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Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

 
Zuzu
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User ID: 24583969
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02/13/2013 03:37 AM
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Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I really don't know much about this subject. Is this a genuine description of these people of just the M.S.M. demonizing them?

From Kfor TV out of Oklahoma:

"Law enforcement is paying special attention to a re-surging group of individual extremists; sovereign citizens.

They are anti-government Americans who believe the U.S. government has no authority".


snip

"The world-wide web has been a handy tool in sovereign circles, spreading tactics of their particular flavor of lawlessness.

Sovereign citizens usually represent themselves in court, filing nonsensical paperwork on their own behalf.

Many sovereigns document their struggles to be taken seriously, then post them online.

They rarely have much success."


snip

“What I understand people in some of these cases are doing is making the argument that the original constitutional order left people free from the authority of the federal government and maybe from laws at the state level as well,” Blitz said. “So (they say) ‘You can’t apply these laws to me.’ Not surprisingly, the judges have said, ‘Yes we can.’”

Full article with video:

[link to kfor.com]

I just want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. You've all given me a bit of a crash education on this subject and directed me to some great sources for learning even more. It's bed time for me but I'm looking forward to reading any new post when I get up.
Once again, thank you!


Last Edited by Zuzu on 02/13/2013 10:37 AM
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 03:45 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Sovereigns are just people trying
to survive outside the NWO Matrix.

it is not they who seek a confrontation
it is the Matrix who seeks them to
put their shackles back on.

Living in the Matrix is nothing
but slavery and mind programming
to hide those shackles.

The best slaves are the ones
who know not they are slaves.
Zuzu (OP)

User ID: 24583969
United States
02/13/2013 04:01 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Sovereigns are just people trying
to survive outside the NWO Matrix.

it is not they who seek a confrontation
it is the Matrix who seeks them to
put their shackles back on.

Living in the Matrix is nothing
but slavery and mind programming
to hide those shackles.

The best slaves are the ones
who know not they are slaves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34303862


You make a good point. Although I tend to think that many people know that those shackles are there but find it easier to just ignore them. Truly I can understand the compulsion to live a life of blind bliss as opposed to facing the truth of a life out of their control. After all, being blind to and embracing our own enslavement is what we’ve been trained to do since birth.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:08 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
You make a good point. Although I tend to think that many people know that those shackles are there but find it easier to just ignore them.
 Quoting: Zuzu


when the freebies and the perks run out

then we have Revolution

this is why we are $16 Trillion in debt.
TPTB are buying their way to stay in
power.

keep the slaves with phones, gadgets,
drugs, religion, porn and TV and see
how far they can ride that pony before
somebody yells:

the Emperor has no clothes
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19980561
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02/13/2013 04:13 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Sovereigns are just people trying
to survive outside the NWO Matrix.

it is not they who seek a confrontation
it is the Matrix who seeks them to
put their shackles back on.


Living in the Matrix is nothing
but slavery and mind programming
to hide those shackles.

The best slaves are the ones
who know not they are slaves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34303862


That's the best way to describe it.

If you study the Fed Reserve & 'maritime law' you'll get it.
For example: Ever wonder why your Credit cards, Driver license, or ANY of your documents, your name is in upper cases?
like: JOHN SMITH. Not: John Smith. Look it up...it'll blow your mind.

I caution you though, you'll be going down a rabbit hole.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34281023
Australia
02/13/2013 04:17 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
start by looking at strawman law...and go from there OP-heres a silly but simple vid:



then look at maritime law etc.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:19 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
start by looking at strawman law...and go from there OP-heres a silly but simple vid:



then look at maritime law etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34281023


Maratime law just blows me away. Who sit's around & thinks this stuff up?
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:19 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
and my understanding is the few that have tried the sovreign citizen stance in court do not understand the law or correct syntax and usually purger themselves.
Zuzu (OP)

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02/13/2013 04:20 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Sovereigns are just people trying
to survive outside the NWO Matrix.

it is not they who seek a confrontation
it is the Matrix who seeks them to
put their shackles back on.


Living in the Matrix is nothing
but slavery and mind programming
to hide those shackles.

The best slaves are the ones
who know not they are slaves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34303862


That's the best way to describe it.

If you study the Fed Reserve & 'maritime law' you'll get it.
For example: Ever wonder why your Credit cards, Driver license, or ANY of your documents, your name is in upper cases?
like: JOHN SMITH. Not: John Smith. Look it up...it'll blow your mind.

