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Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

 
J
User ID: 34311994
United States
02/15/2013 03:16 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
If the owner of the Lawful money (the US Treasury) does not GIVE me lawful money via my demand, they are obligated to pay any fees or perform any duties associated with my now FORCED use of said property.

First, FRNs are lawful money. Nixing your entire argument.

Second, who says that the Federal Reserve is 'obligated to pay any fees or perform any duties associated with my now FORCED use of said property.'

Smiling.....you citing yourselfr again?

Do you really believe that your pseudo-legal gibberish obligates the Federal Reserve (or anyone else) to do *anything*?

Sigh...you poor, silly bastards. You really don't get it, do you? You, citing you, isn't the law. Nor does it create any obligation, establish any loophole, create any limit, define any term, establish any jurisdiction.

That you believe it does is adorable. And has kept me smiling for days.
 Quoting: J 34311994


Are you saying I didn't cite Milan v. The US? That I didn't cite US v. Rickman? Remember, just because you *ignore* a citation doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I've cited both cases *at least* 3 times each in this thread alone. Yet you ignored *every* citation. And then, as you sovereign citizen types are wont to do, you insisted that because you ignore something, it doesn't exist.

Sigh...if only reality worked that way. Try again, this time reading for comprehension.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34311994
United States
02/15/2013 03:20 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Fuck the system that enslaves me.......
Fuck the system that steals money from my salary.....
Fuck the system that charges me fees for everything.......
Fuck the system that thinks I need it's permission to enjoy my god given rights (like traveling, or getting married)
Fuck the system that makes me pay $1000 in "child support" but yet I only get them 6 days per month..........


I can wrap my head around frustration. I can wrap my head around disagreement with the current laws.

But neither make the laws disappear. If you don't like the laws, change them. Elect folks who represent your views. Have them repeal laws you don't like or enact those you do.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/15/2013 03:59 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

Since so much has been buried by the piles of smelly crap from one poster here is the link where you can find actual cases of those demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411 are winning cases, avoiding cases altogether AND getting full refunds of withheld income tax:

[link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


There are several people there with full refunds in the forums.

There is no way anyone could have gone there and actually searched and not find them.

Sanitized returns and checks, all from redeeming lawful money per 12-USC 411.

I take your silence on being from Southern Poverty as acceptance of my claim you are a paid shill for them.

I take your lie that NOTEs pay debt as more proof you are a liar when it suites you.

I take your non-answer on who owns the FRNS you have in your pocket as proof they are not your property.

I take your lack of addressing the fact I have addressed Rickman and Ware (Ware had shit to do with FRNS, it was United States Notes) that you are simply posting to read your own posts and then claim nobody has called you a lair, pointed out your folly and misrepresentation of cases

AND your utter ignorance of the nature and meaning of 12-USC 411, redemption and freedom.

In short, you are nasty, brain washed and abrasive idiot.

Other than bumping this thread, you are pretty much good for nothing but shilling for the SPLC.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/15/2013 04:03 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Fuck the system that enslaves me.......
Fuck the system that steals money from my salary.....
Fuck the system that charges me fees for everything.......
Fuck the system that thinks I need it's permission to enjoy my god given rights (like traveling, or getting married)
Fuck the system that makes me pay $1000 in "child support" but yet I only get them 6 days per month..........


I can wrap my head around frustration. I can wrap my head around disagreement with the current laws.

But neither make the laws disappear. If you don't like the laws, change them. Elect folks who represent your views. Have them repeal laws you don't like or enact those you do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34311994


He can't, the international bankers control key positions and more importantly, the funding for ALL of it.

You are here to support the absolute LIE (spread by the Government itself, SPLC, the controlled media and BANKERS) that we still have a say in what goes on in Government and nobody with any sense still believes that.

Keep it up, it worked for over 200 years, but reality will overcome YOUR manufactured illusion.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16685774
United States
02/15/2013 04:37 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The 16th Amendment says you have to pay taxes.... enough said
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32235185


Everyone "pays taxes" not everyone has to pay the "income tax".

And the taxing power of congress does not come from the 16th, so go back to work and let the grown ups post.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


Lets get some facts straight
Income is a gain from some activity. Look up the tax code to get what they are.

I found something interesting in the Tax Treaties with other countries.

Personal service is not taxable in all of the tax treaties.

