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Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

 
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 02:32 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
imho its a logical progression,just as default contitutionalism was compromised and corrupted into what we see today,an interim political strategy would work toward restoring what we lost,but ultimately evolving towards a free self sufficient non centralised voluntaryists society.

*Blinking*

This doesn't look snarky at all! Give me a moment to shift gears.

<cracking my knuckles and screwing on my thinking hat>

There, all done. So where were we?

I think the problems with non-centralized v8oluntaryist society is the same problems with anarchy in general:

1) Lack of an effective system of conflict management

2) Difficulty creating major projects (bridges, roads, etc)

3) Inherent instability of subjectifying moral and ethical conduct with no means of enforcement

4) Unsustainability as leaders within the 'non-centralized voluntariyist' society would eventually devolve into factionalism.

5) Vulnerability to outside threats due to lack of organization
miserkocho2

User ID: 17809430
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02/16/2013 02:37 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
use the freeman arguement,and u may get off a parking ticket or speeding fine.u get a million people refusing to pay taxes,they'll make an example out of you.if u'd like an example of this watch cool hand luke.they'll break you.if u got the balls thats your cross to bare and thats what real men respect.you only live once
brought to you by carl's jnr.
CARLS JNR FUCK YOU,IM EATING!!
and Tarleton's cigarettes
IF YOU DONT SMOKE TARLETONS,FUCK YOU!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551129
Canada
02/16/2013 02:55 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Gee J, if you are going to talk proper Canadian, throw in a few "eh's"..

I admit, I only dabble in the language having been to Canada a handful of times. The people seemed nice, I loved the national parks...and those french-canadian girls can suck start a leafblower.

So over all, 4 out of 5 stars!


Not a paper person, a trust, you know it and I know it...
 Quoting: J 34504191


So my time isn't up and you *are* going to share your conspiracy. I knew all my wishing would come true!

Tell me more. Flesh it out for me. Is this a Canadian trust, I assume?


On behalf of the French-Canadian girls - Merci!!!But, don't use "suck start a leafblower" line, it would not go over too well...

No, I won't go any further on the trust subject with you, other then this - Not a conspiracy, a universal principle, that can be twisted, but, never broken...

Time IS almost up, and I will share this with you;

Be carefull of your mindset, when you leave...Your auric field is all you will have... I would choose to keep it balanced if I were you...What you can get away with here, does not apply on the astral...Thought creates, and it is not subject to any laws...

Enjoying the wild weather ????
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 03:05 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
use the freeman arguement,and u may get off a parking ticket or speeding fine.u get a million people refusing to pay taxes,they'll make an example out of you.if u'd like an example of this watch cool hand luke.they'll break you.if u got the balls thats your cross to bare and thats what real men respect.you only live once
 Quoting: miserkocho2


It is not about getting off of anything... It is about paying your fines, taxes with full disclosure on remedy...

No charge can come, without remedy...
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 03:16 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
j i absolutely agree that the foundation of law is mostly objective,but the subversion over the past few centuries is not.if you can get more objective than a framework based upon nature and the laws of the universe,we would all be gods.


The idea of a 'natural order' or 'laws of the universe' I've always found to be rather meaningless unless we're talking about something like physics.

If we're talking about people, there may be some genetic predispositions to certain activities (cooperation, tribalism, sex, territorialism, aggression, altruism, violence, caring for our young etc.). But we're most commonly a product of our culture

Generally speaking large groups of people use directed reasoning, where we assimilate only that which we already agree with. Individuals vary more widely on this. So when interpreting the 'laws of nature', they usually interpret them in such a way to confirm what they already believe.

A warrior society might look at the violent conflict in nature and see confirmation of the virtue of martial prowess. A religious society might see cooperation in insects, or caring for offspring of a forest animal as an affirmation of a more altrustic 'law of nature'. In short, laws of nature are little more than a cultural Rorschach test that we project ourselves upon.

It reality, its just us. While there may be a God up there watching over us after having created us, he's not hanging around for us to ask questions. WE interpret what 'He' is supposed to be saying. Which, like the laws of nature, always seem to reaffirm what we already believe. We decide what is moral, we decide what is ethical. We define the social mores of a given civilization.

