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pope Pius X vision is crazy!!

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 11:15 PM
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pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
It is striking that at least one pope had a similar mystical vision:

In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."

Malachy's final words:

In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city (Rome, the seat of the Vatican) will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people.

[link to www.bibleprobe.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/15/2013 11:21 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
also from a different thread i found this...

Pope Pius X once had a vision:

I have seen one of my successors, of the same name [a future pope named Pius], who was fleeing over the dead bodies of his brethren. He will take refuge in some hiding place; but after a brief respite, he will die a cruel death. Respect for God has disappeared from human hearts. They wish to efface even God’s memory. This perversity is nothing less than the beginning of the last days of the world.

its all interesting with the current pope "quiting rome" if you will.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 11:24 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
The Third Secret of Fatima supports the Petrus Romanus ending to the papacy:

I write in obedience to you, my God, who commands me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your most Holy Mother and mine.

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an angel with a flaming sword in his left hand. Flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire.

But they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand.

Pointing to the earth with his right hand, the angel cried out in a loud voice: "Penance, penance, penance!"

And we saw in an immense light that is God, something similar to how people appear in a mirror when then pass in front of it, a bishop dressed in white.

We had the impression that it was the Holy Father.

Other bishops, priests, religious men and women were going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark.

Before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way.

Having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the bishops, priests, religious men and women, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.

Beneath the two arms of the cross there were two angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 11:28 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
also from a different thread i found this...

Pope Pius X once had a vision:

I have seen one of my successors, of the same name [a future pope named Pius], who was fleeing over the dead bodies of his brethren. He will take refuge in some hiding place; but after a brief respite, he will die a cruel death. Respect for God has disappeared from human hearts. They wish to efface even God’s memory. This perversity is nothing less than the beginning of the last days of the world.

its all interesting with the current pope "quiting rome" if you will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34194126


Erm no.

Pope Pius X before he became pope was called Giuseppe Melchiorre Sarto. The clue as you have written above more than likely refers to his first name.

If you had used google translate and put in the italian 'Giuseppe' and translated it to English you would have gotten the name 'Joseph' and what was the original name of Benedict XVI prior to becoming Pope? Joseph Ratzinger!

Is something about to happen to Giuseppe/Joseph Ratzinger to fulfill the prophecy of Pope Pius X from so long ago? Keep your eyes on the news over the next few days/weeks/months. With all the crap going down lately anything is possible.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 11:29 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
The Third Secret of Fatima supports the Petrus Romanus ending to the papacy:

I write in obedience to you, my God, who commands me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your most Holy Mother and mine.

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an angel with a flaming sword in his left hand. Flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire.

But they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand.

Pointing to the earth with his right hand, the angel cried out in a loud voice: "Penance, penance, penance!"

And we saw in an immense light that is God, something similar to how people appear in a mirror when then pass in front of it, a bishop dressed in white.

We had the impression that it was the Holy Father.

Other bishops, priests, religious men and women were going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark.

Before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way.

Having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the bishops, priests, religious men and women, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.

Beneath the two arms of the cross there were two angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28760029


This so called third secret of Fatima is false.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 11:37 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
Next Pope will take name of Pius 13th.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/15/2013 11:39 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
Next Pope will take name of Pius 13th.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34388507


what will this mean ? how does it relate to the st malachy prophecy or does it not?
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 11:49 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
Next Pope will take name of Pius 13th.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34388507


The most likely candidate to fulfill this unfulfilled prophecy is Joseph Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) and he does have the same first name as Pope Pius X who's original first name was Giuseppe. Joseph translates to Giuseppe in Italian.

I have a feeling that Joseph Ratzinger is about to fulfill the long overdue Pius X prophecy. He is going into 'hiding' to a convent somewhere in the Vatican after he resigns on the 28th. This is to protect him from prosecution because there is legal action against him in the works. Reuters had a news release covering this today. This already goes some way into fitting the following line of the Pope Pius Prophecy:

'He will take refuge in some hiding place...'
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 11:49 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
i hve heard that this 3rd secret is a fake,


whats the cliff notes version of the real thing???


The Third Secret of Fatima supports the Petrus Romanus ending to the papacy:

I write in obedience to you, my God, who commands me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your most Holy Mother and mine.

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an angel with a flaming sword in his left hand. Flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire.

But they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand.

Pointing to the earth with his right hand, the angel cried out in a loud voice: "Penance, penance, penance!"

And we saw in an immense light that is God, something similar to how people appear in a mirror when then pass in front of it, a bishop dressed in white.

We had the impression that it was the Holy Father.

Other bishops, priests, religious men and women were going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark.

Before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way.

Having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the bishops, priests, religious men and women, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.

