Obamacare Broke Already, And It's Just Beginning... | |
Uncle Alyosha User ID: 34542929 United States 02/16/2013 12:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Just wait till we see the real bill for this boondoggle... Quoting: Saddletramp Absolute financial insanity... USA healthcare has been financial insanity for many years. Nothing new. Best Wishes, Uncle Alyosha And here's a GLP-appropriate Bible verse (atheists may read, too): God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong. - 1 Corinthians 1:27 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 17152779 United States 02/16/2013 12:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779 That is completely false. The U.S. has plenty of wealth, it just being horded at the top. So theft is okay with you people then? Or are you afraid of naming it for what it is? No theft is not OK. The real theft was when the commons were privatized. Private ownership of the means of production is theft of the commons, and private profit is exploitation of labor. So it is ownership you have a problem with? I hope you have no locks or keys then. I'm sure you are using a library computer. The food you possess is fair for anyone's taking too. Each person with income realizes a form of what you call "private profit". You may spit at the productive all you like, but without the productive, you have *nothing*. Workers, not capitalists, create all the material wealth in society, from raw materials that belong to the commons. As an employee is always paid less than they create for the employer, the employee is actually working at a loss. It is the employer who is stealing from the employee and from humanity. It isn't productivity that is the problem; rather, the inequitable productivity that benefits the capitalist at the expense of everyone else in society. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 17472661 Indonesia 02/16/2013 12:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Gnosis 2020 User ID: 2107346 United States 02/16/2013 12:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Gnosis 2020 So theft is okay with you people then? Or are you afraid of naming it for what it is? No theft is not OK. The real theft was when the commons were privatized. Private ownership of the means of production is theft of the commons, and private profit is exploitation of labor. So it is ownership you have a problem with? I hope you have no locks or keys then. I'm sure you are using a library computer. The food you possess is fair for anyone's taking too. Each person with income realizes a form of what you call "private profit". You may spit at the productive all you like, but without the productive, you have *nothing*. Workers, not capitalists, create all the material wealth in society, from raw materials that belong to the commons. As an employee is always paid less than they create for the employer, the employee is actually working at a loss. It is the employer who is stealing from the employee and from humanity. It isn't productivity that is the problem; rather, the inequitable productivity that benefits the capitalist at the expense of everyone else in society. Again So what if the employer decides that there is no need for the employee? There will be NO wealth for the employee then! What happens if the employer doesn't innovate? Then someone else will have to take over. What happens if the employee doesn't take the inventor's place? There will be no advancement of humanity at all. What happens if the employee DOES take the inventor's place? Then that person will be accused of the tripe the left like throwing at them. What the leftists describe is a zero-sum game. If someone has a lot of wealth, then there is less for someone else. But wealth isn't just pieces of gold with limited availability. Wealth is all but infinite - limited only by the productive nature of the human mind. Until leftists figure this out, they will whine about social justice and the like. And as long as those whine about social justice and the like, there will be theft and tyranny. Last Edited by Gnosis 2020 on 02/16/2013 12:35 PM When everyone looks left, look right. Keep your eyes and your mind open... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34211220 United States 02/16/2013 12:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Obamacare's never been about actually providing healthcare. Its a tool to DESTROY the healthcare system in this country and at the same time control us in ways we can't see yet. By the time we wake up to what the reality of this thing is, it'll be too late to save what was the best healthcare system on the planet. Quoting: telling it straight Get whatever tests and operations you need now. Next year will be too late. I second that and don't forget a biggie: THE DENTIST Definitely the dentist! I dropped 30 grand on a dentist last year to make up for my lifetime of dental horror. Do it all in one year so the tax deduction is possible. I figure I can last the rest of my life without a real dentist if I absolutely have to. Plan for another country if necessary. |
Saddletramp (OP) User ID: 740208 Puerto Rico 02/16/2013 12:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It won't be long now till Obama comes for your 401K's and IRA's to finance this disaster. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33888885 Ayup.... I was just thinking the same thing The new Communist anthem... "My wealth is your wealth, his wealth is my wealth..." Personal wealth is of limited value in the absence of social wealth. It is far better to be average in a wealthy, advanced society than to be fabulously wealthy in an otherwise poor society. Conservative ideology leads to a poor society dominated by the wealthy few. That is unacceptable. So you would rather be Dominated by an unelected political class of "Party Members" in a Communist system?!?!? Or do you think that you, being the useful idiot you are, are going to be one of those "Party Members"? Because I got news for you...the Useful Idiots are the first to go... See Russia (30 Million Dead), see China (50 Million Dead)... Besides, what we have right now is barely recognizable as "Capitalism"...all systems around the world are morphing into a system that more resembles the Chinese Communist/Fascism model... And that system only promotes more of what we already have and worse... Last Edited by Saddletramp on 02/16/2013 12:37 PM "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Saddletramp (OP) User ID: 740208 Puerto Rico 02/16/2013 12:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I just want everyone to take notice of who is defending the Behemoth of Obamacare on this thread...Avowed Communists!!! "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3694399 United States 02/16/2013 12:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779 Ohhhh I see now, So we have been a shitty country for the last 220 years |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 17152779 United States 02/16/2013 12:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I just want everyone to take notice of who is defending the Behemoth of Obamacare on this thread...Avowed Communists!!! Quoting: Saddletramp Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have a single payer plan like all the other western industrialized nations. Unfortunately, conservative ideology and the power of the insurance industry has made that impossible, for now anyway. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 17152779 United States 02/16/2013 12:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779 Ohhhh I see now, So we have been a shitty country for the last 220 years Yes, but there's still hope if we'll only abandon conservatism once and for all. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34316516 United States 02/16/2013 12:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779 No theft is not OK. The real theft was when the commons were privatized. Private ownership of the means of production is theft of the commons, and private profit is exploitation of labor. So it is ownership you have a problem with? I hope you have no locks or keys then. I'm sure you are using a library computer. The food you possess is fair for anyone's taking too. Each person with income realizes a form of what you call "private profit". You may spit at the productive all you like, but without the productive, you have *nothing*. Workers, not capitalists, create all the material wealth in society, from raw materials that belong to the commons. As an employee is always paid less than they create for the employer, the employee is actually working at a loss. It is the employer who is stealing from the employee and from humanity. It isn't productivity that is the problem; rather, the inequitable productivity that benefits the capitalist at the expense of everyone else in society. Again So what if the employer decides that there is no need for the employee? There will be NO wealth for the employee then! What happens if the employer doesn't innovate? Then someone else will have to take over. What happens if the employee doesn't take the inventor's place? There will be no advancement of humanity at all. What happens if the employee DOES take the inventor's place? Then that person will be accused of the tripe the left like throwing at them. What the leftists describe is a zero-sum game. If someone has a lot of wealth, then there is less for someone else. But wealth isn't just pieces of gold with limited availability. Wealth is all but infinite - limited only by the productive nature of the human mind. Until leftists figure this out, they will whine about social justice and the like. And as long as those whine about social justice and the like, there will be theft and tyranny. I don't see people who are employed by the government working for FREE. They're now making double what the private sector is getting, and most of them do nothing for it. Big welfare check with a job title attached. |
Saddletramp (OP) User ID: 740208 Puerto Rico 02/16/2013 12:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I just want everyone to take notice of who is defending the Behemoth of Obamacare on this thread...Avowed Communists!!! Quoting: Saddletramp Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have a single payer plan like all the other western industrialized nations. Unfortunately, conservative ideology and the power of the insurance industry has made that impossible, for now anyway. So hey, rather than fix the holes in the system...lets give Communism a try... Sorry, I'm not buying... "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34211220 United States 02/16/2013 12:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779 Yeah if you can find a Doctor that can speak English and takes Medicaid... Meanwhile we get to pay the bill for it... So tell me, where in the Constitution does it Enumerate the power for the Federal Government to take over all healthcare in this country?!?!? You show me that, and I will get on board with you... In the preamble: "to promote the general welfare" plus...it was supported by all of us progressive individuals who support the President's vision for America to join the ranks of first world Nations who provide universal health care for their citizens...including those who cannot afford to pay a corporation to "insure" them, those who have preexisting conditions, and those who the insurance "corporations" abandon at the first sign of serious or costly illness. The Bill passed both houses of Congress and was signed into Law by the President of the United States and then vetted by the Supreme Court! Case Closed. If you don't like it you can move to some third world backwater. What a fucking shill! The bill originated in the senate(disqualified immediately) and went through coercive manipulative tactics to "pass" both houses. Everything was bogus, including hiding language in "by reference" clauses. Obama was in on the fix, and all the insiders got paid off one way or another. The "law" was upheld by the turncoat supremes under a truly bogus "tax" hypothesis. Of course it's a tax, but it's hidden as a 2000 dollar assessment against every policy, or person without insurance. I won't be payin', just sayin'. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34211220 United States 02/16/2013 12:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1644184 United States 02/16/2013 12:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779 It boggles the mind that someone as monumentally ignorant(wilfully or otherwise) as you so clearly are can figure out how to turn on a computer, let alone how to navigate to this site & post a comment. Are you just a shitty little SHILL or just another brain dead Ohbumma-bot Lemming? Just out of curiosity....Which would you kiss first, his ring, feet or ass? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 17152779 United States 02/16/2013 12:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | BTW, "promote the general welfare" doesn't mean to force one perspective of general welfare. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34211220 Freedom trumps any of this crap. Freedom is not absolute. Freedom must be limited for the well-being of society. It's OK though, because the benefits of a well-functioning society greatly outweigh any perceived benefits of absolute freedom, if there actually were such a thing. |
Saddletramp (OP) User ID: 740208 Puerto Rico 02/16/2013 12:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | BTW, "promote the general welfare" doesn't mean to force one perspective of general welfare. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34211220 Freedom trumps any of this crap. Communists have been gloming onto those four words for 60 years...of course they have to take them entirely out of context to use them, but hey... "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Sbert User ID: 31081261 United States 02/16/2013 12:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Indigent care has been thus far absorbed by the industry. From tax write offs, charity cases, philanthropy to hospitals, everyone gets emergent health care. The question at this point is who has been paying for it. The problem is that those who are indigent and don't have healthcare always present in the 11th hour and cost a lot more. If they actually had access to doctors/pa's/np's and adequate preventive care, we could avoid some of these costs. The other issue is litigation and the price of defensive medicine. The studies say that tort reform won't affect but <5 percent of cost, but what they fail to realize is that a doctor that's trained in this legal environment is going to practice defensive medicine for most of his career. Those trained in a new legal environment won't be about "getting that mri so I don't miss that 1/1,000,000 neuroblastoma." Those of you who live in this paradise where healthcare equal for everyone should be available to everyone just don't get it. If you want healthcare to be cheaper, then make the training shorter 5 years like other countries, make more doctors - free education - so there's no debt, then pay doctors less, make nurses education free as well, pa education free, np education free, decrease the time for those as well. Pay hospitals less, get rid of some expensive regulations so hospitals can cut some corners. Basically, make healthcare worse but it will be cheaper. You get what you pay for. That's how life is. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32069520 United States 02/16/2013 12:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It won't be long now till Obama comes for your 401K's and IRA's to finance this disaster. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33888885 Ayup.... I was just thinking the same thing The new Communist anthem... "My wealth is your wealth, his wealth is my wealth..." Personal wealth is of limited value in the absence of social wealth. It is far better to be average in a wealthy, advanced society than to be fabulously wealthy in an otherwise poor society. Conservative ideology leads to a poor society dominated by the wealthy few. That is unacceptable. :Bullshit33: What a load of BS. You get that from Media Matters? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34538643 United States 02/16/2013 12:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Obamacare's never been about actually providing healthcare. Its a tool to DESTROY the healthcare system in this country and at the same time control us in ways we can't see yet. By the time we wake up to what the reality of this thing is, it'll be too late to save what was the best healthcare system on the planet. Quoting: telling it straight Get whatever tests and operations you need now. Next year will be too late. Exactly - this was the plan. Cloward Piven. |
Sbert User ID: 31081261 United States 02/16/2013 12:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Obamacare's never been about actually providing healthcare. Its a tool to DESTROY the healthcare system in this country and at the same time control us in ways we can't see yet. By the time we wake up to what the reality of this thing is, it'll be too late to save what was the best healthcare system on the planet. Quoting: telling it straight Get whatever tests and operations you need now. Next year will be too late. Exactly - this was the plan. Cloward Piven. Yes, the system can't be sustained as obama intends it to be. Care will be worse, but everyone will have it. The select few will still be able to pay for the real elite stuff that allows for the real expensive stuff like transplants. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 3694399 United States 02/16/2013 12:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779 Yeah if you can find a Doctor that can speak English and takes Medicaid... Meanwhile we get to pay the bill for it... So tell me, where in the Constitution does it Enumerate the power for the Federal Government to take over all healthcare in this country?!?!? You show me that, and I will get on board with you... You were already paying for it, you just weren't getting your money's worth. I don't give a flying fuck about the constitution; I say we throw it out and write a new one that addresses the issues of the 21st Century. You should move to a country that will address those problems for you. Then you will see how great American principles actually are and how stupid you are for believing your entitled to something just because you were born. |
