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Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33244429
United States
02/16/2013 12:27 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Just wait till the real bill arrives in 2014...


Tens of thousands of Americans who cannot get health insurance because of preexisting medical problems will be blocked from a program designed to help them because funding is running low.

Obama administration officials said Friday that the state-based “high-risk pools” set up under the 2010 health-care law will be closed to new applicants as soon as Saturday and no later than March 2, depending on the state.

But they stressed that coverage for about 100,000 people who are now enrolled in the high-risk pools will not be affected...


[link to www.washingtonpost.com]

ochange
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Maybe thats why they order all those guns an bullets when all these peeps realize how they been fucked over well they might be a little upset.rantskull_fingwall1doh1aloneviolin1dpanicahhhddddzombiessiren2beavis
Uncle Alyosha

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02/16/2013 12:28 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Just wait till we see the real bill for this boondoggle...

Absolute financial insanity...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


USA healthcare has been financial insanity for many years. Nothing new.
Best Wishes,
Uncle Alyosha

And here's a GLP-appropriate Bible verse (atheists may read, too):

God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong.

- 1 Corinthians 1:27
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 12:28 PM
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...


That is completely false. The U.S. has plenty of wealth, it just being horded at the top.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


So theft is okay with you people then? Or are you afraid of naming it for what it is?
 Quoting: Gnosis 2020


No theft is not OK. The real theft was when the commons were privatized. Private ownership of the means of production is theft of the commons, and private profit is exploitation of labor.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


bsflag

So it is ownership you have a problem with? I hope you have no locks or keys then. I'm sure you are using a library computer. The food you possess is fair for anyone's taking too. Each person with income realizes a form of what you call "private profit".

You may spit at the productive all you like, but without the productive, you have *nothing*.
 Quoting: Gnosis 2020


Workers, not capitalists, create all the material wealth in society, from raw materials that belong to the commons. As an employee is always paid less than they create for the employer, the employee is actually working at a loss. It is the employer who is stealing from the employee and from humanity. It isn't productivity that is the problem; rather, the inequitable productivity that benefits the capitalist at the expense of everyone else in society.
Anonymous Coward
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Indonesia
02/16/2013 12:33 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
it looks like a giant insurance company will collapse. US with high debt and keep increasing its debt exponentially, printing more and more money, and now have obligation for healthcare.. officially done 1dpanic
Gnosis 2020

User ID: 2107346
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02/16/2013 12:34 PM

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...


So theft is okay with you people then? Or are you afraid of naming it for what it is?
 Quoting: Gnosis 2020


No theft is not OK. The real theft was when the commons were privatized. Private ownership of the means of production is theft of the commons, and private profit is exploitation of labor.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


bsflag

So it is ownership you have a problem with? I hope you have no locks or keys then. I'm sure you are using a library computer. The food you possess is fair for anyone's taking too. Each person with income realizes a form of what you call "private profit".

You may spit at the productive all you like, but without the productive, you have *nothing*.
 Quoting: Gnosis 2020


Workers, not capitalists, create all the material wealth in society, from raw materials that belong to the commons. As an employee is always paid less than they create for the employer, the employee is actually working at a loss. It is the employer who is stealing from the employee and from humanity. It isn't productivity that is the problem; rather, the inequitable productivity that benefits the capitalist at the expense of everyone else in society.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


Again bsflag

So what if the employer decides that there is no need for the employee? There will be NO wealth for the employee then!

What happens if the employer doesn't innovate? Then someone else will have to take over.

What happens if the employee doesn't take the inventor's place? There will be no advancement of humanity at all.

What happens if the employee DOES take the inventor's place? Then that person will be accused of the tripe the left like throwing at them.

What the leftists describe is a zero-sum game. If someone has a lot of wealth, then there is less for someone else. But wealth isn't just pieces of gold with limited availability. Wealth is all but infinite - limited only by the productive nature of the human mind.

Until leftists figure this out, they will whine about social justice and the like. And as long as those whine about social justice and the like, there will be theft and tyranny.

Last Edited by Gnosis 2020 on 02/16/2013 12:35 PM
When everyone looks left, look right. Keep your eyes and your mind open...
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/16/2013 12:35 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Obamacare's never been about actually providing healthcare. Its a tool to DESTROY the healthcare system in this country and at the same time control us in ways we can't see yet. By the time we wake up to what the reality of this thing is, it'll be too late to save what was the best healthcare system on the planet.

