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Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33158032
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02/13/2013 08:30 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I really don't know much about this subject. Is this a genuine description of these people of just the M.S.M. demonizing them?

From Kfor TV out of Oklahoma:

"Law enforcement is paying special attention to a re-surging group of individual extremists; sovereign citizens.

They are anti-government Americans who believe the U.S. government has no authority".


snip

"The world-wide web has been a handy tool in sovereign circles, spreading tactics of their particular flavor of lawlessness.

Sovereign citizens usually represent themselves in court, filing nonsensical paperwork on their own behalf.

Many sovereigns document their struggles to be taken seriously, then post them online.

They rarely have much success."


snip

“What I understand people in some of these cases are doing is making the argument that the original constitutional order left people free from the authority of the federal government and maybe from laws at the state level as well,” Blitz said. “So (they say) ‘You can’t apply these laws to me.’ Not surprisingly, the judges have said, ‘Yes we can.’”

Full article with video:

[link to kfor.com]
 Quoting: Zuzu


You are NOT AN EXTREMIST if you do not agree with being a subject property corporation of the illegal United States corporation that has sold you out to the illegal Federal Reserve Corporation and routinely uses the illegal private IRS corporation to destroy your life if you resist these poisonous illegal corporations.

Free citizens are freemen who are people and not corporations.

The TV station demonizing freemen is a corporation. WAKE UP!!! LEARN THE TRUTH!!!
Zuzu (OP)
Not to be confused with the demon Zuzu

User ID: 24583969
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02/13/2013 08:49 AM

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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I really don't know much about this subject. Is this a genuine description of these people of just the M.S.M. demonizing them?

From Kfor TV out of Oklahoma:

"Law enforcement is paying special attention to a re-surging group of individual extremists; sovereign citizens.

They are anti-government Americans who believe the U.S. government has no authority".


snip

"The world-wide web has been a handy tool in sovereign circles, spreading tactics of their particular flavor of lawlessness.

Sovereign citizens usually represent themselves in court, filing nonsensical paperwork on their own behalf.

Many sovereigns document their struggles to be taken seriously, then post them online.

They rarely have much success."


snip

“What I understand people in some of these cases are doing is making the argument that the original constitutional order left people free from the authority of the federal government and maybe from laws at the state level as well,” Blitz said. “So (they say) ‘You can’t apply these laws to me.’ Not surprisingly, the judges have said, ‘Yes we can.’”

Full article with video:

[link to kfor.com]
 Quoting: Zuzu


You are NOT AN EXTREMIST if you do not agree with being a subject property corporation of the illegal United States corporation that has sold you out to the illegal Federal Reserve Corporation and routinely uses the illegal private IRS corporation to destroy your life if you resist these poisonous illegal corporations.

Free citizens are freemen who are people and not corporations.

The TV station demonizing freemen is a corporation. WAKE UP!!! LEARN THE TRUTH!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33158032


I’m still a little bit sleepy but I am waking up a bit more every day. I have to give a great deal of credit to GLP and the many great posters here for opening my eyes.coffee4
If you leave karma please leave your name as well so that I may reciprocate.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 08:52 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
"and my understanding is the few that have tried the sovreign citizen stance in court do not understand the law or correct syntax and usually purger themselves."

Its my understanding that the 'sovereign citizen' argument is useless idiocy based on a series of fallacious assumptions that have no relevance to the law or the world that actual people live in...and has a near perfect record of failure in the courts. Its not 'syntax'. Its an argument that simple doesn't work nor make the slightest sense.

There's no 'secret status' that magically makes people exempt from all law. There never has been. Declaring yourself a 'sovereign citizen' has no more legal relevance than insisting you're Santa Claus. The law applies just the same either way.
 Quoting: J 34311994


bsflagbsflagbsflagbsflag another ignorant idiot talkng out of his ass
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 08:52 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?




[/youtube] [link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 08:53 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Forgot to log in,,,

Remember this statement,,,
"Words are the law,,,and the law is words.

Their system is all about convolution and the IMPLIED (their implied) definitions of words and the hidden meanings behind those words.

Don't believe me?

Get a BLACKS LAW DICTIONARY,, and see for yourself.

IMPLIED CONSENT,,, = when you do NOT answer,,

This is a VERY deep rabbit hole indeed,,, but there IS light at the bottom.

Idol1
 Quoting: Hitndahedfred


Silence is acceptance of offer. That is exactly why they inform you of your "right to remain silent" it gives them open consent.

I control the record and only the record matters, I do not have a "legal name" and there is no law (or statute) that requires me to have one, nor do I accept any name they try to TITLE me with, John DOE, Mister, Sir, Sovereign, US Citizen, YOU, defendant.

Since I do not have a legal name, I am incapable of complying with their rules for ID, licenses, permission slips, numbers, Date of BIRTHING on their ship, slave status.

