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If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?

 
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2013 08:32 AM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


So you are saying that with all of the thousands of researchers around the world studying global climate and all of the satellites taking data on the climate somehow no one would notice when the climate started to change. Really?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


I think they did and have but don't have the evidence or tools to determine what has been the exact cause of the changes observed . . . they have speculated but never allow themselves to consider that geoengineering is a possible cause . . . hiding2
 Quoting: George B


Oh Jorge...I think you need to contact them right away! All the tools and man hours of study they have and they missed the critical information you inven....err, understand!

I think you should just continue to post crap on this conspiracy site and make polls for chemtards! You are performing a great service for your country, and all of mankind. By posting your opinions and beliefs on GLP!

You are a true hero Jorge!

They need YOUR input to "allow" them to consider the geoengineering possibility!

So, continue to preach to the choir on conspiracy sites....that s sure to help.


Jorge, have you ever asked any environmental or atmospheric scientists if they have considered this possibility?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

1rof1

Please . . . no mainstream, established scientist is going to entertain such a question . . . if they did they would be jeopardizing their careers . . .
 Quoting: George B


No.
George B (OP)
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04/04/2013 08:45 AM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
So bottom-line there is significant circumstantial evidence that there are official secrets within the geoengineering and climate control research apparatus at LLNL going back to the same group who first computer modeled the effects of global warming and those who did the atomic research and research on SDI (Star Wars) . . .
 Quoting: George B


All you can say is that there are secrets at LLNL. You cannot conclude what they are about
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


I think you can because it is highly probable. . . because Caldeira was doing climate computer modeling but was asked to apply for a security clearance but refuse to do so and was thus denied access to the inner circle of LLNL . . . so if his expertise was climate modeling it makes sense he was being denied classified climate information . . . goodnews

More interesting info on the connection between LLNL, Teller and Geoengineering and SECRECY. . . .ohno

"In 1990, a year short of his doctorate, Caldeira went to Leningrad to study with Russian climate scientist Mikhail Budyko, one of the first champions of geoengineering. In the 1970s, Budyko had suggested an early version of the basic Teller-Wood idea — decrease the global temperature by shooting sunlight-scattering particles into the stratosphere. While he was in Leningrad, Caldeira's philosophical outlook still predisposed him to distrust such interventions, but years later that would change.

In 1993, the former peace activist accepted a research post at that haven of bombmakers, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Caldeira was running high-powered computer models to study the climate, but when he was offered a security clearance that would have allowed fuller access to the lab's resources, he tried to stay true to his old principles by declining. As a result, he didn't see much of Wood. "There's an outer fence at Livermore, and then there's an inner fence," Caldeira says. "Lowell worked inside the fence."


[link to www.wired.com]
 Quoting: George B


He didn't want a security clearance. Fine. How can you possibly extend that to mean there is chemtrail research going on. That makes absolutley no sense. It isn't logical
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3616254


I didn't say because he didn't want a security clearance that is why . . ." How can you possibly extend that to mean there is chemtrail research going on." another do

I said his job was climate research at LLNL and he was doing the first public computer modeling of the climate regarding albedo effects including geoengineering models. . . so if he was asked to get a clearance to perform more effectively . . . it simply goes to reason that the area where he was to work within classified information was in climate and geoengineering areas of research . . . aaa

Last Edited by George B on 04/04/2013 10:49 AM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2013 08:49 AM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


So you are saying that with all of the thousands of researchers around the world studying global climate and all of the satellites taking data on the climate somehow no one would notice when the climate started to change. Really?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


I think they did and have but don't have the evidence or tools to determine what has been the exact cause of the changes observed . . . they have speculated but never allow themselves to consider that geoengineering is a possible cause . . . hiding2
 Quoting: George B


Oh Jorge...I think you need to contact them right away! All the tools and man hours of study they have and they missed the critical information you inven....err, understand!

I think you should just continue to post crap on this conspiracy site and make polls for chemtards! You are performing a great service for your country, and all of mankind. By posting your opinions and beliefs on GLP!

You are a true hero Jorge!

They need YOUR input to "allow" them to consider the geoengineering possibility!

So, continue to preach to the choir on conspiracy sites....that s sure to help.


Jorge, have you ever asked any environmental or atmospheric scientists if they have considered this possibility?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

1rof1

Please . . . no mainstream, established scientist is going to entertain such a question . . . if they did they would be jeopardizing their careers . . .
 Quoting: George B


That's absolute bullshit George.

And you know it.
George B (OP)
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User ID: 19998253
United States
04/04/2013 08:56 AM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


I think they did and have but don't have the evidence or tools to determine what has been the exact cause of the changes observed . . . they have speculated but never allow themselves to consider that geoengineering is a possible cause . . . hiding2
 Quoting: George B


Oh Jorge...I think you need to contact them right away! All the tools and man hours of study they have and they missed the critical information you inven....err, understand!

I think you should just continue to post crap on this conspiracy site and make polls for chemtards! You are performing a great service for your country, and all of mankind. By posting your opinions and beliefs on GLP!

You are a true hero Jorge!

They need YOUR input to "allow" them to consider the geoengineering possibility!

So, continue to preach to the choir on conspiracy sites....that s sure to help.


