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LunaHominem

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02/18/2013 06:50 AM
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Those fancy satellites aren't hunting for 5 meter and smaller asteroids, they're looking at the sun.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


So, let me get this straight, NASA can see (and livestream) a 50 meter DA14 but not a 17 meter Chelyabinsk? Yeah right. "Dayside" my ass.
Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 06:51 AM

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Those fancy satellites aren't hunting for 5 meter and smaller asteroids, they're looking at the sun.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


So, let me get this straight, NASA can see (and livestream) a 50 meter DA14 but not a 17 meter Chelyabinsk? Yeah right. "Dayside" my ass.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


It was on the dayside. Yes, that matters. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. It's unbelievable; you can't even grasp the most basic of concepts.
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02/18/2013 06:52 AM
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So, let me get this straight, NASA can see DA14 but can't the numerous asteroids of similar size that have been falling since the Chelyabinsk asteroid? Yeah right.

The meteors seen since are nowhere near the size of DA14. Not even close.
NASA can look directly at the sun with all those fancy satellites, but can't see asteroids coming from our "dayside". No, not buying it. Sorry, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: Luna

Those fancy satellites aren't hunting for 5 meter and smaller asteroids, they're looking at the sun.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


What is your view on the recent meteors? More than average? Higher magnitude than average? (i.e. Japan through to Florida)
LunaHominem

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02/18/2013 06:52 AM
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...


Absolute conjecture. Absolute opinion.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

No, absolute fact. The trajectory of DA14 is incompatible both with your claim of it hitting earth, and with your claim of hitting in the Urals.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Not unless DA14 was a cluster of large rocks and some of the smaller rocks out front entered our gravitational field, slowed down came into orbit
 Quoting: LunaHominem

That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
You got to stop thinking in such one dimensional, linear terms, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: luna

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


It requires more calculation.

Even NASA admits that their estimates of the Chelyabinsk data is preliminary and changing.

The fact that you dismiss the possibility offhand is a red flag.
Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 06:53 AM

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So, let me get this straight, NASA can see DA14 but can't the numerous asteroids of similar size that have been falling since the Chelyabinsk asteroid? Yeah right.

The meteors seen since are nowhere near the size of DA14. Not even close.
NASA can look directly at the sun with all those fancy satellites, but can't see asteroids coming from our "dayside". No, not buying it. Sorry, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: Luna

Those fancy satellites aren't hunting for 5 meter and smaller asteroids, they're looking at the sun.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


What is your view on the recent meteors? More than average? Higher magnitude than average? (i.e. Japan through to Florida)
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


I saw the videos of the florida one. Meh. It was ok, but I've seen a few like that here before, nothing terribly out of the ordinary. February has historically been a good month for fireballs.
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Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 06:54 AM

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No, absolute fact. The trajectory of DA14 is incompatible both with your claim of it hitting earth, and with your claim of hitting in the Urals.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Not unless DA14 was a cluster of large rocks and some of the smaller rocks out front entered our gravitational field, slowed down came into orbit
 Quoting: LunaHominem

That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
You got to stop thinking in such one dimensional, linear terms, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: luna

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


It requires more calculation.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

No, it doesn't. I know what the orbit of DA14 is and I know for a fact that it cannot be involved with the Chelyabinsk meteor.
Even NASA admits that their estimates of the Chelyabinsk data is preliminary and changing.
 Quoting: Luna

None of which allows for the possibility of it being DA14 as you claimed.
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LunaHominem

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02/18/2013 06:55 AM
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So, let me get this straight, NASA can see DA14 but can't the numerous asteroids of similar size that have been falling since the Chelyabinsk asteroid? Yeah right.

The meteors seen since are nowhere near the size of DA14. Not even close.
NASA can look directly at the sun with all those fancy satellites, but can't see asteroids coming from our "dayside". No, not buying it. Sorry, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: Luna

Those fancy satellites aren't hunting for 5 meter and smaller asteroids, they're looking at the sun.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


What is your view on the recent meteors? More than average? Higher magnitude than average? (i.e. Japan through to Florida)
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


All the video and audio that I have observed indicates that these are large objects.

