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Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?

 
acegotflows

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02/22/2013 10:40 PM

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literally? in what language? IN WHAT LANGUAGE is there a LITERAL TRANSLATION?

NONE
 Quoting: acegotflows


It was written in Hebrew before translated into Greek and English. We have the Greek Septuagint from at least 300 BC and in 1946 found the dead sea scrolls which verified the original hebrew text.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


DO YOU speak Hebrew? are YOU versed in it? CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT in a way it makes sense across language barriers?
 Quoting: acegotflows


William Tyndale did.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675

I doubt he would recognize the religion of today.We just don't get told the truth about anything. And those who might know are not going to expose it if they are profiting off it ...
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 10:41 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
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yes and magi were magicians and such
it is all allegorical as well as a tool of control. You are not taught how to use it in a proper sense

1- literal
2- historical
3- allegorical
4-astrological

it can be read cover to cover all 4 ways if done properly and you will have an explanation in ALL of them that follows a timeline.

this is why "the devil" knows the word just as well as God does. There is a reason that they say don't consult the stars but pray to the star of Bethlehem. There is a reason that they tell you Jesus is LIVING- to get around the necromancy of the idea of it. It is all a mind warp if you can't take it all in with open eyes and many resources and tools of interpretation.

contemporary meanings are NO GOOD
 Quoting: acegotflows


BELIEF: Three wise men (or kings in some traditions) visited Jesus at the time of his birth.
STATUS: MYTH.
Perhaps you have seen paintings or nativity scenes that depict the infant Jesus lying in a manger, surrounded by three wise men bearing gifts. This image, however, is fiction, not fact.
It is true that a delegation from the East paid homage to young Jesus. These visitors, though, were really astrologers. (Matthew 2:1, The New English Bible; The Bible—An American Translation) And did they find Jesus nestled in a manger? No; they visited him in a house. Evidently, they arrived some months after Jesus’ birth.—Matthew 2:9-11.
As to the number of visitors, were there 2? 3? 30? The Bible does not say. Perhaps the traditional number of three arose from their three types of gifts. (Matthew 2:11) Some have even proposed that each of the so-called wise men represented a different race of mankind. But that idea is not found in the Scriptures. Rather, as one Gospel commentary notes, this particular myth is the product of “an eighth-century historian with a vivid imagination.”


Scriptures from above^:
(Matthew 2:1) After Jesus had been born in Beth′le·hem of Ju·de′a in the days of Herod the king, look! astrologers from eastern parts came to Jerusalem,

(Matthew 2:9-11) When they had heard the king, they went their way; and, look! the star they had seen [when they were] in the east went ahead of them, until it came to a stop above where the young child was. 10 On seeing the star they rejoiced very much indeed. 11 And when they went into the house they saw the young child with Mary its mother, and, falling down, they did obeisance to it. They also opened their treasures and presented it with gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

(Matthew 2:11) And when they went into the house they saw the young child with Mary its mother, and, falling down, they did obeisance to it. They also opened their treasures and presented it with gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
 Quoting: chauchat


Thanks for making my point. Those versions you quoted are not accurate. If you can only read English (like me), then the King James version is the standard. It does not have 'astrologers' in that verse for a reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


Yeah it's missing ENOCH.. Genesis, Enoch, exodus, Leviticus, numbers... Deuteronomy judges Ruth... I could go on and on.. Where is the astrological ENOCH? Whoops was taken out! Don't wake up the sheep!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34961101


If Enoch was written with the others, it would have been included. Its not even in the same language.
acegotflows

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02/22/2013 10:43 PM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
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BELIEF: Three wise men (or kings in some traditions) visited Jesus at the time of his birth.
STATUS: MYTH.
Perhaps you have seen paintings or nativity scenes that depict the infant Jesus lying in a manger, surrounded by three wise men bearing gifts. This image, however, is fiction, not fact.
It is true that a delegation from the East paid homage to young Jesus. These visitors, though, were really astrologers. (Matthew 2:1, The New English Bible; The Bible—An American Translation) And did they find Jesus nestled in a manger? No; they visited him in a house. Evidently, they arrived some months after Jesus’ birth.—Matthew 2:9-11.
As to the number of visitors, were there 2? 3? 30? The Bible does not say. Perhaps the traditional number of three arose from their three types of gifts. (Matthew 2:11) Some have even proposed that each of the so-called wise men represented a different race of mankind. But that idea is not found in the Scriptures. Rather, as one Gospel commentary notes, this particular myth is the product of “an eighth-century historian with a vivid imagination.”