Jorge, have you ever asked any environmental or atmospheric scientists if they have considered this possibility?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

1rof1

Please . . . no mainstream, established scientist is going to entertain such a question . . . if they did they would be jeopardizing their careers . . .
 Quoting: George B


No.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3616254

Show me one mainstream, established scientist making public comments regarding the existence of UFO abductions as anything other than psychological delusions . . . or UFOs or Chemtrails . . . so for a scientist to consider chemtrails as a possible explanation for increased aerosols in the stratosphere is a pipedream . . . they would rather identify undetected volcanic activity in the tropics as the source or unknown and unaccounted for ground source contributed by human activity . . . goodnews
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
George B (OP)
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User ID: 19998253
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04/04/2013 09:00 AM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


I think they did and have but don't have the evidence or tools to determine what has been the exact cause of the changes observed . . . they have speculated but never allow themselves to consider that geoengineering is a possible cause . . . hiding2
 Quoting: George B


Oh Jorge...I think you need to contact them right away! All the tools and man hours of study they have and they missed the critical information you inven....err, understand!

I think you should just continue to post crap on this conspiracy site and make polls for chemtards! You are performing a great service for your country, and all of mankind. By posting your opinions and beliefs on GLP!

You are a true hero Jorge!

They need YOUR input to "allow" them to consider the geoengineering possibility!

So, continue to preach to the choir on conspiracy sites....that s sure to help.


Jorge, have you ever asked any environmental or atmospheric scientists if they have considered this possibility?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

1rof1

Please . . . no mainstream, established scientist is going to entertain such a question . . . if they did they would be jeopardizing their careers . . .
 Quoting: George B


That's absolute bullshit George.

And you know it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465


Go ahead Noble, if you are so sure . . . you ask one to comment on the data NOAA presented in 2011 about the increase in Sulfur aerosols in the stratosphere during the 2000s . . . Ask them if Geoeengineering efforts or CHEMTRAILS could have been a source . . . could they eliminate it as a possible source???huffy
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
George B (OP)
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

User ID: 19998253
United States
04/04/2013 09:02 AM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


All you can say is that there are secrets at LLNL. You cannot conclude what they are about
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


I think you can because it is highly probable. . . because Caldeira was doing climate computer modeling but was asked to apply for a security clearance but refuse to do so and was thus denied access to the inner circle of LLNL . . . so if his expertise was climate modeling it makes sense he was being denied classified climate information . . . goodnews

More interesting info on the connection between LLNL, Teller and Geoengineering and SECRECY. . . .ohno

"In 1990, a year short of his doctorate, Caldeira went to Leningrad to study with Russian climate scientist Mikhail Budyko, one of the first champions of geoengineering. In the 1970s, Budyko had suggested an early version of the basic Teller-Wood idea — decrease the global temperature by shooting sunlight-scattering particles into the stratosphere. While he was in Leningrad, Caldeira's philosophical outlook still predisposed him to distrust such interventions, but years later that would change.

In 1993, the former peace activist accepted a research post at that haven of bombmakers, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Caldeira was running high-powered computer models to study the climate, but when he was offered a security clearance that would have allowed fuller access to the lab's resources, he tried to stay true to his old principles by declining. As a result, he didn't see much of Wood. "There's an outer fence at Livermore, and then there's an inner fence," Caldeira says. "Lowell worked inside the fence."


[link to www.wired.com]
 Quoting: George B

Further proof that LLNL was in advance of all climate studies and computer modeling . . .

"(LLNL) Researchers at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory are so far the only ones who have modelled the stratospheric albedo modification scheme . . .

ALBEDO ENHANCEMENT BY STRATOSPHERIC SULFUR INJECTIONS: A CONTRIBUTION TO RESOLVE A POLICY DILEMMA?
An Editorial Essay

(LLNL) Researchers at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory are so far the only ones who have modelled the stratospheric albedo modification scheme. In a first study, Govindasamy and Caldeirau (2000) simulated this by reducing the solar luminos- ity by 1.8%, to balance future climate warming by a doubling of CO2. Although solar radiative forcing has a different physics and spatial distribution than the in- frared effects caused by CO2, the model results indicated that the global temper- ature response by both perturbations at the Earth’ surface and atmosphere largely cancelled out. Although these preliminary model results would be in favor a strato- spheric sulfur injection operation, the required annual S inputs are large, so that the possibility of adverse environmental side effects needs to be fully researched before the countermeasure to greenhouse warming is attempted. What has to be done first, is to explore whether using a sulfur injection scheme with advanced micro-physical and radiation process descriptions will show similar model results as the simple solar luminosity adjustment scheme of Govindasamy and Caldeira (2000). Further studies, following those conducted by Govindasamy (2003), should address the biological effects of the albedo modification scheme. As already men- tioned, injection of soot may be an alternative, but in need of critical analysis. Such studies by themselves, even when the experiment is never done, will be very informative.