Beneath the two arms of the cross there were two angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28760029


This so called third secret of Fatima is false.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34463062
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/15/2013 11:55 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
Next Pope will take name of Pius 13th.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34388507


The most likely candidate to fulfill this unfulfilled prophecy is Joseph Ratzinger (Benedict XVI) and he does have the same first name as Pope Pius X who's original first name was Giuseppe. Joseph translates to Giuseppe in Italian.

I have a feeling that Joseph Ratzinger is about to fulfill the long overdue Pius X prophecy. He is going into 'hiding' to a convent somewhere in the Vatican after he resigns on the 28th. This is to protect him from prosecution because there is legal action against him in the works. Reuters had a news release covering this today. This already goes some way into fitting the following line of the Pope Pius Prophecy:

'He will take refuge in some hiding place...'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34463062


oh boy your right, creepy deeky dutch
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 12:05 AM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
It is striking that at least one pope had a similar mystical vision:

In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."

Malachy's final words:

In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city (Rome, the seat of the Vatican) will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people.

[link to www.bibleprobe.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34194126




Wow thank you for this. Now I understand why John Paul is in Hell Jesus showed Angelica Zambrano you can google it that John Paul is in Hell Now that I read that he called for new world order and that he kiss the quran showes that there were more that the people know of.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 12:09 AM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
i hve heard that this 3rd secret is a fake,
whats the cliff notes version of the real thing???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6739256


That's a dangerous topic don't you think?
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 12:23 AM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
i hve heard that this 3rd secret is a fake,
whats the cliff notes version of the real thing???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6739256


That's a dangerous topic don't you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34463062




uhhh, not as dangerous as what im about to live through;


i'd like to know as best what's coming as possible.


The best i've been able to piece together from everything is a global nuclear war that destroys all the major cities between 2013-2016/2017
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 12:25 AM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
after WW3 i'm sure they'll roll out all the secret books and such of the vatican, and all the secret Prophecies and be like

hey aint this neat, doesnt this sound like exactly what we just lived through,

and people will be like yea, and would of been even better if we could of got it before it happened,
AndyJ
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02/23/2013 01:47 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
From reading various prophecies I have gleaned the following. Cardinal Tarcisio PIETRO Evasio Bertone who is from ROMANO Canavese, Italy will be elected Pope Pius XIII.

But, John Bosco's end time dream/prophecy in the 1800s says,

"But hardly is the Pontiff dead than another takes his place. The pilots, having met together, have elected the Pope so promptly that the news of the death of the Pope coincides with the news of the election of the successor. The adversaries begin to lose courage."

This has always been an impossibility as there is never a conclave until after the previous pontiff has died. Except for now. What of Benedict was to die and the news announced at the same time as the conclave? (I do wish Benedict well BTW)

So St Malachy's / Pius X and Don Bosco's prophecies would all be fulfilled.

Any thoughts?
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2013 01:59 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
The Judas soul will inhabit the throne of Peter.
RDprofessor

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02/23/2013 02:18 PM

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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
This is to protect him from prosecution because there is legal action against him in the works. Reuters had a news release covering this today.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34463062


Look, Reuters is owned by the Rothschilds, and their
network also owns the "Italian" (they are not Italian) newspapers which carried the fabricated story yesterday.
You should read the Reuters news today in which the Vatican
is clear that yesterdays slander was incorrect, since you
consider them to be a non-biased source of info.

btw, the so-called "lawsuit" was also a fabrication
brought on by an "organization" which consists of
one man in Canada.
Anti-GLP Effect

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02/23/2013 02:33 PM

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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
From reading various prophecies I have gleaned the following. Cardinal Tarcisio PIETRO Evasio Bertone who is from ROMANO Canavese, Italy will be elected Pope Pius XIII.

But, John Bosco's end time dream/prophecy in the 1800s says,

"But hardly is the Pontiff dead than another takes his place. The pilots, having met together, have elected the Pope so promptly that the news of the death of the Pope coincides with the news of the election of the successor. The adversaries begin to lose courage."

This has always been an impossibility as there is never a conclave until after the previous pontiff has died. Except for now. What of Benedict was to die and the news announced at the same time as the conclave? (I do wish Benedict well BTW)

So St Malachy's / Pius X and Don Bosco's prophecies would all be fulfilled.

Any thoughts?
 Quoting: AndyJ 35017899


Tarcisio Pietro Evasio Bertone, S.D.B.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

S.D.B. stands for:

The Salesians of Don Bosco (or the Salesian Society, originally known as the Society of St. Francis de Sales) is a Roman Catholic religious institute founded in the late nineteenth century by Saint Don Bosco.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

When was the last time a member of the S.D.B was elected pope? uhoh

Last Edited by Anti-GLP Effect on 02/23/2013 02:54 PM
So it is written, so it shall be done! [link to www.shugborough.info]
Anti-GLP Effect

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02/24/2013 01:57 PM

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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
The Third Secret of Fatima supports the Petrus Romanus ending to the papacy:

I write in obedience to you, my God, who commands me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your most Holy Mother and mine.

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an angel with a flaming sword in his left hand. Flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire.

But they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand.

Pointing to the earth with his right hand, the angel cried out in a loud voice: "Penance, penance, penance!"

And we saw in an immense light that is God, something similar to how people appear in a mirror when then pass in front of it, a bishop dressed in white.

We had the impression that it was the Holy Father.

Other bishops, priests, religious men and women were going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark.

Before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way.

Having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the bishops, priests, religious men and women, and various lay people of different ranks and positions.

Beneath the two arms of the cross there were two angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28760029


Is Pope Benedict alluding to the third secret of Fatima when he said "The Lord is calling me to climb onto the mountain, to dedicate myself even more to prayer and meditation"?

Pope Benedict, speaking in his last Sunday address before stepping down, said he was following God's wishes and that he was not abandoning the Catholic Church.

Benedict, speaking in a strong voice to tens of thousands of people in St Peter's Square, said he would continue to serve and love the church by praying and meditating after his historic abdication on Thursday.

"The Lord is calling me to climb onto the mountain, to dedicate myself even more to prayer and meditation," he said to cheers of "Long Live the Pope".

[link to www.abc.net.au]
 Quoting: abc.net.au


Last Edited by Anti-GLP Effect on 02/24/2013 01:58 PM
So it is written, so it shall be done! [link to www.shugborough.info]
AndyJ
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02/24/2013 07:31 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
Saint Hildegard (12th Century)

The time is coming when princes and peoples will reject the authority of the Pope. Some countries will prefer their own Church rulers to the Pope. The German Empire will be divided.

Before the comet comes, many nations, the good excepted, will be scourged by want and famine. The great nation in the ocean that is inhabited by people of different tribes and descent will be devastated by earthquake, storm, and tidal wave. It will be divided and, in great part, submerged. That nation will also have many misfortunes at sea and lose its colonies.

[After the] great Comet, the great nation will be devastated by earthquakes, storms, and great waves of water, causing much want and plagues. The ocean will also flood many other countries, so that all coastal cities will live in fear, with many destroyed.

All sea coast cities will be fearful, and many of them will be destroyed by tidal waves, and most living creatures will be killed, and even those who escape will die from a horrible disease. For in none of those cities does a person live according to the Laws of God.

A powerful wind will rise in the North, carrying heavy fog and the densest dust, and it will fill their throats and eyes so that they will cease their butchery and be stricken with a great fear.

Comet is on its way!
[link to www.bbc.co.uk]
tandym

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02/24/2013 07:45 PM

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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
From reading various prophecies I have gleaned the following. Cardinal Tarcisio PIETRO Evasio Bertone who is from ROMANO Canavese, Italy will be elected Pope Pius XIII.

But, John Bosco's end time dream/prophecy in the 1800s says,

"But hardly is the Pontiff dead than another takes his place. The pilots, having met together, have elected the Pope so promptly that the news of the death of the Pope coincides with the news of the election of the successor. The adversaries begin to lose courage."

This has always been an impossibility as there is never a conclave until after the previous pontiff has died. Except for now. What of Benedict was to die and the news announced at the same time as the conclave? (I do wish Benedict well BTW)

So St Malachy's / Pius X and Don Bosco's prophecies would all be fulfilled.

Any thoughts?
 Quoting: AndyJ 35017899


Nice analysis.
4Evergirl
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02/24/2013 08:00 PM

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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
Saint Hildegard (12th Century)

The time is coming when princes and peoples will reject the authority of the Pope. Some countries will prefer their own Church rulers to the Pope. The German Empire will be divided.

Before the comet comes, many nations, the good excepted, will be scourged by want and famine. The great nation in the ocean that is inhabited by people of different tribes and descent will be devastated by earthquake, storm, and tidal wave. It will be divided and, in great part, submerged. That nation will also have many misfortunes at sea and lose its colonies.

[After the] great Comet, the great nation will be devastated by earthquakes, storms, and great waves of water, causing much want and plagues. The ocean will also flood many other countries, so that all coastal cities will live in fear, with many destroyed.

All sea coast cities will be fearful, and many of them will be destroyed by tidal waves, and most living creatures will be killed, and even those who escape will die from a horrible disease. For in none of those cities does a person live according to the Laws of God.

A powerful wind will rise in the North, carrying heavy fog and the densest dust, and it will fill their throats and eyes so that they will cease their butchery and be stricken with a great fear.