Get whatever tests and operations you need now. Next year will be too late.
 Quoting: telling it straight


I second that and don't forget a biggie: THE DENTIST
 Quoting: JasmineinNM


Definitely the dentist! I dropped 30 grand on a dentist last year to make up for my lifetime of dental horror. Do it all in one year so the tax deduction is possible. I figure I can last the rest of my life without a real dentist if I absolutely have to. Plan for another country if necessary.
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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02/16/2013 12:36 PM

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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
It won't be long now till Obama comes for your 401K's and IRA's to finance this disaster.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33888885


Ayup.... I was just thinking the same thing
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28870983


The new Communist anthem...

"My wealth is your wealth, his wealth is my wealth..."
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Personal wealth is of limited value in the absence of social wealth. It is far better to be average in a wealthy, advanced society than to be fabulously wealthy in an otherwise poor society. Conservative ideology leads to a poor society dominated by the wealthy few. That is unacceptable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


So you would rather be Dominated by an unelected political class of "Party Members" in a Communist system?!?!?

Or do you think that you, being the useful idiot you are, are going to be one of those "Party Members"?

Because I got news for you...the Useful Idiots are the first to go...

See Russia (30 Million Dead), see China (50 Million Dead)...

Besides, what we have right now is barely recognizable as "Capitalism"...all systems around the world are morphing into a system that more resembles the Chinese Communist/Fascism model...

And that system only promotes more of what we already have and worse...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 02/16/2013 12:37 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 740208
United States
02/16/2013 12:38 PM

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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
I just want everyone to take notice of who is defending the Behemoth of Obamacare on this thread...Avowed Communists!!!
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/16/2013 12:39 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


Ohhhh I see now, So we have been a shitty country for the last 220 yearsscratching
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 12:40 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
I just want everyone to take notice of who is defending the Behemoth of Obamacare on this thread...Avowed Communists!!!
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have a single payer plan like all the other western industrialized nations. Unfortunately, conservative ideology and the power of the insurance industry has made that impossible, for now anyway.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 12:41 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


Ohhhh I see now, So we have been a shitty country for the last 220 yearsscratching
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3694399


Yes, but there's still hope if we'll only abandon conservatism once and for all.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34316516
United States
02/16/2013 12:42 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
...


No theft is not OK. The real theft was when the commons were privatized. Private ownership of the means of production is theft of the commons, and private profit is exploitation of labor.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


bsflag

So it is ownership you have a problem with? I hope you have no locks or keys then. I'm sure you are using a library computer. The food you possess is fair for anyone's taking too. Each person with income realizes a form of what you call "private profit".

You may spit at the productive all you like, but without the productive, you have *nothing*.
 Quoting: Gnosis 2020


Workers, not capitalists, create all the material wealth in society, from raw materials that belong to the commons. As an employee is always paid less than they create for the employer, the employee is actually working at a loss. It is the employer who is stealing from the employee and from humanity. It isn't productivity that is the problem; rather, the inequitable productivity that benefits the capitalist at the expense of everyone else in society.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


Again bsflag

So what if the employer decides that there is no need for the employee? There will be NO wealth for the employee then!

What happens if the employer doesn't innovate? Then someone else will have to take over.

What happens if the employee doesn't take the inventor's place? There will be no advancement of humanity at all.

What happens if the employee DOES take the inventor's place? Then that person will be accused of the tripe the left like throwing at them.

What the leftists describe is a zero-sum game. If someone has a lot of wealth, then there is less for someone else. But wealth isn't just pieces of gold with limited availability. Wealth is all but infinite - limited only by the productive nature of the human mind.

Until leftists figure this out, they will whine about social justice and the like. And as long as those whine about social justice and the like, there will be theft and tyranny.
 Quoting: Gnosis 2020


I don't see people who are employed by the government working for FREE. They're now making double what the private sector is getting, and most of them do nothing for it. Big welfare check with a job title attached.
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 740208
United States
02/16/2013 12:42 PM

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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
I just want everyone to take notice of who is defending the Behemoth of Obamacare on this thread...Avowed Communists!!!
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have a single payer plan like all the other western industrialized nations. Unfortunately, conservative ideology and the power of the insurance industry has made that impossible, for now anyway.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


So hey, rather than fix the holes in the system...lets give Communism a try...

Sorry, I'm not buying...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/16/2013 12:43 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


Yeah if you can find a Doctor that can speak English and takes Medicaid...

Meanwhile we get to pay the bill for it...

So tell me, where in the Constitution does it Enumerate the power for the Federal Government to take over all healthcare in this country?!?!?

