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Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

 
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:47 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Keep not proving your claims, burrito bean.

Smiling...another keyboard commando who talks big on the internet. But won't dare put his theories to the test.

Meh, almost everyone here is the same. They talk big about how they don't have to pay their taxes, how they've found some loophole to the 'maritime courts', how they're immune to the laws.

And yet they do pay their income taxes. And their state taxes. And their sales taxes. And obey traffic laws.

As they, like you, don't believe their own babble. Which you've proven yet again.

Keep running.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551129
Canada
02/16/2013 12:48 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Whose courts and whose laws? They aren't mine because I never agreed to any of it. Just like the Chinese courts and laws aren't my laws.

If you're in China, they are. If you're in the US, then our laws apply. As jurisdiction is established geographically.

Your agreement with the law is completely irrelevant. As the laws apply whether or not you agree. If 'consent' were required for a law to apply, then any murderer could kill anyone they wish....and then summarily declare that the statute against murder doesn't apply to them.

Thankfully, we don't live under such a system. No nation does. That you imagine you're immune from all laws doesn't change the fact that if you violate our laws and we catch you.....you'll be punished accordingly.

You don't dare break a law where you could be caught because you know full well that your entire line of reasoning is meaningless gibberish. Its the same folly for virtually the whole of the sovereign citizen movement. You're brave in the bubble of the message board...and timid as church mice where the *actual* law is applied in the real world.

Those few hapless fools that actually try to put their theories to the test.....end up in jail.
 Quoting: J 34504191


So basically your saying - this democracy is a dictatorship, where full disclosure is impossible to achieve, and fear is the modem of operation...

The only real test of anything is to do it, and you are right, some have gone to jail... The jail aspect gets peoples attention, and they educate themselves more... But, it will not stop them...
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:49 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Was that proof? Hmm, NOPE.

Prove your claims of jurisdiction, or that I am in the US, or that I am an ilk?

Can't do it, or you would do it.


Wow. More excuses why you don't dare test your theory.

Now how did I know that was coming.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:50 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Proof:

"The establishment of a fact by the use of evidence. Anything that can make a person believe that a fact or proposition is true or false. It is distinguishable from evidence in that proof is a broad term comprehending everything that may be adduced at a trial, whereas evidence is a narrow term describing certain types of proof that can be admitted at trial."

Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:52 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
So basically your saying - this democracy is a dictatorship, where full disclosure is impossible to achieve, and fear is the modem of operation...

So basically you're saying that if a murderer kills someone....that he can declare himself exempt from the statute against murder because he doesn't consent to the law?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:54 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Provide your evidence I am under the Jurisdiction of the US Government, J.

Since you failed so badly proving it, I will lower the standard.

you should be used to low standards, you have lived up to them for the past 48 hours on this thread.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:54 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.


You're subject to the law of the land. If you're in the US, then you're subject to the laws of the US. And if you violate one and we catch you, you will be subject to the law.

Which of course you already know. Which is why you don't dare violate a law where anyone might catch you.

If your theory had actual merit....none of that would be necessary. Demonstrating rather elegantly that even you don't believe your nonsense claims.

Keep running.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:56 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Provide your evidence I am under the Jurisdiction of the US Government, J.

Since you failed so badly proving it, I will lower the standard.

you should be used to low standards, you have lived up to them for the past 48 hours on this thread.


And like clockwork, its just more excuses why you don't dare to test your silly little theory.

Shrugs....so much for your bold declarations of immunity from the law. Even you don't believe your nonsense.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:58 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.


You're subject to the law of the land. If you're in the US, then you're subject to the laws of the US. And if you violate one and we catch you, you will be subject to the law.

Which of course you already know. Which is why you don't dare violate a law where anyone might catch you.

If your theory had actual merit....none of that would be necessary. Demonstrating rather elegantly that even you don't believe your nonsense claims.

Keep running.
 Quoting: J 34504191


Provide your evidence the 'law of the land' applies to me.

As you say: YOU saying it does not make it so, or are you a 'sovereign citizen' now, citing yourself?
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 01:00 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
thought of that already. Peter never mentions making sure to sign your name without prejudice or including UCC 1-308 into his signatures. Had he done so he may not have been charged with perjury.

Or....there's no secret code or sequence of special documents that makes one immune from the law. And you just don't know what you're talking about.

Guys....the 'magic incantation' theory has been tested. It doesn't work. There's no special status, no secret handshake, no font type, no flag fringe, no syntax that makes you immune from the law.

As your entire arguments are predicated on pseudo-legal principles and definitions that neither the law nor the courts recognize as valid.

And the courts are where the rubber meets the road.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 01:01 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Provide your evidence I am under the Jurisdiction of the US Government, J.

Since you failed so badly proving it, I will lower the standard.

you should be used to low standards, you have lived up to them for the past 48 hours on this thread.