The frequency of reports and the close proximity to the Chelyabinsk asteroid and the passing of DA14 indicates that these objects are not a "cosmic coincidence."
Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 06:58 AM

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All the video and audio that I have observed indicates that these are large objects.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


Then clearly you don't know the difference between a large object and a small one. Nothing since the Russian meteor has been even close to that size, and that meteor itself was nowhere near the size of DA14.
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LunaHominem

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02/18/2013 07:01 AM
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Those fancy satellites aren't hunting for 5 meter and smaller asteroids, they're looking at the sun.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


So, let me get this straight, NASA can see (and livestream) a 50 meter DA14 but not a 17 meter Chelyabinsk? Yeah right. "Dayside" my ass.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


It was on the dayside. Yes, that matters. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. It's unbelievable; you can't even grasp the most basic of concepts.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


So, NASA can look directly at the sun, can positively identify 50 meter asteroids for you to track, but can't see a 17 meter killer asteroid from the "dayside". Nope, not buying it.

Last Edited by LunaHominem on 02/18/2013 07:01 AM
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 07:02 AM
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Well done mr. Astro!

Sorry you had to take all the abuse - but I appreciate your time to inform those of us that understand what goes on in the heavens. Thank you.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 07:02 AM
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All the video and audio that I have observed indicates that these are large objects.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


Then clearly you don't know the difference between a large object and a small one. Nothing since the Russian meteor has been even close to that size, and that meteor itself was nowhere near the size of DA14.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Hey Astro Mut

What about that kill shot that was caught on video that brought down the Russian fireball?

Do you have an opinion on what it was?
LunaHominem

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02/18/2013 07:03 AM
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All the video and audio that I have observed indicates that these are large objects.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


Then clearly you don't know the difference between a large object and a small one. Nothing since the Russian meteor has been even close to that size, and that meteor itself was nowhere near the size of DA14.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Actually, everything since the Chelyabinsk asteroid has been closer to the size of the Chelyabinsk asteroid than your ordinary "meteor".
Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 07:03 AM

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All the video and audio that I have observed indicates that these are large objects.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


Then clearly you don't know the difference between a large object and a small one. Nothing since the Russian meteor has been even close to that size, and that meteor itself was nowhere near the size of DA14.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Hey Astro Mut

What about that kill shot that was caught on video that brought down the Russian fireball?

Do you have an opinion on what it was?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34399218


Not yet. That was interesting.
astrobanner2
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 07:05 AM
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All the video and audio that I have observed indicates that these are large objects.
 Quoting: LunaHominem


Then clearly you don't know the difference between a large object and a small one. Nothing since the Russian meteor has been even close to that size, and that meteor itself was nowhere near the size of DA14.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Hey Astro Mut

What about that kill shot that was caught on video that brought down the Russian fireball?

Do you have an opinion on what it was?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34399218


Not yet. That was interesting.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


It is either CGI or a technology not known to the vast majority of us shclubs!
LunaHominem

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02/18/2013 07:07 AM
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Absolute conjecture. Absolute opinion.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

No, absolute fact. The trajectory of DA14 is incompatible both with your claim of it hitting earth, and with your claim of hitting in the Urals.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Not unless DA14 was a cluster of large rocks and some of the smaller rocks out front entered our gravitational field, slowed down came into orbit
 Quoting: LunaHominem

That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
You got to stop thinking in such one dimensional, linear terms, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: luna

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.

It is possible in theory and David Dunham was on the record stating as much last year.

It simply requires more calculation which you are predictably reluctant to do because you have already made up your mind that it is not possible. I smell a ratdance
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 07:07 AM
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But yet it is still unproven if it is da14 in astromut his picture.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27459048


It is. It would take someone who knows the subject about 5 minutes to verify that, tops.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Of course I can through, within seconds, the coordinates into starry night or stellarium but that still proves nothing.
Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 07:10 AM

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Re: < * < * < - Meteor / Fireball Watch - > * > * >
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No, absolute fact. The trajectory of DA14 is incompatible both with your claim of it hitting earth, and with your claim of hitting in the Urals.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Not unless DA14 was a cluster of large rocks and some of the smaller rocks out front entered our gravitational field, slowed down came into orbit
 Quoting: LunaHominem

That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
You got to stop thinking in such one dimensional, linear terms, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: luna

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
It is possible in theory and David Dunham was on the record stating as much last year.
 Quoting: Luna

Appeal to authority. I have already presented a multitude of videos and calculations showing that DA14 could not and would not hit earth at all.
astrobanner2
LunaHominem

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02/18/2013 07:12 AM
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Not unless DA14 was a cluster of large rocks and some of the smaller rocks out front entered our gravitational field, slowed down came into orbit
 Quoting: LunaHominem

That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
You got to stop thinking in such one dimensional, linear terms, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: luna

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
It is possible in theory and David Dunham was on the record stating as much last year.
 Quoting: Luna

Appeal to authority. I have already presented a multitude of videos and calculations showing that DA14 could not and would not hit earth at all.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


So, I can't appeal to an authority but you can appeal to your own authority?

Nope, not buying it.
Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 07:14 AM

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But yet it is still unproven if it is da14 in astromut his picture.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27459048


It is. It would take someone who knows the subject about 5 minutes to verify that, tops.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Of course I can through, within seconds, the coordinates into starry night or stellarium but that still proves nothing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27459048


Neither of those programs are necessary nor are they well suited for the job. Let me put it to you like this, it did not take me much actual time spent analyzing this image to figure out not only that the coordinates initially given for it by Gillson were a lie, but to also correctly identify the comet in the image (not based on any kind of morphologic recognition either) and when exactly it was taken. All of that was considerably more difficult than verifying that my photo is indeed of 2012 DA14 since you already have far more info than you need to verify it.
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
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02/18/2013 07:15 AM
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The stripe which is according to you da14. This stripe is there due to the distance da14 travelled as long as the camera eye was opened.

What I am trying to do is to check if the travelled distance is in accordance to the speed of the rock.
Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 07:16 AM

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...

That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
...

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
It is possible in theory and David Dunham was on the record stating as much last year.
 Quoting: Luna

Appeal to authority. I have already presented a multitude of videos and calculations showing that DA14 could not and would not hit earth at all.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


So, I can't appeal to an authority but you can appeal to your own authority?

Nope, not buying it.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I have already presented my calculations and analysis showing that it would not hit us. I verified this with empirical data of the asteroid after you claimed it hit us. If you cannot accept that, then you are beyond all help and facts and evidence do not matter to you.
astrobanner2
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 07:17 AM
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Not unless DA14 was a cluster of large rocks and some of the smaller rocks out front entered our gravitational field, slowed down came into orbit
 Quoting: LunaHominem

That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
You got to stop thinking in such one dimensional, linear terms, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: luna

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
It is possible in theory and David Dunham was on the record stating as much last year.
 Quoting: Luna

Appeal to authority. I have already presented a multitude of videos and calculations showing that DA14 could not and would not hit earth at all.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Why dont you just admit it. You can do ALL the calculations and formulas you want, but if Mother Nature wants to smack us upside the head.Stop wasting your time and effort.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 07:18 AM
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Here is something to help keep-you-up-to-date along with what actually happens that we read here on GLP.

There is a very long list of these sites. I just picked this one because it was one of many at the top and actually has a calendar; so it says:

Astronomy Calendar of Celestial Events
for Calendar Year 2013:
[link to www.seasky.org]
LunaHominem

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02/18/2013 07:19 AM
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Not unless DA14 was a cluster of large rocks and some of the smaller rocks out front entered our gravitational field, slowed down came into orbit
 Quoting: LunaHominem

That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
You got to stop thinking in such one dimensional, linear terms, Dr. Astro.
 Quoting: luna

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


We don't have all the data on the Chelyabinsk asteroid. Nothing is certain at this point, whether it be size, mass, path, etc. NASA and the Russian differ wildly on key points.

What we do know is that it occurred over the Chelyabinsk region. We know that it unleashed tremendous energy into the atmosphere upon breaking up.

We also know that DA14 (or a remnant fragment of the DA14 cluster) would later pass over the exact same Chelyabinsk region.

Any good astronomer in their right mind would be looking into all the possibilities that these two events were related. They would not simply accept this as a "cosmic coincidence."

Last Edited by LunaHominem on 02/18/2013 07:20 AM
Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 07:20 AM

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...

That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
...

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
It is possible in theory and David Dunham was on the record stating as much last year.
 Quoting: Luna

Appeal to authority. I have already presented a multitude of videos and calculations showing that DA14 could not and would not hit earth at all.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Why dont you just admit it. You can do ALL the calculations and formulas you want, but if Mother Nature wants to smack us upside the head.Stop wasting your time and effort.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4916921


I will agree that I've wasted my time and effort; some people just won't accept any amount of evidence.
astrobanner2
Dr. Astro
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02/18/2013 07:21 AM

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Re: < * < * < - Meteor / Fireball Watch - > * > * >
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That's not how it works in real life. Wrong part of the planet entirely, even if you bent the trajectory of DA14 towards earth. Even if it hit the atmosphere in such a way as to slow it into orbit temporarily, the latitude of perigee would still not allow for an impact in the Urals.
...

You have got to study basic celestial mechanics. I know what the hell I'm talking about.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


We don't have all the data on the Chelyabinsk asteroid. Nothing is certain at this point, whether it be size, mass, path, etc.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

Completely irrelevant; we DO have enough data on DA14 to know that it was not invovled.
astrobanner2
musicadi

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02/18/2013 07:21 AM
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...good, some more doom material

5a
God has no enemies! God is LOVE! Love is the most powerful weapon in the world. All who try to play God are wasting their time and will get kicked in the ass over and over again until they learn their lesson! PS. I'M HUNGARIAN!
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 07:22 AM
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Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
It is possible in theory and David Dunham was on the record stating as much last year.
 Quoting: Luna

Appeal to authority. I have already presented a multitude of videos and calculations showing that DA14 could not and would not hit earth at all.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Why dont you just admit it. You can do ALL the calculations and formulas you want, but if Mother Nature wants to smack us upside the head.Stop wasting your time and effort.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4916921


I will agree that I've wasted my time and effort; some people just won't accept any amount of evidence.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

You can lead a horse to water.....
LunaHominem

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02/18/2013 07:24 AM
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Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


We don't have all the data on the Chelyabinsk asteroid. Nothing is certain at this point, whether it be size, mass, path, etc.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

Completely irrelevant; we DO have enough data on DA14 to know that it was not invovled.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


No, we have some overexposed, blurry pictures.

Not enough evidence to convince me that DA14 was not a cluster of rocks, some of which have entered our atmosphere.
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02/18/2013 07:25 AM
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Well, all the particulars would have to be worked. Multiple scenarios would have to be worked involving DA14 clusters of varying lengths and sizes.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

I've already studied the orbit in great detail. It is incompatible with your claim. It cannot have hit the Urals. At all.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


We don't have all the data on the Chelyabinsk asteroid. Nothing is certain at this point, whether it be size, mass, path, etc.
 Quoting: LunaHominem

Completely irrelevant; we DO have enough data on DA14 to know that it was not invovled.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Dr. Astro, do you ever stop and think to yourself, why the hell do I waste my time on GLP? You clearly know what you are talking about but people will just call you a shill because they are paranoid about everything that happens. These folk have preconceived beliefs about events that will not change no matter how much empirical evidence is presented to them.

I commend your efforts and find your posts informative and enlightening.

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