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Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1096692
South Africa
02/16/2013 12:24 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I said everybody is born Sovereign and the fiction you keep talking about has no jurisdiction


Oh, I remember you 'saying' it. You declaring that no laws apply to you doesn't amount to much. As you don't decide which laws apply to you and which don't. You don't define any 'requirement' of the law. You don't define any legal term. You don't define any jurisdiction.

The law and the courts do. Not you.

Its the same problem afflicting the entire sovereign citizen movement. They keep imagining, as you do, that any inane babble they want to imagine must apply to the real world.

Laughing...nope! Your imagination is irrelevant. It doens't effect the law in the slightest. It doesn't limit the authority of the court in the slightest. If you want to make a legal argument, cite the law or the courts.

But you citing yourself is meaningless. As you've demonstrated you're fully aware of by your refusal to put your theory to the test.

Keep running.
 Quoting: J 34504191


Whose courts and whose laws? They aren't mine because I never agreed to any of it. Just like the Chinese courts and laws aren't my laws.

My being born here isn't proof of jurisdiction

Please provide proof J that the fictions have jurisdiction over me. I'm waiting also. The threat of force and violence is NOT proof of jurisdiction
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:24 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
link or not, it is not proof of claim. Prove your jurisdiction over me, right here, right now.


Shocker: More excuses why you won't dare put your theory to the test.

When even you don't believe your own nonsense, you're done.
 Quoting: J 34504191


You have jurisdiction or you do not, my performance and consent are not relevant, that is how subjugation works.

Come on, you know this!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:26 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
"Subjugation is one of many types of injustice in the world. It has to do with one group of people dominating another group by taking away their freedom. When slavery was legal in the U.S., that was a clear-cut case of subjugation: African-Americans were forced to live without rights, under the control of their white owners. To remember this word, think of its Latin root subjugat, which means "brought under a yoke."

[link to www.vocabulary.com]

Am I a "subject" or not J?
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:26 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I am not running, I am demanding you prove your claim that YOU have jurisdiction over me.

And when have I claimed that *I* have jurisdiction over you?

Quote me.
I think all the desperate scrambling away from your own claims has left you a little confused.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1096692
South Africa
02/16/2013 12:27 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
link or not, it is not proof of claim. Prove your jurisdiction over me, right here, right now.


Shocker: More excuses why you won't dare put your theory to the test.

When even you don't believe your own nonsense, you're done.
 Quoting: J 34504191


J - why do you keep running away from proof of jurisdiction?? please provide proof that the States or USA corporate fictions have jurisdiction over any of us?? Please provide proof that those fictional laws have jurisdiction over men and women. When did any of us agree to those laws? I never did did you?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:27 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I am not running, I am demanding you prove your claim that YOU have jurisdiction over me.

And when have I claimed that *I* have jurisdiction over you?

Quote me.
I think all the desperate scrambling away from your own claims has left you a little confused.
 Quoting: J 34504191


Your government then. Either or, pond scum.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:29 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
link or not, it is not proof of claim. Prove your jurisdiction over me, right here, right now.


Shocker: More excuses why you won't dare put your theory to the test.

When even you don't believe your own nonsense, you're done.
 Quoting: J 34504191


J - why do you keep running away from proof of jurisdiction?? please provide proof that the States or USA corporate fictions have jurisdiction over any of us?? Please provide proof that those fictional laws have jurisdiction over men and women. When did any of us agree to those laws? I never did did you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1096692


I didn't, but I still want proof I am a subject to his government, since he claimed I do not need to consent, it was because I was "born".
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:32 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Whose courts and whose laws? They aren't mine because I never agreed to any of it. Just like the Chinese courts and laws aren't my laws.

If you're in China, they are. If you're in the US, then our laws apply. As jurisdiction is established geographically.

Your agreement with the law is completely irrelevant. As the laws apply whether or not you agree. If 'consent' were required for a law to apply, then any murderer could kill anyone they wish....and then summarily declare that the statute against murder doesn't apply to them.

