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CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 04:35 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
What is the matter and energy humans are exchanging with the environment?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540




O2 for CO2?
Sugar for Heat?

Again, I didn't just make this stuff up.
 Quoting: John Kimble


Symbiosis? More proof of creation, thanks.
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 04:36 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Maybe you mean the human digestive/respiratory system being open? It is still part of the whole, which is still subject to disorder just like EVeRYTHING else in the universe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Look dude, if you don't actually know what they mean with open and closed systems concerning thermodynamics why not just go to the top right of your browser and type in "Closed systems thermodynamics explained"
I'm da party poopa
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 04:37 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
What is the matter and energy humans are exchanging with the environment?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540




O2 for CO2?
Sugar for Heat?

Again, I didn't just make this stuff up.
 Quoting: John Kimble


Symbiosis? More proof of creation, thanks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


More proof of your incredible stupidity, thanks.
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13422246
Philippines
02/18/2013 04:38 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
wow the feds got involved
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


don't worry feds are hitler type evotards too.. they are on the evo side <- winning by pumping fiat money and bribing scientists..
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 04:38 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
if you cant refute any of the articles then you cant, that's ok.

but what you are asking for will never be "proven" because you cant create an experiment to prove gradual evolution.

much in the same way that you cant create an experiment to prove the existence of a deity.
 Quoting: Oyster


LOL okay, I will reply to your link with another link:
[link to www.trueorigin.org]
My link debunks your link because I said so, since you've set the standard that arguments and logic are unnecessary.


Going on to Page 12 now Oyster.

Think you'll make an argument by Page 20?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 04:41 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS


Got stumped.. so atheistards tried to debunk this video but failed...

fish going out to the lala land.. nothing can be more stupid than that.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 04:45 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
What is the matter and energy humans are exchanging with the environment?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540




O2 for CO2?
Sugar for Heat?

Again, I didn't just make this stuff up.
 Quoting: John Kimble


Symbiosis? More proof of creation, thanks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


More proof of your incredible stupidity, thanks.
 Quoting: John Kimble


You didnt know plants and animals had a symbiotic relationship regarding oxygen and carbon dioxide? Im sure you atheists can explain how the plants waited millions of years for the oxygen, let alone the animals needed to fertilize them..But thats another topic you probably are not interested in.
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 04:47 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
You didnt know plants and animals had a symbiotic relationship regarding oxygen and carbon dioxide? Im sure you atheists can explain how the plants waited millions of years for the oxygen, let alone the animals needed to fertilize them..But thats another topic you probably are not interested in.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


How much money is there in moving goalposts? No education required right? So no good pay I guess.
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 04:47 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Maybe you mean the human digestive/respiratory system being open? It is still part of the whole, which is still subject to disorder just like EVeRYTHING else in the universe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Look dude, if you don't actually know what they mean with open and closed systems concerning thermodynamics why not just go to the top right of your browser and type in "Closed systems thermodynamics explained"
 Quoting: John Kimble


Look Bro, type in 'thermodynamic system' in google, or wiki, and it will tell you my definition- whole universe = closed system
John Kimble

User ID: 1516308
Netherlands
02/18/2013 04:48 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Maybe you mean the human digestive/respiratory system being open? It is still part of the whole, which is still subject to disorder just like EVeRYTHING else in the universe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Look dude, if you don't actually know what they mean with open and closed systems concerning thermodynamics why not just go to the top right of your browser and type in "Closed systems thermodynamics explained"
 Quoting: John Kimble


Look Bro, type in 'thermodynamic system' in google, or wiki, and it will tell you my definition- whole universe = closed system
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


yes but it will also say you are open system or do you just ignore that?
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 04:49 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
if you cant refute any of the articles then you cant, that's ok.

but what you are asking for will never be "proven" because you cant create an experiment to prove gradual evolution.

much in the same way that you cant create an experiment to prove the existence of a deity.
 Quoting: Oyster


LOL okay, I will reply to your link with another link:
[link to www.trueorigin.org]
My link debunks your link because I said so, since you've set the standard that arguments and logic are unnecessary.


Going on to Page 12 now Oyster.

Think you'll make an argument by Page 20?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


you arent going to upset me, i know you want to but a random AC on the internet isnt going to ruin my day. that i can promise you.

i have to commute home and will read more of this later....

but for now.....anatomical paralogy makes a case for evolution, regardless of the spin this article puts on it.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 04:59 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
...




