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WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
02/10/2013 12:06 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
...


So you are saying that it was a loving God when he ordered the slaughtering thousands of innocent children because he disagreed with their dictator? Or do you think those children had chosen to be born in the country where that pharaoh ruled? Or any influence over the Israelites being slaves? Or even any influence over the Pharaoh at all?

Besides wasn't your God almighty to start with? Couldn't he just have poofed the Israelites to safety? Or kill the actual people responsible for enslaving them instead of innocent children?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22089462


You forget, God warned the Pharaoh that this would happen BEFORE it did, yet the Pharaoh did nothing to stop it. The Pharaoh could have freed the Isrealites to save the firstborn children of his kingdom, but he chose not to. God chose the firstborn children because he knew that was what the Egyptians held most dear, just as God held dear the Isrealites. Again, those children were God's Creation to do with as He pleases - yet He was gracious enough to give the Pharaoh a chance before taking them from him.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Go back and re-read it... the Bible says GOD hardened Pharoah's heart something like 11 times, so he wouldn't let the people go... You are misrepresenting the story by leaving the heart hardening out!

WHY?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I am not misrepresenting anything, I am simply telling you my understanding and interpretation of the bible. If you understand it differently, then so be it.

I do not look at the instances where the Pharaoh's heart was hardened as God's fault, as much as it was God's attempts to give validation to His Commandments to the Pharaoh. Again, you are looking at the bible with the INTENTION to find fault with God, instead of trusting in God. Your mistrust and paranoia will ruin you if you allow them to go unchecked.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Once again you "bear false witness" against me. I am not finding fault in GOD... why do you lie so easily?

I am telling it as it is presented in the Bible!

How dare you judge my "intent" - "Though shalt not judge"

You aren't intelligent or knowledgeable enough to judge me!

You aren't very good at this Christianity stuff are you?

Exodus 4:19-21 And the Lord said unto Moses in Midian, Go, return into Egypt: for all the men are dead which sought thy life.

And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt: and Moses took the rod of God in his hand.

(Note: The above verse suggests he is in Egypt and yet the next verse suggests he is told before he goes to Egypt - so this is very early on in the Pharoah story)

And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.


These verses correct your MISunderstandings again.

According to your reference book, the Bible, GOD says that he shall harden Pharoah's heart, before Moses has done anything. He wasn't even back in Egypt yet according to verse 21!

So to leave it out is pretty important, isn't it?

It's a huge mistake on your part.

No wonder you have a wolf as an avatar... Sheep beware!
Rising Son
Spirit Of The Wolf, Soul Of The Lion

User ID: 16148198
United States
02/10/2013 12:28 AM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
...


You forget, God warned the Pharaoh that this would happen BEFORE it did, yet the Pharaoh did nothing to stop it. The Pharaoh could have freed the Isrealites to save the firstborn children of his kingdom, but he chose not to. God chose the firstborn children because he knew that was what the Egyptians held most dear, just as God held dear the Isrealites. Again, those children were God's Creation to do with as He pleases - yet He was gracious enough to give the Pharaoh a chance before taking them from him.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Go back and re-read it... the Bible says GOD hardened Pharoah's heart something like 11 times, so he wouldn't let the people go... You are misrepresenting the story by leaving the heart hardening out!

WHY?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I am not misrepresenting anything, I am simply telling you my understanding and interpretation of the bible. If you understand it differently, then so be it.

I do not look at the instances where the Pharaoh's heart was hardened as God's fault, as much as it was God's attempts to give validation to His Commandments to the Pharaoh. Again, you are looking at the bible with the INTENTION to find fault with God, instead of trusting in God. Your mistrust and paranoia will ruin you if you allow them to go unchecked.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Once again you "bear false witness" against me. I am not finding fault in GOD... why do you lie so easily?

I am telling it as it is presented in the Bible!

How dare you judge my "intent" - "Though shalt not judge"

You aren't intelligent or knowledgeable enough to judge me!