Scriptures from above^:
(Matthew 2:1) After Jesus had been born in Beth′le·hem of Ju·de′a in the days of Herod the king, look! astrologers from eastern parts came to Jerusalem,

(Matthew 2:9-11) When they had heard the king, they went their way; and, look! the star they had seen [when they were] in the east went ahead of them, until it came to a stop above where the young child was. 10 On seeing the star they rejoiced very much indeed. 11 And when they went into the house they saw the young child with Mary its mother, and, falling down, they did obeisance to it. They also opened their treasures and presented it with gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

(Matthew 2:11) And when they went into the house they saw the young child with Mary its mother, and, falling down, they did obeisance to it. They also opened their treasures and presented it with gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
 Quoting: chauchat


Thanks for making my point. Those versions you quoted are not accurate. If you can only read English (like me), then the King James version is the standard. It does not have 'astrologers' in that verse for a reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


Yeah it's missing ENOCH.. Genesis, Enoch, exodus, Leviticus, numbers... Deuteronomy judges Ruth... I could go on and on.. Where is the astrological ENOCH? Whoops was taken out! Don't wake up the sheep!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34961101


If Enoch was written with the others, it would have been included. Its not even in the same language.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


the removal of Enoch even though the name is mentioned in the Bible in other places totally removes the credibility of the BIBLE being a whole text. It just does. It's not even a question of it. They don't even have names of the ANGELS in there because they agreed to take them out. Some of them were very influential in the book of Enoch. Makes you wonder WHY they don't want you to know... you should THINK about that one ...
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 10:43 PM
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It was written in Hebrew before translated into Greek and English. We have the Greek Septuagint from at least 300 BC and in 1946 found the dead sea scrolls which verified the original hebrew text.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


DO YOU speak Hebrew? are YOU versed in it? CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT in a way it makes sense across language barriers?
 Quoting: acegotflows


William Tyndale did.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675

I doubt he would recognize the religion of today.We just don't get told the truth about anything. And those who might know are not going to expose it if they are profiting off it ...
 Quoting: acegotflows


Well we agree on that. Cheers.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 10:46 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
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Thanks for making my point. Those versions you quoted are not accurate. If you can only read English (like me), then the King James version is the standard. It does not have 'astrologers' in that verse for a reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


Yeah it's missing ENOCH.. Genesis, Enoch, exodus, Leviticus, numbers... Deuteronomy judges Ruth... I could go on and on.. Where is the astrological ENOCH? Whoops was taken out! Don't wake up the sheep!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34961101


If Enoch was written with the others, it would have been included. Its not even in the same language.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


the removal of Enoch even though the name is mentioned in the Bible in other places totally removes the credibility of the BIBLE being a whole text. It just does. It's not even a question of it. They don't even have names of the ANGELS in there because they agreed to take them out. Some of them were very influential in the book of Enoch. Makes you wonder WHY they don't want you to know... you should THINK about that one ...
 Quoting: acegotflows


If we had to match all names mentioned, we would have to include the Gospel of Philip, Judas, and many books about Jewish priests mentioned in the Bible.
acegotflows

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02/22/2013 10:50 PM

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Yeah it's missing ENOCH.. Genesis, Enoch, exodus, Leviticus, numbers... Deuteronomy judges Ruth... I could go on and on.. Where is the astrological ENOCH? Whoops was taken out! Don't wake up the sheep!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34961101


If Enoch was written with the others, it would have been included. Its not even in the same language.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


the removal of Enoch even though the name is mentioned in the Bible in other places totally removes the credibility of the BIBLE being a whole text. It just does. It's not even a question of it. They don't even have names of the ANGELS in there because they agreed to take them out. Some of them were very influential in the book of Enoch. Makes you wonder WHY they don't want you to know... you should THINK about that one ...
 Quoting: acegotflows