O2 for CO2?
Sugar for Heat?

Again, I didn't just make this stuff up.
 Quoting: John Kimble


Symbiosis? More proof of creation, thanks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


More proof of your incredible stupidity, thanks.
 Quoting: John Kimble


You didnt know plants and animals had a symbiotic relationship regarding oxygen and carbon dioxide? Im sure you atheists can explain how the plants waited millions of years for the oxygen, let alone the animals needed to fertilize them..But thats another topic you probably are not interested in.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Sorry, the plants needed the CO2...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2029220
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02/18/2013 05:01 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Evolution is a quasi-religious, naturalist philosophy that predates Christianity. It is by no means the result of scientific investigation as we are taught.

This pseudo-science was mandated by Royal Societies as a foundation of biology, in a time when Spontaneous Generation (mice spawning from old rags) was still viewed as a legitimate theory, and when the living cell was considered to be nothing more than a blob of undifferentiated jello.

Since then, the life sciences have been marred with superstitious magical thinking, and a force fitting of data in any way that will conform to several non-falsifiable evolutionary models.

Our life on Earth is but a vapor. Please do not simply accept this story you've been told about Evolution. Please understand that a majority of scientists have believed dumb and wrong ideas all throughout history, often being spurred on by the popular philosophies of that age. Naturalism(Atheism) is considered the 'sophisticated' belief system in our day. Contrary to their mantras, it has very little to do with science.

I do believe in Creation by the Almighty God of the Bible. My hope here is to wake people up to the illusion of the scientific fraud that is Evolution, so that they may think carefully and skeptically on the subject of their true origins.

It was through studying evolution, that God revealed to me that this 'theory' was the imagination of foolish men, and delivered me to the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray for the same for others reading. Seek the Absolute Truth!

With that said, my challenge is extended to Evolutionists. I submit that your views are not based on scientific evidence, but on religious and philosophical belief in the theory itself.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


You have no idea what you're talking about.

Evolution is a process governed by "natural selection." I'm not sure if you know what that means.

First, random genetic variations occur in nature all the time. This is undisputed. The idea behind "evolution" is that those animals that have adaptive advantages conferred on them due to these random variations will live longer than other animals, breed, and hence propagate that specific genetic variation. That is, "natural" genetic variations "select" those animals adapted sufficiently well to their surrounding environment for survival.

I find it hard to believe you would accuse the theory of evolution as being "non-falsifiable" and then do a complete 180 degree turn and state that "God revealed to you that this theory was the imagination of foolish men." I think we both know which theory is really "unfalsifiable," don't we Karl Popper?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/18/2013 05:10 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Maybe you mean the human digestive/respiratory system being open? It is still part of the whole, which is still subject to disorder just like EVeRYTHING else in the universe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Look dude, if you don't actually know what they mean with open and closed systems concerning thermodynamics why not just go to the top right of your browser and type in "Closed systems thermodynamics explained"
 Quoting: John Kimble


Look Bro, type in 'thermodynamic system' in google, or wiki, and it will tell you my definition- whole universe = closed system
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


yes but it will also say you are open system or do you just ignore that?
 Quoting: John Kimble


Are humans some kind of exception to the rule? Do humans not get old and decay? Shouldnt everything within the universe count as the universe itself? You are arguing semantics, not science.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 05:10 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Evolution is a quasi-religious, naturalist philosophy that predates Christianity. It is by no means the result of scientific investigation as we are taught.

This pseudo-science was mandated by Royal Societies as a foundation of biology, in a time when Spontaneous Generation (mice spawning from old rags) was still viewed as a legitimate theory, and when the living cell was considered to be nothing more than a blob of undifferentiated jello.

Since then, the life sciences have been marred with superstitious magical thinking, and a force fitting of data in any way that will conform to several non-falsifiable evolutionary models.

Our life on Earth is but a vapor. Please do not simply accept this story you've been told about Evolution. Please understand that a majority of scientists have believed dumb and wrong ideas all throughout history, often being spurred on by the popular philosophies of that age. Naturalism(Atheism) is considered the 'sophisticated' belief system in our day. Contrary to their mantras, it has very little to do with science.

