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Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!

 
Marxist

User ID: 5770944
New Zealand
02/09/2013 12:19 AM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
...


You can't back unlmited accumulation with a finite store. Any country that tries will soon find that it is out of sync with the rest of gloablising capitalism and will soon fall back in line. Listen, all this gold and other forms of value store belong to an age when your average housewife changed her washing machine (if she had one) nill time in her lifetime.

Now especially with China churning out value at a pace that makes ones eyes water, the economy's value store lies in its labour and consumers (plis energy..oil...equal to 12 workers).

This crisis harkens back to a regional capitalism that was inefficient due to the Cold War. Western labour was paid premium rates and advanced premium credit in order to bribe them. This lagging inefficiency took on mammoth proportions as the recently absorbed Eastern workers were equally bribed in record time resulting in a massive disconnect between values and the surplus this region was extracting.

The rest of the planet is simulatanerously coming on stream, Western labour will take a massive hit in terms of the inducements they grew used to although, they along with the rest of the global working force are being primed for the next bubble.

If anything, we are on the brink of another massive wealth bubble. There are more of these to come as well as capitalism continually reinvents itself. However, the parochial markets you long for are gone. Over. Until dialectic forces rise to the fore and that is in a time when world culture will be a mystery to you.

Banks, banks, banks...are just the mechanism thorugh whioh value flows and is distributed and amplified. There is no great magic about it. Destroy every bank tomorrow, and a whole infrastructufre of banks would rise to replace them.

I'll tell you now. There is no way they can revive limited currnecy backing. No way. Were that to happen, this whole edifice would collapse in a flash and vast amounts of wealth would vanish overnight.
 Quoting: Marxist


In case you haven't noticed, they are already planning for the declining phase of a lot of these cycles, hence the race for global resources. You are absolutely right when you say they needed the unlimited liquidity only a totally fiat currency could give them for the explosive growth we've seen since WWII, but you don't need that growth/liquidity when population begins to decline because food production is getting worse every year (as it has already declined each year for the last three years, and is projected to decline yet again this year).

In fact once the population begins to decline (an ever shrinking consumer base) if you haven't already started the process of removing that excess liquidity from the system you would already be too late, you would immediately, and in an extremely destructive emergency fashion, have to begin pulling massive amounts of liquidity out of the system or risk a total collapse that even they might not be able to pull themselves out of.

Everything in this world is a cycle, within a larger cycle, within a still larger cycle, until finally the cycle becomes so huge we cannot fathom an end to it so we call it infinite...

The economy, energy production, food production, population, none of these are immune from the cyclical nature of our universe.

So you see pretty soon the race for the remaining resources of the world is going to move to Central Banks, and the Central Banks are going to want those resources that all of these countries have been accumulating world wide to pay them back for all that meaningless paper they printed for them...

It will be contrived, it will be planned, and it will be manipulated to favor only the uber-elite, but it absolutely will happen...

They damn sure don't want us going back to a barter system of value for value, and the only way to keep a massively declining consumer base using your paper currency that you print up for them is to apply some perceived value to that paper...And it won't hurt the Central Banks feelings to own all of the resources of the world either (in the name of saving the system of course).

When the economic roll-over to a basket backed currency happens (and it will happen), the population crash will not be far behind...

Marx, you're problem is you are operating in the old paradigm of the post WWII world, when it was grow, grow, grow, inflate, inflate, inflate...you're looking at capital and monetary systems, but you're not looking at the big picture. Our population is nearing it's peak because food production already has peaked and is in decline, you will have to adjust to an entirely new paradigm, or you will not make it in this Brave New World they have planned for us...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


A lot of this is conjecture, especially as regards limits to growth. The only real objective determinant is the social-economy...the markets and culture. On the market front, there is nothing I see to suggest that we are in a terminal phase. Interventionism is a function of capital during downturns as are calls for deregulation during bubbles.

In fact, the emerging chaos in the Arab Empire coupled with the increasing dissatisfaction with Islamist solutions suggests even more strongly, along with the emergence of a bourgeoisie class in places such as China and India, that globalisation is very much on track.