2 kinds of personal services
Independent - as a contractor
Dependent - as an employee

Personal service is trading your personal time for a fixed dollar amount also known as your salary.
Your not gaining anything if you are providing personal service. So how could the IRS tax your gains from income?

This new knowledge combined with the "Cracking the Code" book I have enough to start and challenge my tax status.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16685774


And you will lose. Just like the guy that wrote "cracking the code" did.

The Code is for TAXPAYERS. I promise you, if you try to use it, you will lose.

Demand your redemption per 12 USC 411 or you will fail in your quest. Just trying to save you lots and lots of grief and pain, the choice is yours.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


I thought of that already. Peter never mentions making sure to sign your name without prejudice or including UCC 1-308 into his signatures. Had he done so he may not have been charged with perjury.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/15/2013 05:22 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
...


Everyone "pays taxes" not everyone has to pay the "income tax".

And the taxing power of congress does not come from the 16th, so go back to work and let the grown ups post.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


Lets get some facts straight
Income is a gain from some activity. Look up the tax code to get what they are.

I found something interesting in the Tax Treaties with other countries.

Personal service is not taxable in all of the tax treaties.

2 kinds of personal services
Independent - as a contractor
Dependent - as an employee

Personal service is trading your personal time for a fixed dollar amount also known as your salary.
Your not gaining anything if you are providing personal service. So how could the IRS tax your gains from income?

This new knowledge combined with the "Cracking the Code" book I have enough to start and challenge my tax status.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16685774


And you will lose. Just like the guy that wrote "cracking the code" did.

The Code is for TAXPAYERS. I promise you, if you try to use it, you will lose.

Demand your redemption per 12 USC 411 or you will fail in your quest. Just trying to save you lots and lots of grief and pain, the choice is yours.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


I thought of that already. Peter never mentions making sure to sign your name without prejudice or including UCC 1-308 into his signatures. Had he done so he may not have been charged with perjury.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16685774


If you are willing to try it, then at least put "Demand is made for lawful money per 12-USC 411" on that form somewhere.

[link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]

There are people there who have been through the cracking the code thing and are having hell with I R S, but the demand is doing more than anything else they have done to date.

It is worth your time to at least go there and see what they are posting and the results. I applaud your efforts and want you to succeed!!

One case from someone who is not even a member there (known member anyway) just had criminal charges dropped by the DOJ, the case number and some of the paperwork are there to check out.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/15/2013 05:29 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I wonder if the shill from SPLC would like to bring not discuss jury nullification here too?

Since juries can actually disregard all instructions from the judge and/or evidence and make their own choice in a trial, that kind of proves the power is inherent in the people, not the Judge nor the court.

Actually, if even ONE jury member refuses to "go along" the result is a hung jury, effectively ending the case, not even the all powerful Oz judge can stop it from happening.

The more one knows, the more one sees, all the power we need is already ours. NONE of it needs to be surrendered to Bankers or judges or politicians.

We could talk about citizens arrest powers too, or just ignore them since we are "bugs" and the government is "windshield".
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16685774
United States
02/15/2013 05:40 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
...


Lets get some facts straight
Income is a gain from some activity. Look up the tax code to get what they are.

I found something interesting in the Tax Treaties with other countries.

Personal service is not taxable in all of the tax treaties.

2 kinds of personal services
Independent - as a contractor
Dependent - as an employee

Personal service is trading your personal time for a fixed dollar amount also known as your salary.
Your not gaining anything if you are providing personal service. So how could the IRS tax your gains from income?

This new knowledge combined with the "Cracking the Code" book I have enough to start and challenge my tax status.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16685774


And you will lose. Just like the guy that wrote "cracking the code" did.

The Code is for TAXPAYERS. I promise you, if you try to use it, you will lose.

Demand your redemption per 12 USC 411 or you will fail in your quest. Just trying to save you lots and lots of grief and pain, the choice is yours.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


I thought of that already. Peter never mentions making sure to sign your name without prejudice or including UCC 1-308 into his signatures. Had he done so he may not have been charged with perjury.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16685774


If you are willing to try it, then at least put "Demand is made for lawful money per 12-USC 411" on that form somewhere.

[link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]

There are people there who have been through the cracking the code thing and are having hell with I R S, but the demand is doing more than anything else they have done to date.