I do believe in Creation by the Almighty God of the Bible. My hope here is to wake people up to the illusion of the scientific fraud that is Evolution, so that they may think carefully and skeptically on the subject of their true origins.

It was through studying evolution, that God revealed to me that this 'theory' was the imagination of foolish men, and delivered me to the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray for the same for others reading. Seek the Absolute Truth!

With that said, my challenge is extended to Evolutionists. I submit that your views are not based on scientific evidence, but on religious and philosophical belief in the theory itself.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


You have no idea what you're talking about.

Evolution is a process governed by "natural selection." I'm not sure if you know what that means.

First, random genetic variations occur in nature all the time. This is undisputed. The idea behind "evolution" is that those animals that have adaptive advantages conferred on them due to these random variations will live longer than other animals, breed, and hence propagate that specific genetic variation. That is, "natural" genetic variations "select" those animals adapted sufficiently well to their surrounding environment for survival.

I find it hard to believe you would accuse the theory of evolution as being "non-falsifiable" and then do a complete 180 degree turn and state that "God revealed to you that this theory was the imagination of foolish men." I think we both know which theory is really "unfalsifiable," don't we Karl Popper?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


You must not have read any more posts of this or any other evolution thread. Natural selection is not being disputed, the origins are. Selection is not creation.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 05:12 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
anatomical paralogy makes a case for evolution, regardless of the spin this article puts on it.
 Quoting: Oyster


Well you dropped a term, I guess that is almost an argument.

Oh yea, great case. Only you have no feasible evolutionary mechanism to drive those changes, no unambiguous gradual transitions to infer from the fossil record that such gradual changes took place, and no explicit evidence of any kind to infer paralogy or homology is the result of common descent, rather than an intelligent reuse of excellently designed structures.
John Kimble

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Netherlands
02/18/2013 05:14 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
...


Look dude, if you don't actually know what they mean with open and closed systems concerning thermodynamics why not just go to the top right of your browser and type in "Closed systems thermodynamics explained"
 Quoting: John Kimble


Look Bro, type in 'thermodynamic system' in google, or wiki, and it will tell you my definition- whole universe = closed system
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


yes but it will also say you are open system or do you just ignore that?
 Quoting: John Kimble


Are humans some kind of exception to the rule? Do humans not get old and decay? Shouldnt everything within the universe count as the universe itself? You are arguing semantics, not science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


No you are the one arguing sementics.
You just said how the science behind thermodynamics says the Universe is a closed system but then you ignore the same science that says humans are open systems.
Now you are trying to say humans are the universe too cause they are part of it. THAT is arguing semantics.

Here let me refresh your mind

""II. Thermodynamic systems

Energy transfer is studied in three types of systems:

Open systems
Open systems can exchange both matter and energy with an outside system. They are portions of larger systems and in intimate contact with the larger system. Your body is an open system.

Closed systems
Closed systems exchange energy but not matter with an outside system. Though they are typically portions of larger systems, they are not in complete contact. The Earth is essentially a closed system; it obtains lots of energy from the Sun but the exchange of matter with the outside is almost zero.

Isolated systems
Isolated systems can exchange neither energy nor matter with an outside system. While they may be portions of larger systems, they do not communicate with the outside in any way. The physical universe is an isolated system; a closed thermos bottle is essentially an isolated system (though its insulation is not perfect)."
"
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/18/2013 05:14 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Evolution is a quasi-religious, naturalist philosophy that predates Christianity. It is by no means the result of scientific investigation as we are taught.

This pseudo-science was mandated by Royal Societies as a foundation of biology, in a time when Spontaneous Generation (mice spawning from old rags) was still viewed as a legitimate theory, and when the living cell was considered to be nothing more than a blob of undifferentiated jello.

Since then, the life sciences have been marred with superstitious magical thinking, and a force fitting of data in any way that will conform to several non-falsifiable evolutionary models.

Our life on Earth is but a vapor. Please do not simply accept this story you've been told about Evolution. Please understand that a majority of scientists have believed dumb and wrong ideas all throughout history, often being spurred on by the popular philosophies of that age. Naturalism(Atheism) is considered the 'sophisticated' belief system in our day. Contrary to their mantras, it has very little to do with science.

