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If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 05:17 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
We are talking about mitigating persistent contrails . . . not engaging in active geoengineering. . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


Since persistent contrails are a global phenomenon that affect radiative forcing, and hence climatology, any intentional change IS geo-engineering whether you want to admit it or not. They are not a local pollution like acid rain. We don’t know enough to make a change either way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


So we shouldn't reduce the sulfur content of gasoline from 300ppm to 10ppm with that logic or have installed catalytic converters on cars . . . very strange logic . . . persistent contrails are not natural . . . they are something we can remove without fear of causing an imbalance in nature . . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


Different and I already said the difference. They form low level pollution that immediately affects people's health. Mitigating persistent contrails, in itself, is not a bad thing but the question needs to be asked, will there be unintended consequences? You may think you know, but you don't. No one knows yet. Then there is the cost, what if we have to spend $100 billion to mitigate and it does not change climate either way. Is the cost worth it? I have already posted links showing the FAA is studying the problem. They haven’t reached a conclusion yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


But Jorge as...because he has studied the subject through google...
George B (OP)

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03/31/2013 05:31 PM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
We are talking about mitigating persistent contrails . . . not engaging in active geoengineering. . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


Since persistent contrails are a global phenomenon that affect radiative forcing, and hence climatology, any intentional change IS geo-engineering whether you want to admit it or not. They are not a local pollution like acid rain. We don’t know enough to make a change either way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


So we shouldn't reduce the sulfur content of gasoline from 300ppm to 10ppm with that logic or have installed catalytic converters on cars . . . very strange logic . . . persistent contrails are not natural . . . they are something we can remove without fear of causing an imbalance in nature . . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


Different and I already said the difference. They form low level pollution that immediately affects people's health. Mitigating persistent contrails, in itself, is not a bad thing but the question needs to be asked, will there be unintended consequences? You may think you know, but you don't. No one knows yet. Then there is the cost, what if we have to spend $100 billion to mitigate and it does not change climate either way. Is the cost worth it? I have already posted links showing the FAA is studying the problem. They haven’t reached a conclusion yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Come on . . . no serious atmospheric scientist believes persistent contrails are not a concern and should not be mitigated . . . the only thing is a commitment from IPCC and the agencies like FAA to request action . . . it could be as simple as placing mirrors or video cameras in the cockpits so flight crews are aware they are leaving a persistent trail . . . coffee4
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 05:45 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


Since persistent contrails are a global phenomenon that affect radiative forcing, and hence climatology, any intentional change IS geo-engineering whether you want to admit it or not. They are not a local pollution like acid rain. We don’t know enough to make a change either way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


So we shouldn't reduce the sulfur content of gasoline from 300ppm to 10ppm with that logic or have installed catalytic converters on cars . . . very strange logic . . . persistent contrails are not natural . . . they are something we can remove without fear of causing an imbalance in nature . . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


Different and I already said the difference. They form low level pollution that immediately affects people's health. Mitigating persistent contrails, in itself, is not a bad thing but the question needs to be asked, will there be unintended consequences? You may think you know, but you don't. No one knows yet. Then there is the cost, what if we have to spend $100 billion to mitigate and it does not change climate either way. Is the cost worth it? I have already posted links showing the FAA is studying the problem. They haven’t reached a conclusion yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Come on . . . no serious atmospheric scientist believes persistent contrails are not a concern and should not be mitigated . . . the only thing is a commitment from IPCC and the agencies like FAA to request action . . . it could be as simple as placing mirrors or video cameras in the cockpits so flight crews are aware they are leaving a persistent trail . . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


A concern yes but still no one can say what would happen with the change. No one, and that includes you. ANY change in radiative forcing has consequences.
George B (OP)

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03/31/2013 05:51 PM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


So we shouldn't reduce the sulfur content of gasoline from 300ppm to 10ppm with that logic or have installed catalytic converters on cars . . . very strange logic . . . persistent contrails are not natural . . . they are something we can remove without fear of causing an imbalance in nature . . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


Different and I already said the difference. They form low level pollution that immediately affects people's health. Mitigating persistent contrails, in itself, is not a bad thing but the question needs to be asked, will there be unintended consequences? You may think you know, but you don't. No one knows yet. Then there is the cost, what if we have to spend $100 billion to mitigate and it does not change climate either way. Is the cost worth it? I have already posted links showing the FAA is studying the problem. They haven’t reached a conclusion yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Come on . . . no serious atmospheric scientist believes persistent contrails are not a concern and should not be mitigated . . . the only thing is a commitment from IPCC and the agencies like FAA to request action . . . it could be as simple as placing mirrors or video cameras in the cockpits so flight crews are aware they are leaving a persistent trail . . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