When I speak of a 'more objective' society, I don't mean completely objective. I simply mean that a civilization that establishes for itself a particular set of enforcible social standards. As long as people are involved, its impossible to remove al subjective interpretation. But it is possible to have a *mostly* objective system of laws and moral codes.

The standard of that moral system for a given society....is whatever we believe it is. Not as individuals. But as a civilization. If we believe in the divine right of kings, or that the emperor is the literal son of the sun goddess, or that the people are the supreme authority or that god's prophet decides all moral standards....we create an relatively objective moral standard. And it is from this that laws are codified and enforced.

The 'power of the people' basis is in my opinion, the least bullshyte of the various options. I mean, if you believe that a carved log is the basis of your moral system, you're using a proxy for what is essentially a human decision. The log doesn't have much to say. How we 'interpret' its wisdom is where our moral code comes from. Meaning once again, its just us.

So when you *start* with the idea that the people are the authority from which all other authority is derived, you cut out the middle man and nonsense proxies and get right to the point. I like that. I also like the focus on the individual liberty of man....as it acts as a balance against the tyranny of the majority. The majority gets to make choices that effect society but there is push back in the form of individual liberty. The majority can't, say....decide that all gingers should be castrated. The majority lacks that authority. At least in theory.

Even in the US system, the people have the ultimate authority to strip away any right. Its just *really* hard to do: an amendment. And its difficult to convince a sufficient number of folks that the gingers need to go. But the fact that we *could*, underlines the fact that *all* morality is ultimately a judgment call made by us.

The genius of the US system (and most systems that it emulates or emulate it) is its inefficiency. Power is *really* really hard to wield. I mean, a BI-cameral congress? Each that have to agree? AND a signature by an executive? And eventual tacit or explicit sign off by the judiciary?

That's insanely complicated. And that's just the bare bones of the federal system. Add 50 additional state governments, various municipalities, their election processes, their judiciaries....and you have a system that is balkanized almost to the point of uselessness.

Which is actually why we're still around.


Its the kind of system that makes any real change *glacial*. Significant movement on the issue of rights for example could take a generation. Its that slowness, that ineffeciency that prevents the tyranny of the majority from infringing too much on the rights of the individual. We might have a spasm of hysteria here and there (freedom fries anyone? How about that 'Victory Mosque' in NY)....but it takes long term, sustained change to society itself to actually see any real change.

It also allows injustice to continue for *way* to freakin' long when it exists institutionally. I mean, America's hang up with gays has lasted for centuries. And only now are we even *starting* to address it with any consistency. Black folks had to endure generations of bullshyte even after slavery...and of course slavery is one of the most hideous institutions to every cast its shadow on our national character. The south was punished for generations by an angry north, women had to eat shyte for well over a century on paper, and closer to two in practice....and don't even get me started about the Native Americans.

So its not a perfect system. But its far, far better than a system of *subjective* morality. Where every one gets to do whatever they want to each other. The entire concept of individual liberty becomes little more than ivory tower intellectual exercise....and in practice, the strong dominate the weak. Utterly. Where there's no stabilizing standards of cultural moral codes or ethical codes, no effective method of conflict resolution. Its the recess schoolyard, all day, every day....and no over arching leviathan like 'teacher' to make sure folks behavior. And while *most* folks would abide in a polite, dignified manner (as long as their basic needs were being met), it doesn't take many bad apples to flush an entire civilization.

Which is why I value the rights, freedoms and laws that we possess today that protect those freedoms.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 03:21 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
use the freeman arguement,and u may get off a parking ticket or speeding fine.u get a million people refusing to pay taxes,they'll make an example out of you.if u'd like an example of this watch cool hand luke.they'll break you.if u got the balls thats your cross to bare and thats what real men respect.you only live once

You can use the pokemon argument if you want. Unless the legal basis and terms you've defined are recognized by the law and the courts, its all just an excercise in your own personal opinion.

And enjoy. I'm not trying to tell folks they can't believe what they want to believe. I'm just trying to inject a little reality into the situation....and help folks recognize that while they believe something, the law doesn't actually change based on their belief.

It changes based on who they elect to office. Channel some of that energy into changing the laws by electing folks who share your values. They can enact change, if slowly.

But its infinitely better than the conspiracy circle jerk of like minded conspiracy theorists agreeing with each other about what the law is 'supposed' to mean.