If we had to match all names mentioned, we would have to include the Gospel of Philip, Judas, and many books about Jewish priests mentioned in the Bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


ok- but that has nothing to do with the time of the Book of Enoch. Enoch was written (if you follow the history) at a time where it would have a been a pivotal book in UNDERSTANDING how to read the Bible and what certain angels and names meant. The fact that it was removed, names removed and it was AGREED UPON by agenda should be a BIG RED FLAG. What did they NOT want people to know?
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 10:55 PM
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If Enoch was written with the others, it would have been included. Its not even in the same language.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


the removal of Enoch even though the name is mentioned in the Bible in other places totally removes the credibility of the BIBLE being a whole text. It just does. It's not even a question of it. They don't even have names of the ANGELS in there because they agreed to take them out. Some of them were very influential in the book of Enoch. Makes you wonder WHY they don't want you to know... you should THINK about that one ...
 Quoting: acegotflows


If we had to match all names mentioned, we would have to include the Gospel of Philip, Judas, and many books about Jewish priests mentioned in the Bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


ok- but that has nothing to do with the time of the Book of Enoch. Enoch was written (if you follow the history) at a time where it would have a been a pivotal book in UNDERSTANDING how to read the Bible and what certain angels and names meant. The fact that it was removed, names removed and it was AGREED UPON by agenda should be a BIG RED FLAG. What did they NOT want people to know?
 Quoting: acegotflows


It depends on who it was written by. Im not claiming it to be a fake, or not divine, just that it wasnt written with the rest of the Bible. Also it was originally from a different language. Hence the separation.
What are those extremely important concepts that we need to know, that we cant get from the Bible already?
acegotflows

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02/22/2013 11:04 PM

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the removal of Enoch even though the name is mentioned in the Bible in other places totally removes the credibility of the BIBLE being a whole text. It just does. It's not even a question of it. They don't even have names of the ANGELS in there because they agreed to take them out. Some of them were very influential in the book of Enoch. Makes you wonder WHY they don't want you to know... you should THINK about that one ...
 Quoting: acegotflows


If we had to match all names mentioned, we would have to include the Gospel of Philip, Judas, and many books about Jewish priests mentioned in the Bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


ok- but that has nothing to do with the time of the Book of Enoch. Enoch was written (if you follow the history) at a time where it would have a been a pivotal book in UNDERSTANDING how to read the Bible and what certain angels and names meant. The fact that it was removed, names removed and it was AGREED UPON by agenda should be a BIG RED FLAG. What did they NOT want people to know?
 Quoting: acegotflows


It depends on who it was written by. Im not claiming it to be a fake, or not divine, just that it wasnt written with the rest of the Bible. Also it was originally from a different language. Hence the separation.
What are those extremely important concepts that we need to know, that we cant get from the Bible already?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


think of it like this. The fact it was in a different language and it is being DISCOUNTED should be a red flag. Nobody speaks a language old enough, so why knock THAT particular book? There is a REASON that the book about the WATCHERS and a trip to the heavens and such is taken out of the common cannon... THINK ABOUT IT. EVEN if the only excuse is the language, why are certain names taken out of the regular Bible that are in that text as well? Why? Surely names are not the issue right?
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 11:05 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?

 Quoting: geminilion


People/ groups throughout history have wanted to kill Jesus or the idea of Him. Not all spirits are the same. The "good" spirits the Native American's recognized are not the Holy Spirit the Bible recognizes. Though, I suppose, both the Bible and the NAs profess to evil spirits.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16728269

Old Testament shows a Demonic Spirit is the writer of the bible.
acegotflows

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02/22/2013 11:07 PM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?

 Quoting: geminilion


People/ groups throughout history have wanted to kill Jesus or the idea of Him. Not all spirits are the same. The "good" spirits the Native American's recognized are not the Holy Spirit the Bible recognizes. Though, I suppose, both the Bible and the NAs profess to evil spirits.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16728269

Old Testament shows a Demonic Spirit is the writer of the bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


now this intrigues me. Please share on that one ...
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 11:14 PM
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If we had to match all names mentioned, we would have to include the Gospel of Philip, Judas, and many books about Jewish priests mentioned in the Bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


ok- but that has nothing to do with the time of the Book of Enoch. Enoch was written (if you follow the history) at a time where it would have a been a pivotal book in UNDERSTANDING how to read the Bible and what certain angels and names meant. The fact that it was removed, names removed and it was AGREED UPON by agenda should be a BIG RED FLAG. What did they NOT want people to know?
 Quoting: acegotflows