Without positive ID and consent or a living victim of injury to body or property, their case cannot float.

Done it so many times its not even fun any more.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 08:54 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
A certificate is a "paper establishing an ownership claim." - Barron's Dictionary of Banking Terms. Registration of births began in 1915, by the Bureau of Census, with all states adopting the practice by 1933.

Birth and marriage certificates are a form of securities called "warehouse receipts." The items included on a warehouse receipt, as descried at §7-202 of the Uniform Commercial Code, the law which governs commercial paper and transactions, which parallel a birth or marriage certificate are:

-the location of the warehouse where the goods are stored...(residence)
-the date of issue of the receipt.....("Date issued")
-the consecutive number of the receipt...(found on back or front of the certificate, usually in red numbers)
-a description of the goods or of the packages containing them...(name, sex, date of birth, etc.)
-the signature of the warehouseman, which may be made by his authorized agent...(municipal clerk or state registrar's signature)
Birth/marriage certificates now appear to at least qualify as "warehouse receipts" under the Uniform Commercial Code. Black's Law Dictionary, 7th ed. defines:

warehouse receipt. "...A warehouse receipt, which is considered a document of title, may be a negotiable instrument and is often used for financing with inventory as security."

Since the U.S. went bankrupt in 1933, all new money has to be borrowed into existence. All states started issuing serial-numbered, certificated "warehouse receipts" for births and marriages in order to pledge us as collateral against those loans and municipal bonds taken out with the Federal Reserve's banks. The "Full faith and Credit" of the American people is said to be that which back the nation's debt. That simply means the American people's ability to labor and pay back that debt. In order to catalog its laborers, the government needed an efficient, methodical system of tracking its property to that end. Humans today are looked upon merely as resources - "human resources," that is.

Governmental assignment of a dollar value to the heads of citizens began on July 14, 1862 when President Lincoln offered 6 percent interest bearing-bonds to states who freed their slaves on a "per head" basis. This practice of valuating humans (cattle?) continues today with our current system of debt-based currency reliant upon a steady stream of fresh new chattels to back it.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 08:56 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
If you want to learn the facts, that are working and why, study this thread

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul


It will change your standing if you can get over the programming.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 09:02 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I really don't know much about this subject. Is this a genuine description of these people of just the M.S.M. demonizing them?

From Kfor TV out of Oklahoma:

"Law enforcement is paying special attention to a re-surging group of individual extremists; sovereign citizens.

They are anti-government Americans who believe the U.S. government has no authority".


snip

"The world-wide web has been a handy tool in sovereign circles, spreading tactics of their particular flavor of lawlessness.

Sovereign citizens usually represent themselves in court, filing nonsensical paperwork on their own behalf.

Many sovereigns document their struggles to be taken seriously, then post them online.

They rarely have much success."


snip

“What I understand people in some of these cases are doing is making the argument that the original constitutional order left people free from the authority of the federal government and maybe from laws at the state level as well,” Blitz said. “So (they say) ‘You can’t apply these laws to me.’ Not surprisingly, the judges have said, ‘Yes we can.’”

Full article with video:

[link to kfor.com]
 Quoting: Zuzu


The contract with the people was the Constitution, and it is government who has destroyed their own authority. I'm not a "sovereign" anything, but what we have now is a nation of laws ruled by outlaws, and a president ruling by Tyrannical decrees passed down to us as if we are children.

Without the Constitution there is no government, so the question should be.


"Free People are paying special attention to a re-surging group of individual extremists, unconstitutional Government agents. They are anti-constitutional Government public servants who believe they are above the constitution and that it has no authority".
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 09:08 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I really don't know much about this subject. Is this a genuine description of these people of just the M.S.M. demonizing them?

From Kfor TV out of Oklahoma:

"Law enforcement is paying special attention to a re-surging group of individual extremists; sovereign citizens.

They are anti-government Americans who believe the U.S. government has no authority".


snip

"The world-wide web has been a handy tool in sovereign circles, spreading tactics of their particular flavor of lawlessness.

Sovereign citizens usually represent themselves in court, filing nonsensical paperwork on their own behalf.

Many sovereigns document their struggles to be taken seriously, then post them online.

They rarely have much success."


snip

“What I understand people in some of these cases are doing is making the argument that the original constitutional order left people free from the authority of the federal government and maybe from laws at the state level as well,” Blitz said. “So (they say) ‘You can’t apply these laws to me.’ Not surprisingly, the judges have said, ‘Yes we can.’”

Full article with video:

[link to kfor.com]
 Quoting: Zuzu


The contract with the people was the Constitution, and it is government who has destroyed their own authority. I'm not a "sovereign" anything, but what we have now is a nation of laws ruled by outlaws, and a president ruling by Tyrannical decrees passed down to us as if we are children.

Without the Constitution there is no government, so the question should be.