You aren't very good at this Christianity stuff are you?

Exodus 4:19-21 And the Lord said unto Moses in Midian, Go, return into Egypt: for all the men are dead which sought thy life.

And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt: and Moses took the rod of God in his hand.

(Note: The above verse suggests he is in Egypt and yet the next verse suggests he is told before he goes to Egypt - so this is very early on in the Pharoah story)

And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.


These verses correct your MISunderstandings again.

According to your reference book, the Bible, GOD says that he shall harden Pharoah's heart, before Moses has done anything. He wasn't even back in Egypt yet according to verse 21!

So to leave it out is pretty important, isn't it?

It's a huge mistake on your part.

No wonder you have a wolf as an avatar... Sheep beware!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


What exactly are you insinuating? Do you agree with the other AC here who believes God murders innocent children? According to YOUR understanding of the bible, God intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart to force him into being stubborn, and refusing to free the slaves. Therefore, your understanding of the bible cast God as a murderous and savage entity with no purpose, when He is nothing of the sort.

What you fail to understand is that the Pharaoh is just as much a child of God as anyone else, and God gave him several chances to redeem himself and prove himself worthy, but he chose not to. The Pharaoh's first and foremost problem was pride in believing he was more powerful than God and that he was entitled to hold the Israelites as slaves if he wanted to. As with satan, pride is the number one most damaging sin, as it deceives yourself into thinking you are something you're not.

I caution you to be careful with your assumptions of other people. You assumed that I was intentionally trying to mislead people, when I am simply stating my interpretation of the bible. I have no agenda here, I am only engaging in friendly and civil discourse with you. Do not let this descend into something that it is not. Above all else, I love God and I trust in our Father's infinite wisdom. Do you?
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34053870
Australia
02/10/2013 12:35 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
so god created us imperfect beings in order to eternally torture most of us?

makes a lot of sense
Rising Son
Spirit Of The Wolf, Soul Of The Lion

User ID: 16148198
United States
02/10/2013 12:40 AM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
so god created us imperfect beings in order to eternally torture most of us?

makes a lot of sense
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34053870


When you view the world through a pessimistic lens, reality always looks grim. However, you are choosing to focus on only one aspect of Creation, our imperfection and condemnation. Look up instead of down, it is a much better view my friend :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
IAMIAM

User ID: 18016289
United States
02/10/2013 12:43 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
so god created us imperfect beings in order to eternally torture most of us?

makes a lot of sense
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34053870


When you view the world through a pessimistic lens, reality always looks grim. However, you are choosing to focus on only one aspect of Creation, our imperfection and condemnation. Look up instead of down, it is a much better view my friend :-)
 Quoting: Rising Son


You see more from the top of the mountain,

than at the bottom looking up at it.

Just sayin.
Thread: Chains

Have you the strength to break them?
Rising Son
Spirit Of The Wolf, Soul Of The Lion

User ID: 16148198
United States
02/10/2013 12:55 AM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
so god created us imperfect beings in order to eternally torture most of us?

makes a lot of sense
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34053870


When you view the world through a pessimistic lens, reality always looks grim. However, you are choosing to focus on only one aspect of Creation, our imperfection and condemnation. Look up instead of down, it is a much better view my friend :-)
 Quoting: Rising Son


You see more from the top of the mountain,

than at the bottom looking up at it.

Just sayin.
 Quoting: IAMIAM


This is true, but to get to the top of the mountain, you must first start at the bottom. Any climber knows this is a great feat, and it is one that you can revel in when you achieve the crest. We are always climbing...
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
IAMIAM

User ID: 18016289
United States
02/10/2013 01:05 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
so god created us imperfect beings in order to eternally torture most of us?

makes a lot of sense
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34053870


When you view the world through a pessimistic lens, reality always looks grim. However, you are choosing to focus on only one aspect of Creation, our imperfection and condemnation. Look up instead of down, it is a much better view my friend :-)
 Quoting: Rising Son


You see more from the top of the mountain,

than at the bottom looking up at it.

