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What the Bible Really Says about Women

 
Anonymous Coward
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John was the beloved Apostle.

Really?


Raymond E. Brown (and Elaine Pagels, et al.) suggests that ... Mary's separate existence in the two common scenes with the Beloved Disciple were modifications hastily added later to give validity to the gospel in the late 2nd century.

Critical scholars recognize that both scenarios contain internal inconsistencies, possibly stemming from rough editing to make Mary Magdalene and the Beloved Disciple appear as different persons.

Textual criticism is a very important part of biblical studies - let's not state opinion as fact until we know all the facts!
Keep2theCode (OP)

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s226



nw
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 942612


Nice summary of your thesis!
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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Quote away people, those of us that don't buy into it just see more blather from a book we take with a grain of salt and not as sworn truth, because it's not.
nw
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DEFINING MYTH

The first reaction from people when I suggest that the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ is a myth, is to be outraged.

The reason for their outrage is that they do not understand the nature of myth.

They will say that I am insinuating that the crucifixion of Jesus did not occur.

Not so.

MYTH DOES NOT MEAN THAT SOMETHING DID NOT HAPPEN

By understanding the myth I celebrate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

Not as religion presents it to us literally, so that we are to consider a God that is not capable of forgiveness without resorting to torture and bloodshed.

THIS IS A CRUCIFIXION IN THE UNIVERSE AND IN US

When we understand the myth, we will realize that this is a crucifixion of consciousness, acted out in the universe, and from within our bodies.

DEFINITION OF THE WORD MYTH

A story presented as historical, dealing with the cosmological and supernatural traditions of a people and their God. An allegory.

In other words, a myth makes a story seem historical, but it really has another meaning, which is cosmological, or supernatural.





Parables, the carnal mind and the devil


THE BIBLE AS SYMBOL

Our first order of business in this quest is to see if we can justify considering the Bible as symbolic rather then literal.

We must use the Bible itself.


THE BIBLE ITSELF SAYS IT IS SYMBOLIC AND SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY

1.2Corinthians 3:6 Who also has made us ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.

So here is the Bible itself telling us not to take it literally.

AGAIN THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT STORIES ARE ALLEGORY

2. Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory:

Remember that as we showed the definition of a myth, it included the term allegory.

Here again the Bible tells us it is symbolic.


THE BIBLE SAYS JESUS ALWAYS SPOKE SYMBOLICALLY

3. Matthew 13:34 All these things spoke Jesus to the multitude in parables; and without a parable he did not speak to them:

The Bible is saying that all of Jesus statements were symbolic.


THE STORIES ALL HAVE HIDDEN MEANINGS BUT TO UNDERSTAND THEM YOU MUST ENTER WITHIN YOURSELF IN MEDITATION AS JESUS INSTRUCTED. "Be silent before the Sovereign LORD".


4. Mark 4:11 And he said to them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without, all these things are done in parables:


NOTICE THAT LINE ABOVE. THEM THAT ARE WITHOUT DO NOT UNDERSTAND, ONLY THEM THAT ARE WITHIN, WHO PRACTICE THE SINGLE EYE AS JESUS INSTRUCTED

Here the fact that this is all consciousness is made clear.


Bill Donahue of Hiddenmeanings


It says to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God.


(¯`v´¯)
♥.`•.¸.•´ ♥ ♥...





In two thousand years who has proclaimed that all of those crazy nonsensical stories in the bible were MYTHOLOGY? Who has proclaimed from the pulpit that the word of God in the bible is written in deep symbolism and never LITERAL? SEE towards bottom of page! religion has kept all the true spiritual truths in the bible locked up, so that you could not utilize the knowledge for your own personal spiritual growth.



THE OLD TESTAMENT SPEAKS OF THE SAME MYSTERY

Psalm 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Here the Bible states that GOD speaks in parables .

And what are dark sayings of old.

Obviously they are symbolic statements.

Finally the Book of Proverbs describes wisdom.

It explains how one becomes wise.

TO HAVE WISDOM ONE MUST UNDERSTAND DARK SAYINGS

Proverbs 1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

OBVIOUSLY THE BIBLE SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY AND NEITHER SHOULD THE CRUCIFIXION

Thus we have substantial evidence throughout the Bible to suggest that it is a symbolic book, and should not be taken literally.

With this evidence, we can then proceed to look at the crucifixion of Jesus Christ as a symbolic story.



Wake up squares, the bible is NOT a literal book of anything.













nw
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Why do people who hate the Bible or otherwise don't care what it says, feel the need to post in threads about what it says?

Just a rhetorical question.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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Scripture itself says that "there is no male and female... for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Jesus Himself said "Not so among you" because his kingdom is upside down to the world's, where there is a chain of command. He demonstrated true Christian leadership when he washed his disciples' feet.

