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Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5693785
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02/23/2013 07:11 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
...




Some unbelievers just relish any opportunity to harden their hearts. Just like Pharaoh of Egypt and countless other characters on the stage of time---they harden their heart, and harden it some more, then some more, and finally God hardens their heart. There will be a point of no return, so you need to be very careful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


That right there is one of the biggest problems I'm having with all this .. Every time I hear someone say bad things happen in school cause God isn't allowed there anymore, or that ppl have no morals because they don't have God... That just pushes me farther away.

My daughter , my oldest who is 16, (we got married at 16.. Still together!) .. Has always been given the option to believe what she wants, we took her to church, we sent her to bible school, and she made up her own mind that she doesn't want to be a Christian.. She believes something is greater than we are but just not in the traditional way. But! Above all else, she is gentle, and kind, and full of empathy... All this without a Christian God.

And as for me, I am a minority in this state in that I will fight tooth and nail for the underdog, I will always stand against bigotry and racism .. Wen though I'm the only person I know that doesn't run around telling people to have faith. I don't need faith to love, or care. My husband calls me The Defender, because I am consumed with empathy for other people's feelings. And as for morals, I have morals because I know love. I don't believe in divorce because I believe in keeping my family together, and I didn't need the bible to tell me that. I don't steal because taking something that I didn't earn is wrong and I didn't need the bible to tell me that.

I don't kill
I take care of myself
I love my parents
I love my husband, and I believe in making sure he's happy and rewarding him for working hard.
And I didn't need the bible to tell me to do that.

And my life is full of less hate because I don't smack my brother down with the bible ban hammer.

However! I will always respect those that do follow Jesus, and the bible... I do not think its ok to belittle people for having religion.

peace
 Quoting: MrsCrickets

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Prov. 14:12)

for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding? (Isa. 29:16)


you believe you are God and preach your vain imaginations for doctrine, but you're not God

for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen. 3:19

you were created by and will be judged by your Creator, God, Jesus Christ, the living Word (John 1:1, 14, 12:48, Isa. 45:12)

though you regard your own wisdom and righteousness as divine, God does not

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags (Isa. 64:6)

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23)

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:7)

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5693785


If I'm to be damned to Hell for loving human life, and being a fair person.. Well I guess I'll be in good company at least
 Quoting: MrsCrickets

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat (Matt. 7:13)

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? (1 John 5:5)

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:10-12)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9142675
United States
02/24/2013 02:38 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
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What conflicting stories in the New Testament, can you please be specific? The Bible verifies itself. Jesus and his disciples quoted the Old Testament, but never Enoch. Also Revelation speaks of an army of ten thousands or 144,000 holy ones, not millions like in Enoch. There are many more inconsistencies, and many demons names. Forget about it being a divine book.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


have you ever paid attention to the different accounts of Jesus' life? They are not consistent. If don't know that, then you need to brush up on your Bible stuff. I'm not making it up, it's there. Happy hunting...
 Quoting: acegotflows




Your so-called "inconsistencies" in Jesus' life were different accounts only in that, if you tell about a certain event, someone else who was there will tell about the same event, but fill in different details than you...they may remember things that happen that you forgot to mention, or may know some details that you didn't know or forgot about, or have a slightly different way of telling.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


so take that concept and go back to Enoch, the book and the fact that THAT account was taken out even though it mentioned things that others had experienced in other books that do not discount them. So why is THAT PARTICULAR book taken out? just for linguistic issues? WHY IS IT TAKEN OUT?

can you honestly answer that?
 Quoting: acegotflows


Again, Jesus and his disciples never quoted from it. It simply was never part of the Old Testament and not written by any authors from the Bible, especially not Enoch who was alive about 4,000 years prior. You cant seem to specify what was so pivotal about it, besides a few more fallen angels and demon names. The fact that very few (just one manuscript in 1768) documents of it were saved is enough to explain why the book of Enoch was never included. The same is true for the rest of the Apocrypha.
acegotflows