Saddletramp (OP) User ID: 740208 Puerto Rico 02/16/2013 12:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Indigent care has been thus far absorbed by the industry. From tax write offs, charity cases, philanthropy to hospitals, everyone gets emergent health care. The question at this point is who has been paying for it. Quoting: Sbert The problem is that those who are indigent and don't have healthcare always present in the 11th hour and cost a lot more. If they actually had access to doctors/pa's/np's and adequate preventive care, we could avoid some of these costs. The other issue is litigation and the price of defensive medicine. The studies say that tort reform won't affect but <5 percent of cost, but what they fail to realize is that a doctor that's trained in this legal environment is going to practice defensive medicine for most of his career. Those trained in a new legal environment won't be about "getting that mri so I don't miss that 1/1,000,000 neuroblastoma." Those of you who live in this paradise where healthcare equal for everyone should be available to everyone just don't get it. If you want healthcare to be cheaper, then make the training shorter 5 years like other countries, make more doctors - free education - so there's no debt, then pay doctors less, make nurses education free as well, pa education free, np education free, decrease the time for those as well. Pay hospitals less, get rid of some expensive regulations so hospitals can cut some corners. Basically, make healthcare worse but it will be cheaper. You get what you pay for. That's how life is. Or you could do what Obamacare is doing, making Healthcare both worse, and more expensive... "And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius "Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..." "We don't rent pigs!" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 17152779 United States 02/16/2013 12:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779 Yeah if you can find a Doctor that can speak English and takes Medicaid... Meanwhile we get to pay the bill for it... So tell me, where in the Constitution does it Enumerate the power for the Federal Government to take over all healthcare in this country?!?!? You show me that, and I will get on board with you... You were already paying for it, you just weren't getting your money's worth. I don't give a flying fuck about the constitution; I say we throw it out and write a new one that addresses the issues of the 21st Century. You should move to a country that will address those problems for you. Then you will see how great American principles actually are and how stupid you are for believing your entitled to something just because you were born. Now I don't need to move to a better country, thanks to President Obama. |
ehecatl User ID: 34534195 Mexico 02/16/2013 12:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I just got my premium increase for this year...25% increase, going to now cost me almost $5,000 per year for insurance I've never met the deductible on in ten years... Quoting: Saddletramp My total basic annual living expenses are less than $2000 usd. That's nothing for me. That means first of all that my life is care-free. All Mexican citizens have basic but comprehensive medical, dental, and optical care, but the average Mexican worker is not required to pay income tax or fill out any forms. Taxes come from businesses, and from import duties, not from workers. If the social medicine seems too slow or inadequate, out of pocket medical and dental care is about 1/10th what it is in the US, for professional licensed care, or maybe less for care witchdoctors or traditional healers. The only hitch is, is that it's buyer beware, because here you have the freedom to choose a professionally trained and licensed doctor, or a witchdoctor, if you choose. It always seems to me that most people in the US are blind to the real foundation to the medical problem, and that is the pyramid power structure of the medical establishment that funnels 90% of the expenses to parasitic upper levels. The Obamacare, is just another overlay of stupidity, a cloth thrown over the pyramid. The primary problem is the giant pyramid. ALL this would be solved, simply by giving the people the freedom to choose any kind of medical care they want, regardless of effectiveness or competency. Some would choose better service, and some would choose worse. This is the fundamental cornerstone that all these secondary problems are based on. Last Edited by ehecatl on 02/16/2013 01:05 PM |