It is worth your time to at least go there and see what they are posting and the results. I applaud your efforts and want you to succeed!!

One case from someone who is not even a member there (known member anyway) just had criminal charges dropped by the DOJ, the case number and some of the paperwork are there to check out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


Thanks I've bookmarked it so I can go through the site thoroughly. One good thing from this post is learning new resources.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32235185
United States
02/15/2013 08:16 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Fuck the system that enslaves me.......
Fuck the system that steals money from my salary.....
Fuck the system that charges me fees for everything.......
Fuck the system that thinks I need it's permission to enjoy my god given rights (like traveling, or getting married)
Fuck the system that makes me pay $1000 in "child support" but yet I only get them 6 days per month..........


I can wrap my head around frustration. I can wrap my head around disagreement with the current laws.

But neither make the laws disappear. If you don't like the laws, change them. Elect folks who represent your views. Have them repeal laws you don't like or enact those you do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34311994
Is that you Joe Stack?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32235185
United States
02/15/2013 08:18 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I wonder if the shill from SPLC would like to bring not discuss jury nullification here too?

Since juries can actually disregard all instructions from the judge and/or evidence and make their own choice in a trial, that kind of proves the power is inherent in the people, not the Judge nor the court.

Actually, if even ONE jury member refuses to "go along" the result is a hung jury, effectively ending the case, not even the all powerful Oz judge can stop it from happening.

The more one knows, the more one sees, all the power we need is already ours. NONE of it needs to be surrendered to Bankers or judges or politicians.

We could talk about citizens arrest powers too, or just ignore them since we are "bugs" and the government is "windshield".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288
Oh we have a domestic terrorist here.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 09:44 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

Since so much has been buried by the piles of smelly crap from one poster here is the link where you can find actual cases of those demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411 are winning cases, avoiding cases altogether AND getting full refunds of withheld income tax:

[link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


There are several people there with full refunds in the forums.

There is no way anyone could have gone there and actually searched and not find them.

Sanitized returns and checks, all from redeeming lawful money per 12-USC 411.

I take your silence on being from Southern Poverty as acceptance of my claim you are a paid shill for them.

I take your lie that NOTEs pay debt as more proof you are a liar when it suites you.

I take your non-answer on who owns the FRNS you have in your pocket as proof they are not your property.

I take your lack of addressing the fact I have addressed Rickman and Ware (Ware had shit to do with FRNS, it was United States Notes) that you are simply posting to read your own posts and then claim nobody has called you a lair, pointed out your folly and misrepresentation of cases

AND your utter ignorance of the nature and meaning of 12-USC 411, redemption and freedom.

In short, you are nasty, brain washed and abrasive idiot.

Other than bumping this thread, you are pretty much good for nothing but shilling for the SPLC.
 Quoting: J 34311994



There are several people there with full refunds in the forums.

Who and with what evidence. Name them. And show us the evidence. I didn't see either.

Educate us.


There is no way anyone could have gone there and actually searched and not find them.

Then it will be remarkably easy for you to name them and back their claims with evidence.

Please do so now.


I take your silence on being from Southern Poverty as acceptance of my claim you are a paid shill for them.


In this thread alone, I've been called a paid shill, a government agent, a member of the illuminati, a 'Jew' (I think, they altered the spelling a little), an IRS agent, a member of the illuminati, an elite, a plant, a domestic terrorist, a communist, a socialist and more silly names than I can shake a stick at. You 'sovereign citizen' types just love your labels.

After a while, it all just blends together as useless noise. You have as much evidence for your claim as those poor, hapless idiots before you did for theirs:

Namely, nothing.

But again, you accept your own imagination as irrefutable evidence of whatever you wish to invent.

.....if only reality worked that way.

Now...answer my question: since FRNs are lawful money, why would 'demanding redemption' for lawful money magically make you immune to paying taxes?

Especially given that the courts have already found that no one is entitled to 'redeem' FRNs for precious metals?

Your argument doesn't make the slightest sense. And of course, is backed by zero evidence. But then most of the confused, awkward idiocy on this thread suffers from the same deficits.


AND your utter ignorance of the nature and meaning of 12-USC 411, redemption and freedom.

More accurately, I don't accept your latest inane conspiracy babble as anything more than inane conspiracy babble. With FRN's legally recognized as lawful money, your claims are not only factually baseless but completely unnecessary.