A concern yes but still no one can say what would happen with the change. No one, and that includes you. ANY change in radiative forcing has consequences.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

So you fear mitigating contrails could have a deleterious effect . . . and what might that be???coffee4
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
WindyMind

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03/31/2013 05:56 PM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
The new season of Game of Thrones is starting now......if your into that....yay
George B (OP)

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03/31/2013 06:00 PM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
The new season of Game of Thrones is starting now......if your into that....yay
 Quoting: WindyMind


Only saw it once . . . have fun . . . ohyeah
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 06:09 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


Different and I already said the difference. They form low level pollution that immediately affects people's health. Mitigating persistent contrails, in itself, is not a bad thing but the question needs to be asked, will there be unintended consequences? You may think you know, but you don't. No one knows yet. Then there is the cost, what if we have to spend $100 billion to mitigate and it does not change climate either way. Is the cost worth it? I have already posted links showing the FAA is studying the problem. They haven’t reached a conclusion yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Come on . . . no serious atmospheric scientist believes persistent contrails are not a concern and should not be mitigated . . . the only thing is a commitment from IPCC and the agencies like FAA to request action . . . it could be as simple as placing mirrors or video cameras in the cockpits so flight crews are aware they are leaving a persistent trail . . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


A concern yes but still no one can say what would happen with the change. No one, and that includes you. ANY change in radiative forcing has consequences.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

So you fear mitigating contrails could have a deleterious effect . . . and what might that be???
 Quoting: George B


Gee, if I knew that it wouldn't be unknown now would it? It is a change in radiative forcing. Can you predict what will happen when you change the radiative forcing?
George B (OP)

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03/31/2013 06:18 PM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...

Come on . . . no serious atmospheric scientist believes persistent contrails are not a concern and should not be mitigated . . . the only thing is a commitment from IPCC and the agencies like FAA to request action . . . it could be as simple as placing mirrors or video cameras in the cockpits so flight crews are aware they are leaving a persistent trail . . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


A concern yes but still no one can say what would happen with the change. No one, and that includes you. ANY change in radiative forcing has consequences.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

So you fear mitigating contrails could have a deleterious effect . . . and what might that be???
 Quoting: George B


Gee, if I knew that it wouldn't be unknown now would it? It is a change in radiative forcing. Can you predict what will happen when you change the radiative forcing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Generally speaking there will be less long wave radiation reflected back to the surface and thus a net cooling trend would be expected within the troposphere . . . coffee4
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 06:30 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


A concern yes but still no one can say what would happen with the change. No one, and that includes you. ANY change in radiative forcing has consequences.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

So you fear mitigating contrails could have a deleterious effect . . . and what might that be???
 Quoting: George B


Gee, if I knew that it wouldn't be unknown now would it? It is a change in radiative forcing. Can you predict what will happen when you change the radiative forcing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Generally speaking there will be less long wave radiation reflected back to the surface and thus a net cooling trend would be expected within the troposphere . . .
 Quoting: George B


Shortwave is just the opposite. Midwave, don't know.
George B (OP)

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03/31/2013 06:59 PM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...

So you fear mitigating contrails could have a deleterious effect . . . and what might that be???
 Quoting: George B


Gee, if I knew that it wouldn't be unknown now would it? It is a change in radiative forcing. Can you predict what will happen when you change the radiative forcing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Generally speaking there will be less long wave radiation reflected back to the surface and thus a net cooling trend would be expected within the troposphere . . .
 Quoting: George B


Shortwave is just the opposite. Midwave, don't know.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Shortwave radiation is the type of energy that comes in from space and some is immediately reflected back into space the rest gets into the troposphere and is absorbed and re-transmitted as long wave radiation or infrared radiation . . .
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 08:06 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


Gee, if I knew that it wouldn't be unknown now would it? It is a change in radiative forcing. Can you predict what will happen when you change the radiative forcing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Generally speaking there will be less long wave radiation reflected back to the surface and thus a net cooling trend would be expected within the troposphere . . .
 Quoting: George B


Shortwave is just the opposite. Midwave, don't know.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Shortwave radiation is the type of energy that comes in from space and some is immediately reflected back into space the rest gets into the troposphere and is absorbed and re-transmitted as long wave radiation or infrared radiation . . .
 Quoting: George B


I know what the wavelengths are. The shortwave effect is opposite the longwave effect. I am unsure the affect the midwave has on radiative forcing.
George B (OP)

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03/31/2013 08:19 PM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...