Just sayin.
 Quoting: IAMIAM


This is true, but to get to the top of the mountain, you must first start at the bottom. Any climber knows this is a great feat, and it is one that you can revel in when you achieve the crest. We are always climbing...
 Quoting: Rising Son


There is that we again...

You speak for ONE.

ONE.

No we we we.

tounge
Thread: Chains

Have you the strength to break them?
Rising Son
Spirit Of The Wolf, Soul Of The Lion

User ID: 16148198
United States
02/10/2013 01:13 AM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
...


When you view the world through a pessimistic lens, reality always looks grim. However, you are choosing to focus on only one aspect of Creation, our imperfection and condemnation. Look up instead of down, it is a much better view my friend :-)
 Quoting: Rising Son


You see more from the top of the mountain,

than at the bottom looking up at it.

Just sayin.
 Quoting: IAMIAM


This is true, but to get to the top of the mountain, you must first start at the bottom. Any climber knows this is a great feat, and it is one that you can revel in when you achieve the crest. We are always climbing...
 Quoting: Rising Son


There is that we again...

You speak for ONE.

ONE.

No we we we.

tounge
 Quoting: IAMIAM


Which ONE am I? Can you tell me who I am?
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
02/10/2013 01:17 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
...


Go back and re-read it... the Bible says GOD hardened Pharoah's heart something like 11 times, so he wouldn't let the people go... You are misrepresenting the story by leaving the heart hardening out!

WHY?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I am not misrepresenting anything, I am simply telling you my understanding and interpretation of the bible. If you understand it differently, then so be it.

I do not look at the instances where the Pharaoh's heart was hardened as God's fault, as much as it was God's attempts to give validation to His Commandments to the Pharaoh. Again, you are looking at the bible with the INTENTION to find fault with God, instead of trusting in God. Your mistrust and paranoia will ruin you if you allow them to go unchecked.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Once again you "bear false witness" against me. I am not finding fault in GOD... why do you lie so easily?

I am telling it as it is presented in the Bible!

How dare you judge my "intent" - "Though shalt not judge"

You aren't intelligent or knowledgeable enough to judge me!

You aren't very good at this Christianity stuff are you?

Exodus 4:19-21 And the Lord said unto Moses in Midian, Go, return into Egypt: for all the men are dead which sought thy life.

And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt: and Moses took the rod of God in his hand.

(Note: The above verse suggests he is in Egypt and yet the next verse suggests he is told before he goes to Egypt - so this is very early on in the Pharoah story)

And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.


These verses correct your MISunderstandings again.

According to your reference book, the Bible, GOD says that he shall harden Pharoah's heart, before Moses has done anything. He wasn't even back in Egypt yet according to verse 21!

So to leave it out is pretty important, isn't it?

It's a huge mistake on your part.

No wonder you have a wolf as an avatar... Sheep beware!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


What exactly are you insinuating? Do you agree with the other AC here who believes God murders innocent children? According to YOUR understanding of the bible, God intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart to force him into being stubborn, and refusing to free the slaves. Therefore, your understanding of the bible cast God as a murderous and savage entity with no purpose, when He is nothing of the sort.

What you fail to understand is that the Pharaoh is just as much a child of God as anyone else, and God gave him several chances to redeem himself and prove himself worthy, but he chose not to. The Pharaoh's first and foremost problem was pride in believing he was more powerful than God and that he was entitled to hold the Israelites as slaves if he wanted to. As with satan, pride is the number one most damaging sin, as it deceives yourself into thinking you are something you're not.

I caution you to be careful with your assumptions of other people. You assumed that I was intentionally trying to mislead people, when I am simply stating my interpretation of the bible. I have no agenda here, I am only engaging in friendly and civil discourse with you. Do not let this descend into something that it is not. Above all else, I love God and I trust in our Father's infinite wisdom. Do you?
 Quoting: Rising Son


WOW! I'll have to spell it out gently but succinctly.