A Christian leader is a guard and nurturer, just as a good shepherd feeds and protects the sheep. There is no "lording over" but only humble service in the stewardship of those who belong to Another. So no Christian should aspire to rule over others, or take authority over them, or demand that others serve them. We are "one body with many parts and only one Head" which is Christ.

Male and female are biological realities; they are not identical bodies. But in spirit we are all one who are in Christ. Those who think they have rank are to lay it down as Jesus did per Phil. 2:5-11.

It is the Holy Spirit who gives spiritual gifts to each believer. So leading, protecting, and providing are gift-based rather than flesh-based; the gifts do not come in pink or blue boxes. So let's go beyond the world's way of thinking and let the Holy Spirit freely operate in all who are saved.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


There is life in these words. Peace be with you
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Scripture itself says that "there is no male and female... for you are all one in Christ Jesus". Jesus Himself said "Not so among you" because his kingdom is upside down to the world's, where there is a chain of command. He demonstrated true Christian leadership when he washed his disciples' feet.

A Christian leader is a guard and nurturer, just as a good shepherd feeds and protects the sheep. There is no "lording over" but only humble service in the stewardship of those who belong to Another. So no Christian should aspire to rule over others, or take authority over them, or demand that others serve them. We are "one body with many parts and only one Head" which is Christ.

Male and female are biological realities; they are not identical bodies. But in spirit we are all one who are in Christ. Those who think they have rank are to lay it down as Jesus did per Phil. 2:5-11.

It is the Holy Spirit who gives spiritual gifts to each believer. So leading, protecting, and providing are gift-based rather than flesh-based; the gifts do not come in pink or blue boxes. So let's go beyond the world's way of thinking and let the Holy Spirit freely operate in all who are saved.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


There is life in these words. Peace be with you
 Quoting: Harbinger Of Truth

Peace to you as well, thank you.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
nw
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Below is a sample of how to read the bible SPIRITUALLY and NOT literally.

This is the famous Abraham sacrificing his first born son to God, now the reason why Christians are such lower minded animals, is because they fail to see the spiritual truth in the parable, and believe that God was really testing some Old guy on a mountain top.


The ancient scriptures were clear that it was the "firstborn" who was to receive the inheritance. The "firstborn", who was to receive the blessing.


Well, Ishmael who became the father of the Arab people was the "firstborn" of Abraham. But because of a hatred between Sarah and Hagar, Ishmael was sent away. The inheritance that was rightly his, was denied.


So Abraham was not sacrificing his "firstborn" during the Isaac incident on the mountain. That is why his hand was stopped.


For the firstborn represents the physical (negative thought), that which comes after it, is the spirit.


If "God" had allowed the killing of Isaac, it would have resulted in the killing of the spirit and not the flesh.


Ishmael is that part of all of us that roams the desert of the mind and fights to overcome the wild things (thoughts) of the lower nature.


He was the firstborn and as says," all the firstborn, whatsoever opens the womb among the children of Israel, both of men and of beast, it is mine. Exodus 13:2 That's lower mind stuff. It belongs to God (the higher consciousness. Eve is a symbol of the mental aspect of our nature.

Eve, our thoughts, consider the temptation from the snake our spine, our flesh.


Our mind then communicates with our body Adam , and the act is carried out.

Psychologically correct. Spirit Eve, Body Adam and carnal mind snake. No problem


THE GARDEN


The name of the garden where our heroes dwell is Eden. The word Eden means delight. In Genesis 2:8,we are shown the location of this garden The scripture says that the garden is Eastward in Eden.


Whenever you look North, East is always on the right side. Therefore the garden of delight is to the right.



When we shut down the thoughts of the mind we are sacrificing the natural part so we can be given that which is spiritual.


So we see why Abel's sacrifice was acceptable and Cain's was not.


Look at Genesis 4:4,"the Lord had respect to Abel's animal offerings. In other words this is the way that we please God. Sacrificing the natural part in meditation by taking no thought, and overcoming the animal mind.





Genesis 4:5 Unto Cain he had no respect. Ideas , techniques. Cain offered vegetables to god, god has no use for vegetables Cain did not offer his lower mind thoughts, he was trying to fool God in this allegory of mind stuff.



Those things that come out of our minds and the minds of others are not acceptable.



They are the first born and the only way to get to God is to sacrifice them. The only way to do that is by taking no thought in meditation.


Genesis 4:8 Now we get to the part where Cain plots the death of Abel. Remember this is allegory. It really is referring to the carnal part of your mind that works diligently to overcome any leanings to the spiritual.