It depends on who it was written by. Im not claiming it to be a fake, or not divine, just that it wasnt written with the rest of the Bible. Also it was originally from a different language. Hence the separation.
What are those extremely important concepts that we need to know, that we cant get from the Bible already?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


think of it like this. The fact it was in a different language and it is being DISCOUNTED should be a red flag. Nobody speaks a language old enough, so why knock THAT particular book? There is a REASON that the book about the WATCHERS and a trip to the heavens and such is taken out of the common cannon... THINK ABOUT IT. EVEN if the only excuse is the language, why are certain names taken out of the regular Bible that are in that text as well? Why? Surely names are not the issue right?
 Quoting: acegotflows


What do you mean by 'discounted'? Discounted as false, or just excluded from the Bible? The different language (Ge'ez) alone implies a different location, let alone the authorship. If the only significance you gain from it is a few angels (and some demons) names, then it doesnt seem that pivotal. Your view on 'pivotal' may be different from others.
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 11:16 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
*the different language implies different authorship
acegotflows

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02/22/2013 11:32 PM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
*the different language implies different authorship
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


sure, but then you have to take that into account with all the conflicting stories of Jesus life in the New Testament. They all told a different story but it was included. So what about that? How is that inconsistency left in and encouraged?

why? the language was the same? Stories are different and don't gel but the LANGUAGE is ok, so it's added?

NAMES are very important. Just like the names of God are for function and are NOT all the same God.

You gotta start thinking about the why's and not the fact that some things stayed and others were removed. If you want to explain it away by saying that the language does not work, well then you have to ask other questions

why do they tell the story of the creation of man 2 times but the story does not follow the same structure?

why does the gods of Genesis 1 go from singular to plural?

why does the God from Genesis 1 then turn to LORD God in Genesis 2 and act in a different fashion?

this is in the first few chapters of the Bible and people still can't agree on a simple explanation of them. This is NOT EVEN OUT OF THE FIRST FEW CHAPTERS OF THE FIRST BOOK.

so you can understand why I have questions can you not?
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2013 01:00 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
*the different language implies different authorship
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


sure, but then you have to take that into account with all the conflicting stories of Jesus life in the New Testament. They all told a different story but it was included. So what about that? How is that inconsistency left in and encouraged?

why? the language was the same? Stories are different and don't gel but the LANGUAGE is ok, so it's added?

NAMES are very important. Just like the names of God are for function and are NOT all the same God.

You gotta start thinking about the why's and not the fact that some things stayed and others were removed. If you want to explain it away by saying that the language does not work, well then you have to ask other questions

why do they tell the story of the creation of man 2 times but the story does not follow the same structure?

why does the gods of Genesis 1 go from singular to plural?

why does the God from Genesis 1 then turn to LORD God in Genesis 2 and act in a different fashion?

this is in the first few chapters of the Bible and people still can't agree on a simple explanation of them. This is NOT EVEN OUT OF THE FIRST FEW CHAPTERS OF THE FIRST BOOK.

so you can understand why I have questions can you not?
 Quoting: acegotflows


What conflicting stories in the New Testament, can you please be specific? The Bible verifies itself. Jesus and his disciples quoted the Old Testament, but never Enoch. Also Revelation speaks of an army of ten thousands or 144,000 holy ones, not millions like in Enoch. There are many more inconsistencies, and many demons names. Forget about it being a divine book.
acegotflows

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02/23/2013 01:07 AM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
*the different language implies different authorship
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


sure, but then you have to take that into account with all the conflicting stories of Jesus life in the New Testament. They all told a different story but it was included. So what about that? How is that inconsistency left in and encouraged?

why? the language was the same? Stories are different and don't gel but the LANGUAGE is ok, so it's added?

NAMES are very important. Just like the names of God are for function and are NOT all the same God.

You gotta start thinking about the why's and not the fact that some things stayed and others were removed. If you want to explain it away by saying that the language does not work, well then you have to ask other questions

why do they tell the story of the creation of man 2 times but the story does not follow the same structure?

why does the gods of Genesis 1 go from singular to plural?

why does the God from Genesis 1 then turn to LORD God in Genesis 2 and act in a different fashion?

this is in the first few chapters of the Bible and people still can't agree on a simple explanation of them. This is NOT EVEN OUT OF THE FIRST FEW CHAPTERS OF THE FIRST BOOK.