I caution you though, you'll be going down a rabbit hole.
 Quoting: Tanarus


Ok, you have piqued my interest. Down the rabbit hole I go ..hf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34281023
Australia
02/13/2013 04:22 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
start by looking at strawman law...and go from there OP-heres a silly but simple vid:



then look at maritime law etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34281023


Maratime law just blows me away. Who sit's around & thinks this stuff up?
 Quoting: Tanarus


lol ummmmmm ask a post master.
i dont care what people think of him, Ive watched a lot of Johnathon Wynne Millers stuff on correct Parse Syntax-he gives an excellent explanation of the postal ties.
Zuzu (OP)

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02/13/2013 04:26 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
start by looking at strawman law...and go from there OP-heres a silly but simple vid:



then look at maritime law etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34281023


The video might have been a little silly but very interesting, a bit scary really.

Looks like I have a lot to learn.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34281023
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02/13/2013 04:29 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Sovereigns are just people trying
to survive outside the NWO Matrix.

it is not they who seek a confrontation
it is the Matrix who seeks them to
put their shackles back on.


Living in the Matrix is nothing
but slavery and mind programming
to hide those shackles.

The best slaves are the ones
who know not they are slaves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34303862


That's the best way to describe it.

If you study the Fed Reserve & 'maritime law' you'll get it.
For example: Ever wonder why your Credit cards, Driver license, or ANY of your documents, your name is in upper cases?
like: JOHN SMITH. Not: John Smith. Look it up...it'll blow your mind.

I caution you though, you'll be going down a rabbit hole.
 Quoting: Tanarus


Ok, you have piqued my interest. Down the rabbit hole I go ..hf
 Quoting: Zuzu


Davis wynne miller sorry-
gamn.
i was just reading jonathon livingstone seagull and wrote that. lmao
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:30 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
3rd time lucky--*david.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:31 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The video might have been a little silly but very interesting, a bit scary really.

Looks like I have a lot to learn.
 Quoting: Zuzu


it's all true.

Organic Act of 1871
is where we lost our Republic
and our Constitution.

The last soldiers to fight for
true freedom and the Constitution
were the Confederacy in 1865.

In 1871, the US became a CORPORATION
and every citizen became an asset
of the US CORPORATION.

But every single speaker who tours
and speaks on this subject winds up
dead.
Zuzu (OP)

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02/13/2013 04:34 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Wow gasp

"Does The Jones Act Put Us Under Maritime Law By Our Birth Certificate? Why Is Your Name Spelled In All Capital Letters"

"Maritime admiralty law considers you a maritime admiralty product, simply because you were birthed out of your mother's water. A ship sits in its birth until the captain gives a certificate of manifest to the port authorities.

The reason you are required to have a Birth Certificate is because at the time of your birth there is an exchange of money to cover hospital costs. The dock signs your birth certificate simply because that is what the ship is tied to, you will need a dock to sign your birth certificate."


[link to reality-bytes.hubpages.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:36 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The dock signs your birth certificate simply because that is
what the ship is tied to, you will need a dock to sign your
birth certificate.
 Quoting: Zuzu


now you know why Obama doesn't have one
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:42 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
It's some crazy stuff.
I'd like to have been in the room observing when they were cooking this stuff up...
Zuzu (OP)

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02/13/2013 04:49 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Thank you so much for the pin!

I really do appreciate all of the information from each of you. I will be reading up on all of your suggestions and hopefully be just a bit more aware of the world around me.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:50 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The Constitution is a contract with the people and the federal government. If the federal government breaks the contract, then the contract is void. It is as simple as that.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:53 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The Constitution is a contract with the people and the federal government. If the federal government breaks the contract, then the contract is void. It is as simple as that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24760791


that contract has to be a contract in the first place-many are not.
ta da.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 04:56 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The Constitution is a contract with the people and the federal government. If the federal government breaks the contract, then the contract is void. It is as simple as that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24760791


that contract has to be a contract in the first place-many are not.
ta da.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34281023


True, technically nobody alive today agreed to the Constitution. It can be considered legally meaningless and the federal government has no authority to exist.