Page 5

[link to www.cogci.dk]
 Quoting: George B



Climate studies does not mean the contrails we see are chemtrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3616254


I have not said that ( Climate studies does not mean the contrails we see are chemtrails.)
. . . . I have said Chemtrail Conspiracy Advocates have most likely misidentified persistent contrails and contrail induced cirrus cloud banks and the resulting haze as Chemtrails and you know it . . . huffy

Last Edited by George B on 04/04/2013 09:05 AM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2013 04:15 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


Oh Jorge...I think you need to contact them right away! All the tools and man hours of study they have and they missed the critical information you inven....err, understand!

I think you should just continue to post crap on this conspiracy site and make polls for chemtards! You are performing a great service for your country, and all of mankind. By posting your opinions and beliefs on GLP!

You are a true hero Jorge!

They need YOUR input to "allow" them to consider the geoengineering possibility!

So, continue to preach to the choir on conspiracy sites....that s sure to help.


Jorge, have you ever asked any environmental or atmospheric scientists if they have considered this possibility?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

1rof1

Please . . . no mainstream, established scientist is going to entertain such a question . . . if they did they would be jeopardizing their careers . . .
 Quoting: George B


That's absolute bullshit George.

And you know it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465


Go ahead Noble, if you are so sure . . . you ask one to comment on the data NOAA presented in 2011 about the increase in Sulfur aerosols in the stratosphere during the 2000s . . . Ask them if Geoeengineering efforts or CHEMTRAILS could have been a source . . . could they eliminate it as a possible source???huffy
 Quoting: George B


No, you ask them..

It's your fucking claim, now find someone to back it up!


And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

And not being able to eliminate a source, doesn't make it the source!
George B (OP)
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

User ID: 13873512
United States
04/04/2013 04:20 PM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...

1rof1

Please . . . no mainstream, established scientist is going to entertain such a question . . . if they did they would be jeopardizing their careers . . .
 Quoting: George B


That's absolute bullshit George.

And you know it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465


Go ahead Noble, if you are so sure . . . you ask one to comment on the data NOAA presented in 2011 about the increase in Sulfur aerosols in the stratosphere during the 2000s . . . Ask them if Geoeengineering efforts or CHEMTRAILS could have been a source . . . could they eliminate it as a possible source???huffy
 Quoting: George B


No, you ask them..

It's your fucking claim, now find someone to back it up!


And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

And not being able to eliminate a source, doesn't make it the source!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

Thanks for making my point . . . ohyeah
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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04/04/2013 09:36 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


That's absolute bullshit George.

And you know it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465


Go ahead Noble, if you are so sure . . . you ask one to comment on the data NOAA presented in 2011 about the increase in Sulfur aerosols in the stratosphere during the 2000s . . . Ask them if Geoeengineering efforts or CHEMTRAILS could have been a source . . . could they eliminate it as a possible source???huffy
 Quoting: George B


No, you ask them..

It's your fucking claim, now find someone to back it up!


And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

And not being able to eliminate a source, doesn't make it the source!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

Thanks for making my point . . . ohyeah
 Quoting: George B


That wasn't your point...

Your point was that geoengineering couldn't be eliminated as a source.

Which, as you have pointed out, has nothing to do with persistence of the trail.

I'm referring to the fact that "chemtrails" isn't even a fucking word...so scientists ignore it...and the idiots who use it. They would, however, be well aware of unnatural (as well as natural) increases in aerosols in the atmosphere. That's what they do...study the atmosphere...not accept anecdotal bullshit it on conspiracy sites as fact.

I was also being sarcastic when I was calling you a "hero" for concentrating your pathetic efforts on a conspiracy site instead of asking an actual scientist what they know about increases in aerosols in the atmosphere.

Which, is the bottom line...

See how many who have actually studied the atmosphere give you the answer "geoengineering" ...or have an alternate explanation.
George B (OP)
Extinct But Not Forgotten!

User ID: 13873512
United States
04/05/2013 05:28 AM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


Go ahead Noble, if you are so sure . . . you ask one to comment on the data NOAA presented in 2011 about the increase in Sulfur aerosols in the stratosphere during the 2000s . . . Ask them if Geoeengineering efforts or CHEMTRAILS could have been a source . . . could they eliminate it as a possible source???huffy
 Quoting: George B


No, you ask them..

It's your fucking claim, now find someone to back it up!


And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

And not being able to eliminate a source, doesn't make it the source!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

Thanks for making my point . . . ohyeah
 Quoting: George B


That wasn't your point...

Your point was that geoengineering couldn't be eliminated as a source.

Which, as you have pointed out, has nothing to do with persistence of the trail.

I'm referring to the fact that "chemtrails" isn't even a fucking word...so scientists ignore it...and the idiots who use it. They would, however, be well aware of unnatural (as well as natural) increases in aerosols in the atmosphere. That's what they do...study the atmosphere...not accept anecdotal bullshit it on conspiracy sites as fact.

I was also being sarcastic when I was calling you a "hero" for concentrating your pathetic efforts on a conspiracy site instead of asking an actual scientist what they know about increases in aerosols in the atmosphere.

Which, is the bottom line...