The BIBLE says GOD DID intentionally harden Pharoah's heart! You need to read it over and over until it sinks in!

I shout - GOD does not kill innocents!

It's not my understanding of the Bible that is in question... It is actually what it says... I didn't write the Bible, but I did read it and I do comprehend it!

No need to caution me... You are stating things wrongly.

Your understandings are incorrect, which my previous post showed.

What is there to interpret?... The Bible is clear on the hardening of the heart issue. Very clear!

The Bible, through Moses states GOD ordered these things... not me!

The story is flawed massively!

GOD does not work this way. Moses falsified things for his own purposes.

Believe Moses at your own peril. Just because people put "GOD said" in front of it and it appears in a dusty old book, doesn't make it true.

That is where discernment has to come in.

The Bible says GOD ordered these things and that GOD kills innocents.

GOD does not Kill innocents!

Anything that undermines GOD's love and omniscience is wrong!

Can I defend GOD any louder?
IAMIAM

User ID: 18016289
United States
02/10/2013 01:17 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
...


You see more from the top of the mountain,

than at the bottom looking up at it.

Just sayin.
 Quoting: IAMIAM


This is true, but to get to the top of the mountain, you must first start at the bottom. Any climber knows this is a great feat, and it is one that you can revel in when you achieve the crest. We are always climbing...
 Quoting: Rising Son


There is that we again...

You speak for ONE.

ONE.

No we we we.

tounge
 Quoting: IAMIAM


Which ONE am I? Can you tell me who I am?
 Quoting: Rising Son


1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​11111111...



You tell me, which one are you?
Thread: Chains

Have you the strength to break them?
Rising Son
Spirit Of The Wolf, Soul Of The Lion

User ID: 16148198
United States
02/10/2013 01:18 AM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
...


This is true, but to get to the top of the mountain, you must first start at the bottom. Any climber knows this is a great feat, and it is one that you can revel in when you achieve the crest. We are always climbing...
 Quoting: Rising Son


There is that we again...

You speak for ONE.

ONE.

No we we we.

tounge
 Quoting: IAMIAM


Which ONE am I? Can you tell me who I am?
 Quoting: Rising Son


1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111​11111111...



You tell me, which one are you?
 Quoting: IAMIAM


I am just one of many :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
IAMIAM

User ID: 18016289
United States
02/10/2013 01:19 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
I am just one of many :-)
 Quoting: Rising Son


clappa


So am I!

Last Edited by IAMIAM on 02/10/2013 01:20 AM
Thread: Chains

Have you the strength to break them?
Rising Son
Spirit Of The Wolf, Soul Of The Lion

User ID: 16148198
United States
02/10/2013 01:23 AM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
...


I am not misrepresenting anything, I am simply telling you my understanding and interpretation of the bible. If you understand it differently, then so be it.

I do not look at the instances where the Pharaoh's heart was hardened as God's fault, as much as it was God's attempts to give validation to His Commandments to the Pharaoh. Again, you are looking at the bible with the INTENTION to find fault with God, instead of trusting in God. Your mistrust and paranoia will ruin you if you allow them to go unchecked.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Once again you "bear false witness" against me. I am not finding fault in GOD... why do you lie so easily?

I am telling it as it is presented in the Bible!

How dare you judge my "intent" - "Though shalt not judge"

You aren't intelligent or knowledgeable enough to judge me!

You aren't very good at this Christianity stuff are you?

Exodus 4:19-21 And the Lord said unto Moses in Midian, Go, return into Egypt: for all the men are dead which sought thy life.

And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt: and Moses took the rod of God in his hand.

(Note: The above verse suggests he is in Egypt and yet the next verse suggests he is told before he goes to Egypt - so this is very early on in the Pharoah story)

And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.


These verses correct your MISunderstandings again.

According to your reference book, the Bible, GOD says that he shall harden Pharoah's heart, before Moses has done anything. He wasn't even back in Egypt yet according to verse 21!

So to leave it out is pretty important, isn't it?

