Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

MIND = BLOWN

I just got mail about how they want to start garnishing my wages for loans, student loans, from a poor choice I did with a for-profit-anyone-can-join college.

I'm thinking of fighting it using this tactic. Just how I beat the "running red light" ticket...

Just where it has all the paper to sign, check, attach, request hearing I'll just write:

NULL AND VOID
VIOLATION OF NO DUE PROCESS

(Then I'll just cite Organic Act, Maritime Law, Strawman - and I, Xxxx XxXxx, Do not recognize XXXXX XXXXX The bearer of this loan.

??

Good Job! No conflict, no case. You simply allowed them to "credit" their accounts with your endorsement of the "charges"!

I have done the same many, many times by simply writing the courts a promissory note, payable about 10 decades in the future. Works every single time.

Agree quickly with thine adversary. Let them assume the DEBT they are claiming you owe! Brilliant move in the world of FIAT money!! Give them the signature "Backing" and they are done!!

Love it!!!

Nobody knows what they are talking about on this thread? Speak for yourself.

Dean Clifford is in jail and has been numerous times because he is still endorsing the private credit of international bankers. Same with Rob, teamlaw and 1215.

You endorse their debt system and do not play by their rules, you are sunk.

ONLY (and I do mean ONLY) the suitors who are redeeming lawful money are consistently winning against the IRS, local courts and more importantly, avoiding them all together.

If you are not demanding your redemption as spelled out in 12 USC 411 and try what others are doing, you will be in the same place as Dean Clifford, Ted Turner and all the rest of the "trust" "sovereign" gurus.

Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul


Your either a complete morAn or a government troll. My post here is the only one worth reading. The lawfull money arguement has been destroyed in court many times. Federal Reserve Notes are 100% lawfull and legal. U keep on going about the public debt. ALL DEBTS ARE OWED TO THE CREDITORS. WHO THEN IS THE CREDITOR? I'LL GIVE U A HINT IT'S THE PEOPLE


In my research of over 15 years - this is the conclusion I have drawn as well...

The deficits of all the industrialized countries, are in fact credit owed to it's citizens... lawful money, meaning money earned by labour, when spent into the economy produces a dividend, a reserve...

The Canadian "Bills of Exchange Act" clearly states - a crossed cheque is a dividend warrant...

The devil though is in the details - how exactly do we redeem our credit???


The first step is to record your demand for said redemption.

NOTICE is ALWAYS the first step. Once your notice and demand is recorded, you keep demanding it.

This is the ONLY way for anyone in a "debtor" nation to become a creditor. This is the major flaw in Clifford and many other BS sovereign citizen claims. Pledging labor does not make you (legally) a creditor, it makes you a peon or share cropper.

When I demand my "pay check" for anything, labor, ideas, et al be redeemed in lawful money per 12 USC 411, I am telling the government "YOU owe me this amount of lawful money" and I want it, its now a matter of public record.

They do not give it to me, they give me US Notes (you see them as Federal Reserve Notes) that are worthless, the government still owes me my money, therefore, I am, in legal and lawful terms, its CREDITOR.

The stupid idea that I can go into a bankruptcy court and claim "creditor" or "beneficiary" status to a trust that I have never accessed via my demand for lawful money per 12 USC 411 AND a reservation of rights on every contractual agreement between my person and the Government is not a legally viable stand.

That is why the Gurus end up in jail all the time, they are standing on legal ground they have not accessed by obeying the law of the land.


I understand your using lawful money issue, and although that may alleviate the federal tax issue - it does not answer the issue of redeeming the credit you have built up...

It is the redemption of credit, that I am after... It has far more value then gains I might have from not paying federal taxes...

The above post...

Sorry, quoting messed up...

Stop misleading people, you're feeding the gullible.

Your either a complete morAn or a government troll. My post here is the only one worth reading. The lawfull money arguement has been destroyed in court many times. Federal Reserve Notes are 100% lawfull and legal. U keep on going about the public debt. ALL DEBTS ARE OWED TO THE CREDITORS. WHO THEN IS THE CREDITOR? I'LL GIVE U A HINT IT'S THE PEOPLE


In my research of over 15 years - this is the conclusion I have drawn as well...

The deficits of all the industrialized countries, are in fact credit owed to it's citizens... lawful money, meaning money earned by labour, when spent into the economy produces a dividend, a reserve...

The Canadian "Bills of Exchange Act" clearly states - a crossed cheque is a dividend warrant...