See how many who have actually studied the atmosphere give you the answer "geoengineering" ...or have an alternate explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064


Of course they are going to give an alternative explanation because no one has admitted to active geoengineering. . . . If anything scientists know which side of their bread is buttered on . . . they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them . . .huffy

Last Edited by George B on 04/05/2013 05:29 AM
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2013 07:20 AM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
I have continually POSTED over and over that visibility has nothing to do with an aerosol injection program and that persistent trails in the sky are most assuredly persistent contrails and contrail induced cirrus cloud banks. huffy. . . . . .I am hiding nothing. . . .however, that being said, to suggest that the people who run the show are not capable and willing ( if they thought it necessary ) to engage in geoengineering is false. . . . and it would be very difficult to detect if done properly. . . .
 Quoting: George B


So you are saying that with all of the thousands of researchers around the world studying global climate and all of the satellites taking data on the climate somehow no one would notice when the climate started to change. Really?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


I think they did and have but don't have the evidence or tools to determine what has been the exact cause of the changes observed . . . they have speculated but never allow themselves to consider that geoengineering is a possible cause . . . hiding2
 Quoting: George B


So now all you have to do is show that there are changes and changes not predicted in the ways of global warming.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2013 07:23 AM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


None of those tests have anything to do with contrails and most of those tests were done at ground level, like inside the underground tunnels or from a ship.

"In another chapter, 'Large Area Coverage Trials', the MoD describes how between 1961 and 1968 more than a million people along the south coast of England, from Torquay to the New Forest, were exposed to bacteria including e.coli and bacillus globigii, which mimics anthrax. These releases came from a military ship, the Icewhale, anchored off the Dorset coast, which sprayed the micro-organisms in a five to 10-mile radius."

The air releases were at 500 feet, not 30,000
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


[link to www.whale.to]

One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36419852



Again read the report. The planes flew at 500 feet, not 30,000 feet. And since when is a car driving down the road anything like flying at 30,000 feet? Nothing in that report is talking about contrails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


Why don't you bring it forward than? Copy and paste it...500 ft from the article. Don't forget to post the link.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5141990


This is not a report I posted. Now you tell us that you didn't even bother to read it. I am not going to do the reading for you.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2013 07:26 AM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


[link to www.whale.to]

One chapter of the report, 'The Fluorescent Particle Trials', reveals how between 1955 and 1963 planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population. The chemical drifted miles inland, its fluorescence allowing the spread to be monitored. In another trial using zinc cadmium sulphide, a generator was towed along a road near Frome in Somerset where it spewed the chemical for an hour.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36419852



Again read the report. The planes flew at 500 feet, not 30,000 feet. And since when is a car driving down the road anything like flying at 30,000 feet? Nothing in that report is talking about contrails
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


Why don't you bring it forward than? Copy and paste it...500 ft from the article. Don't forget to post the link.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5141990


btw the report is about CHEMTRAILS not contrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5141990


The report is about neither. Low altitude tests and tests from the ground and from the sea and in tunnels have absolutely nothing to do with the contrails seen in the sky at 30,000 feet.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2013 07:28 AM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
So bottom-line there is significant circumstantial evidence that there are official secrets within the geoengineering and climate control research apparatus at LLNL going back to the same group who first computer modeled the effects of global warming and those who did the atomic research and research on SDI (Star Wars) . . .
 Quoting: George B


All you can say is that there are secrets at LLNL. You cannot conclude what they are about
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


I think you can because it is highly probable. . . because Caldeira was doing climate computer modeling but was asked to apply for a security clearance but refuse to do so and was thus denied access to the inner circle of LLNL . . . so if his expertise was climate modeling it makes sense he was being denied classified climate information . . . goodnews

More interesting info on the connection between LLNL, Teller and Geoengineering and SECRECY. . . .ohno

"In 1990, a year short of his doctorate, Caldeira went to Leningrad to study with Russian climate scientist Mikhail Budyko, one of the first champions of geoengineering. In the 1970s, Budyko had suggested an early version of the basic Teller-Wood idea — decrease the global temperature by shooting sunlight-scattering particles into the stratosphere. While he was in Leningrad, Caldeira's philosophical outlook still predisposed him to distrust such interventions, but years later that would change.

In 1993, the former peace activist accepted a research post at that haven of bombmakers, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Caldeira was running high-powered computer models to study the climate, but when he was offered a security clearance that would have allowed fuller access to the lab's resources, he tried to stay true to his old principles by declining. As a result, he didn't see much of Wood. "There's an outer fence at Livermore, and then there's an inner fence," Caldeira says. "Lowell worked inside the fence."


[link to www.wired.com]
 Quoting: George B

Further proof that LLNL was in advance of all climate studies and computer modeling . . .

"(LLNL) Researchers at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory are so far the only ones who have modelled the stratospheric albedo modification scheme . . .