so you can understand why I have questions can you not?
 Quoting: acegotflows


What conflicting stories in the New Testament, can you please be specific? The Bible verifies itself. Jesus and his disciples quoted the Old Testament, but never Enoch. Also Revelation speaks of an army of ten thousands or 144,000 holy ones, not millions like in Enoch. There are many more inconsistencies, and many demons names. Forget about it being a divine book.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


have you ever paid attention to the different accounts of Jesus' life? They are not consistent. If don't know that, then you need to brush up on your Bible stuff. I'm not making it up, it's there. Happy hunting...
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2013 01:19 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
Christians are being metaphorically crucified right here!!! Lol
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2013 02:00 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
*the different language implies different authorship
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


sure, but then you have to take that into account with all the conflicting stories of Jesus life in the New Testament. They all told a different story but it was included. So what about that? How is that inconsistency left in and encouraged?

why? the language was the same? Stories are different and don't gel but the LANGUAGE is ok, so it's added?

NAMES are very important. Just like the names of God are for function and are NOT all the same God.

You gotta start thinking about the why's and not the fact that some things stayed and others were removed. If you want to explain it away by saying that the language does not work, well then you have to ask other questions

why do they tell the story of the creation of man 2 times but the story does not follow the same structure?

why does the gods of Genesis 1 go from singular to plural?

why does the God from Genesis 1 then turn to LORD God in Genesis 2 and act in a different fashion?

this is in the first few chapters of the Bible and people still can't agree on a simple explanation of them. This is NOT EVEN OUT OF THE FIRST FEW CHAPTERS OF THE FIRST BOOK.

so you can understand why I have questions can you not?
 Quoting: acegotflows


What conflicting stories in the New Testament, can you please be specific? The Bible verifies itself. Jesus and his disciples quoted the Old Testament, but never Enoch. Also Revelation speaks of an army of ten thousands or 144,000 holy ones, not millions like in Enoch. There are many more inconsistencies, and many demons names. Forget about it being a divine book.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


have you ever paid attention to the different accounts of Jesus' life? They are not consistent. If don't know that, then you need to brush up on your Bible stuff. I'm not making it up, it's there. Happy hunting...
 Quoting: acegotflows




Your so-called "inconsistencies" in Jesus' life were different accounts only in that, if you tell about a certain event, someone else who was there will tell about the same event, but fill in different details than you...they may remember things that happen that you forgot to mention, or may know some details that you didn't know or forgot about, or have a slightly different way of telling.
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
Christians are being metaphorically crucified right here!!! Lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989756




Some unbelievers just relish any opportunity to harden their hearts. Just like Pharaoh of Egypt and countless other characters on the stage of time---they harden their heart, and harden it some more, then some more, and finally God hardens their heart. There will be a point of no return, so you need to be very careful.
acegotflows

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02/23/2013 02:16 AM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
...


sure, but then you have to take that into account with all the conflicting stories of Jesus life in the New Testament. They all told a different story but it was included. So what about that? How is that inconsistency left in and encouraged?

why? the language was the same? Stories are different and don't gel but the LANGUAGE is ok, so it's added?

NAMES are very important. Just like the names of God are for function and are NOT all the same God.

You gotta start thinking about the why's and not the fact that some things stayed and others were removed. If you want to explain it away by saying that the language does not work, well then you have to ask other questions

why do they tell the story of the creation of man 2 times but the story does not follow the same structure?

why does the gods of Genesis 1 go from singular to plural?

why does the God from Genesis 1 then turn to LORD God in Genesis 2 and act in a different fashion?

this is in the first few chapters of the Bible and people still can't agree on a simple explanation of them. This is NOT EVEN OUT OF THE FIRST FEW CHAPTERS OF THE FIRST BOOK.

so you can understand why I have questions can you not?
 Quoting: acegotflows


What conflicting stories in the New Testament, can you please be specific? The Bible verifies itself. Jesus and his disciples quoted the Old Testament, but never Enoch. Also Revelation speaks of an army of ten thousands or 144,000 holy ones, not millions like in Enoch. There are many more inconsistencies, and many demons names. Forget about it being a divine book.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


have you ever paid attention to the different accounts of Jesus' life? They are not consistent. If don't know that, then you need to brush up on your Bible stuff. I'm not making it up, it's there. Happy hunting...
 Quoting: acegotflows




Your so-called "inconsistencies" in Jesus' life were different accounts only in that, if you tell about a certain event, someone else who was there will tell about the same event, but fill in different details than you...they may remember things that happen that you forgot to mention, or may know some details that you didn't know or forgot about, or have a slightly different way of telling.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


so take that concept and go back to Enoch, the book and the fact that THAT account was taken out even though it mentioned things that others had experienced in other books that do not discount them. So why is THAT PARTICULAR book taken out? just for linguistic issues? WHY IS IT TAKEN OUT?