Generally speaking there will be less long wave radiation reflected back to the surface and thus a net cooling trend would be expected within the troposphere . . .
 Quoting: George B


Shortwave is just the opposite. Midwave, don't know.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Shortwave radiation is the type of energy that comes in from space and some is immediately reflected back into space the rest gets into the troposphere and is absorbed and re-transmitted as long wave radiation or infrared radiation . . .
 Quoting: George B


I know what the wavelengths are. The shortwave effect is opposite the longwave effect. I am unsure the affect the midwave has on radiative forcing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


Please link to what you are talking about . . .
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 08:31 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


Shortwave is just the opposite. Midwave, don't know.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183

Shortwave radiation is the type of energy that comes in from space and some is immediately reflected back into space the rest gets into the troposphere and is absorbed and re-transmitted as long wave radiation or infrared radiation . . .
 Quoting: George B


I know what the wavelengths are. The shortwave effect is opposite the longwave effect. I am unsure the affect the midwave has on radiative forcing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


Please link to what you are talking about . . .
 Quoting: George B


I already have
George B (OP)

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03/31/2013 08:45 PM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
You talking about these . . .?



[link to www.faa.gov]

[link to www.faa.gov]

[link to web.mit.edu]
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 08:54 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
No one, repeat no-one will ever come even one tenth to persuading me that Chemtrails are anti-human and the work of our governments

Ever

So don't bother replying if you imagine you or a thousand of you will ever persuade me other than my firm conviction that Chemtrails are being sprayed in our skies continually and they are not designed to be beneficial to humans

We have watched them for years here. Hundreds of us. And when we speak to people from other suburbs, they also are of the very firm conviction our government should be hanged for treason

There has never been a commercial or even private plane with a reason to spray grid-style 'contrails' over populated areas. Air traffic control would put out an alert immediately and the defence forces would be required to rid the skies of any such plane

We watch them heading back to base, spraying until their tanks are empty

We watch them spraying at night

And we know now, beyond shadow of doubt, that they spray like maniacs anytime rain is on the horizon

We saw them spray for months on end to create the phony droughts which resulted in farmers having to walk off their farms, leaving five generations of family-farmers' work for Saudis and Chinese to buy up

The Chemtrail-created phony droughts also enabled governments and local authorities to restrict water use to punitive degree

Chemtrails poison the air, the water and crops

Tens of thousands of sell-out bastards pay their mortgages and holiday homes with the blood-money they earn from the Chemtrail industry

when they die, millions of their victims await them and will extract eternal revenge
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 08:55 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
should be:

' No one, repeat no-one will ever come even one tenth to persuading me that Chemtrails are NOT anti-human and the work of our governments'
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 09:18 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
George...aaahhhhhhh! Thank you.

My greatest fear is a boomerang affect; what we are doing is an unknown even to the greatest of minds.

And sure...I am emotional about it.

tounge
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 09:30 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
No one, repeat no-one will ever come even one tenth to persuading me that Chemtrails are NOT anti-human and the work of our governments

Ever

So don't bother replying if you imagine you or a thousand of you will ever persuade me other than my firm conviction that Chemtrails are being sprayed in our skies continually and they are not designed to be beneficial to humans

We have watched them for years here. Hundreds of us. And when we speak to people from other suburbs, they also are of the very firm conviction our government should be hanged for treason

There has never been a commercial or even private plane with a reason to spray grid-style 'contrails' over populated areas. Air traffic control would put out an alert immediately and the defence forces would be required to rid the skies of any such plane

We watch them heading back to base, spraying until their tanks are empty

We watch them spraying at night

And we know now, beyond shadow of doubt, that they spray like maniacs anytime rain is on the horizon

We saw them spray for months on end to create the phony droughts which resulted in farmers having to walk off their farms, leaving five generations of family-farmers' work for Saudis and Chinese to buy up

The Chemtrail-created phony droughts also enabled governments and local authorities to restrict water use to punitive degree

Chemtrails poison the air, the water and crops

Tens of thousands of sell-out bastards pay their mortgages and holiday homes with the blood-money they earn from the Chemtrail industry

when they die, millions of their victims await them and will extract eternal revenge
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37221599


hf

It may take a generation...sad but true.
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 09:49 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


NOT one practical mitigation practice . . . I agree there have been studies, research and proposals . . . I have posted many of them myself . . . coffee4
 Quoting: George B


So you believe in reacting rather than studying what could be done first. You are just as bad as the airline industry. Study first and try not to make things worse.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


How many years do you have to study something before you take a practical step . . . it has been studied intensely since the late 1990s????:

 Quoting: George B


I am not so quick to jump on the geo-engineering bandwagon as you. As soon as you do something with the intent of making changes you are geo-engineering. We do not know the climatology well enough to embark down the geo-engineering trail. There could be unintended consequences. I don’t mind at all people studying and discussing the issue but we have to be sure of the results. No second chance. And no, I do not think contrails or persistent contrails (what some call chemtrails) are an intentional attempt at geo-engineering. We know fairly well how, why, when, and where contrails form and can persistent. The ones we see fit our understanding of contrail formation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


Sorry to tell you but we have already embarked. Geoengineering/cloud seeding is done in many states currently. It is the law in some states. Wake up.