I do believe in Creation by the Almighty God of the Bible. My hope here is to wake people up to the illusion of the scientific fraud that is Evolution, so that they may think carefully and skeptically on the subject of their true origins.

It was through studying evolution, that God revealed to me that this 'theory' was the imagination of foolish men, and delivered me to the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray for the same for others reading. Seek the Absolute Truth!

With that said, my challenge is extended to Evolutionists. I submit that your views are not based on scientific evidence, but on religious and philosophical belief in the theory itself.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


You have no idea what you're talking about.

Evolution is a process governed by "natural selection." I'm not sure if you know what that means.

First, random genetic variations occur in nature all the time. This is undisputed. The idea behind "evolution" is that those animals that have adaptive advantages conferred on them due to these random variations will live longer than other animals, breed, and hence propagate that specific genetic variation. That is, "natural" genetic variations "select" those animals adapted sufficiently well to their surrounding environment for survival.

I find it hard to believe you would accuse the theory of evolution as being "non-falsifiable" and then do a complete 180 degree turn and state that "God revealed to you that this theory was the imagination of foolish men." I think we both know which theory is really "unfalsifiable," don't we Karl Popper?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


You must not have read any more posts of this or any other evolution thread. Natural selection is not being disputed, the origins are. Selection is not creation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


Lol yeah I have to apologize I didn't read all 12 pages of this thread, only the first ridiculous thing I saw posted by the OP
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 05:17 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
anatomical paralogy makes a case for evolution, regardless of the spin this article puts on it.
 Quoting: Oyster


Well you dropped a term, I guess that is almost an argument.

Oh yea, great case. Only you have no feasible evolutionary mechanism to drive those changes, no unambiguous gradual transitions to infer from the fossil record that such gradual changes took place, and no explicit evidence of any kind to infer paralogy or homology is the result of common descent, rather than an intelligent reuse of excellently designed structures.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Not to mention that similar structures constantly appear in diverse lineages which can not be chalked up to homology or paralogy.

In this case, Evolution uses the ad-hoc explanation of Convergent Evolution.

Nothing about this is falsifiable. Talkorigins basically says it proves Evolution because we don't see a bird appear with a mammalian-like body plan, or some other major divergence from repeated forms. (which would be a biological disaster). These are silly cambrian-rabbit type predictions.
FreedomFox

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02/18/2013 05:17 PM

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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS


Got stumped.. so atheistards tried to debunk this video but failed...

fish going out to the lala land.. nothing can be more stupid than that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13422246


Wow, it a staggering the incompetence of that answer!

Not to mention the fact that he was totally at a loss to answer at all in the first place and when he did that was the best this evolutionary expert came up with!!

There are so many flaws and inaccuracies in what he says and thus what it implies, impossible to know where best to start.

Now, please any evolutionists out there, forget totally about creationism or any alternative theory for a moment......

Just forget any other diversion and focus on evolution ... is what Dawkins answered a well reasoned, articulate and credible answer to what evolution is all about? Do you really believe what he puts forward as evolution is the absolute gospel truth of what has happened?
mrsnacks
User ID: 10616946
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02/18/2013 05:20 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Evolution is a quasi-religious, naturalist philosophy that predates Christianity. It is by no means the result of scientific investigation as we are taught.

This pseudo-science was mandated by Royal Societies as a foundation of biology, in a time when Spontaneous Generation (mice spawning from old rags) was still viewed as a legitimate theory, and when the living cell was considered to be nothing more than a blob of undifferentiated jello.

Since then, the life sciences have been marred with superstitious magical thinking, and a force fitting of data in any way that will conform to several non-falsifiable evolutionary models.

Our life on Earth is but a vapor. Please do not simply accept this story you've been told about Evolution. Please understand that a majority of scientists have believed dumb and wrong ideas all throughout history, often being spurred on by the popular philosophies of that age. Naturalism(Atheism) is considered the 'sophisticated' belief system in our day. Contrary to their mantras, it has very little to do with science.

I do believe in Creation by the Almighty God of the Bible. My hope here is to wake people up to the illusion of the scientific fraud that is Evolution, so that they may think carefully and skeptically on the subject of their true origins.

It was through studying evolution, that God revealed to me that this 'theory' was the imagination of foolish men, and delivered me to the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray for the same for others reading. Seek the Absolute Truth!