can you honestly answer that?
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
acegotflows

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02/23/2013 02:18 AM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
Christians are being metaphorically crucified right here!!! Lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989756




Some unbelievers just relish any opportunity to harden their hearts. Just like Pharaoh of Egypt and countless other characters on the stage of time---they harden their heart, and harden it some more, then some more, and finally God hardens their heart. There will be a point of no return, so you need to be very careful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


you have to have an open heart to challenge things that you might believe to learn more. If you know it all, there is no teaching you. If you know nothing you at least have a chance to learn more

It's not about knowing. It's about knowing that you don't know and learning how to deal with that.

at some point you get to things you cannot explain or explain away.

then you find out just how much you dropped the ball. If you are lucky you won't be dead when you get there
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2013 03:34 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
...

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matt. 15:8-9)

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law (Rom. 2:12)

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23)

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15-16)


...

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked (Jer. 17:9)

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Prov. 14;12)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5693785

English is a dialect and not a language. Just by quoting something that is supposed to be of God but is already in a dialect that can't even give you proper translations because WE DO NOT DEFINE EVERY WORD BY ETYMOLOGY but by accepted meaning, we are already butchering any semblance of truth in that Book.

This is how language works. Care to argue that one with a Bible verse?
 Quoting: acegotflows

God is not confounded by language barriers, or anything else whatsoever.

If God did not preserve God's perfect word for his creation in it's entirety, then there is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. (Prov. 14:1)

Every word of God is pure (Prov. 30:5)

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Pet. 1:21)

I the LORD do all these things. (Isa. 45:7)

Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Prov. 30:6)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5693785


god is not confused at all. but his moron followers sure are...
 Quoting: acegotflows
^
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit (1 John 4:3)

there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (John 8:44)
Anonymous Coward
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02/23/2013 03:36 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
popcorn

major flaw in the christian myth
 Quoting: Oyster


That avatar is badass....
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/23/2013 10:38 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
Christians are being metaphorically crucified right here!!! Lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989756




Some unbelievers just relish any opportunity to harden their hearts. Just like Pharaoh of Egypt and countless other characters on the stage of time---they harden their heart, and harden it some more, then some more, and finally God hardens their heart. There will be a point of no return, so you need to be very careful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


That right there is one of the biggest problems I'm having with all this .. Every time I hear someone say bad things happen in school cause God isn't allowed there anymore, or that ppl have no morals because they don't have God... That just pushes me farther away.

My daughter , my oldest who is 16, (we got married at 16.. Still together!) .. Has always been given the option to believe what she wants, we took her to church, we sent her to bible school, and she made up her own mind that she doesn't want to be a Christian.. She believes something is greater than we are but just not in the traditional way. But! Above all else, she is gentle, and kind, and full of empathy... All this without a Christian God.

And as for me, I am a minority in this state in that I will fight tooth and nail for the underdog, I will always stand against bigotry and racism .. Wen though I'm the only person I know that doesn't run around telling people to have faith. I don't need faith to love, or care. My husband calls me The Defender, because I am consumed with empathy for other people's feelings. And as for morals, I have morals because I know love. I don't believe in divorce because I believe in keeping my family together, and I didn't need the bible to tell me that. I don't steal because taking something that I didn't earn is wrong and I didn't need the bible to tell me that.

I don't kill
I take care of myself
I love my parents
I love my husband, and I believe in making sure he's happy and rewarding him for working hard.
And I didn't need the bible to tell me to do that.

And my life is full of less hate because I don't smack my brother down with the bible ban hammer.

However! I will always respect those that do follow Jesus, and the bible... I do not think its ok to belittle people for having religion.

peace
acegotflows

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02/23/2013 11:40 AM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
Christians are being metaphorically crucified right here!!! Lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989756




Some unbelievers just relish any opportunity to harden their hearts. Just like Pharaoh of Egypt and countless other characters on the stage of time---they harden their heart, and harden it some more, then some more, and finally God hardens their heart. There will be a point of no return, so you need to be very careful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


That right there is one of the biggest problems I'm having with all this .. Every time I hear someone say bad things happen in school cause God isn't allowed there anymore, or that ppl have no morals because they don't have God... That just pushes me farther away.