No where in Title 12 does it say that demanding your FRNs be 'redeemed for lawful money' makes you immune from taxation. That's you citing yourself as Title 12. Which is more than a little silly. Worse, no court has ever recognized the claim as valid. No law either.

Its just you...saying it must be so. And you're nobody.

So what else have you got?
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 09:50 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
There are people there who have been through the cracking the code thing and are having hell with I R S, but the demand is doing more than anything else they have done to date.

Yet when you ask who these people are....you know, with actual names....and proof that their argument worked with the IRS, you get evasions, excuses and useless vagueness.

So apparently this plan is foolproof....as long as you're Elvis, Bigfoot, Colonel sanders, the Easter Bunny, or Optimus Prime.

Back in the real world, expect folks to get *really* vague when you ask for specifics. They can't even explain their logic. Why would 'demanding redemption' magically make you immune to taxation?

They can't say. Its just another in an endless litany of 'incantations of the month' that they insist will exploit a loophole that they are desperate to convince you must exist....but no law or court recognizes.

Ask Hendrickson, Benson, Meredith, Schiff or Carr how well these magic spell arguments work out. When they're all out of prison, of course.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 09:54 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since juries can actually disregard all instructions from the judge and/or evidence and make their own choice in a trial, that kind of proves the power is inherent in the people, not the Judge nor the court.

Its already been discussed. Juries weild the power of the people when they sit in an official capacity as juror in court. Just like a judge weilds the power of the people when they sit in an official capacity as judge in court.

And you, Sir....are not the people. The people have authority that you do not. And you are subject to their laws, regardless of if you agree with them.

Get used to the idea.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/15/2013 09:56 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
What J is implying is that just because someone is born on land "owned" by someone else that they are under the jurisdiction of the owner. lol

What I'm flat out saying is that if you're in a state or country, you're under the jurisdiction of that state or country's laws. If you're in maryland, the laws of maryland apply. If you're in the US, the laws of the US apply.

Jurisdiction is established geographically.

Not by what currency you have in your pocket, or the font size on your birth certificate, or some special syntax that you've used, or even your citizenship.

A German national say, running a red light gets the same ticket a native would.

All these silly little loopholes you've made up, all these imaginary 'restrictions' that you insist the government must abide, all these little hoops you insist the government must jump through don't actually exist.

You're not making legal arguments. You're making statements of personal opinion that you *insist are laws....

....but aren't. Self proclaimed 'sovereign citizens' are still subject to all the same laws as everyone else. Including federal taxes, state taxes, income taxes, traffic laws, licensing requirements, etc. They're not special and they're not exempt.

Get used to the idea.
 Quoting: J 34311994


And I'm saying just because I'm born on land doesn't mean anyone has jurisdiction over me because there is no contract between myself and that entity..in this case a FICTION called a corporation (State)

The laws don't apply to anyone because nobody ever consented to the laws.

The State which is a fiction has no jurisdiction over men and women. It can't have jurisdiction over anybody because it can't own property because it is a fiction.

I'm not making legal arguments because legal only applies to those who consented to the system which I never did


I repeat Mr. Evasive. Just because I'm born on land doesn't put me under anyone's jurisdiction including a King.

Who says the States or the USA has jurisdiction? Just because they they threaten force and violence?

Sorry but you are claiming these fictions have jurisdiction over me and over a certain geographically area but none of us have ever agreed to that

Your statutory legal system is irrelevant because none of us have ever consented to the system which means we are not a party to it
miserkocho2

User ID: 17809430
Australia
02/15/2013 09:56 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
i wonder how this subject is divided amoungst those who have nothing to lose,and those who have invested their lives in the system.
me i always thought it was bullshit,money was never a motivation for me.im happy within myself and i can get by on very little and adapt to different situations and environments as a neccessity.those who fear the lack of structure will gling to the stability of government and expect everyone to follow.
brought to you by carl's jnr.
CARLS JNR FUCK YOU,IM EATING!!
and Tarleton's cigarettes
IF YOU DONT SMOKE TARLETONS,FUCK YOU!!
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 09:57 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Fuck the system that enslaves me.......
Fuck the system that steals money from my salary.....
Fuck the system that charges me fees for everything.......
Fuck the system that thinks I need it's permission to enjoy my god given rights (like traveling, or getting married)
Fuck the system that makes me pay $1000 in "child support" but yet I only get them 6 days per month..........