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02/24/2013 04:00 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
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have you ever paid attention to the different accounts of Jesus' life? They are not consistent. If don't know that, then you need to brush up on your Bible stuff. I'm not making it up, it's there. Happy hunting...
 Quoting: acegotflows




Your so-called "inconsistencies" in Jesus' life were different accounts only in that, if you tell about a certain event, someone else who was there will tell about the same event, but fill in different details than you...they may remember things that happen that you forgot to mention, or may know some details that you didn't know or forgot about, or have a slightly different way of telling.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


so take that concept and go back to Enoch, the book and the fact that THAT account was taken out even though it mentioned things that others had experienced in other books that do not discount them. So why is THAT PARTICULAR book taken out? just for linguistic issues? WHY IS IT TAKEN OUT?

can you honestly answer that?
 Quoting: acegotflows


Again, Jesus and his disciples never quoted from it. It simply was never part of the Old Testament and not written by any authors from the Bible, especially not Enoch who was alive about 4,000 years prior. You cant seem to specify what was so pivotal about it, besides a few more fallen angels and demon names. The fact that very few (just one manuscript in 1768) documents of it were saved is enough to explain why the book of Enoch was never included. The same is true for the rest of the Apocrypha.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


here's the thing. I'm not arguing the validity. But you have to look at stuff. Why were names changed. Why do one people have one translation and another have another? It's a wonderful book, but it is woven around a lot. Some stuff just does not gel. You haven't even said much about the Genesis stuff. If things can be questioned, then you have to question all of it. It's all or nothing. It's just a rule of life. If you are left with something that has been picked and chosen to be valid, well then it probably is not. Does not mean it is not real, but we don't even get told the truth about history and such.

I think it's just one big magic spell that has many different codes. It's an amazing work. Godlike even LOL

But honestly. You can't ever say what is true unless all cards are on the table. Nobody knows. We all just guess. Maybe some know, but are they HELPING us or helping themselves?

we gotta do better when trying to prove "beliefs" which by definition can't be proven. It could be real, it could not. I can't judge that . I can only look at the evidence of tampering and the lack of history on things as a bad indicator for the "validity".
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9142675
United States
02/24/2013 04:33 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
...




Your so-called "inconsistencies" in Jesus' life were different accounts only in that, if you tell about a certain event, someone else who was there will tell about the same event, but fill in different details than you...they may remember things that happen that you forgot to mention, or may know some details that you didn't know or forgot about, or have a slightly different way of telling.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34989104


so take that concept and go back to Enoch, the book and the fact that THAT account was taken out even though it mentioned things that others had experienced in other books that do not discount them. So why is THAT PARTICULAR book taken out? just for linguistic issues? WHY IS IT TAKEN OUT?

can you honestly answer that?
 Quoting: acegotflows


Again, Jesus and his disciples never quoted from it. It simply was never part of the Old Testament and not written by any authors from the Bible, especially not Enoch who was alive about 4,000 years prior. You cant seem to specify what was so pivotal about it, besides a few more fallen angels and demon names. The fact that very few (just one manuscript in 1768) documents of it were saved is enough to explain why the book of Enoch was never included. The same is true for the rest of the Apocrypha.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


here's the thing. I'm not arguing the validity. But you have to look at stuff. Why were names changed. Why do one people have one translation and another have another? It's a wonderful book, but it is woven around a lot. Some stuff just does not gel. You haven't even said much about the Genesis stuff. If things can be questioned, then you have to question all of it. It's all or nothing. It's just a rule of life. If you are left with something that has been picked and chosen to be valid, well then it probably is not. Does not mean it is not real, but we don't even get told the truth about history and such.

