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CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:23 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
I spent 20 minutes reading this thread and didn't learn anything new. Additionally, no one has asked the question that gets to the crux of the matter: Why is it important that we know these things? Life is here, life is now. Live it, and stop looking for validation. Have a nice day.
 Quoting: jay-j


It is important to disprove shit, fake, garbage science. Evolutionism = Humanism = Eugenics = Racism


say what you want about religions, but the worst mentality is that of the evolutionist
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 01:24 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Your logic is flawed...

If you are right, then living organisms DO NOT AGE... feel silly yet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


So if your logic is right why doesn't a pan on the stove cool down but stays at a steady temperature?
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:25 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Right... and if you read the thread, I showed you with just 1 example, how you don't have billions of years on this planet to accomplish what you believe happened.

If you don't want to do math, explain how evolution can work with the second law of thermodynamics?

It states everything breaks down over time... Evolution does the opposite.

Please explain
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


"The second law is a postulate of thermodynamics, but it can be understood and proven using the underlying quantum statistical mechanics. It is an expression of the fact that over time, differences in temperature, pressure, and chemical potential decrease in an isolated physical system, leading eventually to a state of thermodynamic equilibrium."

A living organism is not an isolated system.
 Quoting: John Kimble

The second law of thermodynamics implies that all things in nature go from a more ordered state towards chaos or heat. Life however represents extreme order.

You talk about isolated physical systems. The idea here is that one "sub-system" can become more ordered, as long as the total system becomes more chaotic.

Does it make sense to you that a game of roulette can have the outcome red one million times in a row, as long as as somewhere else, there is total chaos? A similar argument is given for the evolution of life on earth. Due to the sun, the total entropy is still heading in the right direction, despite the increased order on earth.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 01:25 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
I said nothing about religion other than evolutionists, essentially having "faith" in what their $60 biology book told them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


What's really funny is the whole Neo-Darwinian theory (the Modern Synthesis) that has been preached as a "fact" in biology textbooks is getting flushed down the drain by more current understandings of epigenetics, plasticity, soft-inhertiance, lamarckism, environment-induced changes etc. Plenty of in-fighting between Evo's right now that is being shielded from the public lest they sense dissension in the religious ranks.

The Darwinian mechanism of Random Mutation + Natural Selection doesn't 'evolve' anything. It's a flop. The most noticeable changes we do observe have nothing to do with random mutations. They reflect a built in system of adaptability in organisms that runs like clockwork.

"So yea.. all that Dawkinsian blind watchmaker stuff we told you was true your whole life.. yea we were wrong about that.. but Evolution is still a fact!"
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:28 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Your logic is flawed...

If you are right, then living organisms DO NOT AGE... feel silly yet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


So if your logic is right why doesn't a pan on the stove cool down but stays at a steady temperature?
 Quoting: John Kimble


You are adding energy.. you didn't even touch on the second law.

If you want me to spell it out, EVERYTHING is a closed loop. I would have thought you would have known that.

For shits and giggles, what energy is being added to the rotation of the Earth to make it 4.5 billion years old?
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 01:28 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
The second law of thermodynamics implies that all things in nature go from a more ordered state towards chaos or heat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23585212


No it doesn't. The second law is a law governing the relations between states of energy in a closed system.
I'm da party poopa
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 01:30 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
You are adding energy.. you didn't even touch on the second law.

If you want me to spell it out, EVERYTHING is a closed loop. I would have thought you would have known that.

For shits and giggles, what energy is being added to the rotation of the Earth to make it 4.5 billion years old?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Yes, adding energy, making it not a closed system. Just like an living organism ads energy through food or the sun, therefor it is not a closed system.

2nd law of thermo dynamics only applies to closed systems, so if that system gets external energy it is not a closed system anymore and therefor the 2nd law doesn't apply.
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:31 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
The second law of thermodynamics implies that all things in nature go from a more ordered state towards chaos or heat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23585212


No it doesn't. The second law is a law governing the relations between states of energy in a closed system.
 Quoting: John Kimble

Ok so replace thing by system.