With that said, my challenge is extended to Evolutionists. I submit that your views are not based on scientific evidence, but on religious and philosophical belief in the theory itself.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


======================================

God revealed to you really ? That is just your imagination.
You weren't born with a belief or beliefs period. You acquired beliefs which is based on what others have believed and said. You heard it and adopted it as your own. Your view is not based on science either. You have made up your mind so what is the use of this debate ? Truth doesn't need to be defended or can it be known.

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.

Here is something interesting :

At Churches Nationwide, Good Words for Evolution: "On the 197th birthday of Charles Darwin, ministers at several hundred churches around the country preached yesterday against recent efforts to undermine the theory of evolution, asserting that the opposition many Christians say exists between science and faith is false. At St. Dunstan's Episcopal Church, a small contemporary structure among the pricey homes of north Atlanta, the Rev. Patricia Templeton told the 85 worshipers gathered yesterday, 'A faith that requires you to close your mind in order to believe is not much of a faith at all....' At the Evanston Mennonite Church, Susan Fisher Miller, 48, an editor and English professor, said, 'I completely accept and affirm the view of God as creator, but I accommodate evolution within that.'"

And this letter, signed by more than 10,000 clergy members:

An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science: "...We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children..."

An opinion is just a thought in the mind. It is not real for it comes and goes. It has a beginning and an end. All thoughts are not real in that sense. What is real is what has no beginning or end and is eternal. A belief is just a thought shared by more than one. Beliefs are not real either.

You can actually answer this question yourself with a little logic. Here are the two options:

The complexity of life and the universe did arise completely spontaneously and without any intelligence. Nature created all the complexity we see today.

An intelligent creator created all of the complexity that we see today because complexity requires intelligence to create it.

The advantage of the first option is that it is self-contained. The complexity arose spontaneously. No other explanation is required.

The problem with the second option is that it immediately creates an impossibility. If complexity cannot arise without intelligence, then we immediately must ask, "Who created the intelligent creator?" The creator could not spring into existence if complexity requires intelligence. Therefore, God is impossible.

In other words, by applying logic, we can prove that God is imaginary.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 05:23 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Evolution is a quasi-religious, naturalist philosophy that predates Christianity. It is by no means the result of scientific investigation as we are taught.

This pseudo-science was mandated by Royal Societies as a foundation of biology, in a time when Spontaneous Generation (mice spawning from old rags) was still viewed as a legitimate theory, and when the living cell was considered to be nothing more than a blob of undifferentiated jello.

Since then, the life sciences have been marred with superstitious magical thinking, and a force fitting of data in any way that will conform to several non-falsifiable evolutionary models.

Our life on Earth is but a vapor. Please do not simply accept this story you've been told about Evolution. Please understand that a majority of scientists have believed dumb and wrong ideas all throughout history, often being spurred on by the popular philosophies of that age. Naturalism(Atheism) is considered the 'sophisticated' belief system in our day. Contrary to their mantras, it has very little to do with science.

I do believe in Creation by the Almighty God of the Bible. My hope here is to wake people up to the illusion of the scientific fraud that is Evolution, so that they may think carefully and skeptically on the subject of their true origins.

It was through studying evolution, that God revealed to me that this 'theory' was the imagination of foolish men, and delivered me to the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray for the same for others reading. Seek the Absolute Truth!

With that said, my challenge is extended to Evolutionists. I submit that your views are not based on scientific evidence, but on religious and philosophical belief in the theory itself.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


======================================

God revealed to you really ? That is just your imagination.
You weren't born with a belief or beliefs period. You acquired beliefs which is based on what others have believed and said. You heard it and adopted it as your own. Your view is not based on science either. You have made up your mind so what is the use of this debate ? Truth doesn't need to be defended or can it be known.

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.

Here is something interesting :

At Churches Nationwide, Good Words for Evolution: "On the 197th birthday of Charles Darwin, ministers at several hundred churches around the country preached yesterday against recent efforts to undermine the theory of evolution, asserting that the opposition many Christians say exists between science and faith is false. At St. Dunstan's Episcopal Church, a small contemporary structure among the pricey homes of north Atlanta, the Rev. Patricia Templeton told the 85 worshipers gathered yesterday, 'A faith that requires you to close your mind in order to believe is not much of a faith at all....' At the Evanston Mennonite Church, Susan Fisher Miller, 48, an editor and English professor, said, 'I completely accept and affirm the view of God as creator, but I accommodate evolution within that.'"

