decline, you will have to adjust to an entirely new paradigm, or you will not make it in this Brave New World they have planned for us...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


A lot of this is conjecture, especially as regards limits to growth. The only real objective determinant is the social-economy...the markets and culture. On the market front, there is nothing I see to suggest that we are in a terminal phase. Interventionism is a function of capital during downturns as are calls for deregulation during bubbles.

In fact, the emerging chaos in the Arab Empire coupled with the increasing dissatisfaction with Islamist solutions suggests even more strongly, along with the emergence of a bourgeoisie class in places such as China and India, that globalisation is very much on track.

Growth addictionally is not a subjective function of capital...it is an objective characteristic. There can be no capital markets (post mercantilism, mercantilism being what markets prior to WWII were closer to) without growth. Growth in fact occurs naturally until limits are reached. Limits will be marked by decoupling. However, every disaster does not the collapse of capitalism herald.

Capitalism WILL usher in a global cultur prior to its collapse. It will be a world that none of us can really envisage but it will be one where our parochialism will be a distant memory.

This is not to say that I am singing the praises of capital. Simply pointing out the relentless forces that will drive globalisation irrespective of what the various players may say from time to time.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 740874
United States
02/09/2013 12:07 AM

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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
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The adjustment will be in the monetary system as a whole. After the Great Depression they began moving us to fiat monetary system, this went into high gear after WWII. The next so called adjustment will be to compensate for the peaking, and eventual over over to the downside of; Energy, Food Production, Economic/Debt Cycle, and even the Population Cycle. With downturns in so many indicator cycles the next "adjustment", as you like to put it, is a severe draw down in currencies and a return of commodity backing to those currencies...

Which in my opinion is more of a reset, or rollover of the cycle, than an adjustment, but I agree the masses will view it as "saving the system"...

Many countries appear to be preparing for this eventuality, and basket backing of currencies is the next logical step. It is the only way to both relieve the overwhelming sovereign debt burden, and not endure a total collapse of the system, though many will believe it has collapsed...

But of course to do this countries will have to turn over control of vast amounts of their resources to the central banks (imagine that), which as usual the banks will compensate with paper, but it will give the system the appearance of stability, and the central bankers total control...

It's just logical...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


You can't back unlmited accumulation with a finite store. Any country that tries will soon find that it is out of sync with the rest of gloablising capitalism and will soon fall back in line. Listen, all this gold and other forms of value store belong to an age when your average housewife changed her washing machine (if she had one) nill time in her lifetime.

Now especially with China churning out value at a pace that makes ones eyes water, the economy's value store lies in its labour and consumers (plis energy..oil...equal to 12 workers).

This crisis harkens back to a regional capitalism that was inefficient due to the Cold War. Western labour was paid premium rates and advanced premium credit in order to bribe them. This lagging inefficiency took on mammoth proportions as the recently absorbed Eastern workers were equally bribed in record time resulting in a massive disconnect between values and the surplus this region was extracting.

The rest of the planet is simulatanerously coming on stream, Western labour will take a massive hit in terms of the inducements they grew used to although, they along with the rest of the global working force are being primed for the next bubble.

If anything, we are on the brink of another massive wealth bubble. There are more of these to come as well as capitalism continually reinvents itself. However, the parochial markets you long for are gone. Over. Until dialectic forces rise to the fore and that is in a time when world culture will be a mystery to you.

Banks, banks, banks...are just the mechanism thorugh whioh value flows and is distributed and amplified. There is no great magic about it. Destroy every bank tomorrow, and a whole infrastructufre of banks would rise to replace them.

I'll tell you now. There is no way they can revive limited currnecy backing. No way. Were that to happen, this whole edifice would collapse in a flash and vast amounts of wealth would vanish overnight.
 Quoting: Marxist


In case you haven't noticed, they are already planning for the declining phase of a lot of these cycles, hence the race for global resources. You are absolutely right when you say they needed the unlimited liquidity only a totally fiat currency could give them for the explosive growth we've seen since WWII, but you don't need that growth/liquidity when population begins to decline because food production is getting worse every year (as it has already declined each year for the last three years, and is projected to decline yet again this year).

In fact once the population begins to decline (an ever shrinking consumer base) if you haven't already started the process of removing that excess liquidity from the system you would already be too late, you would immediately, and in an extremely destructive emergency fashion, have to begin pulling massive amounts of liquidity out of the system or risk a total collapse that even they might not be able to pull themselves out of.

Everything in this world is a cycle, within a larger cycle, within a still larger cycle, until finally the cycle becomes so huge we cannot fathom an end to it so we call it infinite...

The economy, energy production, food production, population, none of these are immune from the cyclical nature of our universe.

So you see pretty soon the race for the remaining resources of the world is going to move to Central Banks, and the Central Banks are going to want those resources that all of these countries have been accumulating world wide to pay them back for all that meaningless paper they printed for them...

It will be contrived, it will be planned, and it will be manipulated to favor only the uber-elite, but it absolutely will happen...

They damn sure don't want us going back to a barter system of value for value, and the only way to keep a massively declining consumer base using your paper currency that you print up for them is to apply some perceived value to that paper...And it won't hurt the Central Banks feelings to own all of the resources of the world either (in the name of saving the system of course).

When the economic roll-over to a basket backed currency happens (and it will happen), the population crash will not be far behind...

Marx, you're problem is you are operating in the old paradigm of the post WWII world, when it was grow, grow, grow, inflate, inflate, inflate...you're looking at capital and monetary systems, but you're not looking at the big picture. Our population is nearing it's peak because food production already has peaked and is in decline, you will have to adjust to an entirely new paradigm, or you will not make it in this Brave New World they have planned for us...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


A lot of this is conjecture, especially as regards limits to growth. The only real objective determinant is the social-economy...the markets and culture. On the market front, there is nothing I see to suggest that we are in a terminal phase. Interventionism is a function of capital during downturns as are calls for deregulation during bubbles.

In fact, the emerging chaos in the Arab Empire coupled with the increasing dissatisfaction with Islamist solutions suggests even more strongly, along with the emergence of a bourgeoisie class in places such as China and India, that globalisation is very much on track.

Growth addictionally is not a subjective function of capital...it is an objective characteristic. There can be no capital markets (post mercantilism, mercantilism being what markets prior to WWII were closer to) without growth. Growth in fact occurs naturally until limits are reached. Limits will be marked by decoupling. However, every disaster does not the collapse of capitalism herald.

Capitalism WILL usher in a global cultur prior to its collapse. It will be a world that none of us can really envisage but it will be one where our parochialism will be a distant memory.

This is not to say that I am singing the praises of capital. Simply pointing out the relentless forces that will drive globalisation irrespective of what the various players may say from time to time.
 Quoting: Marxist


It's not conjecture...Food production has begun to decline, and it's putting extreme pressure on food prices, which in turn is putting extreme pressure on population. Population growth has slowed dramatically over the last decade...

You better believe me some economist out there already has a computer model that shows population growth vs food prices, and I suspect (mainly by the actions nations and central banks are currently taking) that we are rapidly nearing, or have just recently tipped over, the equilibrium point in that computer model...

And in nature, when populations decline, they decline rapidly until they find a new equilibrium...

To say food prices don't limit population, and to say population doesn't limit economic growth...I mean come on dude...who's gonna do all that consumin'?

[link to newsfeed.time.com]

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 02/09/2013 12:20 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Children of the Atom

User ID: 20257839
United States
02/09/2013 12:19 AM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
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this shit has been said time, after time, after time, after fucking time; i'm fed up of hearing about something that ain't going to happen ever! simple get on with your boring little life you slave.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33460327


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