Comet is on its way!
[link to www.bbc.co.uk]
 Quoting: AndyJ 35017899


In William Thomas Walsh's account of the Miracles of Fatima he concludes with an interview with Sister Lucia, third seer of Fatima, he pointedly asks what will be the role of the US in the end-times struggle. Sister Lucia states the US will not be a player-period. I had often wondered why, thinking that we'd be too busy just trying to survive...now I think it is obvious why.

Russia will be the scourge that God uses to reprimand the world....after it spreads it's socialist errors.

Many priests and religious will suffer greatly for teaching in error God's Holy truths.

The Pope, indeed, will have much to suffer...
Definitely not made for this world--at least not this century.

...you are dangerous to everyone---not because you are ungifted, but because you embrace evil with your teachings. In so doing, in trying to be kind, to be unselfish, in trying to be nonjudgmental, you allow evil to become far more powerful than it otherwise would. You refuse to see evil, and so you welcome it among you. You allow it to exist. You give it power over you. You are a people who have welcomed death and refuse to denounce it. You are an empire naked to the shadow of evil. Terry Goodkind, NAKED EMPIRE
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2013 08:06 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
also from a different thread i found this...

Pope Pius X once had a vision:

I have seen one of my successors, of the same name [a future pope named Pius], who was fleeing over the dead bodies of his brethren. He will take refuge in some hiding place; but after a brief respite, he will die a cruel death. Respect for God has disappeared from human hearts. They wish to efface even God’s memory. This perversity is nothing less than the beginning of the last days of the world.

its all interesting with the current pope "quiting rome" if you will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34194126


lmao Quitting and resigning do to health issues are two different things.
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2013 08:19 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
bump
lukedog
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02/25/2013 11:37 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
also sr lucy said in 3rd secret, a 'bishop dressed in white' they assumed it was the holy father. benedict xvi will be still wearing white after abdicating and new title bishop of eremitus.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 11:41 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
From reading various prophecies I have gleaned the following. Cardinal Tarcisio PIETRO Evasio Bertone who is from ROMANO Canavese, Italy will be elected Pope Pius XIII.

But, John Bosco's end time dream/prophecy in the 1800s says,

"But hardly is the Pontiff dead than another takes his place. The pilots, having met together, have elected the Pope so promptly that the news of the death of the Pope coincides with the news of the election of the successor. The adversaries begin to lose courage."

This has always been an impossibility as there is never a conclave until after the previous pontiff has died. Except for now. What of Benedict was to die and the news announced at the same time as the conclave? (I do wish Benedict well BTW)

So St Malachy's / Pius X and Don Bosco's prophecies would all be fulfilled.

Any thoughts?
 Quoting: AndyJ 35017899


Tarcisio Pietro Evasio Bertone, S.D.B.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

S.D.B. stands for:

The Salesians of Don Bosco (or the Salesian Society, originally known as the Society of St. Francis de Sales) is a Roman Catholic religious institute founded in the late nineteenth century by Saint Don Bosco.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

When was the last time a member of the S.D.B was elected pope? uhoh
 Quoting: Anti-GLP Effect

never. but there are more salesian cardinals than cardinals from any other religoius order.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 11:47 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
also sr lucy said in 3rd secret, a 'bishop dressed in white' they assumed it was the holy father. benedict xvi will be still wearing white after abdicating and new title bishop of eremitus.
 Quoting: lukedog 34413902


Cardinals (and maybe other bishops) in tropical countries wear white (though with red or purple piping, so not like the pope). The link is to a pic of Cardinal Bertone as a bishop in white visiting the Dominican Republic



[link to en.wikipedia.org]
lukedog
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02/26/2013 12:16 AM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
in the firt part of the vision sr lucy see's a bishop dressed in white. at the end she see's the 'holy father killed' could this be the new bishop of rome and the new pope? or the same person?
AndyJ
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03/05/2013 05:50 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
I've just been doing a bit of thinking and this thought came to me.

In Acts 1 - Jesus tells the apostles that "you shall be my witnesses". So the role of Peter is to be a witness.

Now jump to Revelation 11 and it talks about 2 witnesses.

Revelation 11 describes “Two Witnesses” who will appear at the end-time. Benedict, as successor to Peter is one. But the Bible says that there will be two of them..............

On another theme - Petrus Romanus - I read a what I thought was a very good article this evening, saying that the next Pope, Petrus Romanus will be an extremely good Pope.

[link to catholicozarks.blogspot.co.uk]

Any thoughts?
AndyJ
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03/05/2013 06:05 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
I might be onto something here.

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Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2013 11:49 PM
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Re: pope Pius X vision is crazy!!
I might be onto something here.

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 Quoting: AndyJ 35017899


The first 50 Popes were martyred. The red shoes were to represent the blood of martyred Popes. In essence they are all witnesses, sometimes dry martyrdom and sometimes wet martyrdom. The 2 witnesses from Scripture are entirely different.

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