And this letter, signed by more than 10,000 clergy members:

An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science: "...We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children..."

An opinion is just a thought in the mind. It is not real for it comes and goes. It has a beginning and an end. All thoughts are not real in that sense. What is real is what has no beginning or end and is eternal. A belief is just a thought shared by more than one. Beliefs are not real either.

You can actually answer this question yourself with a little logic. Here are the two options:

The complexity of life and the universe did arise completely spontaneously and without any intelligence. Nature created all the complexity we see today.

An intelligent creator created all of the complexity that we see today because complexity requires intelligence to create it.

The advantage of the first option is that it is self-contained. The complexity arose spontaneously. No other explanation is required.

The problem with the second option is that it immediately creates an impossibility. If complexity cannot arise without intelligence, then we immediately must ask, "Who created the intelligent creator?" The creator could not spring into existence if complexity requires intelligence. Therefore, God is impossible.

In other words, by applying logic, we can prove that God is imaginary.
 Quoting: mrsnacks 10616946


Thank you. I don't agree with everything you said, but it certainly presents more logic and reasoning than the Bible-thumpers are used to. It never ceases to amaze me how quickly a person can go from saying a scientific theory is unfalsifiable to saying that "GOD SPOKE TO ME AND REVEALED THE TRUTH OF EVERYTHING TO ME, so therefore I am right." As if they just don't see the baffling irony in that statement.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 05:24 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Evolution is a process governed by "natural selection." I'm not sure if you know what that means.

First, random genetic variations occur in nature all the time. This is undisputed. The idea behind "evolution" is that those animals that have adaptive advantages conferred on them due to these random variations will live longer than other animals, breed, and hence propagate that specific genetic variation. That is, "natural" genetic variations "select" those animals adapted sufficiently well to their surrounding environment for survival.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


Thank you, Captain Obvious.

Natural Selection kills things that aren't suited to their environment.

Please present your arguments or evidence that Natural Selection of random variations can build increasingly complex and functional elements in a species.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 05:28 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
...


Look Bro, type in 'thermodynamic system' in google, or wiki, and it will tell you my definition- whole universe = closed system
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


yes but it will also say you are open system or do you just ignore that?
 Quoting: John Kimble


Are humans some kind of exception to the rule? Do humans not get old and decay? Shouldnt everything within the universe count as the universe itself? You are arguing semantics, not science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


No you are the one arguing sementics.
You just said how the science behind thermodynamics says the Universe is a closed system but then you ignore the same science that says humans are open systems.
Now you are trying to say humans are the universe too cause they are part of it. THAT is arguing semantics.

Here let me refresh your mind

""II. Thermodynamic systems

Energy transfer is studied in three types of systems:

Open systems
Open systems can exchange both matter and energy with an outside system. They are portions of larger systems and in intimate contact with the larger system. Your body is an open system.

Closed systems
Closed systems exchange energy but not matter with an outside system. Though they are typically portions of larger systems, they are not in complete contact. The Earth is essentially a closed system; it obtains lots of energy from the Sun but the exchange of matter with the outside is almost zero.

Isolated systems
Isolated systems can exchange neither energy nor matter with an outside system. While they may be portions of larger systems, they do not communicate with the outside in any way. The physical universe is an isolated system; a closed thermos bottle is essentially an isolated system (though its insulation is not perfect)."
"
 Quoting: John Kimble


Do you agree that everything in the universe is the universe itself? Do yo uthink humans are some kind of exception? (repeating because you didnt answer)
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 05:29 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
...


Look Bro, type in 'thermodynamic system' in google, or wiki, and it will tell you my definition- whole universe = closed system
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


yes but it will also say you are open system or do you just ignore that?
 Quoting: John Kimble


Are humans some kind of exception to the rule? Do humans not get old and decay? Shouldnt everything within the universe count as the universe itself? You are arguing semantics, not science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


No you are the one arguing sementics.
You just said how the science behind thermodynamics says the Universe is a closed system but then you ignore the same science that says humans are open systems.
Now you are trying to say humans are the universe too cause they are part of it. THAT is arguing semantics.