"The second law of thermodynamics states that in general the total entropy of any system will not decrease other than by increasing the entropy of some other system. Hence, in a system isolated from its environment, the entropy of that system will tend not to decrease"
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:33 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
We didn't evolve FROM apes, we ARE apes. Just hairless, smarter, and with better looking females.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:33 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
You are adding energy.. you didn't even touch on the second law.

If you want me to spell it out, EVERYTHING is a closed loop. I would have thought you would have known that.

For shits and giggles, what energy is being added to the rotation of the Earth to make it 4.5 billion years old?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Yes, adding energy, making it not a closed system. Just like an living organism ads energy through food or the sun, therefor it is not a closed system.

2nd law of thermo dynamics only applies to closed systems, so if that system gets external energy it is not a closed system anymore and therefor the 2nd law doesn't apply.
 Quoting: John Kimble

That was my point.

In order to increase order in one system, it must be compensated by increased entropy in another system. Hence the analogy with the casino, and in the case of life, the sun.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:33 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
You are adding energy.. you didn't even touch on the second law.

If you want me to spell it out, EVERYTHING is a closed loop. I would have thought you would have known that.

For shits and giggles, what energy is being added to the rotation of the Earth to make it 4.5 billion years old?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Yes, adding energy, making it not a closed system. Just like an living organism ads energy through food or the sun, therefor it is not a closed system.

2nd law of thermo dynamics only applies to closed systems, so if that system gets external energy it is not a closed system anymore and therefor the 2nd law doesn't apply.
 Quoting: John Kimble


Name one animal that doesn't die, or age because of the sun and eating.

I'm pretty sure I am a closed system, I do age no matter how much I go to the beach and eat my greens...

So what is an example of an open system? Does the Sun keep the the earth spinning through UV rays?
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 01:34 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Ok so replace thing by system.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23585212


correction, closed system.
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 01:35 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
You're right. It only falsifies the entire deep-time dating framework that Evo's have been pushing as a fact for a century. "So Dinos aren't millions of years old after all! No big deal. Everything else we said is true, though. Evolution is a fact after all." lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


We didn't date dino's as millions of years old cause evolution says so. You need to understand what evolution is before you try to attack it.
 Quoting: John Kimble


If dinosaurs dated at 65+ mya are now discovered to be less than 100,000 years old, than all deep-time dating is down the drain. (though deep-time dating has been replete with error and inconsistency in general)

Not to mention these dinosaur fossils regularly include proteins, confirmed as belonging to the dinosaur. Proteins DO NOT hang around for millions of years.

We now have a situation where the natural laws of organic decay are being rewritten because our current data contradicts the evolution story of dinosaurs being 65mya old.

I'm not saying this 'disproves evolution', it simply shows how evolutionists dating methods are based on assumptions and faith in known erroneous methodologies.
Keep2theCode

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02/18/2013 01:35 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
I agree that mutation as a process for evolution is not possible. But how else could evolution occur.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34434006

That's the evos' problem to solve. ;-D

The change in genetics that actually is necessary for an evolution process is thus explained by an external force they call the Designer. It is because they cannot explain it, so it is added something supernatural.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

Lack of explanation is not the only factor here. In fact, it is precisely because we do understand the complexity of DNA that we propose a designer, since "no effect is greater than its cause". It's what we know that leads us to Intelligent Design, not what we don't know.

The scientists should use the physical only to prove theories, What is done by spirit or something in other dimensions, they have no instruments to measure.

So it will be religion no matter. You must have faith in it. Else how can we otherwise uphold the evolution theory.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

Agree.

But may be it is a matter of time that we can find the probability is thee after all. In some way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

And here again we're in the realm of faith and hope.

I feel as if it is better to say that God created all species at once, instead of using intelligent design as a pseudoscientific tool.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

Disagree. ID is not "pseudoscientific" in the slightest. It's actually more scientific than ToE because it lets the data lead to the conclusions, not the other way around. The "Cambrian Explosion" is very good evidence for sudden appearance of all kinds of life. But ID simply is naturalism that knows its limits.