It's a huge mistake on your part.

No wonder you have a wolf as an avatar... Sheep beware!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


What exactly are you insinuating? Do you agree with the other AC here who believes God murders innocent children? According to YOUR understanding of the bible, God intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart to force him into being stubborn, and refusing to free the slaves. Therefore, your understanding of the bible cast God as a murderous and savage entity with no purpose, when He is nothing of the sort.

What you fail to understand is that the Pharaoh is just as much a child of God as anyone else, and God gave him several chances to redeem himself and prove himself worthy, but he chose not to. The Pharaoh's first and foremost problem was pride in believing he was more powerful than God and that he was entitled to hold the Israelites as slaves if he wanted to. As with satan, pride is the number one most damaging sin, as it deceives yourself into thinking you are something you're not.

I caution you to be careful with your assumptions of other people. You assumed that I was intentionally trying to mislead people, when I am simply stating my interpretation of the bible. I have no agenda here, I am only engaging in friendly and civil discourse with you. Do not let this descend into something that it is not. Above all else, I love God and I trust in our Father's infinite wisdom. Do you?
 Quoting: Rising Son


WOW! I'll have to spell it out gently but succinctly.

The BIBLE says GOD DID intentionally harden Pharoah's heart! You need to read it over and over until it sinks in!

I shout - GOD does not kill innocents!

It's not my understanding of the Bible that is in question... It is actually what it says... I didn't write the Bible, but I did read it and I do comprehend it!

No need to caution me... You are stating things wrongly.

Your understandings are incorrect, which my previous post showed.

What is there to interpret?... The Bible is clear on the hardening of the heart issue. Very clear!

The Bible, through Moses states GOD ordered these things... not me!

The story is flawed massively!

GOD does not work this way. Moses falsified things for his own purposes.

Believe Moses at your own peril. Just because people put "GOD said" in front of it and it appears in a dusty old book, doesn't make it true.

That is where discernment has to come in.

The Bible says GOD ordered these things and that GOD kills innocents.

GOD does not Kill innocents!

Anything that undermines GOD's love and omniscience is wrong!

Can I defend GOD any louder?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I am sorry for doubting you, it would appear that you and I agree on more than either one of us thought initially. The Bible is a book written by man, interpreted by man, and justified by man. As man is flawed, so it must be that the bible is not perfect as well. This is not to say that the Bible is a bad book by any stretch of the imagination. The Bible is essential to connect the old with the new, and to continue the work of God the Father :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21500116
Canada
02/10/2013 01:26 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
Well said, OP - very thought out and heart felt synopsis and assessment, thank you :-)

What I would say is that many Christians are also deceived into believing that by simply invoking the name of Jesus Christ and stating audibly that He is their Lord and Savior, they are saved. Many fail to grasp the idea and concept of repentance and atonement, in that yes Jesus Christ died for our sins, but He did not excuse us from the pain associated with them nor did He wipe our slate clean if we simply call out his name. Jesus' example is what truly saves us, because we see the pain He went through and endured for sins that were not His own, we see the utter anguish and fear He experienced in the Garden of Gethsemane, and this inspires us to change our ways, to rethink our lives, and to follow the example He died to give us, then rose again to validate for us.
 Quoting: Rising Son


hf
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2013 01:48 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
...


Once again you "bear false witness" against me. I am not finding fault in GOD... why do you lie so easily?

I am telling it as it is presented in the Bible!

How dare you judge my "intent" - "Though shalt not judge"

You aren't intelligent or knowledgeable enough to judge me!

You aren't very good at this Christianity stuff are you?

Exodus 4:19-21 And the Lord said unto Moses in Midian, Go, return into Egypt: for all the men are dead which sought thy life.

And Moses took his wife and his sons, and set them upon an ass, and he returned to the land of Egypt: and Moses took the rod of God in his hand.

(Note: The above verse suggests he is in Egypt and yet the next verse suggests he is told before he goes to Egypt - so this is very early on in the Pharoah story)

And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.