Here let me refresh your mind

""II. Thermodynamic systems

Energy transfer is studied in three types of systems:

Open systems
Open systems can exchange both matter and energy with an outside system. They are portions of larger systems and in intimate contact with the larger system. Your body is an open system.

Closed systems
Closed systems exchange energy but not matter with an outside system. Though they are typically portions of larger systems, they are not in complete contact. The Earth is essentially a closed system; it obtains lots of energy from the Sun but the exchange of matter with the outside is almost zero.

Isolated systems
Isolated systems can exchange neither energy nor matter with an outside system. While they may be portions of larger systems, they do not communicate with the outside in any way. The physical universe is an isolated system; a closed thermos bottle is essentially an isolated system (though its insulation is not perfect)."
"
 Quoting: John Kimble


Do you agree that everything in the universe is the universe itself? Do yo uthink humans are some kind of exception? (repeating because you didnt answer)


I did answer, maybe read again.

Last Edited by John Kimble on 02/18/2013 05:30 PM
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 05:30 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Humans are a closed system. The cirulatory system, blood, is all closed. Energy added to humans makes us grow (like other animals) at first, when we have the mechanism to grow. After a certain age, this mechanism to keep growing no longer exists, and the radiation and x rays take over. We are not an exception to the rule, sorry atheists.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 05:31 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
...


Are humans some kind of exception to the rule? Do humans not get old and decay? Shouldnt everything within the universe count as the universe itself? You are arguing semantics, not science.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


No you are the one arguing sementics.
You just said how the science behind thermodynamics says the Universe is a closed system but then you ignore the same science that says humans are open systems.
Now you are trying to say humans are the universe too cause they are part of it. THAT is arguing semantics.

Here let me refresh your mind

""II. Thermodynamic systems

Energy transfer is studied in three types of systems:

Open systems
Open systems can exchange both matter and energy with an outside system. They are portions of larger systems and in intimate contact with the larger system. Your body is an open system.

Closed systems
Closed systems exchange energy but not matter with an outside system. Though they are typically portions of larger systems, they are not in complete contact. The Earth is essentially a closed system; it obtains lots of energy from the Sun but the exchange of matter with the outside is almost zero.

Isolated systems
Isolated systems can exchange neither energy nor matter with an outside system. While they may be portions of larger systems, they do not communicate with the outside in any way. The physical universe is an isolated system; a closed thermos bottle is essentially an isolated system (though its insulation is not perfect)."
"
 Quoting: John Kimble


Do you agree that everything in the universe is the universe itself? Do yo uthink humans are some kind of exception? (repeating because you didnt answer)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


I did answer, maybe read again.
 Quoting: John Kimble


Humans are a part of the universe. The universe is a closed system.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2029220
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02/18/2013 05:34 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Evolution is a process governed by "natural selection." I'm not sure if you know what that means.

First, random genetic variations occur in nature all the time. This is undisputed. The idea behind "evolution" is that those animals that have adaptive advantages conferred on them due to these random variations will live longer than other animals, breed, and hence propagate that specific genetic variation. That is, "natural" genetic variations "select" those animals adapted sufficiently well to their surrounding environment for survival.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


Thank you, Captain Obvious.

Natural Selection kills things that aren't suited to their environment.

Please present your arguments or evidence that Natural Selection of random variations can build increasingly complex and functional elements in a species.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Lol so you're going to ask ME for evidence, but God gets the (no doubt wonderful) privilege of being able to talk to you directly? HAHA that's just rich. If God has spoken to you directly why do you even need "evidence" and "arguments" from a mere mortal such as myself?

If a mutation creates a more complex organism than one before it, and that mutation confers adaptive advantages for the new organism, then - viola! Complexity has emerged. Hundreds of scientific papers have been written on the subject, and if you weren't just some "God speaks to me" crack-pot I might even care to waste my time and provide just a few of them.

SO - why can't you comment on how ironic it is that you claim Darwinian theory is "unfalsifiable" and then proceed to say God revealed to you, a priori, no doubt, that evolution is a theory of "the imagination of foolish men?" HAHAHA you want to know what ELSE I just heard coming from the imagination of a foolish man? The idea that God spoke to him directly about this issue. Something you and no one else will never be able to prove true or false, no doubt.