Because then we will end up always that evolution is right. So when we find new facts we only adjust it a little bit with the explanation that intelligent design did it.

Ok we can set as a condition that evoluion has to be, and then explain all new facts by it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11400595

Again, I disagree that there is much in common between ID and ToE.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:35 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
The second law of thermodynamics implies that all things in nature go from a more ordered state towards chaos or heat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23585212


No it doesn't. The second law is a law governing the relations between states of energy in a closed system.
 Quoting: John Kimble

Ok so replace thing by system.

"The second law of thermodynamics states that in general the total entropy of any system will not decrease other than by increasing the entropy of some other system. Hence, in a system isolated from its environment, the entropy of that system will tend not to decrease"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23585212


The second law deals with a closed system, the Earth isn't a closed system. It has an external influence - the SUN.
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 01:36 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Name one animal that doesn't die, or age because of the sun and eating.

I'm pretty sure I am a closed system, I do age no matter how much I go to the beach and eat my greens...

So what is an example of an open system? Does the Sun keep the the earth spinning through UV rays?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


You die cause at some point your body isn't able to function properly enough to sustain life. It doesn't make you a closed system.

You are an open system. Why doesn;t your skin deteriorate? Why don't you start rotting 2 weeks after you were born? why does your body temperature stay stable for about 70-80 years?
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:36 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
The second law of thermodynamics implies that all things in nature go from a more ordered state towards chaos or heat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23585212


No it doesn't. The second law is a law governing the relations between states of energy in a closed system.
 Quoting: John Kimble

Ok so replace thing by system.

"The second law of thermodynamics states that in general the total entropy of any system will not decrease other than by increasing the entropy of some other system. Hence, in a system isolated from its environment, the entropy of that system will tend not to decrease"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23585212


The second law deals with a closed system, the Earth isn't a closed system. It has an external influence - the SUN.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34679359



give me an example of something that the sun doesn't kill over time
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 01:37 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
We didn't evolve FROM apes, we ARE apes. Just hairless, smarter, and with better looking females.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34679359


My what religious conviction. Did you say your seven "Hail Darwins" today?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:38 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
We didn't evolve FROM apes, we ARE apes. Just hairless, smarter, and with better looking females.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34679359


My what religious conviction. Did you say your seven "Hail Darwins" today?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


if you had to classify us, what would you say we were?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:38 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
The second law of thermodynamics implies that all things in nature go from a more ordered state towards chaos or heat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23585212


No it doesn't. The second law is a law governing the relations between states of energy in a closed system.
 Quoting: John Kimble

Ok so replace thing by system.

"The second law of thermodynamics states that in general the total entropy of any system will not decrease other than by increasing the entropy of some other system. Hence, in a system isolated from its environment, the entropy of that system will tend not to decrease"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23585212


The second law deals with a closed system, the Earth isn't a closed system. It has an external influence - the SUN.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34679359

Hence my analogy, that if someone wins in roulette a million times in a row that's feasible as long as there is compensating chaos in another system.
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:39 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
Name one animal that doesn't die, or age because of the sun and eating.

I'm pretty sure I am a closed system, I do age no matter how much I go to the beach and eat my greens...

So what is an example of an open system? Does the Sun keep the the earth spinning through UV rays?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


You die cause at some point your body isn't able to function properly enough to sustain life. It doesn't make you a closed system.

You are an open system. Why doesn;t your skin deteriorate? Why don't you start rotting 2 weeks after you were born? why does your body temperature stay stable for about 70-80 years?
 Quoting: John Kimble


You are wrong sir, your skin is completely regenerated after a couple weeks. It is always dying.

2nd law says everything wants to be dust, UNLESS there is some external energy source.

do you have an external energy source?

Can you name 1 thing that the second law doesn't apply too? thought maybe?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/18/2013 01:43 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
We didn't evolve FROM apes, we ARE apes. Just hairless, smarter, and with better looking females.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34679359


My what religious conviction. Did you say your seven "Hail Darwins" today?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


if you had to classify us, what would you say we were?
 Quoting: Oyster


I would classify you as a person holding faith in a naturalist creation story without being able to advance scientific arguments for it.