These verses correct your MISunderstandings again.

According to your reference book, the Bible, GOD says that he shall harden Pharoah's heart, before Moses has done anything. He wasn't even back in Egypt yet according to verse 21!

So to leave it out is pretty important, isn't it?

It's a huge mistake on your part.

No wonder you have a wolf as an avatar... Sheep beware!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


What exactly are you insinuating? Do you agree with the other AC here who believes God murders innocent children? According to YOUR understanding of the bible, God intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart to force him into being stubborn, and refusing to free the slaves. Therefore, your understanding of the bible cast God as a murderous and savage entity with no purpose, when He is nothing of the sort.

What you fail to understand is that the Pharaoh is just as much a child of God as anyone else, and God gave him several chances to redeem himself and prove himself worthy, but he chose not to. The Pharaoh's first and foremost problem was pride in believing he was more powerful than God and that he was entitled to hold the Israelites as slaves if he wanted to. As with satan, pride is the number one most damaging sin, as it deceives yourself into thinking you are something you're not.

I caution you to be careful with your assumptions of other people. You assumed that I was intentionally trying to mislead people, when I am simply stating my interpretation of the bible. I have no agenda here, I am only engaging in friendly and civil discourse with you. Do not let this descend into something that it is not. Above all else, I love God and I trust in our Father's infinite wisdom. Do you?
 Quoting: Rising Son


WOW! I'll have to spell it out gently but succinctly.

The BIBLE says GOD DID intentionally harden Pharoah's heart! You need to read it over and over until it sinks in!

I shout - GOD does not kill innocents!

It's not my understanding of the Bible that is in question... It is actually what it says... I didn't write the Bible, but I did read it and I do comprehend it!

No need to caution me... You are stating things wrongly.

Your understandings are incorrect, which my previous post showed.

What is there to interpret?... The Bible is clear on the hardening of the heart issue. Very clear!

The Bible, through Moses states GOD ordered these things... not me!

The story is flawed massively!

GOD does not work this way. Moses falsified things for his own purposes.

Believe Moses at your own peril. Just because people put "GOD said" in front of it and it appears in a dusty old book, doesn't make it true.

That is where discernment has to come in.

The Bible says GOD ordered these things and that GOD kills innocents.

GOD does not Kill innocents!

Anything that undermines GOD's love and omniscience is wrong!

Can I defend GOD any louder?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I am sorry for doubting you, it would appear that you and I agree on more than either one of us thought initially. The Bible is a book written by man, interpreted by man, and justified by man. As man is flawed, so it must be that the bible is not perfect as well. This is not to say that the Bible is a bad book by any stretch of the imagination. The Bible is essential to connect the old with the new, and to continue the work of God the Father :-)
 Quoting: Rising Son


I apologise for speaking so bluntly... But it is often necessary.

Often I am replying to you and others but speaking also to those who just read but don't post.

Hopefully, they will improve their study methods and analyse what they read and accept more thoroughly.

I never undermine GOD.
Rising Son
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02/10/2013 01:55 AM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
...


What exactly are you insinuating? Do you agree with the other AC here who believes God murders innocent children? According to YOUR understanding of the bible, God intentionally hardened Pharaoh's heart to force him into being stubborn, and refusing to free the slaves. Therefore, your understanding of the bible cast God as a murderous and savage entity with no purpose, when He is nothing of the sort.

What you fail to understand is that the Pharaoh is just as much a child of God as anyone else, and God gave him several chances to redeem himself and prove himself worthy, but he chose not to. The Pharaoh's first and foremost problem was pride in believing he was more powerful than God and that he was entitled to hold the Israelites as slaves if he wanted to. As with satan, pride is the number one most damaging sin, as it deceives yourself into thinking you are something you're not.