But they've been violating the black letter law of the Constitution for over 150 years. The federal government in its current state is entirely unlawful and has no lawful or legal authority, beyond force.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 05:04 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
This is just more of the same misdirection and obfuscation tptb use to reign in the sheep. I have personally seen judges get quiet when you make a reservation of your rights before the court. You have a 2 second window to SHOW COMPETENCE before a judge tries you under maritime admiralty law. They will ALWAYS use the idiots that screw up in court to scare the rest of you into compliance.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 05:04 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Just to add, I talked to a UK Judge (JP) and he confirmed that indeed, the Police, Courts, Government, Political Parties and even the UK are CORPORATIONS, and that your legal PERSON is contracting when you consent.

But beware, he admitted to me that they (judges) use tricks to make that contract; even answering to your full name and just turning up at court can act as that consent. One mistake and you can be held in 'contempt of court' which carries 60-day max penalty. He did say he would not give that penalty unless there were exceptional circumstances.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 05:19 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The Constitution is a contract with the people and the federal government. If the federal government breaks the contract, then the contract is void. It is as simple as that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24760791


that contract has to be a contract in the first place-many are not.
ta da.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34281023


True, technically nobody alive today agreed to the Constitution. It can be considered legally meaningless and the federal government has no authority to exist.

But they've been violating the black letter law of the Constitution for over 150 years. The federal government in its current state is entirely unlawful and has no lawful or legal authority, beyond force.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24760791

no i meant a contract is obselete if its not written correctly.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 05:23 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Sovereign Beings is a term the Ramtha group used in the last 80's ...

So don't know anything about ths term Sovereign citizens

Sounds like they are being labeled... a bad SPECAIL INTEREST GROUP that could cause issues with the govt?

WOW...

Are these people violent ??? or more Hippy Meditation groupies?
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 05:25 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Agreed to the Constitution.. you soumd like an Obama shrill...

We live in the USA..... you could also say TECHNICALLY I did not AGREE to the IRS or the Fed Reserve but I live here and when in ROME do as the Romens.

Zuzu (OP)

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02/13/2013 05:25 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
A lot of this seems to boil down to people giving up their rites in exchange for an illusion of freedom but what choice do we really have?

Without these “contract” it is nearly impossible to find work. If you can find work then you are faced with not legally being able drive to that job. (drivers license and vehicle registration being a contract of sorts) How do you then feed your family. Sure some people have the resources to grow and farm their own food but most do not. In truth from what I’ve read here if you have the land to farm it is not actually your property anyway. The government can seize it from you at will.

This country has evolved into a place where it is nearly impossible to survive if you refuse to play TBTB’s games.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 05:27 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Are these people violent ??? or more Hippy Meditation groupies?
 Quoting: NorthWestForrest


Adam and Eve were Sovereign
after being kicked out of the garden.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 05:30 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Without these “contract” it is nearly impossible to find work. If you can find work then you are faced with not legally being able drive to that job. (drivers license and vehicle registration being a contract of sorts) How do you then feed your family. Sure some people have the resources to grow and farm their own food but most do not. In truth from what I’ve read here if you have the land to farm it is not actually your property anyway. The government can seize it from you at will.

This country has evolved into a place where it is nearly impossible to survive if you refuse to play TBTB’s games.
 Quoting: Zuzu


clappa

you pretty much nailed it.

this is why people are trying
to escape the Matrix.
They are refusing to play
TPTB's games.

it's a perpetual cycle of slavery
from birth to death
and then you pass it on
to your kids

unless YOU break the chain
as a Sovereign
J
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02/13/2013 05:39 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
"and my understanding is the few that have tried the sovreign citizen stance in court do not understand the law or correct syntax and usually purger themselves."

Its my understanding that the 'sovereign citizen' argument is useless idiocy based on a series of fallacious assumptions that have no relevance to the law or the world that actual people live in...and has a near perfect record of failure in the courts. Its not 'syntax'. Its an argument that simple doesn't work nor make the slightest sense.

There's no 'secret status' that magically makes people exempt from all law. There never has been. Declaring yourself a 'sovereign citizen' has no more legal relevance than insisting you're Santa Claus. The law applies just the same either way.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 05:39 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
"Sovereign citizen" is an oxymoron.you can be one or the other but not both. Im neither or between at the moment, still learning and not confident enough to make any sudden motions yet.

yes, the organic act of 1871 is an issue but it goes back much further. in the US we have the issue of the missing 13th amendment from 1811 and the real reason for the war of 1812 it is.


the truth is hard to uncover but the media is definately not accurate on this (or any) subject.


key search words:

missing 13th amendment
Libel of review
savings to suitors
lawful money

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