The devil though is in the details - how exactly do we redeem our credit???


The first step is to record your demand for said redemption.

NOTICE is ALWAYS the first step. Once your notice and demand is recorded, you keep demanding it.

This is the ONLY way for anyone in a "debtor" nation to become a creditor. This is the major flaw in Clifford and many other BS sovereign citizen claims. Pledging labor does not make you (legally) a creditor, it makes you a peon or share cropper.

When I demand my "pay check" for anything, labor, ideas, et al be redeemed in lawful money per 12 USC 411, I am telling the government "YOU owe me this amount of lawful money" and I want it, its now a matter of public record.

They do not give it to me, they give me US Notes (you see them as Federal Reserve Notes) that are worthless, the government still owes me my money, therefore, I am, in legal and lawful terms, its CREDITOR.

The stupid idea that I can go into a bankruptcy court and claim "creditor" or "beneficiary" status to a trust that I have never accessed via my demand for lawful money per 12 USC 411 AND a reservation of rights on every contractual agreement between my person and the Government is not a legally viable stand.

That is why the Gurus end up in jail all the time, they are standing on legal ground they have not accessed by obeying the law of the land.


I understand your using lawful money issue, and although that may alleviate the federal tax issue - it does not answer the issue of redeeming the credit you have built up...

It is the redemption of credit, that I am after... It has far more value then gains I might have from not paying federal taxes...


After you make your demand for lawful money, get your accounting of your "value" give notice in Federal court to the Comptroller of currency, the Treasury et al, get a default judgement.

Then file your UCC forms about the outstanding debt you are owed and stand in line, behind China and about 5 million others also demanding your Government pay its debts.

David M has done it, it is a matter of public record.

Simple, but you still will not "get paid" you will only have legal proof they owe YOU not the other way around.

Welcome to the real world of fiat money and international finance.

Yeah, mine too, I did not edit it. Sorry for the confusing quotes.

The people are self governing by the common law, grand juries, indictments, jury trials.

The gov. is self governed by rules, regulation, codes, statutes, and administrative courts (this is what most are referring to when they talk about maritime law.)

Statutes only apply to government


No, Statutes apply to people too. For example: Title 18 of the USC. Its where you find your murder, theft and robbery prohibitions. And they most definitely apply to people. The idea that Title 18 only applies to the government and not to the citizens is nonsense. It absolutely applies to citizens and is enforced daily.

Second, 'government' isn't a single body. But has multiple layers. The federal government is governed directly by the constitution, which defines the federal government's powers. The States governments are separate and don't have their powers defined by the constitution. Which the 10th amendment makes really clear.

They each have their own legal authority, their own police powers, with largely overlapping jurisdiction. As jurisdiction is most commonly applied *geographically*. If you're in Delaware for example, the laws of Delaware apply to you. It really doesn't matter if what you call yourself, or what the font size is on your birth certificate or if you use Federal Reserve Notes. If you mug somebody and they catch you....you're going to jail.


DOWNES v. BIDWELL, 182 U.S. 244 (1901)


DOWNES v. BIDWELL is about whether or not newly annexed territories fall under the 'uniform excise' limitations in the constitution. These territories are the 'maintained by Congress outside and independently of that instrument' that the ruling is referring to.

You seem to be trying to apply that standard to the entire country....and that doesn't work. As the ruling clearly defines what it applies to and under what circumstance. You removing the statement from context and arbitrarily applying it where ever you'd like doesn't mean that the courts are obliged to follow your new application.

And most relevant....you're citing the dissenting opinion of Justice Harlan. Not the majority of the court where the authority of the judiciary lays. The dissenting opinion has no legal authority. Which you either know...or should know. And really need to include in these citations.

That's the folly of just lifting these grand block quotes from random bloggers without reading the cases yourself. And almost no one here has read any case they're citing, or has the slightest clue what the citations are in reference to.

Which would explain their gross misunderstandings of how the law actually works.

Your either a complete morAn or a government troll. My post here is the only one worth reading. The lawfull money arguement has been destroyed in court many times. Federal Reserve Notes are 100% lawfull and legal. U keep on going about the public debt. ALL DEBTS ARE OWED TO THE CREDITORS. WHO THEN IS THE CREDITOR? I'LL GIVE U A HINT IT'S THE PEOPLE


In my research of over 15 years - this is the conclusion I have drawn as well...

The deficits of all the industrialized countries, are in fact credit owed to it's citizens... lawful money, meaning money earned by labour, when spent into the economy produces a dividend, a reserve...