Which is essentially meaningless. Sometimes I think boards like this exist to distract politically minded people from *actually* engaging in real world politics. But then I remember that I don't buy into conspiracy nonsense like that. And I play a little Skyrim.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 03:26 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
No, I won't go any further on the trust subject with you, other then this - Not a conspiracy, a universal principle, that can be twisted, but, never broken...

A 'universal principle', huh? Like the speed of light or orange cheeto fingers?

Well, I have no doubt you believe that. But I'm not convinced. Show me the evidence.
miserkocho2

User ID: 17809430
Australia
02/16/2013 03:30 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
imho its a logical progression,just as default contitutionalism was compromised and corrupted into what we see today,an interim political strategy would work toward restoring what we lost,but ultimately evolving towards a free self sufficient non centralised voluntaryists society.

*Blinking*

This doesn't look snarky at all! Give me a moment to shift gears.

<cracking my knuckles and screwing on my thinking hat>

There, all done. So where were we?

I think the problems with non-centralized v8oluntaryist society is the same problems with anarchy in general:

1) Lack of an effective system of conflict management





4) Unsustainability as leaders within the 'non-centralized voluntariyist' society would eventually devolve into factionalism.

5) Vulnerability to outside threats due to lack of organization
 Quoting: J 34504191


im sure you could find videos of stefan molyneux who could articulate it better than me but ill give it a shot.
1) Lack of an effective system of conflict management
when people polarize right and wrong there are almost always extenuating circumstances.thats the purpose of a well informed jury of peers to provide some flexibility to law.again i have absolutely no problem with the foundation of law and the intentions behind it.although im not religious,i find it hard to disagree with the 10 commandments or at least george carlins version.personally the 7 deadly sins is fine also but in a different context.ultimately it would be up to individual provinces,communities etc to test,eventually it may evolve into a more concetrated framework.things like contract law,u could have some mediation tribunal but a transparent information source and a less volatile monetary system,there's really no excuse.either way.an interim system will have to replace the lamestream media.
2) Difficulty creating major projects (bridges, roads, etc)
the problem with the monetary system is the creation of money,not to dilute the market and devalue the currency but to add something essential for the creater good.the money supply has to move with the population,thats one way.health care,there has to be a free market instrument that creates money to cater for it.i know that usually only leads to corruption but again,different information source.as far as maintenance,it should be up to communities to work together,but the major projects,well spent money generates wealth.free market principles apply but also its a completely different world no longer turning this pristine planet into a strip mall.
i gtg ill get back to the others
brought to you by carl's jnr.
CARLS JNR FUCK YOU,IM EATING!!
and Tarleton's cigarettes
IF YOU DONT SMOKE TARLETONS,FUCK YOU!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551129
Canada
02/16/2013 04:12 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
No, I won't go any further on the trust subject with you, other then this - Not a conspiracy, a universal principle, that can be twisted, but, never broken...

A 'universal principle', huh? Like the speed of light or orange cheeto fingers?

Well, I have no doubt you believe that. But I'm not convinced. Show me the evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504191


Nope, cannot show you the evidence...

To apply it properly, the evidence would not be left in your hands...Sort of like passing the hot potatoe...

Universal principle is the nature of existence...You are here for the experience, you own nothing...But, you share in common with everyone in the galaxy, the resources of the galaxy, and temporarily use of them...

I have my share based on weights and measures... If I go over that, by getting a charge, a non CAPITAL charge, I have to allow it pass through me for grounding on the public side, and I have to do it immediately...

It is all about balancing...

I know, I can read your mind - another sovereign "ilk" theory... No matter, I know what is what...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551129
Canada
02/16/2013 04:14 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
It's 4am here...

Need some sleep, catch up to you tomorrow...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1246378
United States
02/16/2013 07:29 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I stopped reading J's posts and now I find I have more free time to do other things hahaha. I've wasted so much time reading his dumbass posts which are 70 percent of the postings. Freedumb indeed...is this guy for real? hahahaha

J believes in the tooth fairy also hahaha

Hey J why does the deed to your house say tenant?

Also why does a homeowner pay property tax to the government (ooops I mean corporation)?

Watch his lameass answers..
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
02/16/2013 09:41 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I stopped reading J's posts and now I find I have more free time to do other things hahaha. I've wasted so much time reading his dumbass posts which are 70 percent of the postings. Freedumb indeed...is this guy for real? hahahaha

J believes in the tooth fairy also hahaha

Hey J why does the deed to your house say tenant?