I can wrap my head around frustration. I can wrap my head around disagreement with the current laws.

But neither make the laws disappear. If you don't like the laws, change them. Elect folks who represent your views. Have them repeal laws you don't like or enact those you do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34311994
Is that you Joe Stack?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32235185


That's me. And my name isn't Joe.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/15/2013 09:57 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
If you were born on the King's Land would you be subject to taxes of the King? Would the King have jurisdiction over you because you were born on the King's Land?

Just because I was born in North America doesn't make me the subject of a fiction called a corporation. I didn't agree to any of it did I?

The government (corporation) is a fiction and can't even own property. Only men and women can own property
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/15/2013 09:58 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
If fact J wouldn't you say that all of us were born in North America into a system of slavery? When J did you or I or anyone else agree to the system we were born into? When did we agree to abide by laws that were written by others? When did you and I and everyone else agree to give the corporation the USA or the State corporation jurisdiction over us?

No conspiracy J. We were all born on this land and some fiction called the USA corporation is claiming jurisdiction over us. We never agreed to the system but were born into it. That doesn't mean we consented to the system J does it.

Now how is that a conspiracy J?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1245664
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/15/2013 10:12 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
J is claiming we are all a party to a system we never consented to.

J is claiming a fiction called a State or USA (Corporations) simply have jurisdiction over us because they say so...even though we never agreed to it

When did we all consent to giving the USA or the State fictions jurisdiction over a certain geographical area. I never did, did you?

So why are these fictional corporations called the USA and States claim they have jurisdiction over certain geographical areas when we neverr agreed to it?

Why are they claiming we are subjects to their laws yet we never consented to the system?

J will keep talking in circles because he knows there is no basis or foundation for these fictional entities and the fictional "legal" system they've created

In fact J has lost the argument already back at the beginning of this post

Just watch he'll talk in circles again...J is good at that...
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 10:14 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
And I'm saying just because I'm born on land doesn't mean anyone has jurisdiction over me because there is no contract between myself and that entity..in this case a FICTION called a corporation (State)

I get what you're 'saying'. Its also useless nonsense. Jurisdiction isn't established by 'contract'. Its established by geography. If you're in Maryland, you're subject to the laws of Maryland. If you're in the US, you're subject to the laws of the US.

You disagree. Who cares? You're nobody. You citing yourself as the law is meaningless, as you aren't the law.

So who says that jurisdiction is established by contract? Show me the law saying this.



The laws don't apply to anyone because nobody ever consented to the laws.



And who said that laws require your personal consent to be applied to you?

You, citing you again? So what? You're nobody.


The State which is a fiction has no jurisdiction over men and women. It can't have jurisdiction over anybody because it can't own property because it is a fiction.


Who says that you need to be able to own property in order to have jurisdiction?

Just you, citing you. Which is meaningless, as you're nobody. And you don't know what you're talking about.



I repeat Mr. Evasive. Just because I'm born on land doesn't put me under anyone's jurisdiction including a King.


That's what you say. And you're nobody. You could call yourself Napoleon, it doesn't mean you command the French Army. You could call yourself Jesus Christ...doesn't mean the Catholics now worship you.

Your imaginary labels are irrelevant. The law applies to you the same no matter what you call yourself.


Who says the States or the USA has jurisdiction? Just because they they threaten force and violence?


We the people do, through our laws. And the people have vastly more power than you do. We're authoritative, you aren't.

You can imagine you're magically immune, that you're a king, or a pony or a popcicle. It really doesn't matter what you imagine. Break our laws and we catch you doing it....and we'll subject you to our legal system. There's nothing you can do about it.

You're not special and you're not exempt. Get used to the idea.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 10:15 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Just because I was born in North America doesn't make me the subject of a fiction called a corporation. I didn't agree to any of it did I?

So you say. The law and the courts say differently. In any court of law, the laws and the courts win.

You can ignore the law. But it won't ignore you.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 10:19 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
f fact J wouldn't you say that all of us were born in North America into a system of slavery?

We're born into a system of laws. And subject to the laws of the people. And we get a say in their creation by electing the representatives who make them and select judges, cabinet members, and the like.

The power lies with the people. And you aren't the people.