ALBEDO ENHANCEMENT BY STRATOSPHERIC SULFUR INJECTIONS: A CONTRIBUTION TO RESOLVE A POLICY DILEMMA?
An Editorial Essay

(LLNL) Researchers at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory are so far the only ones who have modelled the stratospheric albedo modification scheme. In a first study, Govindasamy and Caldeirau (2000) simulated this by reducing the solar luminos- ity by 1.8%, to balance future climate warming by a doubling of CO2. Although solar radiative forcing has a different physics and spatial distribution than the in- frared effects caused by CO2, the model results indicated that the global temper- ature response by both perturbations at the Earth’ surface and atmosphere largely cancelled out. Although these preliminary model results would be in favor a strato- spheric sulfur injection operation, the required annual S inputs are large, so that the possibility of adverse environmental side effects needs to be fully researched before the countermeasure to greenhouse warming is attempted. What has to be done first, is to explore whether using a sulfur injection scheme with advanced micro-physical and radiation process descriptions will show similar model results as the simple solar luminosity adjustment scheme of Govindasamy and Caldeira (2000). Further studies, following those conducted by Govindasamy (2003), should address the biological effects of the albedo modification scheme. As already men- tioned, injection of soot may be an alternative, but in need of critical analysis. Such studies by themselves, even when the experiment is never done, will be very informative.

Page 5

[link to www.cogci.dk]
 Quoting: George B


They do studies. So what?
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2013 07:31 AM
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All you can say is that there are secrets at LLNL. You cannot conclude what they are about
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36488183


I think you can because it is highly probable. . . because Caldeira was doing climate computer modeling but was asked to apply for a security clearance but refuse to do so and was thus denied access to the inner circle of LLNL . . . so if his expertise was climate modeling it makes sense he was being denied classified climate information . . . goodnews

More interesting info on the connection between LLNL, Teller and Geoengineering and SECRECY. . . .ohno

"In 1990, a year short of his doctorate, Caldeira went to Leningrad to study with Russian climate scientist Mikhail Budyko, one of the first champions of geoengineering. In the 1970s, Budyko had suggested an early version of the basic Teller-Wood idea — decrease the global temperature by shooting sunlight-scattering particles into the stratosphere. While he was in Leningrad, Caldeira's philosophical outlook still predisposed him to distrust such interventions, but years later that would change.

In 1993, the former peace activist accepted a research post at that haven of bombmakers, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Caldeira was running high-powered computer models to study the climate, but when he was offered a security clearance that would have allowed fuller access to the lab's resources, he tried to stay true to his old principles by declining. As a result, he didn't see much of Wood. "There's an outer fence at Livermore, and then there's an inner fence," Caldeira says. "Lowell worked inside the fence."


[link to www.wired.com]
 Quoting: George B


He didn't want a security clearance. Fine. How can you possibly extend that to mean there is chemtrail research going on. That makes absolutley no sense. It isn't logical
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3616254


I didn't say because he didn't want a security clearance that is why . . ." How can you possibly extend that to mean there is chemtrail research going on." another do

I said his job was climate research at LLNL and he was doing the first public computer modeling of the climate regarding albedo effects including geoengineering models. . . so if he was asked to get a clearance to perform more effectively . . . it simply goes to reason that the area where he was to work within classified information was in climate and geoengineering areas of research . . . aaa
 Quoting: George B



Again no. There are other reasons he would need a security clearance. If the big computer is a classified computer you need a security clearance to use it. The areas could require a security clearance. You are jumping to conclusions.
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Oh Jorge...I think you need to contact them right away! All the tools and man hours of study they have and they missed the critical information you inven....err, understand!

I think you should just continue to post crap on this conspiracy site and make polls for chemtards! You are performing a great service for your country, and all of mankind. By posting your opinions and beliefs on GLP!

You are a true hero Jorge!

They need YOUR input to "allow" them to consider the geoengineering possibility!

So, continue to preach to the choir on conspiracy sites....that s sure to help.


Jorge, have you ever asked any environmental or atmospheric scientists if they have considered this possibility?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

1rof1

Please . . . no mainstream, established scientist is going to entertain such a question . . . if they did they would be jeopardizing their careers . . .
 Quoting: George B


No.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3616254

Show me one mainstream, established scientist making public comments regarding the existence of UFO abductions as anything other than psychological delusions . . . or UFOs or Chemtrails . . . so for a scientist to consider chemtrails as a possible explanation for increased aerosols in the stratosphere is a pipedream . . . they would rather identify undetected volcanic activity in the tropics as the source or unknown and unaccounted for ground source contributed by human activity . . . goodnews
 Quoting: George B


Look up Karl Popper and falsifiability. Those statements are not falsifiable so they are not scientific so of course a 'mainstream scientist' (whatever that even means) isn't going to say that because it isn't science.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2013 07:35 AM
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No, you ask them..

It's your fucking claim, now find someone to back it up!


And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

And not being able to eliminate a source, doesn't make it the source!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

Thanks for making my point . . . ohyeah
 Quoting: George B


That wasn't your point...

Your point was that geoengineering couldn't be eliminated as a source.

Which, as you have pointed out, has nothing to do with persistence of the trail.

I'm referring to the fact that "chemtrails" isn't even a fucking word...so scientists ignore it...and the idiots who use it. They would, however, be well aware of unnatural (as well as natural) increases in aerosols in the atmosphere. That's what they do...study the atmosphere...not accept anecdotal bullshit it on conspiracy sites as fact.

I was also being sarcastic when I was calling you a "hero" for concentrating your pathetic efforts on a conspiracy site instead of asking an actual scientist what they know about increases in aerosols in the atmosphere.

Which, is the bottom line...