That part that is in harmony with God, (Abel), can be destroyed by the part that is not, (Cain). Yet both parts, carnal and spiritual are important for us to function as individuals.


There are countries that are very spiritual but have little material wealth, consider India. This is Abel.


There are countries that have much material wealth but little spirit, consider America. This is Cain. There must be a balance. One should not kill out the other.



Genesis 4:14 points out what we are referring to. The suggestion is that Cain will be slain again and again.


Notice the wording. "everyone that finds me shall slay me". How can you slay someone over and over LITERALLY? You can't!!!



This means that there will be a feeling of total revulsion against the lower mind .


Where do you see that. You see it in religion. There is an attitude of totally eliminating any involvement with the lower carnal mind, with the flesh. But.



Genesis 4:15 says that a mark is placed on Cain to protect him.


It is important that all life function with positive and negative. It is inherent in nature.


So the scripture tells us that God will not allow the destruction of the negative or lower animal part of human kind.


But, it is equally important to understand that the lower part must not be allowed to hold sway over the higher. The negative Emotions (the red horse), should never be in the lead.


Cain (the emotions) must take second place to Abel (the higher mind). The physical must take second place to the spiritual, or it will self destruct.


Both the lower mind (animal nature) and the higher mind (god consciousness) are essential to make up the fully functional human being, you can not literally kill out the lower left carnal mind or you will wind up on a street corner somewhere, talking to yourself holding up a sign that says, hungry please help. Or such a person will simply be a basket case their whole lives, you must feed the physical nature, you must eat and take care of all bodily functions, yet these things of the physical should never take sway over the higher thinking/mind. This is where religion fails and falls flat on their ignorant faces.



They tell you don't drink this, don't drink alcohol, don't smoke, don't have sex for pleasure etc etc... and leave the human mind in shambles, because they are are telling you to cut off the sensations of the physical body, the bible says "give to Caesar (the physical) what is Caesars, and give to god (your attention to the higher in meditation/prayer) what is gods" But they don't get that, so they teach young people not to have sex, and it destroys them, physically and spiritually/mentally.

"God is not SUBJECT to the carnal (physical) nature, neither can he be" says the Bible.


That's because god is ONLY concerned with you from the neck up, and that's true.


Religion has destroyed the minds of so many with their corrupt teachings, it's no wonder that the whole world is stark mad.


Mass madness; that's religion, that's governments as well as the corporations that run everything. The spirit is in shambles, the Christ consciousness (the right hemisphere of the brain) is shutdown, on purpose by them, for control purposes. The 60's movement scared the heck out of the gov't, they feared losing control of the masses, and went to great lengths to squelch that whole 60's revolution and free spirited movement.


The US Gov't killed John Lennon, because he was a huge threat in the way of keeping the sheeple under their control, Mark David Chapman was just a CIA patsy like Oswald. In the Bible Jesus was killed because he was a threat to both religion and the crown of authority in that mythology, but, do you see what the story of Jesus is trying to tell you, that they (the system/matrix) governments and religion are your enemy. They are on the outside, but the kingdom of god/good is only found on the INSIDE.

Real Revolution



Religion, government and the mob/corporations, they alone are the drug that kills. These drugs should be ILLEGAL










YES!!!, That;s how to read that crazy book, now QUIT literalizing the MYTHS.












nw
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gives
nw
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"These are the esoteric sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Judas Thomas the twin wrote down. And he said, "Whoever finds the inner meaning of these sayings shall not taste death."


The INNER meaning, NOT the OUTER Literal dead letter meaning, but the INNER spiritual meaning, that's what Jesus said. Yet no one pays attention. You know why? Because to follow the true teachings you have to abandon them (the group), the family tradition, and people are NOT willing to do that. The desire to be part of THEM is stronger than wanting to know the TRUTH.


One must learn "The Inner Meaning of These Sayings" And the entire Bible.


ڿڰۣ☸¸.•*´¨ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ•●&#98​29;❤




nw
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gives
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33704894



People who are seeking some truth and understanding Maynard.



nw
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Fail. lmao
Anonymous Coward
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02/12/2013 09:15 PM
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More then you can imagine...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17551129


You know also what is patently obvious: that some people, however innocently a few may be, are driving hoards of people away from the gospel, especially women.

It isn't "the offense of the cross" that's driving them away.

It isn't "the Way, the Truth, the Life" that's driving them away.

It is this effort to make Paul into the anti-Christ, to make him unravel everything Jesus said and did. Jesus treated women kindly, spoke to them in public, had compassion on them, healed them, raised them from the dead, accepted them as disciples, and even gave women the first opportunity to spread the Good News of his resurrection... to men who refused to believe them!

Jesus said that not even he "came to be served, but to serve", and as Paul said in Phil. 2:5-11, Jesus laid his divine privileges down and became the lowest of slaves, to the point of dying like a criminal. THAT, not what most men try to teach, is humility and love.

Either they have made Paul an anti-Christ, or they have done exactly what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:15-16--

"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I don't think you will understand, but here it is in a nutshell;

The vibrations of endgame, on a simultaneous designated planet...

This planets purpose was to never operate as one unit... Many different races, cultures, beliefs, makes for a huge variety of experiences...

That it has moved to blend the cultures, races, and beliefs into a melting pot, has signalled the conclusion of the experiential learning process on this planet...

Not the end of you, but the end of the bodies on this planet...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17551129


It disappoints me that you would presume I wouldn't understand. Disagreement is not necessarily failure to understand.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I see, the irish troll has been really busy, while I was away...

I only said - I don't think you would understand, due to the religious posture you have... Because the information I have would never come from this material...
Anonymous Coward
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Fail. lmao
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34172692


The only fail here that is blatantly obvious, is you...
Anonymous Coward
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Fail. lmao
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34172692


The only fail here that is blatantly obvious, is you...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17551129


norespect Fail. LOL
Keep2theCode (OP)

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I see, the irish troll has been really busy, while I was away...

I only said - I don't think you would understand, due to the religious posture you have... Because the information I have would never come from this material...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17551129


Yeah, he has a very different definition of "leaving" than we do. He's also in a misogynist thread where women are only saved by getting laid and having babies. Busy guy.

Re. the other issue, I do try to read up on all kinds of viewpoints so I can talk to them knowledgeably. Not saying I know them all in depth, but at least to have familiarity with various perspectives.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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02/12/2013 09:21 PM
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bible was written by misogynist males....so its not surprising how it is worded. What is surprising is that people still believe all that crap 2000 yrs later when it is no longer appropriate. Women are too smart now to put up with that shit...even if we do get acid splashed in our faces for thinking otherwise. Catch up OP...its 2013.
Anonymous Coward
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I see, the irish troll has been really busy, while I was away...

I only said - I don't think you would understand, due to the religious posture you have... Because the information I have would never come from this material...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17551129


Yeah, he has a very different definition of "leaving" than we do. He's also in a misogynist thread where women are only saved by getting laid and having babies. Busy guy.

Re. the other issue, I do try to read up on all kinds of viewpoints so I can talk to them knowledgeably. Not saying I know them all in depth, but at least to have familiarity with various perspectives.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I'm not in any other thread you feminazi. hitler LOL
Shamar

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Many criticisms of the Bible, especially Christianity, are based upon what I believe are gross misunderstandings. The worst part is that many of these are perpetuated by Christian teachers. But truth to tell, there has been bias and tampering since the apostles died, which should come as no surprise to anyone who has read their words.(1)

Many squabble over which version of ancient texts are best, or which translations. But anyone familiar with linguistics, translation, and textual transmission will tell you how ridiculous such squabbles are, and how inherently imprecise the whole exercise of understanding ancient writings truly is. There is always "something lost in translation", even when you have the originals in front of you, and even if no one disputed the content. And if this is true of the fairly technical side of things, it is much more true of the interpretation side.

With that background I'd like to focus on this one very controversial topic. Given that misogyny and patriarchy have been the overwhelming norm throughout history, bias in that direction is to be expected; it is female equality (let alone the much-rarer superiority) that is "counter-cultural" and in need of a fair trial. The Bible was not written in a vacuum, and just as teachings today may have many good points in them, the bias of the writers can still taint the teachings to some extent. We should be sure to note that God worked through and around people throughout history, rather than yanking people into line or micromanaging them. Thus some things were permitted that were never God's intent.(2)

I'm going to approach this post by listing common misconceptions and giving a concise response to each.(3)

---Adam ruled Eve because he was made first. If being first means having authority, then the animals all had authority over Adam. If being last means having authority, then Eve had authority over Adam. It is the fallacy of "special pleading" to make creation order a basis for authority only in one case.

---Adam ruled Eve because she was made from him. Adam was made from dust. Is dust therefore superior to Adam? Instead, being made of the very same "flesh and bone" as Adam made Eve his absolute equal. Adam focused on Eve's sameness, not her difference.

---Adam ruled Eve because she was his helper. The Hebrew word for "help" means "a strong ally" and is also used of God. There is no hint of inferiority on the part of the helper; in fact, it is the one being helped that lacks strength or ability. (Gen. 2:18)

---Adam ruled Eve because he called her "woman". The slave woman Hagar gave God a name. (Gen. 2:23, 16:13)

---Eve lusted after Adam's authority before she was tempted. There is not one hint in the entire Bible to back up this claim; it is a man-made myth. There is no scripture between the creation of Eve and her temptation, and neither she nor the serpent mentioned Adam during or after the temptation. No NT writer even hints at such a thing.