Also why does a homeowner pay property tax to the government (ooops I mean corporation)?

Watch his lameass answers..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1246378


Actually, in the post above - "J" - finally gets rational and reveals he is capable of some depth of thought.

I wonder whether he has ever investigated Mondragon or Binary Economics...

How the commies stole the credit of a nation without proper bookkeeping...

Or, who originated communism and continues to support the model.

Yeah, slow and deliberate has some charm; balance of power and all that; I knew that. But the economic model is of critical importance and we left any true capitalism well before J was born.
 Quoting: J 34504191


This is sort of my idea of a joke; J didn't write any of the quoted material... Levi Philos

Recreate the model for money; recreate the social structure:
Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 49)
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 10:25 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I do not have any public trust. However, all my Trusts are recognized by Government.

There is one public trust I access and use to conduct business with the Government J worships at the alter of (with his own image on it, of course).

That trust was set up by His god government for public use, so thanks for that FDR!

As for the trust in his Government, it is fleeting and elastic since the Creator of all of it is an enemy to mankind and is bent on its destruction.

"CONGRESS DECLARES THE BIBLE “THE WORD OF GOD”. 97th Congress Joint Resolution [S.J.Res. 165] 96 Stat. 1211. Public Law 97-280."

While on paper and in law, the Government declares the Bible to be the Word of God, their trust is in Columbia.

Where your trust is, your heart is also.

I have known people to stand in open court and declare "I have no public trust, I do not recognize this court." They then walk out without a word of protest from the Captains bridge.

Frankly J seems like a trust fund kid who thinks he knows everything but in reality only knows that with money, people are easy to manipulate into agreeing with him. He also knows that with money to 'pay the man' the system works very well in defending him when his mouth writes checks on his ego account that he cannot back up physically.

Maybe not, maybe his is just a lonely prick who has to pay French Canadian whores to prove his manhood.

Do not really know, do not really care, I do not trust him or care how he lives his life, that is his right just as it is mine.

Trust or lack of it, easy to prove even in their courtSHIPS, no sovereign status needed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32235185
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02/16/2013 11:28 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I am my own ruler, anyone claiming jurisdiction over me can prove right now.

Nope. You're subject to our laws. If you're in our country, you'll abide our rules. If you violate them and we catch you, we'll punish you.

Remember, your agreement to our jurisdiction is irrelevant. As that's not a decision you get to make. But one *we* get to make.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504191
That's the reason I advise people to read Title 26 and fully understand every word. You've read the entire code right?
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 11:59 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Which is why I value the rights, freedoms and laws that we possess today that protect those freedoms.

Well, I have no doubt you believe that. But I'm not convinced. Show me the evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504191


Show me the evidence you have rights. I give you privileges and you mean to tell me you're read all the laws that exist today. If yes did you understand all the language?
J
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02/16/2013 12:08 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
J believes in the tooth fairy also hahaha

Nothing so dramatic. I just recognize the law and the courts are more legally authoritative than you, citing yourself.

And as the plethora of your ilk foolish enough to try to your pseudo-legal gibberish in court ending up in jail demonstrates..

....so does the law and the courts.
J
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02/16/2013 12:20 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

Actually, in the post above - "J" - finally gets rational and reveals he is capable of some depth of thought.



My reasoning in this thread is been pretty much the same from beginning to end: objective over subjective in the law. I side with the more objective....where law is established through legislative processes and adjudicated by the courts.

The sovereign citizen believes in the subjective. Where if they make up any pseudo-legal claim they'd like (font sizes on birth certificates, magical 'syntax' incantations, secret statuses, etc) that because they've imagined it, the law and the courts are bound to it.

Nope. You can imagine anything you'd like. But your subjective beliefs do not create objective law. Your imaginary loopholes and secret statuses don't have a thing to do with the law. They're your personal opinions. And when you present your personal opinion AS the law in court.....you generally see very poor outcomes.

If you want to make a legal argument, you need to cite the law and the courts. And overwhelmingly, both contradict you.

Which explains the abysmal record of the 'sovereign citizens' in the legal system.

Its not that complicated.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 12:28 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I am my own ruler, anyone claiming jurisdiction over me can prove right now.

Nope. You're subject to our laws. If you're in our country, you'll abide our rules. If you violate them and we catch you, we'll punish you.

Remember, your agreement to our jurisdiction is irrelevant. As that's not a decision you get to make. But one *we* get to make.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504191
That's the reason I advise people to read Title 26 and fully understand every word. You've read the entire code right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32235185



I guess J hasn't read all the laws. I hope he doesn't violate any of the laws because if we catch you, we will punish you.
J
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United States
02/16/2013 12:42 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
That's the reason I advise people to read Title 26 and fully understand every word. You've read the entire code right?

My study has focused on all the sections related to the filing and tax payment requirements….say, Title 26, § 6011 to about 6151. And many of the court cases in which 'sovereign citizens' have challenged those section insisting that there is no obligation to pay income taxes.

As Benson, Schiff, Carr, Brown and a litany of others learned....oh, there definitely is.

Remember, and this is fundamental: the pseudo-legal gibberish that you folks tell *each other* doesn't actually have any relevance to the law. As the 'legal principles' (ie: anything written in caps is a corporation or trust) and legal definitions (for example, that the US is only the district of Colombia), aren't recognized by the law or the courts.

So what's the use of a legal argument that you can't use in court?

Nothin'.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:51 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Also why does a homeowner pay property tax to the government (ooops I mean corporation)?

Sigh...I feel like a grown man kicking a puppy sometimes.

Um, the 'government' isn't a single monolythic entity. It has many distinct layers. The most obtuse being the difference between State and Federal. Ad valorem taxes are collected almost exclusively by State governments or local governments borrowing State authority.

Not by the Federal Government. While the feds have concurrent jurisdiction over every State, they don't collect property taxes within the States as a general rule.
J
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United States
02/16/2013 01:03 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Frankly J seems like a trust fund kid who thinks he knows everything but in reality only knows that with money, people are easy to manipulate into agreeing with him. He also knows that with money to 'pay the man' the system works very well in defending him when his mouth writes checks on his ego account that he cannot back up physically.

I'll add 'trust fund kid' to the elaborate and quite bizarre list you guys have made up for me. Lets see,according to the 'list', I'm a government agent, a paid shill of the government, a paid shill of the Southern Poverty Law Center, a paid shill for something called 'quatloos', an 'elite', a Jew (they were a little vague on the spelling), a member of the Illuminati, a communist, a socialist, or lawyer, a domestic terrorist, an IRS agent and oh wait.... a trust fund kid.

You sovereign citizen types do love your labels.

And folks are persuaded by my argument because it makes sense. The law and the courts are more authoritative on the law than you are, citing yourself.

And done!

Its persuasive because its true. The fact that its simple and self evident is just gravy.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 01:37 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Frankly J seems like a trust fund kid who thinks he knows everything but in reality only knows that with money, people are easy to manipulate into agreeing with him. He also knows that with money to 'pay the man' the system works very well in defending him when his mouth writes checks on his ego account that he cannot back up physically.

I'll add 'trust fund kid' to the elaborate and quite bizarre list you guys have made up for me. Lets see,according to the 'list', I'm a government agent, a paid shill of the government, a paid shill of the Southern Poverty Law Center, a paid shill for something called 'quatloos', an 'elite', a Jew (they were a little vague on the spelling), a member of the Illuminati, a communist, a socialist, or lawyer, a domestic terrorist, an IRS agent and oh wait.... a trust fund kid.

You sovereign citizen types do love your labels.

And folks are persuaded by my argument because it makes sense. The law and the courts are more authoritative on the law than you are, citing yourself.

And done!

Its persuasive because its true. The fact that its simple and self evident is just gravy.
 Quoting: J 34504191

No labels... just ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you break the law, we will punish you. So be careful who you may steal from. Also don't give me it's a legal form of transfer of wealth.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 01:40 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
No labels... just ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Clearly Title 26 doesn't say what your ilk think it does. As you consistently lose in court.

As yup, you are required to pay taxes.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32235185
United States
02/16/2013 01:47 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
No labels... just ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Clearly Title 26 doesn't say what your ilk think it does. As you consistently lose in court.

As yup, you are required to pay taxes.
 Quoting: J 34504191

Are you labeling me? You sound like a walking contradiction.
We catch you breaking the law we will punish you.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 02:01 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
No labels... just ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Clearly Title 26 doesn't say what your ilk think it does. As you consistently lose in court.

As yup, you are required to pay taxes.
 Quoting: J 34504191

Are you labeling me? You sound like a walking contradiction.
We catch you breaking the law we will punish you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32235185


Seems you recognize that the law is authoritative, and you citing yourself aren't.

You can be taught!

Just remember that if ever the 'sovereign citizen' folks try to find a new sacrificial lamb to test out their latest pseudo-legal gibberish. As these guys are *big* into bold declaration and false bravado....on the internet.

But they won't actually test these theories themselves in the real world. They might try and convince you to test them in their stead however.

Its probably not a good idea to let them talk you into being another Ed or Elaine Brown, another Schiff, Brown or Carr. As these poor, stupid bastards aren't diggin' prison.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 02:17 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
No labels... just ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Clearly Title 26 doesn't say what your ilk think it does. As you consistently lose in court.

As yup, you are required to pay taxes.
 Quoting: J 34504191

Are you labeling me? You sound like a walking contradiction.
We catch you breaking the law we will punish you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32235185


Seems you recognize that the law is authoritative, and you citing yourself aren't.

You can be taught!

Just remember that if ever the 'sovereign citizen' folks try to find a new sacrificial lamb to test out their latest pseudo-legal gibberish. As these guys are *big* into bold declaration and false bravado....on the internet.

But they won't actually test these theories themselves in the real world. They might try and convince you to test them in their stead however.

Its probably not a good idea to let them talk you into being another Ed or Elaine Brown, another Schiff, Brown or Carr. As these poor, stupid bastards aren't diggin' prison.
 Quoting: J 34504191

Don't steal or you'll be in their with your friends, Ed, Elaine, Schiff, and oothers.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551129
Canada
02/16/2013 02:25 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Here is an interesting fact;

The U.S. has the distinction of being the NUMBER 1 country, that has the highest percentage of their population behind bars...

For a so-called freedom formed country, the record tells a different story...

There is plenty of profit obviously, in keeping the majority of the country dumbed down, while those in the know, reap the benefits...

A very unbalanced state of affairs...
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 02:26 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
on't steal or you'll be in their with your friends, Ed, Elaine, Schiff, and oothers.

Yeah, those poor stupid bastards. Folks like me tried to warn them that all the made up nonsense forwarded by the 'sovereign citizen' folks was useless flotsam.

But they didn't listen. And this morning they had their breakfast served to them through a slot in the door.

While the 'sovereign citizen' folks may believe that whatever silly theories they come up with somehow binds the courts......the courts don't. And this is the grand disconnect. Between what the sovereign citizens *say* is the law. And what the law *actually* is.

The record of failure is so overwhelming, that most of the 'sovereign citizen' folks who are so brave in their declarations *online*, won't dare test their theories in real life.

But they might try to convince you to test the theories for them....knowing full well that you'll most likely go to jail.

But better you than them, right?
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 02:30 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The U.S. has the distinction of being the NUMBER 1 country, that has the highest percentage of their population behind bars...

For a so-called freedom formed country, the record tells a different story...

There is plenty of profit obviously, in keeping the majority of the country dumbed down, while those in the know, reap the benefits...

A very unbalanced state of affairs..


You know what...that's a reasonable criticism of the US. And it didn't require a secret handshake, a special code, a certain font type or some secret status.

Nice. See guys...its entirely possible to have a reasonable discussion about the state of affairs in the US without taking a long, desperate draught of conspiracy hooch before you do.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 775670
United States
02/16/2013 02:34 PM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
No labels... just ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Clearly Title 26 doesn't say what your ilk think it does. As you consistently lose in court.

As yup, you are required to pay taxes.
 Quoting: J 34504191

Are you labeling me? You sound like a walking contradiction.
We catch you breaking the law we will punish you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32235185


i haven't paid taxes since 1998...and why would I?

The Government isn't so much as protecting Me with those taxes as ensuring my compliance to a suicidal imperialistic system.

well, sales taxes i do pay except i kind of consider that a Salad Bar Grazing Fee when i shop at Whole Foods or Contribution to a Dumpster Diving Licence when i frequent Trader Joe's or just a Loss Prevention Penalty Fee for Five Finger Discounts such as Vitamins Batteries Chocolate and Merlot and the Stuff I Return with found sales receipts, etc.

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