See how many who have actually studied the atmosphere give you the answer "geoengineering" ...or have an alternate explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064


Of course they are going to give an alternative explanation because no one has admitted to active geoengineering. . . . If anything scientists know which side of their bread is buttered on . . . they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them . . .huffy
 Quoting: George B


What gives you the authority to speak for all scientists? You do not speak for me. Don't make ups stories about what other people would or wouldn't do. You haven't got a clue.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2013 07:40 AM
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I think you can because it is highly probable. . . because Caldeira was doing climate computer modeling but was asked to apply for a security clearance but refuse to do so and was thus denied access to the inner circle of LLNL . . . so if his expertise was climate modeling it makes sense he was being denied classified climate information . . . goodnews

More interesting info on the connection between LLNL, Teller and Geoengineering and SECRECY. . . .ohno

"In 1990, a year short of his doctorate, Caldeira went to Leningrad to study with Russian climate scientist Mikhail Budyko, one of the first champions of geoengineering. In the 1970s, Budyko had suggested an early version of the basic Teller-Wood idea — decrease the global temperature by shooting sunlight-scattering particles into the stratosphere. While he was in Leningrad, Caldeira's philosophical outlook still predisposed him to distrust such interventions, but years later that would change.

In 1993, the former peace activist accepted a research post at that haven of bombmakers, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. Caldeira was running high-powered computer models to study the climate, but when he was offered a security clearance that would have allowed fuller access to the lab's resources, he tried to stay true to his old principles by declining. As a result, he didn't see much of Wood. "There's an outer fence at Livermore, and then there's an inner fence," Caldeira says. "Lowell worked inside the fence."


[link to www.wired.com]
 Quoting: George B

Further proof that LLNL was in advance of all climate studies and computer modeling . . .

"(LLNL) Researchers at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory are so far the only ones who have modelled the stratospheric albedo modification scheme . . .

ALBEDO ENHANCEMENT BY STRATOSPHERIC SULFUR INJECTIONS: A CONTRIBUTION TO RESOLVE A POLICY DILEMMA?
An Editorial Essay

(LLNL) Researchers at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory are so far the only ones who have modelled the stratospheric albedo modification scheme. In a first study, Govindasamy and Caldeirau (2000) simulated this by reducing the solar luminos- ity by 1.8%, to balance future climate warming by a doubling of CO2. Although solar radiative forcing has a different physics and spatial distribution than the in- frared effects caused by CO2, the model results indicated that the global temper- ature response by both perturbations at the Earth’ surface and atmosphere largely cancelled out. Although these preliminary model results would be in favor a strato- spheric sulfur injection operation, the required annual S inputs are large, so that the possibility of adverse environmental side effects needs to be fully researched before the countermeasure to greenhouse warming is attempted. What has to be done first, is to explore whether using a sulfur injection scheme with advanced micro-physical and radiation process descriptions will show similar model results as the simple solar luminosity adjustment scheme of Govindasamy and Caldeira (2000). Further studies, following those conducted by Govindasamy (2003), should address the biological effects of the albedo modification scheme. As already men- tioned, injection of soot may be an alternative, but in need of critical analysis. Such studies by themselves, even when the experiment is never done, will be very informative.

Page 5

[link to www.cogci.dk]
 Quoting: George B



Climate studies does not mean the contrails we see are chemtrails.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3616254


I have not said that ( Climate studies does not mean the contrails we see are chemtrails.)
 Quoting: George B

. . . . I have said Chemtrail Conspiracy Advocates have most likely misidentified persistent contrails and contrail induced cirrus cloud banks and the resulting haze as Chemtrails and you know it . . . huffy



If that is your goal you are going about it all wrong. The first thing you have to do is show that all this chemtrail garbage is just that, garbage without substantiation. Once you have eliminated the hysteria then you can talk about what you think is the real problem. By catering to the chemtrail crowd all you do is fed the fears and decrease the effectiveness of the argument. If people disagree with you about what they are then they will disagree with you on the solution.
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04/05/2013 07:42 AM
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That's absolute bullshit George.

And you know it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465


Go ahead Noble, if you are so sure . . . you ask one to comment on the data NOAA presented in 2011 about the increase in Sulfur aerosols in the stratosphere during the 2000s . . . Ask them if Geoeengineering efforts or CHEMTRAILS could have been a source . . . could they eliminate it as a possible source???huffy
 Quoting: George B


No, you ask them..

It's your fucking claim, now find someone to back it up!


And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

And not being able to eliminate a source, doesn't make it the source!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

Thanks for making my point . . . ohyeah
 Quoting: George B


Because it isn't science. Scientists get paid to do science, not feed the mass hysteria.
Anonymous Coward
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04/05/2013 07:49 AM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


No, you ask them..

It's your fucking claim, now find someone to back it up!


And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

And not being able to eliminate a source, doesn't make it the source!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064

And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

Thanks for making my point . . . ohyeah
 Quoting: George B


That wasn't your point...

Your point was that geoengineering couldn't be eliminated as a source.

Which, as you have pointed out, has nothing to do with persistence of the trail.

I'm referring to the fact that "chemtrails" isn't even a fucking word...so scientists ignore it...and the idiots who use it. They would, however, be well aware of unnatural (as well as natural) increases in aerosols in the atmosphere. That's what they do...study the atmosphere...not accept anecdotal bullshit it on conspiracy sites as fact.