That was the purpose of creating this thread.. still waiting...
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:44 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
We didn't evolve FROM apes, we ARE apes. Just hairless, smarter, and with better looking females.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34679359


My what religious conviction. Did you say your seven "Hail Darwins" today?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


if you had to classify us, what would you say we were?
 Quoting: Oyster


I would classify you as a person holding faith in a naturalist creation story without being able to advance scientific arguments for it.


That was the purpose of creating this thread.. still waiting...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


so you arent going to answer the question?

or is that seriously your answer?
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:47 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
We didn't evolve FROM apes, we ARE apes. Just hairless, smarter, and with better looking females.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34679359


My what religious conviction. Did you say your seven "Hail Darwins" today?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


if you had to classify us, what would you say we were?
 Quoting: Oyster


I would classify you as a person holding faith in a naturalist creation story without being able to advance scientific arguments for it.


That was the purpose of creating this thread.. still waiting...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


The thread was a challenge to evolutionists... Not the other way around.

I beat you, your evolution theory is fictional fairy tail garbage, and people on these boards are upset they paid money to get indoctrinated into believing the garbage from universities. I understand. But you are all big boys now, and should be able to question some of the gross errors, and ethical problems with evolution, as well as understand that it doesn't even qualify as a scientific hypothesis.
uscrusader1

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02/18/2013 01:49 PM

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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
I spent 20 minutes reading this thread and didn't learn anything new. Additionally, no one has asked the question that gets to the crux of the matter: Why is it important that we know these things? Life is here, life is now. Live it, and stop looking for validation. Have a nice day.
 Quoting: jay-j


It is important to disprove shit , fake, garbage science. Evolutionism = Humanism = Eugenics = Racism


say what you want about religions, but the worst mentality is that of the evolutionist
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Thread discussion on GLP is at best cathartic. :)
US Infidelis
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 01:50 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
do you have an external energy source?

Can you name 1 thing that the second law doesn't apply too? thought maybe?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Yes, food.

Things that are not closed systems, have told you that like 5 times already.
I'm da party poopa
Anonymous Coward
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02/18/2013 01:50 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
do you have an external energy source?

Can you name 1 thing that the second law doesn't apply too? thought maybe?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Yes, food.

Things that are not closed systems, have told you that like 5 times already.
 Quoting: John Kimble


i cant even think of a closed system that exists.
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 01:51 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
You are wrong sir, your skin is completely regenerated after a couple weeks. It is always dying.

2nd law says everything wants to be dust, UNLESS there is some external energy source.

do you have an external energy source?

Can you name 1 thing that the second law doesn't apply too? thought maybe?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Ok so why do you keep the same body temperature? WHy don't you start with like 80C body temperature when you are born that slowly decreases till 0? @nd law right?
I'm da party poopa
Surfbum25

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02/18/2013 01:52 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
We didn't evolve FROM apes, we ARE apes. Just hairless, smarter, and with better looking females.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34679359


My what religious conviction. Did you say your seven "Hail Darwins" today?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


if you had to classify us, what would you say we were?
 Quoting: Oyster


I would classify you as a person holding faith in a naturalist creation story without being able to advance scientific arguments for it.


That was the purpose of creating this thread.. still waiting...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23223519


All you have stated in this thread is that evolution is false because life is so complex theres just no way it could have done it on its own..there 'must' be some itelligent design behind it...it could never get this far naturally..

Sooo, because its hard to understand and at times unexplainable, its false..

Sounds like religion and creation to me.. Its almost as if your a pot, and your calling the kettle...wait, no nevermind..
John Kimble

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02/18/2013 01:52 PM
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Re: CHALLENGE TO EVOLUTIONISTS
do you have an external energy source?

Can you name 1 thing that the second law doesn't apply too? thought maybe?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6853586


Yes, food.

Things that are not closed systems, have told you that like 5 times already.
 Quoting: John Kimble


i cant even think of a closed system that exists.
 Quoting: Oyster


true isolated systems don't exist.
I'm da party poopa

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