And like clockwork, its just more excuses why you don't dare to test your silly little theory.

Shrugs....so much for your bold declarations of immunity from the law. Even you don't believe your nonsense.
 Quoting: J 34504191


Quote me where I posted I was "immune to the law" I never posted that.

Citing yourself again?

Provide evidence I am subject to the "laws of the land". That should be easy enough, or are self citing that too?
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 01:03 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Provide your evidence the 'law of the land' applies to me.

As you say: YOU saying it does not make it so, or are you a 'sovereign citizen' now, citing yourself?


I've already given you a cartoon simple process to test your theory in a matter of minutes.

And predictably, you won't dare. I know, I know...its so easy to make bold proclamations about your immunity from the law on the *internet*.

But not so easy in the real world where there are actual consequences. Is it, buddy?

Shrugs. Keep running.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/16/2013 01:06 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.


You're subject to the law of the land. If you're in the US, then you're subject to the laws of the US. And if you violate one and we catch you, you will be subject to the law.

Which of course you already know. Which is why you don't dare violate a law where anyone might catch you.

If your theory had actual merit....none of that would be necessary. Demonstrating rather elegantly that even you don't believe your nonsense claims.

Keep running.
 Quoting: J 34504191


There is no law of the land. The law is a fiction created by some people who got together and created it. I never agreed to it so it doesn't apply to me
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 01:06 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Provide your evidence the 'law of the land' applies to me.

As you say: YOU saying it does not make it so, or are you a 'sovereign citizen' now, citing yourself?


I've already given you a cartoon simple process to test your theory in a matter of minutes.

And predictably, you won't dare. I know, I know...its so easy to make bold proclamations about your immunity from the law on the *internet*.

But not so easy in the real world where there are actual consequences. Is it, buddy?

Shrugs. Keep running.
 Quoting: J 34504191


You claimed the law of the land applied to me, I am not asking for proof, I am asking what evidence do you have to back your claim?

Either you have evidence to back your claim or you are citing nothing but YOUR OPINION.

Come on 'sovereign citizen' lets see your evidence besides your own OPINION.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/16/2013 01:07 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.


You're subject to the law of the land. If you're in the US, then you're subject to the laws of the US. And if you violate one and we catch you, you will be subject to the law.

Which of course you already know. Which is why you don't dare violate a law where anyone might catch you.

If your theory had actual merit....none of that would be necessary. Demonstrating rather elegantly that even you don't believe your nonsense claims.

Keep running.
 Quoting: J 34504191


There is no law of the land. The law is a fiction created by some people who got together and created it. I never agreed to it so it doesn't apply to me
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 01:08 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.


You're subject to the law of the land. If you're in the US, then you're subject to the laws of the US. And if you violate one and we catch you, you will be subject to the law.

Which of course you already know. Which is why you don't dare violate a law where anyone might catch you.

If your theory had actual merit....none of that would be necessary. Demonstrating rather elegantly that even you don't believe your nonsense claims.

Keep running.
 Quoting: J 34504191


There is no law of the land. The law is a fiction created by some people who got together and created it. I never agreed to it so it doesn't apply to me
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1246378


I would think law of the land is things like "if you play in the mud, you get muddy" or "water is wet" those are laws of the land, right?
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 01:09 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Personal service is trading your personal time for a fixed dollar amount also known as your salary.
Your not gaining anything if you are providing personal service. So how could the IRS tax your gains from income?


Or wages. And of course you're giving something if you're working: your labor. There's no exemption from 'personal service'. If you get paid, that income is taxable.

This particular legal principle has been tested and tested over and over again. Your argument has found no traction with the courts since say, the passage of the 16th amendment. Which lifts any apportionment issues.

The 16h amendment is crystal clear:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

There's no exemption for personal service. You've imagined it. And no law nor court recognizes such an exemption. Which might explain all the prison time and heavy fines associated with folks foolish enough to try and use this reasoning in court.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/16/2013 01:10 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Whose courts and whose laws? They aren't mine because I never agreed to any of it. Just like the Chinese courts and laws aren't my laws.

If you're in China, they are. If you're in the US, then our laws apply. As jurisdiction is established geographically.

Your agreement with the law is completely irrelevant. As the laws apply whether or not you agree. If 'consent' were required for a law to apply, then any murderer could kill anyone they wish....and then summarily declare that the statute against murder doesn't apply to them.

Thankfully, we don't live under such a system. No nation does. That you imagine you're immune from all laws doesn't change the fact that if you violate our laws and we catch you.....you'll be punished accordingly.

You don't dare break a law where you could be caught because you know full well that your entire line of reasoning is meaningless gibberish. Its the same folly for virtually the whole of the sovereign citizen movement. You're brave in the bubble of the message board...and timid as church mice where the *actual* law is applied in the real world.