I was also being sarcastic when I was calling you a "hero" for concentrating your pathetic efforts on a conspiracy site instead of asking an actual scientist what they know about increases in aerosols in the atmosphere.

Which, is the bottom line...

See how many who have actually studied the atmosphere give you the answer "geoengineering" ...or have an alternate explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064


Of course they are going to give an alternative explanation because no one has admitted to active geoengineering. . . . If anything scientists know which side of their bread is buttered on . . . they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them . . .huffy
 Quoting: George B


But, what is wrong with the alternate explanation, and how do you know the alternate explanation isn't the factual explanation?

George, YOU are the one doing the suspecting, based on a lack of scientific data and experience.


I see no reason to believe YOU over those whoa re actually educated to be actual scientists...in this field.

But, don't worry...the other chemtards love your suspicious nature, accusations and assumptions.
George B (OP)
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United States
04/05/2013 08:40 AM

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And no self respecting scientist is going to deal with some loser using the word "chemtrail". Because they know chemtards won't accept a word they say.

Thanks for making my point . . . ohyeah
 Quoting: George B


That wasn't your point...

Your point was that geoengineering couldn't be eliminated as a source.

Which, as you have pointed out, has nothing to do with persistence of the trail.

I'm referring to the fact that "chemtrails" isn't even a fucking word...so scientists ignore it...and the idiots who use it. They would, however, be well aware of unnatural (as well as natural) increases in aerosols in the atmosphere. That's what they do...study the atmosphere...not accept anecdotal bullshit it on conspiracy sites as fact.

I was also being sarcastic when I was calling you a "hero" for concentrating your pathetic efforts on a conspiracy site instead of asking an actual scientist what they know about increases in aerosols in the atmosphere.

Which, is the bottom line...

See how many who have actually studied the atmosphere give you the answer "geoengineering" ...or have an alternate explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064


Of course they are going to give an alternative explanation because no one has admitted to active geoengineering. . . . If anything scientists know which side of their bread is buttered on . . . they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them . . .huffy
 Quoting: George B


But, what is wrong with the alternate explanation, and how do you know the alternate explanation isn't the factual explanation?

George, YOU are the one doing the suspecting, based on a lack of scientific data and experience.


I see no reason to believe YOU over those whoa re actually educated to be actual scientists...in this field.

But, don't worry...the other chemtards love your suspicious nature, accusations and assumptions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465

Alternative explanations are fine. . . .they are speculations as well. . . . or there would not be more than one alternative. . . .
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
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04/05/2013 09:01 AM

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I am so relieved that the debate (or whatever) is between more intelligent seeming people. I was just thinking about information obscuration. Just putting the words together really. Information obscuration, it kind of has a ring to it.

What am I doing here? I like the new debate on your thread. I didn't like the insults, there are insults but it is fun again, your thread. YAY!

halbird2
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04/05/2013 10:18 AM
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...


That wasn't your point...

Your point was that geoengineering couldn't be eliminated as a source.

Which, as you have pointed out, has nothing to do with persistence of the trail.

I'm referring to the fact that "chemtrails" isn't even a fucking word...so scientists ignore it...and the idiots who use it. They would, however, be well aware of unnatural (as well as natural) increases in aerosols in the atmosphere. That's what they do...study the atmosphere...not accept anecdotal bullshit it on conspiracy sites as fact.

I was also being sarcastic when I was calling you a "hero" for concentrating your pathetic efforts on a conspiracy site instead of asking an actual scientist what they know about increases in aerosols in the atmosphere.

Which, is the bottom line...

See how many who have actually studied the atmosphere give you the answer "geoengineering" ...or have an alternate explanation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30170064


Of course they are going to give an alternative explanation because no one has admitted to active geoengineering. . . . If anything scientists know which side of their bread is buttered on . . . they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them . . .huffy
 Quoting: George B


But, what is wrong with the alternate explanation, and how do you know the alternate explanation isn't the factual explanation?

George, YOU are the one doing the suspecting, based on a lack of scientific data and experience.


I see no reason to believe YOU over those whoa re actually educated to be actual scientists...in this field.

But, don't worry...the other chemtards love your suspicious nature, accusations and assumptions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465

Alternative explanations are fine. . . .they are speculations as well. . . . or there would not be more than one alternative. . . .
 Quoting: George B


So, I guess it comes down to "world view" as to which "type" of explanation one will accept as truth. Chemtards, being the suspicious, paranoid, whiny losers they are will always choose the more disturbing explanation, while normal people will choose the more rational one...based on actual data/evidence...not some silly assumptions and ignorant speculation.

But, by all means, go ahead and assume and speculate all you want. It's very entertaining.

I have to wonder though...

They say that those who see the worst in others, spend even more time seeing the flaws in themselves...

I'm sorry about that George.

Don't worry, the other chemtards still love you.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1211465
United States
04/05/2013 10:21 AM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
I am so relieved that the debate (or whatever) is between more intelligent seeming people. I was just thinking about information obscuration. Just putting the words together really. Information obscuration, it kind of has a ring to it.

What am I doing here? I like the new debate on your thread. I didn't like the insults, there are insults but it is fun again, your thread. YAY!
 Quoting: WindyMind


You are in no position to recognize intelligence.