I caution you to be careful with your assumptions of other people. You assumed that I was intentionally trying to mislead people, when I am simply stating my interpretation of the bible. I have no agenda here, I am only engaging in friendly and civil discourse with you. Do not let this descend into something that it is not. Above all else, I love God and I trust in our Father's infinite wisdom. Do you?
 Quoting: Rising Son


WOW! I'll have to spell it out gently but succinctly.

The BIBLE says GOD DID intentionally harden Pharoah's heart! You need to read it over and over until it sinks in!

I shout - GOD does not kill innocents!

It's not my understanding of the Bible that is in question... It is actually what it says... I didn't write the Bible, but I did read it and I do comprehend it!

No need to caution me... You are stating things wrongly.

Your understandings are incorrect, which my previous post showed.

What is there to interpret?... The Bible is clear on the hardening of the heart issue. Very clear!

The Bible, through Moses states GOD ordered these things... not me!

The story is flawed massively!

GOD does not work this way. Moses falsified things for his own purposes.

Believe Moses at your own peril. Just because people put "GOD said" in front of it and it appears in a dusty old book, doesn't make it true.

That is where discernment has to come in.

The Bible says GOD ordered these things and that GOD kills innocents.

GOD does not Kill innocents!

Anything that undermines GOD's love and omniscience is wrong!

Can I defend GOD any louder?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I am sorry for doubting you, it would appear that you and I agree on more than either one of us thought initially. The Bible is a book written by man, interpreted by man, and justified by man. As man is flawed, so it must be that the bible is not perfect as well. This is not to say that the Bible is a bad book by any stretch of the imagination. The Bible is essential to connect the old with the new, and to continue the work of God the Father :-)
 Quoting: Rising Son


I apologise for speaking so bluntly... But it is often necessary.

Often I am replying to you and others but speaking also to those who just read but don't post.

Hopefully, they will improve their study methods and analyse what they read and accept more thoroughly.

I never undermine GOD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Thank you for talking with me :-)

hf
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

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Stu

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02/10/2013 01:57 AM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
Pretend you are all alone in the Universe.


Then what? With you judging nobody (because no one is around)and only yourself to blame, then,

what do you do?
_____________________________________
There is no use removing doubts one by one. If we clear one doubt another doubt will arise and there will be no end of doubts. But, if by seeking the doubter, the doubter is found to be really non-existent, then all doubts will cease. -- Ramana Maharshi


You have to keep breaking
your heart until it opens.

~ Rumi
Rising Son
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02/10/2013 02:05 AM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
Pretend you are all alone in the Universe.


Then what? With you judging nobody (because no one is around)and only yourself to blame, then,

what do you do?
 Quoting: Stu


I have taken this walk with others, and it only leads to disappointment. In a world where indifference and apathy hold sway, evil prevails.

Thread: The Greatest Purveyor Of Evil In The World Is The Indifference And Apathy Of Good People
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

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Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/10/2013 02:54 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
yes true, "we once lived" as perfect, but "an enemy" whom God created [true], god "knew" before it all happened.

"THINK" for one minute "why" did he "allow it all to happen"????
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33031321


I do not believe God created an enemy.

I believe Man created his own enemy.

God just waits patiently for us to overcome our own enemy and return to him.

I have done this by the way.

If you need help doing it yourself, I am here.
 Quoting: IAMIAM


thanks so much for your support, god "created" lucifer that became his "enemy" even though God "KNEW" he would do what he did to his own children.
IAMIAM

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02/10/2013 03:01 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
thanks so much for your support, god "created" lucifer that became his "enemy" even though God "KNEW" he would do what he did to his own children.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33031321


And this makes sense to you why?

It isn't in scripture.

And don't try to tell me it is because I will embarass you.
Thread: Chains

Have you the strength to break them?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/10/2013 03:06 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
I think one of the issues is people want to think that they can behave any way they want and then think they can just walk into God's Holy house when the time comes. We live in a world full of spoiled brats who have no respect for God or even their own parents.

People who have chosen to follow Christ "should" choose to walk on a Holy path on a daily basis... As Jesus says... "now sin no more". Are we perfect... no, but we have a savior who forgives when we stumble.