Yes snipped from research but a no brainer...really.

2.2. Delivery mechanism

Since commercial airliners routinely fly in the region where cold cirrus clouds exist, it is hoped that the seeding material could either be (1) dissolved or suspended in their jet fuel and later burned with the fuel to create seeding aerosol, or (2) injected into the hot engine exhaust, which should vaporize the seeding material, allowing it to condense as aerosol in the jet contrail. The objective would not be to seed specific cloud systems but rather to build up a background concentration of aerosol seeding material so that the air masses that cirrus will form in will contain the appropriate amount of seeding material to produce larger ice crystals. Since the residence time of seeding material might be on the order of 1–2 weeks, release rates of seeding material would need to account for this. With the delivery process already existing, this geoengineering approach may be less expensive than other proposed approaches.

[link to iopscience.iop.org]
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03/31/2013 09:53 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 10:15 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
[link to www.bbc.com]

So how does that work? The ice crystals of cirrus clouds generally form spontaneously in moist, cold air. But seed particles, if present in the right concentration, could grab all the water vapour to produce a small number of large ice crystals, preventing the formation of lots of unseeded little ones. This would have two consequences. First, the resulting clouds would be more transparent – just as big blobs of water in oil create a more transparent mixture as salad dressing separates out, compared with the milky, opaque emulsion you get when you shake it into lots of tiny droplets. Thinner clouds absorb less radiation from the warm ground, allowing more to escape into space. Second, clouds made from larger ice particles have shorter lives, because the big crystals sink down through the atmosphere under gravity.

Fine balance

One of the advantages of climate engineering via clouds is that the effects are transient: if it doesn’t go to plan, the process can be stopped and all will return to normal in a matter of weeks. Mitchell and Finnegan suggested that one could seed cirrus clouds by releasing particles from aircraft. They also suggested a good material for the seeds, the somewhat exotic (but not excessively costly) compound bismuth tri-iodide, as it is known to promote ice formation on its surface.
__________________________________________________________

lol. Any geoengineering going on in England yet?
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 10:43 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
Definition of chemtrail

noun

a visible trail left in the sky by an aircraft and believed by some to consist of chemical or biological agents released as part of a covert operation.


[link to oxforddictionaries.com]
Anonymous Coward
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03/31/2013 10:45 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
[link to chemtrailsplanet.files.wordpress.com]
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03/31/2013 10:49 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5141990


Interesting but....

Yes I may change my mind at any given moment.
George B (OP)

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04/01/2013 04:29 AM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
should be:

' No one, repeat no-one will ever come even one tenth to persuading me that Chemtrails are NOT anti-human and the work of our governments'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37221599


So drought in Australia, drought in many parts of the US. . . . normal cycles of mother nature or are we trying to manipulate their presence or reduce their effect. . . interesting questions. . . .coffee4
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
George B (OP)

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04/01/2013 04:33 AM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
George...aaahhhhhhh! Thank you.

My greatest fear is a boomerang affect; what we are doing is an unknown even to the greatest of minds.

And sure...I am emotional about it.

tounge
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5141990


Anytime man ventures forth to modify their environment . . . the consequences are most unpredictable. . . .coffee4
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
George B (OP)

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04/01/2013 04:39 AM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


So you believe in reacting rather than studying what could be done first. You are just as bad as the airline industry. Study first and try not to make things worse.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


How many years do you have to study something before you take a practical step . . . it has been studied intensely since the late 1990s????:

 Quoting: George B


I am not so quick to jump on the geo-engineering bandwagon as you. As soon as you do something with the intent of making changes you are geo-engineering. We do not know the climatology well enough to embark down the geo-engineering trail. There could be unintended consequences. I don’t mind at all people studying and discussing the issue but we have to be sure of the results. No second chance. And no, I do not think contrails or persistent contrails (what some call chemtrails) are an intentional attempt at geo-engineering. We know fairly well how, why, when, and where contrails form and can persistent. The ones we see fit our understanding of contrail formation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


Sorry to tell you but we have already embarked. Geoengineering/cloud seeding is done in many states currently. It is the law in some states. Wake up.