Mr. Predictor Senior Forum Moderator User ID: 34544666 United States 02/16/2013 12:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34533072 United States 02/16/2013 01:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fortunately, my state will opt into the Medicaid expansion. That means I will never be without insurance again beginning next January. It also means that never again will I have to file bankruptcy for a life-saving operation. President Obama is definitely moving the country in the right direction, and those who can't see this are fools. A civilized country ensures the health of its citizens, and a shitty country does not. That's why this needs to happen regardless of the cost. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17152779 Yeah if you can find a Doctor that can speak English and takes Medicaid... Meanwhile we get to pay the bill for it... So tell me, where in the Constitution does it Enumerate the power for the Federal Government to take over all healthcare in this country?!?!? You show me that, and I will get on board with you... You were already paying for it, you just weren't getting your money's worth. I don't give a flying fuck about the constitution; I say we throw it out and write a new one that addresses the issues of the 21st Century. I just wanted to highlight that part of Freeloader Shill boy's comments... This is very instructive actually... Yes, that bolded comment says it all. He's a piece of work. Meanwhile, I expect nothing from this health care system. If you see me lying unconscious in the street, please, please, leave me there or if you are really kind, just load me in a cab and send me home. Please never send me to a medical institute under Obamacare where I can be stuffed in a corner for hours/days/weeks while they allocate their "limited resources according to priorities", butchered, irradiated, pilled to death, or euthanized. Even if it's (cough) "free". |
Sbert User ID: 31081261 United States 02/16/2013 01:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Indigent care has been thus far absorbed by the industry. From tax write offs, charity cases, philanthropy to hospitals, everyone gets emergent health care. The question at this point is who has been paying for it. Quoting: Sbert The problem is that those who are indigent and don't have healthcare always present in the 11th hour and cost a lot more. If they actually had access to doctors/pa's/np's and adequate preventive care, we could avoid some of these costs. The other issue is litigation and the price of defensive medicine. The studies say that tort reform won't affect but <5 percent of cost, but what they fail to realize is that a doctor that's trained in this legal environment is going to practice defensive medicine for most of his career. Those trained in a new legal environment won't be about "getting that mri so I don't miss that 1/1,000,000 neuroblastoma." Those of you who live in this paradise where healthcare equal for everyone should be available to everyone just don't get it. If you want healthcare to be cheaper, then make the training shorter 5 years like other countries, make more doctors - free education - so there's no debt, then pay doctors less, make nurses education free as well, pa education free, np education free, decrease the time for those as well. Pay hospitals less, get rid of some expensive regulations so hospitals can cut some corners. Basically, make healthcare worse but it will be cheaper. You get what you pay for. That's how life is. Or you could do what Obamacare is doing, making Healthcare both worse, and more expensive... LOL, I think the raw cost isn't going to change much, but who's paying for it definitely has. And those that are going to be be paying for it, can't afford it. The system although not perfect now has been supported as I said by write offs, charity, etc. Now instead of the private system absorbing costs as they normally have and pricing accordingly (i.e. charging paying customers more akin to merchant charging more to make up for stealing), the government is going to pay for all the "stealing" than can occur/is ocurring. (lol) |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 26831640 United States 02/16/2013 01:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Gnosis 2020 So theft is okay with you people then? Or are you afraid of naming it for what it is? No theft is not OK. The real theft was when the commons were privatized. Private ownership of the means of production is theft of the commons, and private profit is exploitation of labor. So it is ownership you have a problem with? I hope you have no locks or keys then. I'm sure you are using a library computer. The food you possess is fair for anyone's taking too. Each person with income realizes a form of what you call "private profit". You may spit at the productive all you like, but without the productive, you have *nothing*. Workers, not capitalists, create all the material wealth in society, from raw materials that belong to the commons. As an employee is always paid less than they create for the employer, the employee is actually working at a loss. It is the employer who is stealing from the employee and from humanity. It isn't productivity that is the problem; rather, the inequitable productivity that benefits the capitalist at the expense of everyone else in society. Think before spouting off blanket statements. Perhaps you perceive a world of only mega-corporations and employees. What about the self-employed that produce and sell goods? What about factory machines? Would you argue that they don't create material wealth. |
Bluebird User ID: 27748381 United States 02/16/2013 01:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Obamacare's never been about actually providing healthcare. Its a tool to DESTROY the healthcare system in this country and at the same time control us in ways we can't see yet. By the time we wake up to what the reality of this thing is, it'll be too late to save what was the best healthcare system on the planet. Quoting: telling it straight Get whatever tests and operations you need now. Next year will be too late. Exactly - this was the plan. Cloward Piven. Yes, the system can't be sustained as obama intends it to be. Care will be worse, but everyone will have it. The select few will still be able to pay for the real elite stuff that allows for the real expensive stuff like transplants. Right and us peons will get basically first aid. Things like cardiac stents will be for the likes of Bill Clinton but not the average Joe. We'll all have our great big share of lousy healtcare delivered by nurses and physician's assistants and seldom if ever seeing a real physician. One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one. Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway. Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy |