What the Bible Really Says about Women

And my room is in the attic moran. Fail.

I think right and wrong rather. That is eating from the tree of duality and duality comes from judgment. So what was the sin? Judgment? Did they raise their energy up to the pineal gland and see the truth of their prison?

Just Fuck them!

Look it up.

the bible is completely absurd, why you choose yo blindly follow it never ceases to amaze me.

this is a good read: [link to skepticsannotatedbible.com]

and for lolz: [link to dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.co.nz]

No, your opinion is.

[link to www.reasons.org]

Why do you so blindly accept the lies of Satan and this evil World?

Personal experience cannot be denied.

Hi Op,

I appreciated the attempt to answer some of the different theological interpretations on this subject. I remember hearing James Dobson on the radio express a more egalitarian view and I wanted to believe in it but I then read these verses that made me reconsider changing my position.

1Pe 3:5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands,
1Pe 3:6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.

The greek work for obey, hupakouo, in conjunction with the word lord, kurios, it made a strong case for me to keep my "traditional" view. It defines the "submitting" in the previous verse and infers hierarchy.

What is your take on these passages above?

Thanks for answering.

Hi AC,

I gave a link earlier to an article I wrote about that, but here it is again: [link to www.fether.net]

The Greek grammar, in context, indicates that Peter is addressing the problem of Christian women married to non-Christian men. In that culture, a man could murder his wife for any or no reason, especially if she did not worship his gods. So the Christian woman, free in Christ though she was, had a difficult task: how to witness to the Gospel without losing her life at her own husband's hands.

So Peter, like Paul, advises emphasis on non-verbal witnessing. She was to be exemplary and above reproach, wise and fearless like Sarah-- who only called Abraham 'lord' when she laughed at the thought of him impregnating her in his old age! That is, it was not Sarah's regular habit; in fact, at one point she ordered him to send away "the slave woman and her son", and God Himself told Abraham to obey her!

A marriage where both are Christian hardly requires a wordless witness from the wife, so this is not a Christian marriage manual but a survival manual. I urge you to read at the link for more detail about who exactly is to "fear" as well. It makes no sense for Peter to tell the wife to fear her 'lord' and then tell her not to fear but to be like Sarah. And if I'm wrong, then Peter was telling Christian wives to commit idolatry.

God bless.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 02/13/2013 07:38 AM

Thanks for the thread OP. I found it to be an interesting and thought provoking read, despite not being a religious follower. Despite your good explanations of the listed verses in the OP, not everyone is capable of reading greek or has the desire to do the deep research to find truth. They want the easy face value text because it's brainless and requires no real thought. And because of that I believe the christian religion is doing a good job destroying itself. Good riddance.

As for Ireland, he doesn't even realize how much of a brain dead idiot he's making himself out to be. Keep up the good work, Ireland. Just keep showing your poor character. It's painfully obvious no one here sees you as anything other than a troll.

You can call me all the names you want, it doesn't bother me one bit. I have showed on this thread how the OP contradicts the word of God on these matters, what is God's natural order, we can see that too from the book of Genesis. God was only going to make a male at the start but since Adam was lonely, he made him a helper and companion. Also, I have showed that the word of God has nothing to do with the liberal propaganda of equality since the bible is based not on equality but favor and how the OP is a victim of pride and cannot accept the truth and her place as a woman under man and how she is just twisting the word of God to suit her proud, rebellious feminist agenda. The word of God is clear, the woman will want to rule but man will rule over her. And she was cursed with the pain of birth for her disobedience and for starting this whole mess.

The word of God rebuke you!

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Genesis 3:16

Thank you.

Another problem is "credentials"; if someone isn't a popular author or teacher or seminary professor, people think they can't possibly know anything. Same thing with "tradition"; they use the "appeal to popularity" fallacy to paint anyone who disagrees with "all those experts" an egotist and rebel. Research on any topic really is something the majority either won't or can't do, yet so many of them feel confident that they know better than the researchers. One would think that a place like GLP would be more open to conspiracy theories in religion.

Agree also that the Christian religion, as opposed to the Christian faith, is destroying itself. Jesus even asked rhetorically whether he'd "find the faith on the earth" when he returns. The errors, both deliberate and misguided, are doing incalculable harm and giving rise to all the hate and rejection of the gospel we see here. I can't blame them for their reactions, and am ashamed of what so many Christians say and do. All I can do is try to examine the Bible myself and report what I see, in a (likely vain) effort to show that it is the fault of people, not God. But trying to clear a name that has been smeared and trashed for so long is like trying to run under water.

Yeah, the troll infestation... serving a purpose of some kind I suppose.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 02/13/2013 08:44 AM

:greenwaterheart:

men wrote that,not GOD.

It says so right here.

'How can you say, We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD, when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? Jeremiah 8:8

… Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Why should we only listen to the man made verses pertaining to what women should do, and not the other ones that contridict them? Something is wrong here.

Listen to your heart as your guide,and Wisdom will lead you to the truth. The reason it contridicts, is because the bible was mostly written by the lying pen of the scribes who had good reason to control the masses....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The contradictions are exactly what this thread is about: are they inherent in the text, or are they badly misinterpreted and have been for centuries? People don't want to believe that bias can be sustained by that many people for that span of time, but this board is proof enough that this is an all-too-common occurrence. And as I discuss at one of the end links in the OP, the OT Hebrew original was lost and we have relied upon those scribes and rabbis to produce their Masoretic text. Talk about foxes guarding the hen house!

Yet in spite of that, research continues to uncover many of these things. And by consulting scholars from various biases we can discover the truth. Yet there is one bias that crosses all lines of denomination and sect: misogyny. I have quotes at my blog from "church fathers" that would make you gag. Yet here again, more scholars are exposing such treachery. But we don't hear about them because they're deemed heretics from the start.

So what I hope to accomplish here is to present enough information to at least make a case for most of the criticisms of the Bible as human error or treachery, rather than stripping the whole Bible of divine inspiration.

And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Matt 8:20

Christ was free,and did not follow others. He could see they were the blind leading the blind.

I have been called a Heretic.
So was Christ.


: a dissenter from established religious dogma; especially : a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who disavows a revealed truth
2: one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine :

Lisa Gerrard.

Now We are Free

Healing to me
And freely to you from Sol Omnipotens
Yellow
Wings of Joy
Warmth of Day,
Sun of Dawn
O Sun of Yellow,

The Son of Righteousness,
Son of Morning Light,
Shine high and below!
Shine Aeonion!
Shine now, O Great I AM!
(Aaahh)
Shine now, O He Who Was!
Shine now, O Great to Come!
Now we are Free!

(Fast tempo, 4 times)
One the One now whom he was to be!
And the One by whom we now do all see

Healing to me;
Healing to you now freely from Sol:
Yellow
Yellow
For all the world too
Yellow
Live on
Rays below,
Come now,
Wings of Joy
Warmth of Day, Sun of Dawn;
The Sun of
Yellow,
Yellow,
Flame by Day
From Our Lord
Jesus,
Jesus,
True Sun of Liberty
Healing you free.

Gather the sacred stones;)

:gatherstones:

They give to mutch attention to the name and not what he tried to teach, thats why it all reeks like tyrants speaking
And people try to flee from it
Make up your own parables, he would be proud

Last Edited by Used Rubber on 02/13/2013 10:16 AM

Yes, letter vs. spirit. Of course this doesn't mean the letters don't matter, but that their purpose is to convey some idea or teaching.

One thing many don't realize is that when Jesus or the NT writers quoted the OT, they were quoting the LXX (Septuagint), a Greek translation. Not even the Israelites were using the Hebrew text at that time, yet not even Jesus had a problem with that. I don't recall the exact document, but I read somewhere that they really did consider the accuracy of translating a thought rather than slavish worship of the letter.

Yet at the same time, if it is the letter which is being used to beat people over the head, then it is the letter I must use in order to stop the beating. I try to fight them with their own weapons, on their own turf, and if successful I will have taken the weapon out of their hands. That's why I'm approaching this on a very narrow basis; the people I'm opposing believe, as I do, that the Bible is what God wanted preserved, for whatever purpose. So I restrict my efforts to the Bible text and the normal rules of grammar, language, context, and logic.

A wise person said, "Start with Jesus"; it means that whatever we think we know, it must all stem consistently from the True Vine. So after studying the text as I explained, I challenge them to consider what Jesus meant when he said "Not so among you; whoever wants to be the greatest must be the least, and whoever wants to be served at the table must become the waiter". He washed the feet of his own students, and died a criminal's death to demonstrate the height and depth of his love for all people. His kingdom is not one of rank and privilege but mutuality and equality.

So whatever specific proof-text may appear on the surface to contradict this central tenet of our faith, it must be misinterpreted.

General note:

As you all know, sometimes people are blocked out from even viewing here, for months at a time. If I should stop responding, rest assured it's only because I cannot access the site.

So what is the deal about women anyway?

Um... have you read the OP?

Yes im terribly confused now

There was no fear of losing her life for been a Christian, the Roman Empire was tolerant to all religions (except for certain emperors).

Especially in the early church:
Many Christian women were married to pagan men; these women had a tremendous capillary effect on pagan society because they raised their children in the faith and because often their husbands converted. Consider the immense influence that St. Monica had on her husband and sons, especially Augustine. Monica’s story was lived by thousands of women in many different times and places for five centuries

And in addition we have 1 Corinthians 7: 13-15 which says when a Christian wife can divorce her pagan husband.

"And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.
For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."

7:12 says the same for the unbelieving wife.

Last Edited by Ostria1 on 02/13/2013 11:15 AM

Can you be more specific? There's a lot of material in the OP so can you narrow down your question?

From [link to en.wikipedia.org] --

Peter was addressing a specific problem, not to a universal problem; not all cultures were the same. Please see my comments on 1 Corinthians here: [link to bible.fether.net]

Well, I dont think so. The specific problem was a question they probably asked him for clarification, if a man could "touch" a woman or not. (Because Paul didnt, as he says a lot of times "I dont expect you to be like me")
Then he goes on telling them what they should do as Christians and about marriage, and this applied to all, everywhere.

BTW i dont know if you have read this study.. it is interesting and has a lot of sources.
[link to www.google.gr]

I'm sure Peter's letters, like Paul's, were in response to questions sent to them. But this one has nothing about a man "touching" a woman. As I explain in my linked article, he was specifically addressing the matter of Christian women married to non-Christian men. You can't apply that to all cultures of that time, let alone all cultures of all time. Context is everything.

The book "Beyond Sex Roles" by Gilbert Bilezikian is an excellent resource.

[link to www.amazon.com]

Yes, thanks for mentioning it. Epp is another good author, also Groothuis, Giles, and Christians For Biblical Equality at [link to www.cbeinternational.org] .