---Adam was unaware of the temptation or the source of the fruit. He was there with her and heard her voice as she was tempted. When she handed him the fruit he ate it even though he knew where it came from. If Eve had been tempting or tricking Adam, then it was she and not the serpent who was the real deceiver, making Adam the deceived. And there is not the slightest hint anywhere in the Bible of Eve using "feminine wiles" to seduce Adam. (Gen. 3:6, 17, 1 Tim. 2:13)

---Adam is shown to rule over Eve since God confronts him first. The confrontation is in the order of a typical philosophical argument, where statements are made leading to a central point and then traced back in reverse order. Scripture shows this to be man–woman–serpent–woman–man. So the order has nothing to do with rule but only with making a point. And the point was the serpent's curse and the accompanying prophecy of a Savior through the woman's seed alone. Eve is thus honored with truly being the "help" that Adam needed.

---Adam is charged with bringing sin into the world because he was the "federal head" of the human race. Scripture never gives Adam this title or anything like it, and does not say why sin is attributed to him alone. Yet consider these facts: both he and Eve ate the fruit and thus became mortal, but only Adam blamed the woman and God for his sin. While Eve is only said to have been deceived, Adam is said to have rebelled against God and dealt treacherously with Him. And if they base this "federal head" belief on the statement in Hebrews about Levi being credited with giving a tithe since he was "still in the body of his ancestor" Abraham when Abraham tithed to Melchizedek, they need to answer the question of why any of Abraham's descendants needed to tithe, or how Levi could literally have existed in Abraham when a person is not created till sperm meets egg. Also, if Adam was Eve's "federal head" before sin, then God would not have confronted her at all but only Adam. (Hosea 6:7, Job 31:33, Heb. 7:10)

---Adam's rule over Eve was made harsh after sin. There is no hint of Adam having authority over Eve before sin, and God never told Adam he must now rule better or more strongly. In addition, the statement was made to Eve, and it was not a command but a prediction of the consequences of her choice to follow Adam out of the garden. Only Adam was ordered out, and only Adam was told he would return to the dust from which he alone was taken, which God cursed on his account alone. Neither he nor Eve were ever cursed. (Gen. 3:19-24)

---Eve was cursed with labor pain and subservience to Adam. The verse about pain in childbirth is more accurately rendered "a snare has increased your sorrow and sighing; in sorrow you will bear children, and your turning will be to your husband, who will rule over you." Note that she was indeed snared or tricked, and also that it would be her husband, not anything he allegedly possessed, that she would desire or turn toward. And because of this she would be ruled over by him. This was in the future tense for both her desire and his rule, proving that neither previously existed. Even in the traditional rendering, the word "curse" is not used with Eve as it was with Adam and the serpent; God never told Eve "Because you have done this…". And how could God increase her labor pains if she had not yet given birth? Even if she had, was birth supposed to have pain before sin? (Gen. 3:16)

---Adam was given rule over Eve because she was deceived. This makes no sense whatsoever. Adam sinned deliberately and without excuse, and showed no concern or responsibility for Eve while she was being tempted. If Eve had been made by God with a deceivable nature, how could she have been "a suitable helper" for Adam? And if all women are to be labeled as deceivable, then all men are to be labeled as poor leaders and rebels against God who always pass blame. To think God rewarded Adam for his rebellion and inaction, and cursed Eve for being tricked, is to turn God into Satan. And again, God never granted this rule to Adam; it was a prediction to Eve concerning the choice she would make. We must also not forget that the Savior was promised through her seed alone. Would God send His Son through the inherently deceivable? Why did He have to be born of a virgin?

---God never used women as leaders unless there were no men available. None of the references to women in leadership are ever said to be God's last resort or evidence of a divine curse or punishment. The lone verse that allegedly says so is very badly translated; even if it weren't, one verse is hardly enough to overturn the unchanging basics of the faith such as the Golden Rule and "not so among you". (Ex. 15:20, Judges 4:4-5:12, 2 Kings 22:14, 2 Chronicles 34:22, Isaiah 3:12)

---God never condemned patriarchy. He also never condemned polygamy, slavery, rape, pedophilia, and a lot of other things. He never intended for Israel to have a human king but gave them one because they nagged him. We see throughout scripture God's pattern of making concessions, of working through and around humanity instead of immediately condemning every sin or weakness. Whenever God did intervene, we observe that He chose the young over the old, the weak over the strong, and the small and insignificant over the great and powerful. We also see His compassion and mercy, His offer to "come and reason". So His silence is not an indicator of approval but of patience and mercy. (1 Sam. 6:6-9)