No one is obscuring information from anyone.

It's all out there...
George B (OP)
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User ID: 13873512
United States
04/05/2013 10:43 AM

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...


Of course they are going to give an alternative explanation because no one has admitted to active geoengineering. . . . If anything scientists know which side of their bread is buttered on . . . they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them . . .huffy
 Quoting: George B


But, what is wrong with the alternate explanation, and how do you know the alternate explanation isn't the factual explanation?

George, YOU are the one doing the suspecting, based on a lack of scientific data and experience.


I see no reason to believe YOU over those whoa re actually educated to be actual scientists...in this field.

But, don't worry...the other chemtards love your suspicious nature, accusations and assumptions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465

Alternative explanations are fine. . . .they are speculations as well. . . . or there would not be more than one alternative. . . .
 Quoting: George B


So, I guess it comes down to "world view" as to which "type" of explanation one will accept as truth. Chemtards, being the suspicious, paranoid, whiny losers they are will always choose the more disturbing explanation, while normal people will choose the more rational one...based on actual data/evidence...not some silly assumptions and ignorant speculation.

But, by all means, go ahead and assume and speculate all you want. It's very entertaining.

I have to wonder though...

They say that those who see the worst in others, spend even more time seeing the flaws in themselves...

I'm sorry about that George.

Don't worry, the other chemtards still love you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465


You need not be concerned for me Noble. . . .I like myself and others as well. . . .the world is beautiful in many ways and open and honest discussions shouldn't hurt anyone . . . aaa
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
George B (OP)
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User ID: 13873512
United States
04/05/2013 10:44 AM

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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
I am so relieved that the debate (or whatever) is between more intelligent seeming people. I was just thinking about information obscuration. Just putting the words together really. Information obscuration, it kind of has a ring to it.

What am I doing here? I like the new debate on your thread. I didn't like the insults, there are insults but it is fun again, your thread. YAY!
 Quoting: WindyMind


:144:
Martin Luther King . . . Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter!

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
Galileo Galilei, Italian astronomer & physicist (1564 - 1642)

coffee4

The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional, except for death and taxes . . . George B
WindyMind

User ID: 7244814
United States
04/05/2013 10:49 AM

Report Abusive Post
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
I am so relieved that the debate (or whatever) is between more intelligent seeming people. I was just thinking about information obscuration. Just putting the words together really. Information obscuration, it kind of has a ring to it.

What am I doing here? I like the new debate on your thread. I didn't like the insults, there are insults but it is fun again, your thread. YAY!
 Quoting: WindyMind


You are in no position to recognize intelligence.

No one is obscuring information from anyone.

It's all out there...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465


wow clearly you misunderstood but thanks for the laugh.

halbird2
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1211465
United States
04/05/2013 12:36 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
I am so relieved that the debate (or whatever) is between more intelligent seeming people. I was just thinking about information obscuration. Just putting the words together really. Information obscuration, it kind of has a ring to it.

What am I doing here? I like the new debate on your thread. I didn't like the insults, there are insults but it is fun again, your thread. YAY!
 Quoting: WindyMind


You are in no position to recognize intelligence.

No one is obscuring information from anyone.

It's all out there...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465


wow clearly you misunderstood but thanks for the laugh.
 Quoting: WindyMind


Right back atcha!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1211465
United States
04/05/2013 12:38 PM
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Re: If you believe chemtrails are real . . . what source of information has reinforced your belief most?
...


But, what is wrong with the alternate explanation, and how do you know the alternate explanation isn't the factual explanation?

George, YOU are the one doing the suspecting, based on a lack of scientific data and experience.


I see no reason to believe YOU over those whoa re actually educated to be actual scientists...in this field.

But, don't worry...the other chemtards love your suspicious nature, accusations and assumptions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465

Alternative explanations are fine. . . .they are speculations as well. . . . or there would not be more than one alternative. . . .
 Quoting: George B


So, I guess it comes down to "world view" as to which "type" of explanation one will accept as truth. Chemtards, being the suspicious, paranoid, whiny losers they are will always choose the more disturbing explanation, while normal people will choose the more rational one...based on actual data/evidence...not some silly assumptions and ignorant speculation.

But, by all means, go ahead and assume and speculate all you want. It's very entertaining.

I have to wonder though...

They say that those who see the worst in others, spend even more time seeing the flaws in themselves...

I'm sorry about that George.

Don't worry, the other chemtards still love you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1211465


You need not be concerned for me Noble. . . .I like myself and others as well. . . .the world is beautiful in many ways and open and honest discussions shouldn't hurt anyone . . . aaa
 Quoting: George B


Of course you like yourself...what's not to like about someone who could never admit a mistake or laps in reasoning! In your mind, you're always perfect!

And when I see you participate in an honest discussion....honestly, I'll let you know.
Chemtrail Documents
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Chemtrail Documents
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All About Chemtrails- Information for Chemtrail Skeptics
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Photos of Chemtrail-Generating-Equipment and More
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Chemtrails- Frightening Lesser-Known Facts
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plus 204 more documents - A government biowarfare jet spraying program to cause the genocide of the general public

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