The Canadian "Bills of Exchange Act" clearly states - a crossed cheque is a dividend warrant...

The devil though is in the details - how exactly do we redeem our credit???


The first step is to record your demand for said redemption.

NOTICE is ALWAYS the first step. Once your notice and demand is recorded, you keep demanding it.

This is the ONLY way for anyone in a "debtor" nation to become a creditor. This is the major flaw in Clifford and many other BS sovereign citizen claims. Pledging labor does not make you (legally) a creditor, it makes you a peon or share cropper.

When I demand my "pay check" for anything, labor, ideas, et al be redeemed in lawful money per 12 USC 411, I am telling the government "YOU owe me this amount of lawful money" and I want it, its now a matter of public record.

They do not give it to me, they give me US Notes (you see them as Federal Reserve Notes) that are worthless, the government still owes me my money, therefore, I am, in legal and lawful terms, its CREDITOR.

The stupid idea that I can go into a bankruptcy court and claim "creditor" or "beneficiary" status to a trust that I have never accessed via my demand for lawful money per 12 USC 411 AND a reservation of rights on every contractual agreement between my person and the Government is not a legally viable stand.

That is why the Gurus end up in jail all the time, they are standing on legal ground they have not accessed by obeying the law of the land.


I understand your using lawful money issue, and although that may alleviate the federal tax issue - it does not answer the issue of redeeming the credit you have built up...

It is the redemption of credit, that I am after... It has far more value then gains I might have from not paying federal taxes...


NICE.

So if I went to my BANK RIGHT NOW AND DID THIS

Would I get a US Note instead of FRN? Red Seal and all?

If I went in with a notarized letter and cut and pasted some highlighted laws from the other thread, etc.

I know of a sovereign freedom fighter, he was fighting the seat belt law in California, it had been about a year for his speedy trial. He was the one that told me that the the US flag in the courts is really the Navy flag.

The last time I head from him was about the radiation in milk and take your shoes off before going into the house. Don't eat the tomatoes at one time, he was to get back to me this about ten months ago. I think he afraid for his family.

He was on a US sub and learn about radiation there.

I am not forcing you to do a damn thing, and you are getting exactly what you pay for at GLP! You want to give legal advise, become an attorney, clearly there are not enough of them.

Due diligence.

AC 34391143 .... YOU have NEVER read The Matrix and the U.S. Constitution, as evidenced by your 'remarks' above. It DOES go back to 1213 when a FRENCH Catholic , on the English throne, gave away all lands/possessions then owned by England, AND any FUTURE lands to the Pope, for absolution of his sins in a 'TRUST" that has NEVER been changed ! USA was a future land !

Read the Matrix .... then come back and tell me YOU can change history, trusts between ancient monarchs and I will say you ARE certifiably insane !

In my research of over 15 years - this is the conclusion I have drawn as well...

The deficits of all the industrialized countries, are in fact credit owed to it's citizens... lawful money, meaning money earned by labour, when spent into the economy produces a dividend, a reserve...

The Canadian "Bills of Exchange Act" clearly states - a crossed cheque is a dividend warrant...

The devil though is in the details - how exactly do we redeem our credit???


The first step is to record your demand for said redemption.

NOTICE is ALWAYS the first step. Once your notice and demand is recorded, you keep demanding it.

This is the ONLY way for anyone in a "debtor" nation to become a creditor. This is the major flaw in Clifford and many other BS sovereign citizen claims. Pledging labor does not make you (legally) a creditor, it makes you a peon or share cropper.

When I demand my "pay check" for anything, labor, ideas, et al be redeemed in lawful money per 12 USC 411, I am telling the government "YOU owe me this amount of lawful money" and I want it, its now a matter of public record.

They do not give it to me, they give me US Notes (you see them as Federal Reserve Notes) that are worthless, the government still owes me my money, therefore, I am, in legal and lawful terms, its CREDITOR.

The stupid idea that I can go into a bankruptcy court and claim "creditor" or "beneficiary" status to a trust that I have never accessed via my demand for lawful money per 12 USC 411 AND a reservation of rights on every contractual agreement between my person and the Government is not a legally viable stand.

That is why the Gurus end up in jail all the time, they are standing on legal ground they have not accessed by obeying the law of the land.


I understand your using lawful money issue, and although that may alleviate the federal tax issue - it does not answer the issue of redeeming the credit you have built up...