My daughter , my oldest who is 16, (we got married at 16.. Still together!) .. Has always been given the option to believe what she wants, we took her to church, we sent her to bible school, and she made up her own mind that she doesn't want to be a Christian.. She believes something is greater than we are but just not in the traditional way. But! Above all else, she is gentle, and kind, and full of empathy... All this without a Christian God.

And as for me, I am a minority in this state in that I will fight tooth and nail for the underdog, I will always stand against bigotry and racism .. Wen though I'm the only person I know that doesn't run around telling people to have faith. I don't need faith to love, or care. My husband calls me The Defender, because I am consumed with empathy for other people's feelings. And as for morals, I have morals because I know love. I don't believe in divorce because I believe in keeping my family together, and I didn't need the bible to tell me that. I don't steal because taking something that I didn't earn is wrong and I didn't need the bible to tell me that.

I don't kill
I take care of myself
I love my parents
I love my husband, and I believe in making sure he's happy and rewarding him for working hard.
And I didn't need the bible to tell me to do that.

And my life is full of less hate because I don't smack my brother down with the bible ban hammer.

However! I will always respect those that do follow Jesus, and the bible... I do not think its ok to belittle people for having religion.

peace
 Quoting: MrsCrickets


clappa
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Indian Elder
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02/23/2013 12:39 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
Yes Kateri Tekakwitha, was just made a saint by the pope.
She was native girl converted to the faith by the Jesuits I believe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34924841


Kateri Tekakwitha was not converted by the Jesuits. Her loving mother was a Huron captive who was Catholic, in the 1600s. She married a mohawk cheif and had Kateri and a little boy. She taught her daughter about the faith and when she, her husband and the baby all died of smallpox, Kateri brought that faith with her to her uncles lodge. Later when the "Blackrobes" came and taught the faith, she asked permission to go listen, which she did.Still later, she asked to be baptized. The uncle and aunt tried to marry her off inspite of her pockmarked face, but she refused. Eventually she left and went up north to a catholic community. she took a vow of chastity and lived as a nun, and was a nurse/helper to her people. When she died, the scent of lilies pervaded the settlement and all the pockmarks left her face. She is called Lily of the Mohawks
ANHEDONIC

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02/23/2013 12:51 PM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
That right there is one of the biggest problems I'm having with all this .. Every time I hear someone say bad things happen in school cause God isn't allowed there anymore, or that ppl have no morals because they don't have God... That just pushes me farther away.

My daughter , my oldest who is 16, (we got married at 16.. Still together!) .. Has always been given the option to believe what she wants, we took her to church, we sent her to bible school, and she made up her own mind that she doesn't want to be a Christian.. She believes something is greater than we are but just not in the traditional way. But! Above all else, she is gentle, and kind, and full of empathy... All this without a Christian God.

And as for me, I am a minority in this state in that I will fight tooth and nail for the underdog, I will always stand against bigotry and racism .. Wen though I'm the only person I know that doesn't run around telling people to have faith. I don't need faith to love, or care. My husband calls me The Defender, because I am consumed with empathy for other people's feelings. And as for morals, I have morals because I know love. I don't believe in divorce because I believe in keeping my family together, and I didn't need the bible to tell me that. I don't steal because taking something that I didn't earn is wrong and I didn't need the bible to tell me that.

I don't kill
I take care of myself
I love my parents
I love my husband, and I believe in making sure he's happy and rewarding him for working hard.
And I didn't need the bible to tell me to do that.

And my life is full of less hate because I don't smack my brother down with the bible ban hammer.

However! I will always respect those that do follow Jesus, and the bible... I do not think its ok to belittle people for having religion.

peace
 Quoting: MrsCrickets


The Defender

I like the sound of that.

greenkarma

wolfeye

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5693785
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02/23/2013 12:56 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
Christians are being metaphorically crucified right here!!! Lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989756




Some unbelievers just relish any opportunity to harden their hearts. Just like Pharaoh of Egypt and countless other characters on the stage of time---they harden their heart, and harden it some more, then some more, and finally God hardens their heart. There will be a point of no return, so you need to be very careful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


That right there is one of the biggest problems I'm having with all this .. Every time I hear someone say bad things happen in school cause God isn't allowed there anymore, or that ppl have no morals because they don't have God... That just pushes me farther away.