---Jesus was male, and all his inner group of disciples were male. Jesus, as well as the disciples, were also all Jews, all speaking Aramaic. Why aren't these other qualities cited as proof that Christian leaders must be Jewish and speak Aramaic? And why was only Judas ever replaced among the Twelve? Why isn't a group of twelve required in every church? There is also proof that the Twelve were to be mapped to the twelve tribes of Israel, not to any sort of church structure. (Rev. 21:12-14)

---Jesus never condemned male supremacy. As with the claim about patriarchy, there were many other things Jesus never spoke out against, not even the Roman government. He also did not rebuke Mary for sitting at His feet to learn, and if male supremacists are consistent, they have to take that to mean Jesus approves of female theology students. And to be under a rabbi like that meant the student was expected to eventually take the place of a rabbi as well, so that means Jesus approves of women as pastors. Either arguments from silence are legitimate across the board, or they are not. (Luke 10:39)

---None of the Bible was written by a woman. Who is the author of Hebrews? Some historians believe there is evidence of "a conspiracy of silence" because the author was a woman, most likely Priscilla. Who wrote Esther? Ruth? We should also note that none of the Bible was written by a Gentile or a sea captain or a court jester. How many women were taught to write? How many should we expect from a patriarchal society? Does God ever say why He does things like commending the bravery of a prostitute (or possibly, an inn keeper, which in patriarchal thinking is a greater sin than prostitution since she ran a business without male oversight!) and allowing the Savior to be born of her line? So again we must ask why something like this is taken as tacit approval of male supremacy by God. (Joshua 6:25, Mt. 1:5)

---The "plain reading" of scripture says women can't teach men. That same "plain reading" also says that we should pluck out our eye if it causes us to sin, that we should take wine for our stomach problems, that we should wash each other's feet, that we should greet each other with a holy kiss, that our only debt should be love, and that "the first will be last and the last will be first". And if anyone tries to cry "context" in defense of their "plain reading" they have defeated their own argument. More questions for "plain reading" and consistency: Why does a woman need a head covering to signify male rule if she can only pray and prophecy in private or among other women? Where does God ever tell godly women they are in sin if they teach truth?

---Males must guard females from error and deception. The Holy Spirit cannot do the job? Who is guarding all those men teaching error? How many women compared to men have started false religions? How many women have been popes or imams? How many men have fallen for tricksters and embezzlers? And where is the scripture that states men must guard women from deception? Why are women allowed to teach children, who are the most easily deceived?

---Men and women are equal in being but have complementary "roles" where the man leads and the woman follows. If two people are equal in being or essence, there cannot be permanent hierarchy between them on the basis of essential qualities of being. That is, if someone is held to a permanent subservient role, based upon their flesh in some way, then that person is inferior by definition. Temporary hierarchies, such as employer/employee or parent/child, do not violate this rule because the employee can change jobs and the child can grow up. But slavery is defined as "submission to a dominating influence; the state of a person who is a chattel of another" (Webster's). A slave can be freed but is at the mercy of the owner. Though the slave is acknowledged to be as fully human as the owner, the slave is nonetheless held to be inferior in being. A "role" is, by definition, a part to play or a function to perform. The latter is held by male supremacism as meaning a woman's role is to submit permanently to a man for no other reason than the flesh (the physical). Yet because it is based upon a permanent and intrinsic quality, it defines the woman as inferior to the man. It is held that this leader/follower relationship is "complementary" between equals, but this amounts to defining equal as unequal, since the woman can never outrank the man in return. Truly equal complementation would be between friends or co-workers who each have different skills or jobs, or like the cooperation between the left and right hands.

---The man is the head of the family. Scripture never says this; it only says the husband is the head of his wife. But "head" in Greek never meant ruler or boss; the head/body metaphor was an expression of unity. If it meant boss, then the Bible would be ordering wives to "serve two masters", especially since male supremacism insists that a wife is to obey her husband "as to the Lord".

---No woman is ever addressed in scripture as a pastor. No man is ever addressed in scripture as a pastor. No NT letter is ever addressed to an individual having a title— except 2 John, which is addressed to a woman he calls "the chosen master" (lit. Greek). Many are called "apostles" (lit. "sent out"), including Junia, and many are called "servants" or "ministers" (all from the Greek word diaconos), including Phoebe. And "pastor", mentioned only once in the entire NT, is a spiritual gift, not an office or title. (Rom. 16:1, 7, Eph. 4:11)