Thankfully, we don't live under such a system. No nation does. That you imagine you're immune from all laws doesn't change the fact that if you violate our laws and we catch you.....you'll be punished accordingly.

You don't dare break a law where you could be caught because you know full well that your entire line of reasoning is meaningless gibberish. Its the same folly for virtually the whole of the sovereign citizen movement. You're brave in the bubble of the message board...and timid as church mice where the *actual* law is applied in the real world.

Those few hapless fools that actually try to put their theories to the test.....end up in jail.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:32 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
NOT PROOF J
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:33 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
How about YOU prove I am "in the US" J?

Can you do that?
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:34 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

I didn't, but I still want proof I am a subject to his government, since he claimed I do not need to consent, it was because I was "born".


You can test your theory within a few minutes. But you don't dare.

Because you already know that your claims are meaningless gibberish. You're just another keyboard commando who talks big on the internet....yet slinks away quietly and obediently in the real world.

Shocker. Keep running.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32596229
Germany
02/16/2013 12:35 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Am I in the US now, J?

Where AM I?

Am I a US SUBJECT NOW, J?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32596229
Germany
02/16/2013 12:36 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I ran to Germany!!

Prove I am "in the US" and subject to your jurisdiction, or theirs, or anyone for that matter.

Come on PROVE IT!
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:38 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
How about YOU prove I am "in the US" J?

With the possible exception of Somalia, it really doesn't matter which country you're in. You're subject to the laws of the land. As jurisdiction is established geographically.

Try going to mexico and telling a cop that you can do whatever you want and none of mexico's laws apply to you. After they stopped laughing, I don't think the results would be pleasant.

You can lie to yourself all you like, buddy, you can imagine any legal superpowers you want.....the real world doesn't change a bit.

Which apparently even you realize in your stark and obsequious obedience to the law of the land.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:38 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Did I escape US subjugation by being in Germany?

Am I under US jurisdiction again now J?

J? Can you prove it?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:40 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
How about YOU prove I am "in the US" J?

With the possible exception of Somalia, it really doesn't matter which country you're in. You're subject to the laws of the land. As jurisdiction is established geographically.

Try going to mexico and telling a cop that you can do whatever you want and none of mexico's laws apply to you. After they stopped laughing, I don't think the results would be pleasant.

You can lie to yourself all you like, buddy, you can imagine any legal superpowers you want.....the real world doesn't change a bit.

Which apparently even you realize in your stark and obsequious obedience to the law of the land.
 Quoting: J 34504191


Subjugation, by definition and your numerous posts does not require me to do or be anything or anywhere, either your Government has rule over me or it does not.

Provide your proof it does, pussy (that's another name for your list).
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:40 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
NOT PROOF J

You can *say* you believe you're king and immune from all laws.

But your actions speak far louder than your words.

You could put your theory to the test in *minute*. But you don't dare...because you know your claims are meaningless gibberish.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:41 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
ubjugation, by definition and your numerous posts does not require me to do or be anything or anywhere, either your Government has rule over me or it does not.


Shocker. More excuses why you don't dare put your theories to the test.

You've already proven you don't believe your nonsense.

Keep running.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:41 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
PROVE YOUR CLAIM I AM A SUBJECT OF YOUR GOVERNMENT J.

You telling me to go "do" something so it will be proven is insanity, why would I need to do something to prove I am a subject, either I am subject or I am not.

Now prove it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:42 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
ubjugation, by definition and your numerous posts does not require me to do or be anything or anywhere, either your Government has rule over me or it does not.


Shocker. More excuses why you don't dare put your theories to the test.

You've already proven you don't believe your nonsense.

Keep running.
 Quoting: J 34504191


Keep not proving your claims, burrito bean.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:45 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Did I escape US subjugation by being in Germany?

And who said you were under 'US subjegation'? You citing you again?

Like your 'sovereign citizen' ilk, you keep making the silly mistake in thinking that you citing yourselves has any legal relevance.