Again, my little 'sovereign citizen', your imagination is irrelevant. You can call yourself 'King', or 'Batman' or 'Optimus Prime'. But fail to pay your taxes and we catch you....and you'll find that your declarations of unilateral sovereignty doesn't amount to much in a court of law.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/15/2013 10:20 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
What laws and what entities? They simply don't exist J. They are fictions and nobody ever agreed to give them jurisdiction. In fact you are a fiction LOL
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/15/2013 10:24 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The only FACT is J that none of us ever consented to that system so the system doesn't exist. Is is a FICTION.

Nobody has jurisdiction over the land J

When everybody wakes up to the fact that they never consented to the system it will collapse on its own
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 10:26 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
J is claiming we are all a party to a system we never consented to.

I'm saying that you're subject to the laws of the land. If you go to France, the laws of France apply to you. If you go to the US, the laws of the US apply to you. If you go to Maryland, the laws of Maryland apply to you.

Your 'consent' to the laws is irrelevant. IF that were the case than any murder could kill anyone and then just decide that murder statutes don't apply to him.

Thankfully, we the people decide which laws apply and which don't through our representatives. And you aren't the people. Our authority supersedes yours in every country you go to....with the possible exception of Somalia. And then you'll be subject to the whim of the first warlord to find you.

Worse, you're not even thinking your argument through. If you *really* believed that you were a king that could set up his own lands within our country, then by definition you would be an a foreign nation invading our country and trying to annex our territory...and we'd be constitutionally obligated to shoot you on sight.

Lucky for you, you aren't a king nor does any law or court recognize you as such. You're just an anonymous dude on the internet who insists he must be a king because he says so.

Sigh...if only reality worked that way.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 10:29 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
he only FACT is J that none of us ever consented to that system so the system doesn't exist. Is is a FICTION.

And who says that your consent is required for laws to be applied to you? If this were true any murderer could kill anyone he wished and then just unilaterally declare that murder statutes don't apply to him.

Thankfully, we live under the laws of the people. And our laws apply to you regardless of whether or not you agree with them. This is true for *any* country you go to.

Try going to Mexico and telling their police that you can do whatever you want and none of their laws apply to you. After they stop laughing...I don't think you'd find the results very pleasant.

Sorry, my little 'sovereign citizen', but your imagination just has nothing to do with the law, the courts, or the real world. But its quite amusing.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/15/2013 10:30 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
It has been fun posting but I'm done.

You are Sovereign because you were born Sovereign. Simple as that

I've never even heard your president talk J because I don't watch TV anymore already for a long long time

I have nothing to do with your system J because it doesn't exist in my world

I could care less about health care or all the other nonsense because I'm not a party to it because I never agreed to it

Yes I AM THE KING in my world J. You are a subject to a fiction and you choose to be.

Anyways at some point you'll realize everybody is waking up and this system will collapse on its own. It's only a matter of time.

Best of luck serf J
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 10:32 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
What laws and what entities? They simply don't exist J.

Says you, citing yourself. And you're nobody. That you deny any law exists doesn't change the fact that 1) the law does exist 2) you are subject to it.

You still have to pay your taxes, you still have to abide traffic laws no matter what you call yourself. As the people are authoritative and you aren't.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/15/2013 10:35 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
It has been fun posting but I'm done.

You were done before you even started posting. As you citing you doesn't amount to much. There's no secret handshake, no special status, no font size, no syntax or incantation that makes you immune from the law.

You disagree. Who cares? The law applies to you just the same.

Get used to the idea. As when you're in our country, you'll abide our rules. Or we'll punish you accordingly.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551129
Canada
02/15/2013 10:41 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
It has been fun posting but I'm done.

You are Sovereign because you were born Sovereign. Simple as that

I've never even heard your president talk J because I don't watch TV anymore already for a long long time

I have nothing to do with your system J because it doesn't exist in my world

I could care less about health care or all the other nonsense because I'm not a party to it because I never agreed to it

Yes I AM THE KING in my world J. You are a subject to a fiction and you choose to be.

Anyways at some point you'll realize everybody is waking up and this system will collapse on its own. It's only a matter of time.

Best of luck serf J

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1246378


The enrgies are in place that ensures this...

What is interesting - the sequence of events...

News








We're dropping truth bombs like it's the end of days!