Yes snipped from research but a no brainer...really.

2.2. Delivery mechanism

Since commercial airliners routinely fly in the region where cold cirrus clouds exist, it is hoped that the seeding material could either be (1) dissolved or suspended in their jet fuel and later burned with the fuel to create seeding aerosol, or (2) injected into the hot engine exhaust, which should vaporize the seeding material, allowing it to condense as aerosol in the jet contrail. The objective would not be to seed specific cloud systems but rather to build up a background concentration of aerosol seeding material so that the air masses that cirrus will form in will contain the appropriate amount of seeding material to produce larger ice crystals. Since the residence time of seeding material might be on the order of 1–2 weeks, release rates of seeding material would need to account for this. With the delivery process already existing, this geoengineering approach may be less expensive than other proposed approaches.

[link to iopscience.iop.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5141990


There is no question cloud seeding to promote precipitation is taking place in many regions of the globe. . . .the question beyond that is . . . are there more elaborate schemes ongoing. . . . ? peace

Last Edited by George B on 04/01/2013 04:48 AM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


So you believe in reacting rather than studying what could be done first. You are just as bad as the airline industry. Study first and try not to make things worse.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


How many years do you have to study something before you take a practical step . . . it has been studied intensely since the late 1990s????:

 Quoting: George B


I am not so quick to jump on the geo-engineering bandwagon as you. As soon as you do something with the intent of making changes you are geo-engineering. We do not know the climatology well enough to embark down the geo-engineering trail. There could be unintended consequences. I don’t mind at all people studying and discussing the issue but we have to be sure of the results. No second chance. And no, I do not think contrails or persistent contrails (what some call chemtrails) are an intentional attempt at geo-engineering. We know fairly well how, why, when, and where contrails form and can persistent. The ones we see fit our understanding of contrail formation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


Sorry to tell you but we have already embarked. Geoengineering/cloud seeding is done in many states currently. It is the law in some states. Wake up.

Yes snipped from research but a no brainer...really.

2.2. Delivery mechanism

Since commercial airliners routinely fly in the region where cold cirrus clouds exist, it is hoped that the seeding material could either be (1) dissolved or suspended in their jet fuel and later burned with the fuel to create seeding aerosol, or (2) injected into the hot engine exhaust, which should vaporize the seeding material, allowing it to condense as aerosol in the jet contrail. The objective would not be to seed specific cloud systems but rather to build up a background concentration of aerosol seeding material so that the air masses that cirrus will form in will contain the appropriate amount of seeding material to produce larger ice crystals. Since the residence time of seeding material might be on the order of 1–2 weeks, release rates of seeding material would need to account for this. With the delivery process already existing, this geoengineering approach may be less expensive than other proposed approaches.

[link to iopscience.iop.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5141990


Cloud seeding is not geoengineering. Cloud seeding is a local event that affects weather. Geoengineering is a global event that affects climate.
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
You talking about these . . .?



[link to www.faa.gov]

[link to www.faa.gov]

[link to web.mit.edu]
 Quoting: George B


Simulation of the global contrail radiative forcing: A sensitivity analysis

Bingqi Yi, Ping Yang, Kuo-Nan Liou, Patrick Minnis, and Joyce E. Penner

GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 39, L00F03, doi:10.1029/2012GL054042, 2012
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[link to www.bbc.com]

So how does that work? The ice crystals of cirrus clouds generally form spontaneously in moist, cold air. But seed particles, if present in the right concentration, could grab all the water vapour to produce a small number of large ice crystals, preventing the formation of lots of unseeded little ones. This would have two consequences. First, the resulting clouds would be more transparent – just as big blobs of water in oil create a more transparent mixture as salad dressing separates out, compared with the milky, opaque emulsion you get when you shake it into lots of tiny droplets. Thinner clouds absorb less radiation from the warm ground, allowing more to escape into space. Second, clouds made from larger ice particles have shorter lives, because the big crystals sink down through the atmosphere under gravity.

Fine balance

One of the advantages of climate engineering via clouds is that the effects are transient: if it doesn’t go to plan, the process can be stopped and all will return to normal in a matter of weeks. Mitchell and Finnegan suggested that one could seed cirrus clouds by releasing particles from aircraft. They also suggested a good material for the seeds, the somewhat exotic (but not excessively costly) compound bismuth tri-iodide, as it is known to promote ice formation on its surface.
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lol. Any geoengineering going on in England yet?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5141990


It says proposed

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