I think people in this world enjoy sin and don't really care about the repercussions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1581136


yes very true, we as "Christians" are "imperfect" because we often times "do fall" but it is "the getting back up" and seeking his 4giveness that matters, even though he "knew" we would often fall.

NO MAN, especially "Christian" can say they are "without sin" because "when such does happen" God usually "takes them home" anyways.!!

all believers "walks" are different, but we all "often" have to deal "with the very same sins" as others endure in their own walk walk of life while on this earth.!!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/10/2013 03:12 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
so god created us imperfect beings in order to eternally torture most of us?

makes a lot of sense
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34053870


NO NO NO, "not all born on this planet belong to God at all. "why" god "allowed" Lucifer to have "offspring" was for a "reason" and it has to do with "perfecting" his own children.

"sometimes" children "have to learn the hard way" right.????
it seems that is the way with a lot of "Christians" as his children "learning" the hard way, but in the end "God" still "did the work" in each of us.!!!!
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!

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IAMIAM

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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
so god created us imperfect beings in order to eternally torture most of us?

makes a lot of sense
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34053870


NO NO NO, "not all born on this planet belong to God at all. "why" god "allowed" Lucifer to have "offspring" was for a "reason" and it has to do with "perfecting" his own children.

"sometimes" children "have to learn the hard way" right.????
it seems that is the way with a lot of "Christians" as his children "learning" the hard way, but in the end "God" still "did the work" in each of us.!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33031321


Did the Gideons give you a different bible than they gave me?

Are you even reading the Bible?

It sounds to me like you haven't got a clue, and to compensate for not having a clue, you are making some shit up.

I can and I will embarrass the shit out of you WITH scripture if you do not fix your present situation.
Thread: Chains

Have you the strength to break them?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/10/2013 03:18 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
I would say that Jesus Christ's example is God's Standard, and while there is no way possible for us to live as graciously, humbly, or lovingly as Jesus did, that does not excuse us from trying and striving to. Our Father knows our hearts, just as He knows His Son's heart, and those hearts that strive to follow His Son's heart are truly His children.
 Quoting: Rising Son


yes you are right, it is all "god" in us that causes or gives us "the desire" to become "like his son JEUS CHRIST, even though "we often fall".!!!!
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
you daft? Christians winning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33865934


it is not a matter of "winning" here on earth, but this life is surely "a race" and their is "A PRIZE" at the end of it all.!!!!
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
We all need Jesus' help - so let Him help you!


 Quoting: Rising Son


yes very true, we "have not" because we "ask not", but often times "our faults" realized can then "become his strength within us"!!!!
IAMIAM

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02/10/2013 03:26 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
yes very true, we "have not" because we "ask not", but often times "our faults" realized can then "become his strength within us"!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33031321


This is ALL he asked anyone to do.

18And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 19And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 20Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. 21And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. 22Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. 23And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. 24And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 25For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 26And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? 27And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.


Now what exactly is so hard about doing this?

What?
Thread: Chains

Have you the strength to break them?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/10/2013 04:49 AM
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
so god created us imperfect beings in order to eternally torture most of us?

makes a lot of sense
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34053870


NO NO NO, "not all born on this planet belong to God at all. "why" god "allowed" Lucifer to have "offspring" was for a "reason" and it has to do with "perfecting" his own children.

"sometimes" children "have to learn the hard way" right.????
it seems that is the way with a lot of "Christians" as his children "learning" the hard way, but in the end "God" still "did the work" in each of us.!!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33031321


Did the Gideons give you a different bible than they gave me?

Are you even reading the Bible?

It sounds to me like you haven't got a clue, and to compensate for not having a clue, you are making some shit up.

I can and I will embarrass the shit out of you WITH scripture if you do not fix your present situation.
 Quoting: IAMIAM


are you a CHRISTIAN THEN.????
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Re: WE ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S STANDARD!!!!
Thread: REPENT SINNERS...or ELSE..or else what you might ask?