You show me that, and I will get on board with you...
 Quoting: Saddletramp

 Quoting: Jonboy64 30856182


In the preamble: "to promote the general welfare"
plus...it was supported by all of us progressive individuals who support the President's vision for America to join the ranks of first world Nations who provide universal health care for their citizens...including those who cannot afford to pay a corporation to "insure" them, those who have preexisting conditions, and those who the insurance "corporations" abandon at the first sign of serious or costly illness.

The Bill passed both houses of Congress and was signed into Law by the President of the United States and then vetted by the Supreme Court! Case Closed. If you don't like it you can move to some third world backwater.
 Quoting: Jonboy64 30856182


What a fucking shill! The bill originated in the senate(disqualified immediately) and went through coercive manipulative tactics to "pass" both houses. Everything was bogus, including hiding language in "by reference" clauses.

Obama was in on the fix, and all the insiders got paid off one way or another.

The "law" was upheld by the turncoat supremes under a truly bogus "tax" hypothesis. Of course it's a tax, but it's hidden as a 2000 dollar assessment against every policy, or person without insurance.

I won't be payin', just sayin'.
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 12:44 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
BTW, "promote the general welfare" doesn't mean to force one perspective of general welfare.

Freedom trumps any of this crap.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1644184
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02/16/2013 12:45 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


It boggles the mind that someone as monumentally ignorant(wilfully or otherwise) as you so clearly are can figure out how to turn on a computer, let alone how to navigate to this site & post a comment. Are you just a shitty little SHILL or just another brain dead Ohbumma-bot Lemming? Just out of curiosity....Which would you kiss first, his ring, feet or ass?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17152779
United States
02/16/2013 12:47 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
BTW, "promote the general welfare" doesn't mean to force one perspective of general welfare.

Freedom trumps any of this crap.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34211220


Freedom is not absolute. Freedom must be limited for the well-being of society. It's OK though, because the benefits of a well-functioning society greatly outweigh any perceived benefits of absolute freedom, if there actually were such a thing.
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 740208
United States
02/16/2013 12:48 PM

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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
BTW, "promote the general welfare" doesn't mean to force one perspective of general welfare.

Freedom trumps any of this crap.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34211220


Communists have been gloming onto those four words for 60 years...of course they have to take them entirely out of context to use them, but hey...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Sbert

User ID: 31081261
United States
02/16/2013 12:49 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Indigent care has been thus far absorbed by the industry. From tax write offs, charity cases, philanthropy to hospitals, everyone gets emergent health care. The question at this point is who has been paying for it.

The problem is that those who are indigent and don't have healthcare always present in the 11th hour and cost a lot more. If they actually had access to doctors/pa's/np's and adequate preventive care, we could avoid some of these costs.

The other issue is litigation and the price of defensive medicine. The studies say that tort reform won't affect but <5 percent of cost, but what they fail to realize is that a doctor that's trained in this legal environment is going to practice defensive medicine for most of his career. Those trained in a new legal environment won't be about "getting that mri so I don't miss that 1/1,000,000 neuroblastoma."

Those of you who live in this paradise where healthcare equal for everyone should be available to everyone just don't get it.

If you want healthcare to be cheaper, then make the training shorter 5 years like other countries, make more doctors - free education - so there's no debt, then pay doctors less, make nurses education free as well, pa education free, np education free, decrease the time for those as well. Pay hospitals less, get rid of some expensive regulations so hospitals can cut some corners.

Basically, make healthcare worse but it will be cheaper.

You get what you pay for. That's how life is.
AlcoholicRunner

User ID: 32069520
United States
02/16/2013 12:49 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
It won't be long now till Obama comes for your 401K's and IRA's to finance this disaster.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33888885


Ayup.... I was just thinking the same thing
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28870983


The new Communist anthem...

"My wealth is your wealth, his wealth is my wealth..."
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Personal wealth is of limited value in the absence of social wealth. It is far better to be average in a wealthy, advanced society than to be fabulously wealthy in an otherwise poor society. Conservative ideology leads to a poor society dominated by the wealthy few. That is unacceptable.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


Bullshit33

What a load of BS. You get that from Media Matters?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34538643
United States
02/16/2013 12:50 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Obamacare's never been about actually providing healthcare. Its a tool to DESTROY the healthcare system in this country and at the same time control us in ways we can't see yet. By the time we wake up to what the reality of this thing is, it'll be too late to save what was the best healthcare system on the planet.

Get whatever tests and operations you need now. Next year will be too late.
 Quoting: telling it straight


Exactly - this was the plan.