"Free People are paying special attention to a re-surging group of individual extremists, unconstitutional Government agents. They are anti-constitutional Government public servants who believe they are above the constitution and that it has no authority".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34319433


"The world-wide web has been a handy tool in sovereign circles, spreading tactics of their particular flavor of lawlessness.

Sovereign citizens usually represent themselves in court, filing nonsensical paperwork on their own behalf.

Many sovereigns document their struggles to be taken seriously, then post them online.

They rarely have much success."

"The main-stream-media has been a handy tool for unconstitutional public servants, spreading their lies and not exposing any of their tactics especially their particular flavor of lawlessness.

Unconstituional servants usually represent the New World Order, the banks, and globalist masters in court, filing nonsensical paperwork on their own behalves.

Many unconstitutional servants go on main stream media to let them pain their struggles for a globalist take over to be taken seriously and lawful, then send it out to your tel-u-a-vision.

They are achieving much success."
SovereignDirt
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02/13/2013 09:15 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Trying to save you all a bunch of time: No such thing as a sovereign citizen. No such thing as a state other than OF YOUR MIND. Only one question to ask yourselves and the cops, and the prosecutor, and the judge... "What facts do you rely on to prove that THAT LAW applies to me?" It's that simple, there are no facts, only opinion(s). Try it. Watch heads cock sideways like a dog that just heard a strange sound. You can find out more but checking out MARC STEVENS.

[link to marcstevens.net]

check out the "CALLS OF SHAME" for a quick analysis.
burnit
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
02/13/2013 09:20 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Silence is acceptance of offer. That is exactly why they inform you of your "right to remain silent" it gives them open consent.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


I thought the smart thing was to never talk to the police. What's your opinion on that?
Zuzu (OP)
Not to be confused with the demon Zuzu

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02/13/2013 09:21 AM

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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
"The main-stream-media has been a handy tool for unconstitutional public servants, spreading their lies and not exposing any of their tactics especially their particular flavor of lawlessness.[/quote]

I absolutely agree with you on this point. The MSM is the greatest weapon to be used against this country. Frankly I get more accurate and updated news on this site then from all of the main stream media put together. (Of course I don’t believe anything blindly regardless of were I find it)
If you leave karma please leave your name as well so that I may reciprocate.
Learn and be free
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02/13/2013 09:38 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Actually the term "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoran. You cannot be sovereign and a citizen at the same time, they are two different classes of voluntary status. Acting as a sovereign you retain the protection of the constitution while acting as a U.S. citizen you are subject to statutory law. You cannot be sovereign while still using state issued identification of any kind, this includes business licenses, driver licenses, a social security number etc... All state issued identification needs to be cancelled and rebutted within the government record for you to have actual evidence supporting your claim of sovereignty. Check out sedm.org for further information, it is the only source that I find trustworthy and will answer every question you may have, all others are missing important pieces of the puzzle.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 09:44 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
sovereigns are people that understand how the counrty was set up with law to treat each person as a king in the land -

law enforcement doesn't like truth. the truth is americans rights have been usurped with a fascist coup de tat of satanist that worship burning owls and shit

if you get it - you are a sovereign becuase you recognize an corrupt spiritless system and chose not to contract with it - so you are a terrorist to the state - sovereign -0 whatever label you want to demonize people with to use force to support your evil
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 09:48 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Silence is acceptance of offer. That is exactly why they inform you of your "right to remain silent" it gives them open consent.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


I thought the smart thing was to never talk to the police. What's your opinion on that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33610307


You do not "talk to the police" you control the record. If everything you say can and will be used against you, that means make sure everything you say is used against them.

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

Read that thread, I am not going to rewrite the whole thing here. It has a lifetimes worth of education in it and will answer your questions.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 09:49 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Actually the term "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoran. You cannot be sovereign and a citizen at the same time, they are two different classes of voluntary status. Acting as a sovereign you retain the protection of the constitution while acting as a U.S. citizen you are subject to statutory law. You cannot be sovereign while still using state issued identification of any kind, this includes business licenses, driver licenses, a social security number etc... All state issued identification needs to be cancelled and rebutted within the government record for you to have actual evidence supporting your claim of sovereignty. Check out sedm.org for further information, it is the only source that I find trustworthy and will answer every question you may have, all others are missing important pieces of the puzzle.
 Quoting: Learn and be free 9709575


There might be an interesting and very important exception...

Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 09:55 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The answer to all the questions are in the MONEY.

You cannot be sovereign and use the money of a private quasi-Federal Corporation.

You cannot be using Federal Reserve Debt and claiming the rights of common law, since it violates the law of the land.

The reason Paper money floats is because it is money of the SEA (commercial paper) all Statutes, policies and acts are maritime in nature and they have to float, that is why without a recorded and accepted demand for lawful money, all the "sovereign" law of the land arguments fail in commercial courts, they do NOT FLOAT.

You are not on the land (above the high water mark) if you are not demanding lawful money of the people.