---An elder must be a man. By the method used to determine this, then an elder must also be married, have well-behaved children, and do a good job of protecting the home. This would disqualify Paul, Timothy, and many others. Paul's list of qualities are exactly that: qualities of character, not matters of the flesh. And that same word for provide and protect in 1 Tim. 3:4, proistemi, is used of Phoebe. By this same method, the Great Commission would only be for men since it involves preaching the gospel, teaching, and baptizing. (Mt. 28:19-20, Rom. 16:2, 1 Tim. 3)

---A husband plays the role of Father to his wife's role of Son.That is blasphemy and idolatry, not to mention symbolic pedophilia. No believer is ever told to play God to another believer. The ONE passage used to teach this blasphemy (on the man's part) and idolatry (on the woman's part) is Eph. 5:22, but there is no verb there, because it goes with verse 21, not verse 23. In Greek it reads like a list starting in vs. 19, describing the "filled with the Spirit" in vs. 18: speaking, singing, thanking, and supporting. All believers are to defer (Paul always uses other words when discussing submission to authority) to one another; there are no exceptions. The man as "head" to the wife is her source, and she is his support, just as the head feeds the body and the body supports the head. In spite of the Roman law that made her attached to her father for life (instead of her husband)*, Paul tells Christian wives to be loyal to their "own" husbands. To say this as a matter of obedience would make no sense in a society where this was already presumed and encoded in law, and to treat any human as The Lord would be idolatrous. So Paul is not making "lording over" a new definition of submission.
(* The law was "marriage without hand", designed to give abused wives a way out of a bad marriage. She remained the property of her father, who at any time could give her to another man. So Paul is saying something quite radically opposed to Roman law.)

---Christian Equality is a slippery slope to homosexuality. Then male supremacism is a slippery slope to wife abuse, and clergy supremacy is a slippery slope to the cults. The "slippery slope" argument was raised to justify slavery in the pre-Civil War south, fearing the breakdown of society should slaves be freed and treated as equals. And historically (even today), homosexuality has been rampant in very patriarchal societies.

---Christian Equality bows to culture. The overwhelming cultural and religious paradigm has been that of male supremacism, so it is patriarchy which bows to culture. That modern Western society has been a rare exception to the cultural tradition does not make Christianity's acceptance of equality a case of bowing to culture, any more than the abolition of slavery was also bowing to culture.

---Men cannot give birth but they don't complain about it, so women should not complain about what they cannot do either. This is the "equivocation" fallacy, since it confuses ability with permission. Neither side believes women lack the ability to preach, teach, or lead. The absurdity of this argument is clear when we substitute the proper meanings for ‘can': "Men lack the ability to give birth, so women should not complain about lack of permission to hold authority."

---Not all men can have ecclesiastical authority, so they too must submit gladly to it. But men are not barred from such positions because they are men, but because they lack gifting or credentials. Yet women are barred from those positions solely because they are women, an intrinsic quality and thus a matter of ‘being' or ‘essence' rather than an ability or a role to play; women's gifting or ability is not even considered. And of course it is not all men who are denied authoritative positions, while it is all women who are denied. And in the home, all men are designated leaders and authorities over their wives, while no women are ever designated leaders and authorities over their husbands.

-------------------------------------------------------------​----
(1) [link to bible.cc]
see also these articles about tampering with the text:
[link to www.fether.net]
[link to www.fether.net]
[link to powerscourt.blogspot.com]
[link to www.touchstonemag.com]

(2) [link to bible.cc]

(3) [link to www.fether.net]

Articles about women:
[link to www.fether.net]
[link to www.fether.net]

The Bible, Inspiration, and Inerrancy series:
[link to www.fether.net]
[link to www.fether.net]
[link to www.fether.net]

Translation and Interpretation series:
[link to www.fether.net]
[link to www.fether.net]

Context and Exegesis:
[link to www.fether.net]
[link to www.fether.net]
[link to www.fether.net]

The Bible Canon:
[link to www.fether.net]
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


um.......... me thinks you have forgotten a few women....


Deborah ranks among the most famous women of the Hebrew Bible, known to Christians as the Old Testament. Not only known for her wisdom, Deborah was also known for her courage. She is the only woman of the Hebrew Bible who gained renown on her own merit, not because of her relationship to a man.

[link to ancienthistory.about.com]

she is only one...........

OP have you done a serious study of the book of Estre? You may want to rethink your position here.
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
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02/12/2013 09:27 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
bible was written by misogynist males....so its not surprising how it is worded. What is surprising is that people still believe all that crap 2000 yrs later when it is no longer appropriate. Women are too smart now to put up with that shit...even if we do get acid splashed in our faces for thinking otherwise. Catch up OP...its 2013.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13250526


Yet in spite of it being 2013 and all, people still insult other people just for disagreeing. Go figure.