My daughter , my oldest who is 16, (we got married at 16.. Still together!) .. Has always been given the option to believe what she wants, we took her to church, we sent her to bible school, and she made up her own mind that she doesn't want to be a Christian.. She believes something is greater than we are but just not in the traditional way. But! Above all else, she is gentle, and kind, and full of empathy... All this without a Christian God.

And as for me, I am a minority in this state in that I will fight tooth and nail for the underdog, I will always stand against bigotry and racism .. Wen though I'm the only person I know that doesn't run around telling people to have faith. I don't need faith to love, or care. My husband calls me The Defender, because I am consumed with empathy for other people's feelings. And as for morals, I have morals because I know love. I don't believe in divorce because I believe in keeping my family together, and I didn't need the bible to tell me that. I don't steal because taking something that I didn't earn is wrong and I didn't need the bible to tell me that.

I don't kill
I take care of myself
I love my parents
I love my husband, and I believe in making sure he's happy and rewarding him for working hard.
And I didn't need the bible to tell me to do that.

And my life is full of less hate because I don't smack my brother down with the bible ban hammer.

However! I will always respect those that do follow Jesus, and the bible... I do not think its ok to belittle people for having religion.

peace
 Quoting: MrsCrickets

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Prov. 14:12)

for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? (Isa. 29:16)


you believe you are God and preach your vain imaginations for doctrine, but you're not God

for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen. 3:19

you were created by and will be judged by your Creator, God, Jesus Christ, the living Word (John 1:1, 14, 12:48, Isa. 45:12)

though you regard your own wisdom and righteousness as divine, God does not

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags (Isa. 64:6)

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23)

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 33529624
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02/23/2013 01:42 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
Christians are being metaphorically crucified right here!!! Lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989756




Some unbelievers just relish any opportunity to harden their hearts. Just like Pharaoh of Egypt and countless other characters on the stage of time---they harden their heart, and harden it some more, then some more, and finally God hardens their heart. There will be a point of no return, so you need to be very careful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


That right there is one of the biggest problems I'm having with all this .. Every time I hear someone say bad things happen in school cause God isn't allowed there anymore, or that ppl have no morals because they don't have God... That just pushes me farther away.

My daughter , my oldest who is 16, (we got married at 16.. Still together!) .. Has always been given the option to believe what she wants, we took her to church, we sent her to bible school, and she made up her own mind that she doesn't want to be a Christian.. She believes something is greater than we are but just not in the traditional way. But! Above all else, she is gentle, and kind, and full of empathy... All this without a Christian God.

And as for me, I am a minority in this state in that I will fight tooth and nail for the underdog, I will always stand against bigotry and racism .. Wen though I'm the only person I know that doesn't run around telling people to have faith. I don't need faith to love, or care. My husband calls me The Defender, because I am consumed with empathy for other people's feelings. And as for morals, I have morals because I know love. I don't believe in divorce because I believe in keeping my family together, and I didn't need the bible to tell me that. I don't steal because taking something that I didn't earn is wrong and I didn't need the bible to tell me that.

I don't kill
I take care of myself
I love my parents
I love my husband, and I believe in making sure he's happy and rewarding him for working hard.
And I didn't need the bible to tell me to do that.

And my life is full of less hate because I don't smack my brother down with the bible ban hammer.

However! I will always respect those that do follow Jesus, and the bible... I do not think its ok to belittle people for having religion.

peace
 Quoting: MrsCrickets

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Prov. 14:12)

for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? (Isa. 29:16)


you believe you are God and preach your vain imaginations for doctrine, but you're not God

for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen. 3:19

you were created by and will be judged by your Creator, God, Jesus Christ, the living Word (John 1:1, 14, 12:48, Isa. 45:12)

though you regard your own wisdom and righteousness as divine, God does not

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags (Isa. 64:6)

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23)

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5693785


If I'm to be damned to Hell for loving human life, and being a fair person.. Well I guess I'll be in good company at least
Desert FoxModerator
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02/23/2013 01:52 PM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
I don't know if they had access to the Bible but more importantly did they access to the:
Vedas
Bhagavad Gita
The Noble Koran
 Quoting: Aleph Tav


I do, I heat my Tepee with them.
TOMABANEFOX
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02/23/2013 06:01 PM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
If I'm to be damned to Hell for loving human life, and being a fair person..
Well I guess I'll be in good company at least
 Quoting: MrsCrickets

Brilliant rationalization there MrsCrickets... just brilliant.
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