Growth addictionally is not a subjective function of capital...it is an objective characteristic. There can be no capital markets (post mercantilism, mercantilism being what markets prior to WWII were closer to) without growth. Growth in fact occurs naturally until limits are reached. Limits will be marked by decoupling. However, every disaster does not the collapse of capitalism herald.

Capitalism WILL usher in a global cultur prior to its collapse. It will be a world that none of us can really envisage but it will be one where our parochialism will be a distant memory.

This is not to say that I am singing the praises of capital. Simply pointing out the relentless forces that will drive globalisation irrespective of what the various players may say from time to time.
 Quoting: Marxist


It's not conjecture...Food production has begun to decline, and it's putting extreme pressure on food prices, which in turn is putting extreme pressure on population. Population growth has slowed dramatically over the last decade...

You better believe me some economist out there already has a computer model that shows population growth vs food prices, and I suspect (mainly by the actions nations and central banks are currently taking) that we are nearing the equilibrium point in that computer model...

And in nature, when populations decline, they decline rapidly until they find a new equilibrium...

To say food prices don't limit population, and to say population doesn't limit growth...I mean come on dude...

[link to newsfeed.time.com]
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Of course food prices are on the increase with a growing middle class. I would expect no less. In addition, consumer goods such as whiteware and electronics are on the decrease.

As production of the latter is optimised and accumulation grows the middle class, the former will increasingly inflate (and open up opportunities for cost cutting in this sector as well.) This is classic capitalism ST. I would have imagined, being an ex-banker, you wold have been aware of these forces.

In fact, globalist tendencies are following my expectations so closely, it is remarkable, especially in the geo-political arena. Never has there been such unanimity that not only must the momentum of capital be increasingly magnified by all means necessary, but all obstructions to such an outcome removed with all haste.

As for population, capital is quite sanguine in the face of increase...after all immigration is that other market magnifier and often resorted to in a bid to enhance accumulation.

The closing phase of capital will not only be marked by very visible crises, but in the rise of quite aticulate analyses of the causes. America's republican revolution after all took place in the closing years of the dark ages and in the midst of high political awareness which was remarkable given what had preceded it.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 740874
United States
02/09/2013 12:31 AM

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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
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In case you haven't noticed, they are already planning for the declining phase of a lot of these cycles, hence the race for global resources. You are absolutely right when you say they needed the unlimited liquidity only a totally fiat currency could give them for the explosive growth we've seen since WWII, but you don't need that growth/liquidity when population begins to decline because food production is getting worse every year (as it has already declined each year for the last three years, and is projected to decline yet again this year).

In fact once the population begins to decline (an ever shrinking consumer base) if you haven't already started the process of removing that excess liquidity from the system you would already be too late, you would immediately, and in an extremely destructive emergency fashion, have to begin pulling massive amounts of liquidity out of the system or risk a total collapse that even they might not be able to pull themselves out of.

Everything in this world is a cycle, within a larger cycle, within a still larger cycle, until finally the cycle becomes so huge we cannot fathom an end to it so we call it infinite...

The economy, energy production, food production, population, none of these are immune from the cyclical nature of our universe.

So you see pretty soon the race for the remaining resources of the world is going to move to Central Banks, and the Central Banks are going to want those resources that all of these countries have been accumulating world wide to pay them back for all that meaningless paper they printed for them...

It will be contrived, it will be planned, and it will be manipulated to favor only the uber-elite, but it absolutely will happen...

They damn sure don't want us going back to a barter system of value for value, and the only way to keep a massively declining consumer base using your paper currency that you print up for them is to apply some perceived value to that paper...And it won't hurt the Central Banks feelings to own all of the resources of the world either (in the name of saving the system of course).

When the economic roll-over to a basket backed currency happens (and it will happen), the population crash will not be far behind...