Cloward Piven.
Sbert

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02/16/2013 12:52 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Obamacare's never been about actually providing healthcare. Its a tool to DESTROY the healthcare system in this country and at the same time control us in ways we can't see yet. By the time we wake up to what the reality of this thing is, it'll be too late to save what was the best healthcare system on the planet.

Get whatever tests and operations you need now. Next year will be too late.
 Quoting: telling it straight


Exactly - this was the plan.

Cloward Piven.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34538643


Yes, the system can't be sustained as obama intends it to be. Care will be worse, but everyone will have it. The select few will still be able to pay for the real elite stuff that allows for the real expensive stuff like transplants.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3694399
United States
02/16/2013 12:52 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


Yeah if you can find a Doctor that can speak English and takes Medicaid...

Meanwhile we get to pay the bill for it...

So tell me, where in the Constitution does it Enumerate the power for the Federal Government to take over all healthcare in this country?!?!?

You show me that, and I will get on board with you...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


You were already paying for it, you just weren't getting your money's worth. I don't give a flying fuck about the constitution; I say we throw it out and write a new one that addresses the issues of the 21st Century.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779



You should move to a country that will address those problems for you. Then you will see how great American principles actually are and how stupid you are for believing your entitled to something just because you were born.
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 740208
United States
02/16/2013 12:53 PM

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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Indigent care has been thus far absorbed by the industry. From tax write offs, charity cases, philanthropy to hospitals, everyone gets emergent health care. The question at this point is who has been paying for it.

The problem is that those who are indigent and don't have healthcare always present in the 11th hour and cost a lot more. If they actually had access to doctors/pa's/np's and adequate preventive care, we could avoid some of these costs.

The other issue is litigation and the price of defensive medicine. The studies say that tort reform won't affect but <5 percent of cost, but what they fail to realize is that a doctor that's trained in this legal environment is going to practice defensive medicine for most of his career. Those trained in a new legal environment won't be about "getting that mri so I don't miss that 1/1,000,000 neuroblastoma."

Those of you who live in this paradise where healthcare equal for everyone should be available to everyone just don't get it.

If you want healthcare to be cheaper, then make the training shorter 5 years like other countries, make more doctors - free education - so there's no debt, then pay doctors less, make nurses education free as well, pa education free, np education free, decrease the time for those as well. Pay hospitals less, get rid of some expensive regulations so hospitals can cut some corners.

Basically, make healthcare worse but it will be cheaper.

You get what you pay for. That's how life is.
 Quoting: Sbert


Or you could do what Obamacare is doing, making Healthcare both worse, and more expensive...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17152779
United States
02/16/2013 12:54 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


Yeah if you can find a Doctor that can speak English and takes Medicaid...

Meanwhile we get to pay the bill for it...

So tell me, where in the Constitution does it Enumerate the power for the Federal Government to take over all healthcare in this country?!?!?

You show me that, and I will get on board with you...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


You were already paying for it, you just weren't getting your money's worth. I don't give a flying fuck about the constitution; I say we throw it out and write a new one that addresses the issues of the 21st Century.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779



You should move to a country that will address those problems for you. Then you will see how great American principles actually are and how stupid you are for believing your entitled to something just because you were born.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3694399


Now I don't need to move to a better country, thanks to President Obama.
ehecatl

User ID: 34534195
Mexico
02/16/2013 12:56 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
I just got my premium increase for this year...25% increase, going to now cost me almost $5,000 per year for insurance I've never met the deductible on in ten years...
 Quoting: Saddletramp

My total basic annual living expenses are less than $2000 usd. That's nothing for me.
That means first of all that my life is care-free.

All Mexican citizens have basic but comprehensive medical, dental, and optical care, but the average Mexican worker is not required to pay income tax or fill out any forms.

Taxes come from businesses, and from import duties, not from workers.

If the social medicine seems too slow or inadequate, out of pocket medical and dental care is about 1/10th what it is in the US, for professional licensed care, or maybe less for care witchdoctors or traditional healers.

The only hitch is, is that it's buyer beware, because here you have the freedom to choose a professionally trained and licensed doctor, or a witchdoctor, if you choose.

It always seems to me that most people in the US are blind to the real foundation to the medical problem, and that is the pyramid power structure of the medical establishment that funnels 90% of the expenses to parasitic upper levels.

The Obamacare, is just another overlay of stupidity, a cloth thrown over the pyramid. The primary problem is the giant pyramid.