Anyway, as I've said several times, my purpose in this thread was to show how people twist and misinterpret the Bible. God isn't to blame for "all that crap".
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34172692
Ireland
02/12/2013 09:28 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
bible was written by misogynist males....so its not surprising how it is worded. What is surprising is that people still believe all that crap 2000 yrs later when it is no longer appropriate. Women are too smart now to put up with that shit...even if we do get acid splashed in our faces for thinking otherwise. Catch up OP...its 2013.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13250526


Yet in spite of it being 2013 and all, people still insult other people just for disagreeing. Go figure.

Anyway, as I've said several times, my purpose in this thread was to show how people twist and misinterpret the Bible. God isn't to blame for "all that crap".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


potkettledrama
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
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02/12/2013 09:29 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
um.......... me thinks you have forgotten a few women....


Deborah ranks among the most famous women of the Hebrew Bible, known to Christians as the Old Testament. Not only known for her wisdom, Deborah was also known for her courage. She is the only woman of the Hebrew Bible who gained renown on her own merit, not because of her relationship to a man.

[link to ancienthistory.about.com]

she is only one...........

OP have you done a serious study of the book of Estre? You may want to rethink your position here.
 Quoting: Shamar



How have I forgotten anyone, when I never set out to list them all?

And what is it exactly that I'm supposed to rethink?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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02/12/2013 09:31 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
Bad twistings of the word. Looks like you are struggling with pride and you don't want to accept God's natural order. Man rules.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34172692


Male Rule sure as fuck, has not been kind to this planet. Clean up your mess guys, because us Women are tired of being your GD maids!
 Quoting: ElusivePisces 11156436


get in the kitchen and make some sammiches woman.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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02/12/2013 09:32 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
I'm not in any other thread you feminazi. hitler LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34172692

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Get a life, troll. Start a thread or something. Go out and play. Whatever.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Life and Love
Live life fully!

User ID: 26735250
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02/12/2013 09:32 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
um.......... me thinks you have forgotten a few women....


Deborah ranks among the most famous women of the Hebrew Bible, known to Christians as the Old Testament. Not only known for her wisdom, Deborah was also known for her courage. She is the only woman of the Hebrew Bible who gained renown on her own merit, not because of her relationship to a man.

[link to ancienthistory.about.com]

she is only one...........

OP have you done a serious study of the book of Estre? You may want to rethink your position here.
 Quoting: Shamar



How have I forgotten anyone, when I never set out to list them all?

And what is it exactly that I'm supposed to rethink?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


OP, you're doing fine. Shamar didn't see the word "misconceptions" in your original post.
We become like that to which we are devoted. Choose wisely.
Anonymous Coward
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Ireland
02/12/2013 09:33 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
I'm not in any other thread you feminazi. hitler LOL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34172692

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Get a life, troll. Start a thread or something. Go out and play. Whatever.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


I didn't make that thread troll. You certainly cry a lot, don't you. tissueviolin
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
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02/12/2013 09:33 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
um.......... me thinks you have forgotten a few women....


Deborah ranks among the most famous women of the Hebrew Bible, known to Christians as the Old Testament. Not only known for her wisdom, Deborah was also known for her courage. She is the only woman of the Hebrew Bible who gained renown on her own merit, not because of her relationship to a man.

[link to ancienthistory.about.com]

she is only one...........

OP have you done a serious study of the book of Estre? You may want to rethink your position here.
 Quoting: Shamar



How have I forgotten anyone, when I never set out to list them all?

And what is it exactly that I'm supposed to rethink?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


OP, you're doing fine. Shamar didn't see the word "misconceptions" in your original post.
 Quoting: Life and Love


I hope you're right! Thanks. :-)
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
02/12/2013 09:34 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
I didn't make that thread troll. You certainly cry a lot, don't you. tissueviolin
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34172692


I didn't say you did, Einstein. I said you were in it.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34172692
Ireland
02/12/2013 09:36 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
OP is a misandrist.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551129
Canada
02/12/2013 09:36 PM
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Re: What the Bible Really Says about Women
bible was written by misogynist males....so its not surprising how it is worded. What is surprising is that people still believe all that crap 2000 yrs later when it is no longer appropriate. Women are too smart now to put up with that shit...even if we do get acid splashed in our faces for thinking otherwise. Catch up OP...its 2013.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13250526


Yet in spite of it being 2013 and all, people still insult other people just for disagreeing. Go figure.

Anyway, as I've said several times, my purpose in this thread was to show how people twist and misinterpret the Bible. God isn't to blame for "all that crap".
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


potkettledrama
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34172692


Wow - your first reply on this thread was posted at 11:34 am... That is about 10 hours ago, you have been non stop, and still at it...

What kind of life do you have ???

basement dweller comes to mind

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