Those few hapless fools that actually try to put their theories to the test.....end up in jail.
 Quoting: J 34504191


The laws are a fiction created by men who have no jurisdiction over me. Please provide proof that the fictions have jurisdiction over me...I'm waiting.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 01:11 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
j has been reduced to citing himself like his opinions were law.

Clearly 'sovereign citizen' behavior. He should go wave his vagina at a cop and get arrested so he will know the law owns him.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 01:12 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
would think law of the land is things like "if you play in the mud, you get muddy" or "water is wet" those are laws of the land, right?

Still clinging to those excuses why you won't test your theory, my little keyboard commando?

Yup....its easy to boldly declare your immunity from all law on the internet. But as you're demonstrating for us yet again, applying those principles in the real world is a different story entirely.

Smiling...its a lesson so many of your ilk have learned when they try to use their pseudo-legal gibberish in court. I'm glad I could teach you tonight.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/16/2013 01:13 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.


You're subject to the law of the land. If you're in the US, then you're subject to the laws of the US. And if you violate one and we catch you, you will be subject to the law.

Which of course you already know. Which is why you don't dare violate a law where anyone might catch you.

If your theory had actual merit....none of that would be necessary. Demonstrating rather elegantly that even you don't believe your nonsense claims.

Keep running.
 Quoting: J 34504191


There is no law of the land. The law is a fiction created by some people who got together and created it. I never agreed to it so it doesn't apply to me
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1246378


I would think law of the land is things like "if you play in the mud, you get muddy" or "water is wet" those are laws of the land, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


Yeah that sounds about right.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 01:13 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Why is J now posting things from 10 pages back?

Did he crack up from all the pressure from the subjects?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/16/2013 01:13 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.


You're subject to the law of the land. If you're in the US, then you're subject to the laws of the US. And if you violate one and we catch you, you will be subject to the law.

Which of course you already know. Which is why you don't dare violate a law where anyone might catch you.

If your theory had actual merit....none of that would be necessary. Demonstrating rather elegantly that even you don't believe your nonsense claims.

Keep running.
 Quoting: J 34504191


There is no law of the land. The law is a fiction created by some people who got together and created it. I never agreed to it so it doesn't apply to me
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1246378


I would think law of the land is things like "if you play in the mud, you get muddy" or "water is wet" those are laws of the land, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


Yeah that sounds about right.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 01:15 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
would think law of the land is things like "if you play in the mud, you get muddy" or "water is wet" those are laws of the land, right?

Still clinging to those excuses why you won't test your theory, my little keyboard commando?

Yup....its easy to boldly declare your immunity from all law on the internet. But as you're demonstrating for us yet again, applying those principles in the real world is a different story entirely.

Smiling...its a lesson so many of your ilk have learned when they try to use their pseudo-legal gibberish in court. I'm glad I could teach you tonight.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504191


Still waiting for evidence the law of the land applies to me.

Provide your evidence, ya self citing sovrun city zun!
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 01:15 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The laws are a fiction created by men who have no jurisdiction over me. Please provide proof that the fictions have jurisdiction over me...I'm waiting.

If the laws are fiction....then go violate one where a cop can see you.

No, go ahead, I'll wait.

................

.............

...........

........

......

....


...





..



Laughing...yeah, that's what I thought my little keyboard commando. A lion on the internet. A mouse on the street.

Exactly as predicted.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551129
Canada
02/16/2013 01:16 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
So basically your saying - this democracy is a dictatorship, where full disclosure is impossible to achieve, and fear is the modem of operation...

So basically you're saying that if a murderer kills someone....that he can declare himself exempt from the statute against murder because he doesn't consent to the law?
 Quoting: J 34504191


WTF is that...

You have been accusing everyone of assinine theories, then you in an assinine fashion respond to me with something not related to my question...

This is how - to use your term - your "ilk" respond, and is why people are fed up with you...

OK, direct question, no assinine responses please;

What is the reason for using all CAPITAL'S on government issued ID ???
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 01:17 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since so much has been buried by the piles of smelly crap from one poster here is the link where you can find actual cases of those demanding lawful money per 12 USC 411 are winning cases, avoiding cases altogether AND getting full refunds of withheld income tax:

So who are these people again who keep using this obscure loophole to avoid having to pay taxes?

Because I just checked the page you posted and the only name listed is the blogger himself.

So can I assume that this tactic only works if you're name is Elvis, Megatron, or the Easter Bunny?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 01:17 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The law of fire applies to me:

"Play with fire and you could get burned."

The law of gravity keeps me on the ground, unless the laws of lift, air and lift keeps me in the air.

Did Government make those laws of the land, fire and air?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 01:19 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Now, go wave yo vagina in a cops face, J and see whut happens.

If she is a lesbian, it could lead to a relationship for ya!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 01:20 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Why is J bringing up posts from the way back machine?

Did he not already prove them to be fantasy and then start talking about dicks and cops as proof of jurisdiction?

What gives?

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