ALL this would be solved, simply by giving the people the freedom to choose any kind of medical care they want, regardless of effectiveness or competency. Some would choose better service, and some would choose worse.

This is the fundamental cornerstone that all these secondary problems are based on.

Last Edited by ehecatl on 02/16/2013 01:05 PM
Mr. Predictor
Mod Emeritus

User ID: 34544666
United States
02/16/2013 12:58 PM

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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until its "free"
6473madburger

a government study in 2008 and again in 2012 showed over 50% of the measured population were really, really stupid

“Barack Obama thinks his job is to lead the mob, not the country.”
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/16/2013 01:00 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


Yeah if you can find a Doctor that can speak English and takes Medicaid...

Meanwhile we get to pay the bill for it...

So tell me, where in the Constitution does it Enumerate the power for the Federal Government to take over all healthcare in this country?!?!?

You show me that, and I will get on board with you...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


You were already paying for it, you just weren't getting your money's worth. I don't give a flying fuck about the constitution; I say we throw it out and write a new one that addresses the issues of the 21st Century.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


I just wanted to highlight that part of Freeloader Shill boy's comments...

This is very instructive actually...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Yes, that bolded comment says it all. He's a piece of work.

Meanwhile, I expect nothing from this health care system. If you see me lying unconscious in the street, please, please, leave me there or if you are really kind, just load me in a cab and send me home. Please never send me to a medical institute under Obamacare where I can be stuffed in a corner for hours/days/weeks while they allocate their "limited resources according to priorities", butchered, irradiated, pilled to death, or euthanized. Even if it's (cough) "free".
Sbert

User ID: 31081261
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02/16/2013 01:01 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
Indigent care has been thus far absorbed by the industry. From tax write offs, charity cases, philanthropy to hospitals, everyone gets emergent health care. The question at this point is who has been paying for it.

The problem is that those who are indigent and don't have healthcare always present in the 11th hour and cost a lot more. If they actually had access to doctors/pa's/np's and adequate preventive care, we could avoid some of these costs.

The other issue is litigation and the price of defensive medicine. The studies say that tort reform won't affect but <5 percent of cost, but what they fail to realize is that a doctor that's trained in this legal environment is going to practice defensive medicine for most of his career. Those trained in a new legal environment won't be about "getting that mri so I don't miss that 1/1,000,000 neuroblastoma."

Those of you who live in this paradise where healthcare equal for everyone should be available to everyone just don't get it.

If you want healthcare to be cheaper, then make the training shorter 5 years like other countries, make more doctors - free education - so there's no debt, then pay doctors less, make nurses education free as well, pa education free, np education free, decrease the time for those as well. Pay hospitals less, get rid of some expensive regulations so hospitals can cut some corners.

Basically, make healthcare worse but it will be cheaper.

You get what you pay for. That's how life is.
 Quoting: Sbert


Or you could do what Obamacare is doing, making Healthcare both worse, and more expensive...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


LOL, I think the raw cost isn't going to change much, but who's paying for it definitely has. And those that are going to be be paying for it, can't afford it.

The system although not perfect now has been supported as I said by write offs, charity, etc. Now instead of the private system absorbing costs as they normally have and pricing accordingly (i.e. charging paying customers more akin to merchant charging more to make up for stealing), the government is going to pay for all the "stealing" than can occur/is ocurring. (lol)
Anonymous Coward
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02/16/2013 01:02 PM
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Re: Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning...
...


So theft is okay with you people then? Or are you afraid of naming it for what it is?
 Quoting: Gnosis 2020


No theft is not OK. The real theft was when the commons were privatized. Private ownership of the means of production is theft of the commons, and private profit is exploitation of labor.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779


bsflag

So it is ownership you have a problem with? I hope you have no locks or keys then. I'm sure you are using a library computer. The food you possess is fair for anyone's taking too. Each person with income realizes a form of what you call "private profit".

You may spit at the productive all you like, but without the productive, you have *nothing*.
 Quoting: Gnosis 2020


Workers, not capitalists, create all the material wealth in society, from raw materials that belong to the commons. As an employee is always paid less than they create for the employer, the employee is actually working at a loss. It is the employer who is stealing from the employee and from humanity. It isn't productivity that is the problem; rather, the inequitable productivity that benefits the capitalist at the expense of everyone else in society.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779

Think before spouting off blanket statements. Perhaps you perceive a world of only mega-corporations and employees.

What about the self-employed that produce and sell goods?

What about factory machines? Would you argue that they don't create material wealth.

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