It doesn't. Try again.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:45 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
I did wave my d*ck at a cop once. She arrested me alright, all night long. I would subject myself to her again and again.

Is that what you meant J?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:47 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Did I escape US subjugation by being in Germany?

And who said you were under 'US subjegation'? You citing you again?

Like your 'sovereign citizen' ilk, you keep making the silly mistake in thinking that you citing yourselves has any legal relevance.

It doesn't. Try again.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34504191


Was that proof? Hmm, NOPE.

Prove your claims of jurisdiction, or that I am in the US, or that I am an ilk?

Can't do it, or you would do it.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:47 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Keep not proving your claims, burrito bean.

Smiling...another keyboard commando who talks big on the internet. But won't dare put his theories to the test.

Meh, almost everyone here is the same. They talk big about how they don't have to pay their taxes, how they've found some loophole to the 'maritime courts', how they're immune to the laws.

And yet they do pay their income taxes. And their state taxes. And their sales taxes. And obey traffic laws.

As they, like you, don't believe their own babble. Which you've proven yet again.

Keep running.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17551129
Canada
02/16/2013 12:48 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Whose courts and whose laws? They aren't mine because I never agreed to any of it. Just like the Chinese courts and laws aren't my laws.

If you're in China, they are. If you're in the US, then our laws apply. As jurisdiction is established geographically.

Your agreement with the law is completely irrelevant. As the laws apply whether or not you agree. If 'consent' were required for a law to apply, then any murderer could kill anyone they wish....and then summarily declare that the statute against murder doesn't apply to them.

Thankfully, we don't live under such a system. No nation does. That you imagine you're immune from all laws doesn't change the fact that if you violate our laws and we catch you.....you'll be punished accordingly.

You don't dare break a law where you could be caught because you know full well that your entire line of reasoning is meaningless gibberish. Its the same folly for virtually the whole of the sovereign citizen movement. You're brave in the bubble of the message board...and timid as church mice where the *actual* law is applied in the real world.

Those few hapless fools that actually try to put their theories to the test.....end up in jail.
 Quoting: J 34504191


So basically your saying - this democracy is a dictatorship, where full disclosure is impossible to achieve, and fear is the modem of operation...

The only real test of anything is to do it, and you are right, some have gone to jail... The jail aspect gets peoples attention, and they educate themselves more... But, it will not stop them...
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:49 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Was that proof? Hmm, NOPE.

Prove your claims of jurisdiction, or that I am in the US, or that I am an ilk?

Can't do it, or you would do it.


Wow. More excuses why you don't dare test your theory.

Now how did I know that was coming.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:50 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Proof:

"The establishment of a fact by the use of evidence. Anything that can make a person believe that a fact or proposition is true or false. It is distinguishable from evidence in that proof is a broad term comprehending everything that may be adduced at a trial, whereas evidence is a narrow term describing certain types of proof that can be admitted at trial."

Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:52 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
So basically your saying - this democracy is a dictatorship, where full disclosure is impossible to achieve, and fear is the modem of operation...

So basically you're saying that if a murderer kills someone....that he can declare himself exempt from the statute against murder because he doesn't consent to the law?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31297288
United States
02/16/2013 12:54 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Provide your evidence I am under the Jurisdiction of the US Government, J.

Since you failed so badly proving it, I will lower the standard.

you should be used to low standards, you have lived up to them for the past 48 hours on this thread.
J
User ID: 34504191
United States
02/16/2013 12:54 AM
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Re: Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?
Since you clearly have failed to prove your claim, how about you provide your evidence I am subject to the US Government.

It should be simple enough, GO.


You're subject to the law of the land. If you're in the US, then you're subject to the laws of the US. And if you violate one and we catch you, you will be subject to the law.

Which of course you already know. Which is why you don't dare violate a law where anyone might catch you.

If your theory had actual merit....none of that would be necessary. Demonstrating rather elegantly that even you don't believe your nonsense claims.

Keep running.





GLP