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CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS

 
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 23223519
United States
02/18/2013 03:41 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Sure bro, I have been giving him an education about thermodynamics for the past 6 pages and now he changes the subject to the age of the earth. Its called moving the goalposts and something I do not wish to spend more time on cause if he moves the goalposts once he will do it another time.
 Quoting: John Kimble


No. He is right on topic. He is making conclusions concerning the Earth's age based off of thermodynamic arguments concerning the inertia of the Earth's spin.

You're basically just bluffing when you say he's shifted goalposts.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6853586
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02/18/2013 03:41 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
I am still waiting for a rebuttal to my questions... your earth/inertia theory is discredited... on to the next.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


No, you just ask a question which I answer and than you ask another question totally unrelated and act as if I didn't answer any questions.
That is called moving the goalposts, you ask for one thing and when you get an answer you don't like you shift your position to something else.

Its dishonest, childlike and retarded.
 Quoting: John Kimble


You didn't answer any question beyond the second law, I understand your view and you are mistaken. Any professor will tell you there is nothing KNOWN that is exempt from that law.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


I don't need to talk beyond the 2nd law if the 2nd law is the topic.
 Quoting: John Kimble


Well.. evolution is topic.. sorry if you were mislead by the title that says CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
John Kimble

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Netherlands
02/18/2013 03:42 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Sure bro, I have been giving him an education about thermodynamics for the past 6 pages and now he changes the subject to the age of the earth. Its called moving the goalposts and something I do not wish to spend more time on cause if he moves the goalposts once he will do it another time.
 Quoting: John Kimble


No. He is right on topic. He is making conclusions concerning the Earth's age based off of thermodynamic arguments concerning the inertia of the Earth's spin.

You're basically just bluffing when you say he's shifted goalposts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Sure bro, whatever you want.
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6853586
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02/18/2013 03:42 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Sure bro, I have been giving him an education about thermodynamics for the past 6 pages and now he changes the subject to the age of the earth. Its called moving the goalposts and something I do not wish to spend more time on cause if he moves the goalposts once he will do it another time.
 Quoting: John Kimble


No. He is right on topic. He is making conclusions concerning the Earth's age based off of thermodynamic arguments concerning the inertia of the Earth's spin.

You're basically just bluffing when you say he's shifted goalposts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Thank you. I really appreciate when someone gets my drift
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 03:43 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Well.. evolution is topic.. sorry if you were mislead by the title that says CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Some guy said 2nd law disproves evolution, I told him exactly why it doesn;t.
I'm da party poopa
Surfbum25

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02/18/2013 03:43 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
and why would, in an intelligent design scenerio, multiple species be given the same traits?

what would be the purpose in that?
 Quoting: Oyster


Philosophical and teleological arguments. Start your own thread.

Feel free to advance your scientific argument for evolution at any time. I have all day.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


hhhhmmmmm sounds like most intelligent design arguements to me.....

 Quoting: Oyster


Page 9 Oyster

Can we expect anything resembling a scientific defense of Evolution by Page 20 perhaps?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Can we expect to see anything resembling a scientific fact AGAINST evolution..? Or merely more babble about how since previous civilizations thought mice came from rags and that was proven false that evolution is also..?

The genetic links between different species have been proven multiple times over by scientific communities around the world. I have not seen ONE that says we were created by an intelligent being.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6853586
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02/18/2013 03:44 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Sure bro, I have been giving him an education about thermodynamics for the past 6 pages and now he changes the subject to the age of the earth. Its called moving the goalposts and something I do not wish to spend more time on cause if he moves the goalposts once he will do it another time.
 Quoting: John Kimble


No. He is right on topic. He is making conclusions concerning the Earth's age based off of thermodynamic arguments concerning the inertia of the Earth's spin.

You're basically just bluffing when you say he's shifted goalposts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Sure bro, whatever you want.
 Quoting: John Kimble


attack that doesn't answer any questions or serve any purpose other than to demonize someone.

grats
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 23223519
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02/18/2013 03:45 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
i can post some really boring genetics articles if you like, though i doubt you would read them.
 Quoting: Oyster


Go for it. But please don't just spam links. Actually present the argument in a clear and concise manner, and prove you actually know what argument your making.

In case you've forgotten, I already responded to your first link. And I asked you why genome duplication events support Evolution?

You never replied.
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 03:45 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Sure bro, I have been giving him an education about thermodynamics for the past 6 pages and now he changes the subject to the age of the earth. Its called moving the goalposts and something I do not wish to spend more time on cause if he moves the goalposts once he will do it another time.
 Quoting: John Kimble


No. He is right on topic. He is making conclusions concerning the Earth's age based off of thermodynamic arguments concerning the inertia of the Earth's spin.

You're basically just bluffing when you say he's shifted goalposts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Sure bro, whatever you want.
 Quoting: John Kimble


attack that doesn't answer any questions or serve any purpose other than to demonize someone.

grats
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Like you are the shiny beacon of mature debating. TROLOLOLOL
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6853586
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02/18/2013 03:45 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
...


Philosophical and teleological arguments. Start your own thread.

Feel free to advance your scientific argument for evolution at any time. I have all day.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


hhhhmmmmm sounds like most intelligent design arguements to me.....

 Quoting: Oyster


Page 9 Oyster

Can we expect anything resembling a scientific defense of Evolution by Page 20 perhaps?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Can we expect to see anything resembling a scientific fact AGAINST evolution..? Or merely more babble about how since previous civilizations thought mice came from rags and that was proven false that evolution is also..?

The genetic links between different species have been proven multiple times over by scientific communities around the world. I have not seen ONE that says we were created by an intelligent being.
 Quoting: Surfbum25


If you read the thread, there are numerous facts against evolution.... sorry i didn't log in, but yes, evolution as it is taught in school in impossible.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:47 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
...


No. He is right on topic. He is making conclusions concerning the Earth's age based off of thermodynamic arguments concerning the inertia of the Earth's spin.

You're basically just bluffing when you say he's shifted goalposts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Sure bro, whatever you want.
 Quoting: John Kimble


attack that doesn't answer any questions or serve any purpose other than to demonize someone.

grats
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Like you are the shiny beacon of mature debating. TROLOLOLOL
 Quoting: John Kimble



I am the shining beacon of not letting BULLSHIT get spread
John Kimble

User ID: 1516308
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02/18/2013 03:48 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
I am the shining beacon of not letting BULLSHIT get spread
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


No indeed, bullshit is your competitor, can't have the bullshit mixing with your horseshit.
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34434006
Norway
02/18/2013 03:48 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
I agree that mutation as a process for evolution is not possible. But how else could evolution occur.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34434006

That's the evos' problem to solve. ;-D

The change in genetics that actually is necessary for an evolution process is thus explained by an external force they call the Designer. It is because they cannot explain it, so it is added something supernatural.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

Lack of explanation is not the only factor here. In fact, it is precisely because we do understand the complexity of DNA that we propose a designer, since "no effect is greater than its cause". It's what we know that leads us to Intelligent Design, not what we don't know.

The scientists should use the physical only to prove theories, What is done by spirit or something in other dimensions, they have no instruments to measure.

So it will be religion no matter. You must have faith in it. Else how can we otherwise uphold the evolution theory.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

Agree.

But may be it is a matter of time that we can find the probability is thee after all. In some way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

And here again we're in the realm of faith and hope.

I feel as if it is better to say that God created all species at once, instead of using intelligent design as a pseudoscientific tool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

Disagree. ID is not "pseudoscientific" in the slightest. It's actually more scientific than ToE because it lets the data lead to the conclusions, not the other way around. The "Cambrian Explosion" is very good evidence for sudden appearance of all kinds of life. But ID simply is naturalism that knows its limits.

Because then we will end up always that evolution is right. So when we find new facts we only adjust it a little bit with the explanation that intelligent design did it.

Ok we can set as a condition that evoluion has to be, and then explain all new facts by it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

Again, I disagree that there is much in common between ID and ToE.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode

Thank you, may be we agree mostly. It can be of course an inert will inside of creation caused by a universal force. This can organize DNA into new configurations and thus transform species and even form life from materials on the face of the earth by patterns or programming that this force is composed of. When it performs the evolution new patterns in this force are formed by the new more advanced lifeforms, because they can see subconsciously new needs that would make them even more adaptable to there surroundings.

It is a nice thought. The cambrian explosion of life could then be like a big bang caused by this lifeforce.

But why did it not occur earlier not so long after the Earth was created, 4,5 BY ago. It waited to form life until 4 BY years afterwards. Yes may be the conditions were not adequate enough for supporting life.

If we see God instead of an ID creating life, He would have began at once to create life, because He would probably not see it appropriate to leave the Earth, that He created, empty. He would probably more have seen it a waste to let the Earth turning around the Sun empty for 4 BY. What was the intention of doing that?

I have a theory that would have solved all problems. But I have to believe in God that it can be possible. If a personal God created everything at once, both Heaven and Earth and all life 4,5 BY ago perfect, then life in this original condition would not see death, i.e. have eternal life.

Then what caused the fossil record was the life beginning to die suddenly for some reason, may be because someone started to temper with the His creation.

But the death started first with the more simple lifeforms, may be because the tempering first began with that. Then it began to occure also for more and more advanced lifeforms. The last major development of this was the dinosaurs which then caused God to make a major intervention by some natural catastrophe where many of the manipulated lifes had to be erradicated. Afterwards the manipulation of the creation was continued using mammals and after a while also primates were included in it.

This after my view can explain the observations that we have in the fossil record in a much more simple way. The evolution thus becomes instead involution by more and more death.

But it has to include a personal God then who can create everything perfect. But it can explain what we see quite nice I think.

There are many stories of finds of 10's or even 100's of million years old tools or artifacts that must have been made or used by intelligent beings. And there are seemingly human footprints along with footprints after dinosaurs as kept intact in rock beds exposed by Paluxy River.

So why not use such a theory? :)
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:49 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Look up the second law yourself. Everything decays over time. Stars, planets, life on earth, see what could possibly last billions of years around you...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Second law only says you can't decrease entropy without an external source. That is it.
 Quoting: John Kimble


So it doesnt apply to our universe? What does it apply to according to YOU? Our universe is the closed system. Everything in it tends toward disorder over time. If it didnt, you wouldve provided an example to the contrary. Sorry John, things dont last forever.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 03:49 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
The genetic links between different species have been proven multiple times over by scientific communities around the world.
 Quoting: Surfbum25


Nobody is arguing that there aren't genetic similarities corresponding with phenotypic ones. That's common sense.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:50 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Maybe you experts on the second law can explain how a comet can last billions of years?
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 03:50 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Look up the second law yourself. Everything decays over time. Stars, planets, life on earth, see what could possibly last billions of years around you...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Second law only says you can't decrease entropy without an external source. That is it.
 Quoting: John Kimble


So it doesnt apply to our universe? What does it apply to according to YOU? Our universe is the closed system. Everything in it tends toward disorder over time. If it didnt, you wouldve provided an example to the contrary. Sorry John, things dont last forever.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Indeed, some physisists argue that the universe is the only true closed system.

If everything moved to disorder how do you explain snowflakes?
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:50 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
I am the shining beacon of not letting BULLSHIT get spread
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


No indeed, bullshit is your competitor, can't have the bullshit mixing with your horseshit.
 Quoting: John Kimble


Have you answered 1 question? do you have that ability?

the Earth spins on inertia??? are you a fucking 2 year old?

Do you work for the TSA?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:51 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
i can post some really boring genetics articles if you like, though i doubt you would read them.
 Quoting: Oyster


Go for it. But please don't just spam links. Actually present the argument in a clear and concise manner, and prove you actually know what argument your making.

In case you've forgotten, I already responded to your first link. And I asked you why genome duplication events support Evolution?

You never replied.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


sorry, last night i got high and forgot about it till this morning.

i believe that link was talking about the split in genomes or something.

here are two that discuss observed evolution:
[link to www.talkorigins.org]
[link to www.talkorigins.org]

this one shows common descent:
[link to www.godlessgeeks.com]


this one is just a good resource on evolution:
[link to evolution.berkeley.edu]
david
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02/18/2013 03:53 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
...


hhhhmmmmm sounds like most intelligent design arguements to me.....

 Quoting: Oyster


Page 9 Oyster

Can we expect anything resembling a scientific defense of Evolution by Page 20 perhaps?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Can we expect to see anything resembling a scientific fact AGAINST evolution..? Or merely more babble about how since previous civilizations thought mice came from rags and that was proven false that evolution is also..?

The genetic links between different species have been proven multiple times over by scientific communities around the world. I have not seen ONE that says we were created by an intelligent being.
 Quoting: Surfbum25


If you read the thread, there are numerous facts against evolution.... sorry i didn't log in, but yes, evolution as it is taught in school in impossible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


all i have seen is the stating and restating, that you all don't believe evolution is true, hence, it can't be true.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:53 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
why do philisophical arguements only work for intelligent design?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:54 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
why do philisophical arguements only work for intelligent design?
 Quoting: Oyster


Because evolution has been proven wrong?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:55 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Look people, there is dinosaur tissue still out there:


The world does not want to drum this message out though.

Shocking as she says in the vid.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:56 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
why do philisophical arguements only work for intelligent design?
 Quoting: Oyster


Because evolution has been proven wrong?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


how exactly has it been proven wrong?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:57 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Look up the second law yourself. Everything decays over time. Stars, planets, life on earth, see what could possibly last billions of years around you...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Second law only says you can't decrease entropy without an external source. That is it.
 Quoting: John Kimble


So it doesnt apply to our universe? What does it apply to according to YOU? Our universe is the closed system. Everything in it tends toward disorder over time. If it didnt, you wouldve provided an example to the contrary. Sorry John, things dont last forever.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Indeed, some physisists argue that the universe is the only true closed system.

If everything moved to disorder how do you explain snowflakes?
 Quoting: John Kimble


They melt? Rain evaporates? There needs to be a mechanism to convert the energy, or else it will only break it down. When a snowflake is on the grond, there is no more mechanism in the clouds, and it breaks down.. Human embryos have a mchanism to convert energy, thats why they grow. But the second law applies to us too, when we get old and die...Getting this yet?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 03:59 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
why do philisophical arguements only work for intelligent design?
 Quoting: Oyster


Because evolution has been proven wrong?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


how exactly has it been proven wrong?
 Quoting: Oyster


Well theres no proof of it, unless you care to add some new scientific breakthrough we havent heard about yet..
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 04:00 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
why do philisophical arguements only work for intelligent design?
 Quoting: Oyster


Because evolution has been proven wrong?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


how exactly has it been proven wrong?
 Quoting: Oyster


Evolution insists the world is 4.5 billion years old, and by their same metrics... they prove it is less than 50000.

So tell me how evolution works in 50000 years?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 04:00 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
The genetic links between different species have been proven multiple times over by scientific communities around the world.
 Quoting: Surfbum25


Nobody is arguing that there aren't genetic similarities corresponding with phenotypic ones. That's common sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


That's not even remotely related to what he is saying...

See for a specific example our chromosome 2;

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

He is saying that DNA can be used to link 2 species in regards to ancestry just as much DNA can be used to provide evidence whether your kid is really yours.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 04:01 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
why do philisophical arguements only work for intelligent design?
 Quoting: Oyster


Because evolution has been proven wrong?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


how exactly has it been proven wrong?
 Quoting: Oyster


Well theres no proof of it, unless you care to add some new scientific breakthrough we havent heard about yet..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


another
potkettle

where is all that god proof?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 04:01 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
What are the Limits of Darwinism? A Presentation by Dr. Michael Behe 2012


[link to www.youtube.com]

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