It is the redemption of credit, that I am after... It has far more value then gains I might have from not paying federal taxes...


NICE.

So if I went to my BANK RIGHT NOW AND DID THIS

Would I get a US Note instead of FRN? Red Seal and all?

If I went in with a notarized letter and cut and pasted some highlighted laws from the other thread, etc.


The other thread has all the info on where the US Treasury Notes are and how to prove you are accessing and using them!

www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1304915/pg1

Sorry, I have to leave for work now...

Have to go earn some lawful money ... LOL

Check back in a few hours - this thread is interesting...

United State Code Title 12 is the regulation. The contract is between Congress (the US) and the Federal Reserve Bank. I cited that source earlier, again, your opinion and ignorance, not mine. Are you seriously implying in your posts there is no contract between the US and the Federal Reserve?


You did cite Title 12....it just didn't say what you claimed it did. You argued that the use of Federal Reserve dollars created an 'implied contract' that granted the government jurisdiction over you.

Title 12 never said this. You did, citing yourself. And you don't know what you're talking about.

Either cite the section of Title 12 that states that the use of Federal Reserve Dollars is an 'implied contract' that grants the government jurisdiction over you....or admit that you're just making this up as you go along.

You citing yourself *as* Title 12 doesn't mean a thing.

I am citing the contract between congress and the Federal Reserve.

Title 12 is the regulating body (congress/US administrative side) of the contract. All contracts are governed by ACTS when it comes to congress.

Congressmen and women do not officially make contracts for themselves, they RE-PRESENT their respective constituents, the PEOPLE. They make agreements with private companies.

However, the PEOPLE are NOT obligated to enjoin themselves with every single contract their Representatives sign on for.

The adhesion to the Federal Reserve Contract relies on 12 USC 411, it is the OPT OUT option for the people.

Simply put, if you do not OPT OUT per 12 USC 411, you are presumed and assumed to be "IN".

There was money long before the Federal Reserve and there still is, you are either using public money or you are using Federal Reserve money (that is the fact) you can huff and puff all you like, but the contract is in place as is 12 USC 411.

Suck it.

GREAT POST, AC 31735180 about Great Britain and the Pope owning most of the world. Backs up my post about the US Judges story contained in The Matrix and the U.S. Constitution.

Very few know about this and the judge said he spent a long time reading/figuring this out, before posting his HISTORICAL information.

Let the government/CORPORATE shills continue to deny the true history AND that corporate entities rule us by legal trickery of words only their BAR ( British Attorney Registry ) know.

Education of the masses is a VERY hard road to travel. As an ex teacher, of 27 years I certainly spent a lot of time in the trenches. With the LIES OPENLY fostered on these uneducated masses today, by government, local, state and federal AND their having the media all 'in their pocket/PAID OFF, it'a tough row to hoe !

The term Sovereign Citizen has been hijacked by nutjobs...

[link to www.nola.com]

7 suspects in St. John deputy shootings are tied to violent anti-government group

When Tennessee authorities arrived at a trailer park in suburban Nashville to serve a search warrant on a suspected child molester last November, they did not find the man they had come for. Instead, they found a Buick stolen from Nebraska, a small arsenal of weapons and a stack of a papers that led them to believe their suspect was affiliated with a violent, anti-government "sovereign citizens" organization.

Thread: The Louisiana shootings - more than meets the eye?

As long as agents of the State hold a monopoly on the initiation of force, the legal right to kidnap, incarcerate, and confiscate, and the ability to print money at will, then all 'sovereign' legal arguments are irrelevant and pointless.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

There is enough information on the DEAL congress made with the Federal Reserve to keep anyone busy for a long, long time.

There is NO law that requires anyone to accept or use Federal Reserve Notes:

Here the cite for that, since I have been accused of "citing myself".

[link to www.treasury.gov]

Quoting from the above: "There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."

Now from here: [link to www.investopedia.com]

"Investopedia explains 'Lawful Money'
Oddly enough, the dollar bills that we carry around in our wallets are not considered lawful money. The notation on the bottom of a U.S. dollar bill reads "Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private", and is issued by the U.S. Federal Reserve, not the U.S. Treasury. Legal tender can be exchanged for an equivalent amount of lawful money, but effects such as inflation can change the value of fiat money. Lawful money is said to be the most direct form of ownership, but for purposes of practicality it has little use in direct transactions between parties anymore."

And here: [link to definitions.uslegal.com]

"Legal tender is currency that cannot legally be refused in payment of debt. The Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, defines legal tender as "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no federal statute requiring a private business, a person or an organization to accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses may adopt their own policies on whether or not to accept cash as long it doesn't violate state law. For example, a business may refuses to accept payment in pennies or large denomination bills as a matter of policy."

Cited and quoted directly.

There is NO LAW requiring me to use Federal Reserve Credit, nor is there any law requiring anyone to ACCEPT IT.

By default, there MUST BE another form of Lawful money that people cannot lawfully or legally refuse "as tender for payment of DEBTS".

That question was answered in Rickman VS Ware. Look it up yourself.

I don't care how they label me, I'm just free in my head. My thoughts, my own. My live, my own.

Anonymous Maverick.

Are you trying to incite people to go against authorities with violence?

We have another Chris Dorner keep an eye on him.

I am citing the contract between congress and the Federal Reserve


No, you're referring to the obligations of people...


Their only authorized used is spelled out in 12 USC 411. That is available on line and in public libraries free of charge, nothing obligates you to use them, nor is the government obligated to inform you of every obligation you take on by their use.

Thread: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal? (Page 7)


Not the obligation of the federal government and the federal reserve. Only now, when your entire basis of argument has been proven useless idiocy do you scramble to move your goal posts.

The use of federal reserve currency does NOT create an implied contract between people and the federal government or people and the federal reserve. It doesn't not carry any contractual obligations for people. Nor does it establish any jurisdiction.

Jurisdiction is established geographically. It doesn't matter if you use federal reserve notes or not. The law applies to you just the same. Your limitation on the application of law (whether or not you're using federal reserve notes) is imaginary nonsense. And has no relevance to the law or the world outside this message board.

Exactly how did you come to that conclusion? What part of my statement is in error?

Aren't you trying to provoke people with red herrings?

Shingen!! Long time no see! Hope all is well!!

Personally, I do not believe knowledge is ever worthless. I also am not naive enough to know it will not save anyone from what is here already. They bring out the "burners" on national tv and execute a suspect in Cali.

I am sure they will say "he could have fled the fire and gotten out" of course, they would have shot him on sight and claimed he was resisting!

I am here because the subject interests me and I hope it will help people understand the reason we are in this is because of OUR actions and stop blaming everyone else.

That is what it means to be as free a man as we can be, personal responsibility for what we do or do not do.

Yes, actually it does create an obligation, now go pay your income tax and STFU already, slave.

"Investopedia explains 'Lawful Money'
Oddly enough, the dollar bills that we carry around in our wallets are not considered lawful money. The notation on the bottom of a U.S. dollar bill reads "Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private", and is issued by the U.S. Federal Reserve, not the U.S. Treasury. Legal tender can be exchanged for an equivalent amount of lawful money, but effects such as inflation can change the value of fiat money. Lawful money is said to be the most direct form of ownership, but for purposes of practicality it has little use in direct transactions between parties anymore."

'Investopedia' isn't a legal authority. It really doesn't matter what they think about 'lawful money'. The only legal relevance is what the law (statutory and caselaw) say on the topic. And the courts have never accepted the 'lawful money' babble regarding Federal Reserve Notes anymore than they have 'using federal reserve notes obligates people in an implied contract' nonsense.

Both are pseudo-legal gibberish. You don't know what you're talking about.

Show us the *law* making a distinction between 'lawful' and 'unlawful' money....with Federal Reserve Notes recognized as not being 'lawful'. You can't. The law doesn't recognize the distinction as far as Federal Reserve Notes are concerned.

Ergo, you're not citing the law. You're citing yourself....and apparently 'investopedia'. I just checked the constitution. Investopedia isn't mentioned anywhere.

Try again.

Yes, actually it does create an obligation, now go pay your income tax and STFU already, slave.

No, it doesn't. Using federal reserve notes or not, the law is still the same. The jurisdiction is still the same.

The 'sovereign citizens' just keep making up these imaginary 'limitations' of government jurisdiction that don't actually exist. Jurisdiction isn't based on whether or not you use FRN's or if your birth was recorded in a bible or what font type is used on your birth certificate.

But on where you are geographically.

There's no secret status or secret hand shake that makes you immune from the law.

Get used to the idea.

The problem with the whole 'sovereign' argument is the fact that private individuals can't own property, as all property is owned by the State.

Without true ownership of land, and the right to self defense against the State, there is no individual 'sovereignty'.

It's a false hope built on a false premise.