But in the meantime, I would get your head checked by a shrink. Got hasn't spoken to you. So stop kidding yourself.
SeekWisdom

User ID: 14695767
United States
02/18/2013 05:34 PM

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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Evolution is a quasi-religious, naturalist philosophy that predates Christianity. It is by no means the result of scientific investigation as we are taught.

This pseudo-science was mandated by Royal Societies as a foundation of biology, in a time when Spontaneous Generation (mice spawning from old rags) was still viewed as a legitimate theory, and when the living cell was considered to be nothing more than a blob of undifferentiated jello.

Since then, the life sciences have been marred with superstitious magical thinking, and a force fitting of data in any way that will conform to several non-falsifiable evolutionary models.

Our life on Earth is but a vapor. Please do not simply accept this story you've been told about Evolution. Please understand that a majority of scientists have believed dumb and wrong ideas all throughout history, often being spurred on by the popular philosophies of that age. Naturalism(Atheism) is considered the 'sophisticated' belief system in our day. Contrary to their mantras, it has very little to do with science.

I do believe in Creation by the Almighty God of the Bible. My hope here is to wake people up to the illusion of the scientific fraud that is Evolution, so that they may think carefully and skeptically on the subject of their true origins.

It was through studying evolution, that God revealed to me that this 'theory' was the imagination of foolish men, and delivered me to the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray for the same for others reading. Seek the Absolute Truth!

With that said, my challenge is extended to Evolutionists. I submit that your views are not based on scientific evidence, but on religious and philosophical belief in the theory itself.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


An introduction to evolution


The definition

Biological evolution, simply put, is descent with modification. This definition encompasses small-scale evolution (changes in gene frequency in a population from one generation to the next) and large-scale evolution (the descent of different species from a common ancestor over many generations). Evolution helps us to understand the history of life.

The explanation

Biological evolution is not simply a matter of change over time. Lots of things change over time: trees lose their leaves, mountain ranges rise and erode, but they aren't examples of biological evolution because they don't involve descent through genetic inheritance.

The central idea of biological evolution is that all life on Earth shares a common ancestor, just as you and your cousins share a common grandmother.

Through the process of descent with modification, the common ancestor of life on Earth gave rise to the fantastic diversity that we see documented in the fossil record and around us today. Evolution means that we're all distant cousins: humans and oak trees, hummingbirds and whales.

[link to evolution.berkeley.edu]
"The lips of wisdom are closed, except to the ears of Understanding"

A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?
Albert Einstein

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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2183540
United States
02/18/2013 05:36 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Evolution is a process governed by "natural selection." I'm not sure if you know what that means.

First, random genetic variations occur in nature all the time. This is undisputed. The idea behind "evolution" is that those animals that have adaptive advantages conferred on them due to these random variations will live longer than other animals, breed, and hence propagate that specific genetic variation. That is, "natural" genetic variations "select" those animals adapted sufficiently well to their surrounding environment for survival.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


Thank you, Captain Obvious.

Natural Selection kills things that aren't suited to their environment.

Please present your arguments or evidence that Natural Selection of random variations can build increasingly complex and functional elements in a species.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


Lol so you're going to ask ME for evidence, but God gets the (no doubt wonderful) privilege of being able to talk to you directly? HAHA that's just rich. If God has spoken to you directly why do you even need "evidence" and "arguments" from a mere mortal such as myself?

If a mutation creates a more complex organism than one before it, and that mutation confers adaptive advantages for the new organism, then - viola! Complexity has emerged. Hundreds of scientific papers have been written on the subject, and if you weren't just some "God speaks to me" crack-pot I might even care to waste my time and provide just a few of them.

SO - why can't you comment on how ironic it is that you claim Darwinian theory is "unfalsifiable" and then proceed to say God revealed to you, a priori, no doubt, that evolution is a theory of "the imagination of foolish men?" HAHAHA you want to know what ELSE I just heard coming from the imagination of a foolish man? The idea that God spoke to him directly about this issue. Something you and no one else will never be able to prove true or false, no doubt.

But in the meantime, I would get your head checked by a shrink. Got hasn't spoken to you. So stop kidding yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2029220


Name a mutation that added new information. You must not understand the concept of a genetic mutation, it is only deletrious or scrambles existing information. Theres never anything new added. That should save you some time..

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