ALWAYS follow the money. 1933 was the High Water mark for the US Debt scam read this thread or drown at sea:

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
miserkocho2

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02/13/2013 09:56 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
its the constitution and the jurisdiction of the corporatist state is invalid because they stole the land and comitted genocide against the native people.sovereign peoples on their homeland are native reguardless of race.your either free or ur not.
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Zuzu (OP)
Not to be confused with the demon Zuzu

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02/13/2013 09:57 AM

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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Actually the term "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoran. You cannot be sovereign and a citizen at the same time, they are two different classes of voluntary status. Acting as a sovereign you retain the protection of the constitution while acting as a U.S. citizen you are subject to statutory law. You cannot be sovereign while still using state issued identification of any kind, this includes business licenses, driver licenses, a social security number etc... All state issued identification needs to be cancelled and rebutted within the government record for you to have actual evidence supporting your claim of sovereignty. Check out sedm.org for further information, it is the only source that I find trustworthy and will answer every question you may have, all others are missing important pieces of the puzzle.
 Quoting: Learn and be free 9709575


I’m going to take a look at the site you mentioned in a moment and it may answer these questions but here goes.

I wasn’t aware that you could cancel your social security card. I’ve always thought that unless you were in witness protection or something of that sort that it was your permanent identifier.

What I can’t seem to comprehend is how a person could survive in this day and age without all of the things you listed. Would you just find work that was “under the table” so that you could feed your family? Would you continue to drive an unregistered vehicle with no license knowing you would be arrested if pulled over? I don’t think it likely that a police officer or a judge is going to say “ Oh, okay you’re a Sovereign citizens you can just go free now.” Rather you agree with the judge or not you are still going to spend time in jail witch by the way will cause you to be issued a new state identifier with the DOC.


I understand why some people would want to take this path. In theory it seems a lot more American that the America that we live in. But like the laws or not, this is where we have to survive.

I’m not trying to belittle or ridicule any ones stance on this issue I’m just trying to better understand how this could be done.

In theory I find that this idea compelling but in practice it seems nearly impossible.hf
If you leave karma please leave your name as well so that I may reciprocate.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 10:03 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Actually the term "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoran. You cannot be sovereign and a citizen at the same time, they are two different classes of voluntary status. Acting as a sovereign you retain the protection of the constitution while acting as a U.S. citizen you are subject to statutory law. You cannot be sovereign while still using state issued identification of any kind, this includes business licenses, driver licenses, a social security number etc... All state issued identification needs to be cancelled and rebutted within the government record for you to have actual evidence supporting your claim of sovereignty. Check out sedm.org for further information, it is the only source that I find trustworthy and will answer every question you may have, all others are missing important pieces of the puzzle.
 Quoting: Learn and be free 9709575


There might be an interesting and very important exception...


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33610307


The States are subject to the US commercial government and operating under the same bankruptcy, to declare (falsely) that you are a "State of XXXXXX citizen is no different than a US Citizen and chattel property of the STATE.

The guy in the video did nothing but subject himself to the government in telling them he was a State Citizen.

Also, if he "paid" for his passport with fiat currency (by endorsing the Federal Reserve Notes he paid with) he did nothing of any value.

They issued the passport on their terms and he subjected himself to their jurisdiction.

All your answers are here:

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

Read it or keep getting pushed around like a ship without a rudder on the open sea of commercial laws and half truths.

Always follow the money.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 10:05 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I believe that Obamacare only applies to US citizens and that's specifically written in the law. That means that non-resident aliens (including Sovereigns) are exempt from Obamacare.

Does anyone know the answer?
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 10:05 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Actually the term "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoran. You cannot be sovereign and a citizen at the same time, they are two different classes of voluntary status. Acting as a sovereign you retain the protection of the constitution while acting as a U.S. citizen you are subject to statutory law. You cannot be sovereign while still using state issued identification of any kind, this includes business licenses, driver licenses, a social security number etc... All state issued identification needs to be cancelled and rebutted within the government record for you to have actual evidence supporting your claim of sovereignty. Check out sedm.org for further information, it is the only source that I find trustworthy and will answer every question you may have, all others are missing important pieces of the puzzle.
 Quoting: Learn and be free 9709575


I’m going to take a look at the site you mentioned in a moment and it may answer these questions but here goes.

I wasn’t aware that you could cancel your social security card. I’ve always thought that unless you were in witness protection or something of that sort that it was your permanent identifier.

What I can’t seem to comprehend is how a person could survive in this day and age without all of the things you listed. Would you just find work that was “under the table” so that you could feed your family? Would you continue to drive an unregistered vehicle with no license knowing you would be arrested if pulled over? I don’t think it likely that a police officer or a judge is going to say “ Oh, okay you’re a Sovereign citizens you can just go free now.” Rather you agree with the judge or not you are still going to spend time in jail witch by the way will cause you to be issued a new state identifier with the DOC.


I understand why some people would want to take this path. In theory it seems a lot more American that the America that we live in. But like the laws or not, this is where we have to survive.

I’m not trying to belittle or ridicule any ones stance on this issue I’m just trying to better understand how this could be done.

In theory I find that this idea compelling but in practice it seems nearly impossible.hf
 Quoting: Zuzu


You cannot under-stand it because it is nearly impossible (I know because I did it for many years).

You need to learn to control your contract endorsements, just like any major business owner does. You need to learn some law.

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

Start there and you will get the education you seek, if you really want it.

Always follow the money.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 10:07 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Actually the term "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoran. You cannot be sovereign and a citizen at the same time, they are two different classes of voluntary status. Acting as a sovereign you retain the protection of the constitution while acting as a U.S. citizen you are subject to statutory law. You cannot be sovereign while still using state issued identification of any kind, this includes business licenses, driver licenses, a social security number etc... All state issued identification needs to be cancelled and rebutted within the government record for you to have actual evidence supporting your claim of sovereignty. Check out sedm.org for further information, it is the only source that I find trustworthy and will answer every question you may have, all others are missing important pieces of the puzzle.
 Quoting: Learn and be free 9709575


There might be an interesting and very important exception...


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33610307


The States are subject to the US commercial government and operating under the same bankruptcy, to declare (falsely) that you are a "State of XXXXXX citizen is no different than a US Citizen and chattel property of the STATE.

The guy in the video did nothing but subject himself to the government in telling them he was a State Citizen.

Also, if he "paid" for his passport with fiat currency (by endorsing the Federal Reserve Notes he paid with) he did nothing of any value.

They issued the passport on their terms and he subjected himself to their jurisdiction.

All your answers are here:

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

Read it or keep getting pushed around like a ship without a rudder on the open sea of commercial laws and half truths.

Always follow the money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


So then, there's no way to get a US passport as a Sovereign who was born in the USA?
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 10:10 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I believe that Obamacare only applies to US citizens and that's specifically written in the law. That means that non-resident aliens (including Sovereigns) are exempt from Obamacare.

Does anyone know the answer?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33610307


Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

I know the answer, but I am not going to give it to you, figure it out for yourself, that is part of the problem, you are not willing to put in your own work and even read the thread I have posted with the answers.

Sovereign means "self-ruling" asking someone else for answers you can find yourself (I have shown you where to look) is the mindset and heart of one who needs to be governed, not a self ruling man or woman.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 10:13 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I believe that Obamacare only applies to US citizens and that's specifically written in the law. That means that non-resident aliens (including Sovereigns) are exempt from Obamacare.

Does anyone know the answer?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33610307


Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

I know the answer, but I am not going to give it to you, figure it out for yourself, that is part of the problem, you are not willing to put in your own work and even read the thread I have posted with the answers.

Sovereign means "self-ruling" asking someone else for answers you can find yourself (I have shown you where to look) is the mindset and heart of one who needs to be governed, not a self ruling man or woman.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


I wasn't asking you specifically.

As a matter of fact, I was hoping that this issue would help lead to clarification for others.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/13/2013 10:13 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Actually the term "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoran. You cannot be sovereign and a citizen at the same time, they are two different classes of voluntary status. Acting as a sovereign you retain the protection of the constitution while acting as a U.S. citizen you are subject to statutory law. You cannot be sovereign while still using state issued identification of any kind, this includes business licenses, driver licenses, a social security number etc... All state issued identification needs to be cancelled and rebutted within the government record for you to have actual evidence supporting your claim of sovereignty. Check out sedm.org for further information, it is the only source that I find trustworthy and will answer every question you may have, all others are missing important pieces of the puzzle.
 Quoting: Learn and be free 9709575


There might be an interesting and very important exception...


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33610307


The States are subject to the US commercial government and operating under the same bankruptcy, to declare (falsely) that you are a "State of XXXXXX citizen is no different than a US Citizen and chattel property of the STATE.

The guy in the video did nothing but subject himself to the government in telling them he was a State Citizen.

Also, if he "paid" for his passport with fiat currency (by endorsing the Federal Reserve Notes he paid with) he did nothing of any value.

They issued the passport on their terms and he subjected himself to their jurisdiction.

All your answers are here:

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

Read it or keep getting pushed around like a ship without a rudder on the open sea of commercial laws and half truths.

Always follow the money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


So then, there's no way to get a US passport as a Sovereign who was born in the USA?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33610307


Born IN the USA? I have no proof I was born in the USA nor does anyone else.

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
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02/13/2013 10:18 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I believe that Obamacare only applies to US citizens and that's specifically written in the law. That means that non-resident aliens (including Sovereigns) are exempt from Obamacare.

Does anyone know the answer?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33610307


Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

I know the answer, but I am not going to give it to you, figure it out for yourself, that is part of the problem, you are not willing to put in your own work and even read the thread I have posted with the answers.

Sovereign means "self-ruling" asking someone else for answers you can find yourself (I have shown you where to look) is the mindset and heart of one who needs to be governed, not a self ruling man or woman.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


I wasn't asking you specifically.

As a matter of fact, I was hoping that this issue would help lead to clarification for others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33610307


The thread I linked with lead to clarification, why are you still asking when you have not read that thread?

I will put it simply for you, if you are NOT demanding lawful money as provided for in law (yes, even in Canada) you ARE subject to the commercial US or Canadian bankruptcy and all of its entrapment's of "commerce".

That is why ALL the Sovereign Citizen (including teamlaw) falls flat on its face in a commercial court, their money, their commercial courts.

There is your answer, if you do not want to know more, do not read this thread:

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20179835
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02/13/2013 10:27 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The Constitution is a contract with the people and the federal government. If the federal government breaks the contract, then the contract is void. It is as simple as that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24760791


Since none of u seem to know what the h-ll u are talking about ill chime in.
First the Constitution is not a contract it is a trust arrangement written by “We the People” making the government trustees. (Read the Preamble)

As expressed otherwise, the powers delegated to a public officer are held in trust for the people and are to be exercised in behalf of the government or of all citizens who may need the intervention of the officer. [1] Furthermore, the view has been expressed that all public officers, within whatever branch and whatever level of government, and whatever be their private vocations, are trustees of the people, and accordingly labor under every disability and prohibition imposed by law upon trustees relative to the making of personal financial gain from a discharge of their trusts. [2] That is, a public officer occupies a fiduciary relationship to the political entity on whose behalf he or she serves. [3] and owes a fiduciary duty to the public. [4] It has been said that the fiduciary responsibilities of a public officer cannot be less than those of a private individual. [5] Furthermore, it has been stated that any enterprise undertaken by the public official which tends to weaken public confidence and undermine the sense of security for individual rights is against public policy.[6]”
63C Am.Jur.2d, Public Officers and Employees, §247


Second most do not realize that is basic understanding in law that the people are self governing just like the US GOV. ( a federal corporation) is self governing
28 USC § 3002 - DEFINITIONS
(15)“United States” means—
(A)a Federal corporation;
[link to www.law.cornell.edu]

The people are self governing by the common law, grand juries, indictments, jury trials.

The gov. is self governed by rules, regulation, codes, statutes, and administrative courts (this is what most are referring to when they talk about maritime law.)

Statutes only apply to government

There are two worlds going on at the same time. The question then is what world were u in at the time of any compliant.

The idea prevails with some, indeed it has expression in arguments at the bar, that we have in this country substantially two national governments; one to be maintained under the Constitution, with all its restrictions; the other to be maintained by Congress outside and independently of that instrument, by exercising such powers as other nations of the earth are accustomed to... I take leave to say that, if the principles thus announced should ever receive the sanction of a majority of this court, a radical and mischievous change in our system will result. We will, in that event, pass from the era of constitutional liberty guarded and protected by a written constitution into an era of legislative absolutism... It will be an evil day for American Liberty if the theory of a government outside the Supreme Law of the Land finds lodgment in our Constitutional Jurisprudence. No higher duty rests upon this court than to exert its full authority to prevent all violation of the principles of the Constitution.”
DOWNES v. BIDWELL, 182 U.S. 244 (1901)

If the constitution is the supreme law of the land and only applies to government, what makes u think that anything below that applies to anything but the government? There are no such things as constitutional rights, ur rights come from god so read your bible, the constitution merely recognizes what is already known to be true.

The restrictions that the Constitution places upon the government in its capacity as lawmaker, i.e., as the regulator of private conduct, are not the same as the restrictions that it places upon the government in its capacity as employer. We have recognized this in many contexts, with respect to many different constitutional guarantees. Private citizens perhaps cannot be prevented from wearing long hair, but policemen can. Kelley v. Johnson, 425 U.S. 238, 247 (1976). Private citizens cannot have their property searched without probable cause, but in many circumstances government employees can. O'Connor v. Ortega, 480 U.S. 709, 723 (1987) (plurality opinion); id., at 732 (SCALIA, J., concurring in judgment). Private citizens cannot be punished for refusing to provide the government information that may incriminate them, but government employees can be dismissed when the incriminating information that they refuse to provide relates to the performance of their job. Gardner v. Broderick, [497 U.S. 62, 95] 392 U.S. 273, 277 -278 (1968). With regard to freedom of speech in particular: Private citizens cannot be punished for speech of merely private concern, but government employees can be fired for that reason. Connick v. Myers, 461 U.S. 138, 147 (1983). Private citizens cannot be punished for partisan political activity, but federal and state employees can be dismissed and otherwise punished for that reason. Public Workers v. Mitchell, 330 U.S. 75, 101 (1947); Civil Service Comm'n v. Letter Carriers, 413 U.S. 548, 556 (1973); Broadrick v. Oklahoma, 413 U.S. 601, 616 -617 (1973).”
RUTAN v. REPUBLICAN PARTY OF ILLINOIS, 497 U.S. 62 (1990)

Public trustees (government employees) are not protected by the constitution which is why constitution arguments cannot be made in administrative courts.