Marx, you're problem is you are operating in the old paradigm of the post WWII world, when it was grow, grow, grow, inflate, inflate, inflate...you're looking at capital and monetary systems, but you're not looking at the big picture. Our population is nearing it's peak because food production already has peaked and is in decline, you will have to adjust to an entirely new paradigm, or you will not make it in this Brave New World they have planned for us...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


A lot of this is conjecture, especially as regards limits to growth. The only real objective determinant is the social-economy...the markets and culture. On the market front, there is nothing I see to suggest that we are in a terminal phase. Interventionism is a function of capital during downturns as are calls for deregulation during bubbles.

In fact, the emerging chaos in the Arab Empire coupled with the increasing dissatisfaction with Islamist solutions suggests even more strongly, along with the emergence of a bourgeoisie class in places such as China and India, that globalisation is very much on track.

Growth addictionally is not a subjective function of capital...it is an objective characteristic. There can be no capital markets (post mercantilism, mercantilism being what markets prior to WWII were closer to) without growth. Growth in fact occurs naturally until limits are reached. Limits will be marked by decoupling. However, every disaster does not the collapse of capitalism herald.

Capitalism WILL usher in a global cultur prior to its collapse. It will be a world that none of us can really envisage but it will be one where our parochialism will be a distant memory.

This is not to say that I am singing the praises of capital. Simply pointing out the relentless forces that will drive globalisation irrespective of what the various players may say from time to time.
 Quoting: Marxist


It's not conjecture...Food production has begun to decline, and it's putting extreme pressure on food prices, which in turn is putting extreme pressure on population. Population growth has slowed dramatically over the last decade...

You better believe me some economist out there already has a computer model that shows population growth vs food prices, and I suspect (mainly by the actions nations and central banks are currently taking) that we are nearing the equilibrium point in that computer model...

And in nature, when populations decline, they decline rapidly until they find a new equilibrium...

To say food prices don't limit population, and to say population doesn't limit growth...I mean come on dude...

[link to newsfeed.time.com]
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Of course food prices are on the increase with a growing middle class. I would expect no less. In addition, consumer goods such as whiteware and electronics are on the decrease.

As production of the latter is optimised and accumulation grows the middle class, the former will increasingly inflate (and open up opportunities for cost cutting in this sector as well.) This is classic capitalism ST. I would have imagined, being an ex-banker, you wold have been aware of these forces.

In fact, globalist tendencies are following my expectations so closely, it is remarkable, especially in the geo-political arena. Never has there been such unanimity that not only must the momentum of capital be increasingly magnified by all means necessary, but all obstructions to such an outcome removed with all haste.

As for population, capital is quite sanguine in the face of increase...after all immigration is that other market magnifier and often resorted to in a bid to enhance accumulation.

The closing phase of capital will not only be marked by very visible crises, but in the rise of quite aticulate analyses of the causes. America's republican revolution after all took place in the closing years of the dark ages and in the midst of high political awareness which was remarkable given what had preceded it.
 Quoting: Marxist


I'm quite aware of supply and demand...in fact that's what I'm talking about...massive deflation, after a period of contrived hyper-inflation, because as world population decreases, the consumer base shrinks rapidly over a short period of time leading to a massive oversupply of consumer goods until another equilibrium is reached...

What they are trying to do is control that process rather than let the market have it's day...

It's what they do...

The following paper about global food production was peer reviewed in 2009 and has been proven pretty accurate to this point...

[link to www.escholarship.org]

We're actually pretty close in our view point of monetary systems and how they are managed in the real world, where we really differ is that you still believe we are in the ascendency of the indicator cycles, I believe we are peaking and about to roll-over into the declining phase of those cycles...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 02/09/2013 01:18 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33460327
United Kingdom
02/10/2013 12:12 PM
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Re: Watch The Financial Markets In Europe: The Situation Is Unraveling At A Frightening Pace!!
BSbsflag
this shit has been said time, after time, after time, after fucking time; i'm fed up of hearing about something that ain't going to happen ever! simple get on with your boring little life you slave.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33460327


jerkit

:bigbaby:
 Quoting: Children of the Atom


you look like one fucked up mess dude - where is your dummy?

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