The TPTB learned a long time ago that forcing people into slavery didn’t work well, so they made the people free(sovereign) and used the masses stupidly against them to get them to contract themselves back into slavery.

I’ll finish with what sovereign actually means.
-Blacks Law 2nd Edition
Sovereign- a chief ruler with supreme power, a king or other ruler with limited power

“Sovereignty itself is, of course, not subject to law, for it is the author and source of law; but in our system, while sovereign powers are delegated to the agencies of government, sovereignty itself remains with the people, by whom and for whom all government exists and acts”
YICK WO v. HOPKINS, 118 U.S. 356 (1886)

"at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people, and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects (unless the African slaves among us may be so called), and have none to govern but themselves; the citizens of America are equal as fellow citizens, and as joint tenants in the sovereignty."
Chisholm v. Georgia - 2 U.S. 419 (1793)

Resources for further study:
-sedm.org
-1215.org
-teamlaw.org
-Rob Menard
-Dean Clifford (who is currently being held in jail as a political prisoner)
Zuzu (OP)
Not to be confused with the demon Zuzu

User ID: 24583969
United States
02/13/2013 10:31 AM

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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Actually the term "sovereign citizen" is an oxymoran. You cannot be sovereign and a citizen at the same time, they are two different classes of voluntary status. Acting as a sovereign you retain the protection of the constitution while acting as a U.S. citizen you are subject to statutory law. You cannot be sovereign while still using state issued identification of any kind, this includes business licenses, driver licenses, a social security number etc... All state issued identification needs to be cancelled and rebutted within the government record for you to have actual evidence supporting your claim of sovereignty. Check out sedm.org for further information, it is the only source that I find trustworthy and will answer every question you may have, all others are missing important pieces of the puzzle.
 Quoting: Learn and be free 9709575


I’m going to take a look at the site you mentioned in a moment and it may answer these questions but here goes.

I wasn’t aware that you could cancel your social security card. I’ve always thought that unless you were in witness protection or something of that sort that it was your permanent identifier.

What I can’t seem to comprehend is how a person could survive in this day and age without all of the things you listed. Would you just find work that was “under the table” so that you could feed your family? Would you continue to drive an unregistered vehicle with no license knowing you would be arrested if pulled over? I don’t think it likely that a police officer or a judge is going to say “ Oh, okay you’re a Sovereign citizens you can just go free now.” Rather you agree with the judge or not you are still going to spend time in jail witch by the way will cause you to be issued a new state identifier with the DOC.


I understand why some people would want to take this path. In theory it seems a lot more American that the America that we live in. But like the laws or not, this is where we have to survive.

I’m not trying to belittle or ridicule any ones stance on this issue I’m just trying to better understand how this could be done.

In theory I find that this idea compelling but in practice it seems nearly impossible.hf
 Quoting: Zuzu


You cannot under-stand it because it is nearly impossible (I know because I did it for many years).

You need to learn to control your contract endorsements, just like any major business owner does. You need to learn some law.

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

Start there and you will get the education you seek, if you really want it.

Always follow the money.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31297288


Thank you for sharing the link I'm bookmarking it so that I can read it when I get up. Bedtime for me.zzzz
If you leave karma please leave your name as well so that I may reciprocate.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/13/2013 10:32 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
The Constitution is a contract with the people and the federal government. If the federal government breaks the contract, then the contract is void. It is as simple as that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24760791


Since none of u seem to know what the h-ll u are talking about ill chime in.
First the Constitution is not a contract it is a trust arrangement written by “We the People” making the government trustees. (Read the Preamble)

As expressed otherwise, the powers delegated to a public officer are held in trust for the people and are to be exercised in behalf of the government or of all citizens who may need the intervention of the officer. [1] Furthermore, the view has been expressed that all public officers, within whatever branch and whatever level of government, and whatever be their private vocations, are trustees of the people, and accordingly labor under every disability and prohibition imposed by law upon trustees relative to the making of personal financial gain from a discharge of their trusts. [2] That is, a public officer occupies a fiduciary relationship to the political entity on whose behalf he or she serves. [3] and owes a fiduciary duty to the public. [4] It has been said that the fiduciary responsibilities of a public officer cannot be less than those of a private individual. [5] Furthermore, it has been stated that any enterprise undertaken by the public official which tends to weaken public confidence and undermine the sense of security for individual rights is against public policy.[6]”
63C Am.Jur.2d, Public Officers and Employees, §247


Second most do not realize that is basic understanding in law that the people are self governing just like the US GOV. ( a federal corporation) is self governing
28 USC § 3002 - DEFINITIONS
(15)“United States” means—
(A)a Federal corporation;
[link to www.law.cornell.edu]

The people are self governing by the common law, grand juries, indictments, jury trials.

The gov. is self governed by rules, regulation, codes, statutes, and administrative courts (this is what most are referring to when they talk about maritime law.)

Statutes only apply to government

There are two worlds going on at the same time. The question then is what world were u in at the time of any compliant.

The idea prevails with some, indeed it has expression in arguments at the bar, that we have in this country substantially two national governments; one to be maintained under the Constitution, with all its restrictions; the other to be maintained by Congress outside and independently of that instrument, by exercising such powers as other nations of the earth are accustomed to... I take leave to say that, if the principles thus announced should ever receive the sanction of a majority of this court, a radical and mischievous change in our system will result. We will, in that event, pass from the era of constitutional liberty guarded and protected by a written constitution into an era of legislative absolutism... It will be an evil day for American Liberty if the theory of a government outside the Supreme Law of the Land finds lodgment in our Constitutional Jurisprudence. No higher duty rests upon this court than to exert its full authority to prevent all violation of the principles of the Constitution.”
DOWNES v. BIDWELL, 182 U.S. 244 (1901)

If the constitution is the supreme law of the land and only applies to government, what makes u think that anything below that applies to anything but the government? There are no such things as constitutional rights, ur rights come from god so read your bible, the constitution merely recognizes what is already known to be true.

The restrictions that the Constitution places upon the government in its capacity as lawmaker, i.e., as the regulator of private conduct, are not the same as the restrictions that it places upon the government in its capacity as employer. We have recognized this in many contexts, with respect to many different constitutional guarantees. Private citizens perhaps cannot be prevented from wearing long hair, but policemen can. Kelley v. Johnson, 425 U.S. 238, 247 (1976). Private citizens cannot have their property searched without probable cause, but in many circumstances government employees can. O'Connor v. Ortega, 480 U.S. 709, 723 (1987) (plurality opinion); id., at 732 (SCALIA, J., concurring in judgment). Private citizens cannot be punished for refusing to provide the government information that may incriminate them, but government employees can be dismissed when the incriminating information that they refuse to provide relates to the performance of their job. Gardner v. Broderick, [497 U.S. 62, 95] 392 U.S. 273, 277 -278 (1968). With regard to freedom of speech in particular: Private citizens cannot be punished for speech of merely private concern, but government employees can be fired for that reason. Connick v. Myers, 461 U.S. 138, 147 (1983). Private citizens cannot be punished for partisan political activity, but federal and state employees can be dismissed and otherwise punished for that reason. Public Workers v. Mitchell, 330 U.S. 75, 101 (1947); Civil Service Comm'n v. Letter Carriers, 413 U.S. 548, 556 (1973); Broadrick v. Oklahoma, 413 U.S. 601, 616 -617 (1973).”
RUTAN v. REPUBLICAN PARTY OF ILLINOIS, 497 U.S. 62 (1990)

Public trustees (government employees) are not protected by the constitution which is why constitution arguments cannot be made in administrative courts.

The TPTB learned a long time ago that forcing people into slavery didn’t work well, so they made the people free(sovereign) and used the masses stupidly against them to get them to contract themselves back into slavery.

I’ll finish with what sovereign actually means.
-Blacks Law 2nd Edition
Sovereign- a chief ruler with supreme power, a king or other ruler with limited power

“Sovereignty itself is, of course, not subject to law, for it is the author and source of law; but in our system, while sovereign powers are delegated to the agencies of government, sovereignty itself remains with the people, by whom and for whom all government exists and acts”
YICK WO v. HOPKINS, 118 U.S. 356 (1886)

"at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people, and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects (unless the African slaves among us may be so called), and have none to govern but themselves; the citizens of America are equal as fellow citizens, and as joint tenants in the sovereignty."
Chisholm v. Georgia - 2 U.S. 419 (1793)

Resources for further study:
-sedm.org
-1215.org
-teamlaw.org
-Rob Menard
-Dean Clifford (who is currently being held in jail as a political prisoner)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20179835


Nobody knows what they are talking about on this thread? Speak for yourself.

Dean Clifford is in jail and has been numerous times because he is still endorsing the private credit of international bankers. Same with Rob, teamlaw and 1215.

You endorse their debt system and do not play by their rules, you are sunk.

ONLY (and I do mean ONLY) the suitors who are redeeming lawful money are consistently winning against the IRS, local courts and more importantly, avoiding them all together.

If you are not demanding your redemption as spelled out in 12 USC 411 and try what others are doing, you will be in the same place as Dean Clifford, Ted Turner and all the rest of the "trust" "sovereign" gurus.

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul

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