I think it's just one big magic spell that has many different codes. It's an amazing work. Godlike even LOL

But honestly. You can't ever say what is true unless all cards are on the table. Nobody knows. We all just guess. Maybe some know, but are they HELPING us or helping themselves?

we gotta do better when trying to prove "beliefs" which by definition can't be proven. It could be real, it could not. I can't judge that . I can only look at the evidence of tampering and the lack of history on things as a bad indicator for the "validity".
 Quoting: acegotflows


What names were changed? You mean different translations from Hebrew to Greek to English? If something doesnt gel, please share, if you think there are contradictions or inaccuracies. We had all those 'cards' in the surviving manuscripts. Anything else is just conjecture, we have to do better than that. But theres a reason there are so many denominations and versions of the Bible, Genesis tells us the serpent was trying to deceive us.
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2013 04:36 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
And if not.. Why not? We're they not important enough to be taught the ways of Jesus? I mean, if we're all God's children..wouldn't everyone have known about Him?
And would Christians of early American days have condemned them to Hell because they did not accept Christ as their savior, even though they knew nothing of him?

Please forgive my ignorance.. I'm just looking for answers

cheers
 Quoting: MrsCrickets


When they first came , we had the land they had the bible

when they left, we had the bible, they had the land
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34900904
United States
02/24/2013 04:44 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
And if not.. Why not? We're they not important enough to be taught the ways of Jesus? I mean, if we're all God's children..wouldn't everyone have known about Him?
And would Christians of early American days have condemned them to Hell because they did not accept Christ as their savior, even though they knew nothing of him?

Please forgive my ignorance.. I'm just looking for answers

cheers
 Quoting: MrsCrickets


Your ignorance is hard to forgive.

The BIble is the very reason white Europeans systematically conquered, enslaved, and committed genocide against the Natives.

So yes, to answer your question, I think it's fair to say the Natives have been "taught the ways of Jesus." And I'm not sure that proselytizing is going to save them from the wretched lives we ourselves imposed on them.

I hope that at least partially relieves you of your "ignorance" on the subject.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 33529624
United States
02/24/2013 09:46 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
And if not.. Why not? We're they not important enough to be taught the ways of Jesus? I mean, if we're all God's children..wouldn't everyone have known about Him?
And would Christians of early American days have condemned them to Hell because they did not accept Christ as their savior, even though they knew nothing of him?

Please forgive my ignorance.. I'm just looking for answers

cheers
 Quoting: MrsCrickets


Your ignorance is hard to forgive.

The BIble is the very reason white Europeans systematically conquered, enslaved, and committed genocide against the Natives.

So yes, to answer your question, I think it's fair to say the Natives have been "taught the ways of Jesus." And I'm not sure that proselytizing is going to save them from the wretched lives we ourselves imposed on them.

I hope that at least partially relieves you of your "ignorance" on the subject.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


Your a special kind of asshole aren't you?
david
User ID: 33758960
United States
02/24/2013 12:17 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
And if not.. Why not? We're they not important enough to be taught the ways of Jesus? I mean, if we're all God's children..wouldn't everyone have known about Him?
And would Christians of early American days have condemned them to Hell because they did not accept Christ as their savior, even though they knew nothing of him?

Please forgive my ignorance.. I'm just looking for answers

cheers
 Quoting: MrsCrickets


When they first came , we had the land they had the bible

when they left, we had the bible, they had the land
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6231580


and tho i wear a suit and tie,

i'm still part red man deep inside..

_Paul Revere and the Raiders-
acegotflows

User ID: 28872932
United States
02/24/2013 01:56 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
...


so take that concept and go back to Enoch, the book and the fact that THAT account was taken out even though it mentioned things that others had experienced in other books that do not discount them. So why is THAT PARTICULAR book taken out? just for linguistic issues? WHY IS IT TAKEN OUT?

can you honestly answer that?
 Quoting: acegotflows


Again, Jesus and his disciples never quoted from it. It simply was never part of the Old Testament and not written by any authors from the Bible, especially not Enoch who was alive about 4,000 years prior. You cant seem to specify what was so pivotal about it, besides a few more fallen angels and demon names. The fact that very few (just one manuscript in 1768) documents of it were saved is enough to explain why the book of Enoch was never included. The same is true for the rest of the Apocrypha.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


here's the thing. I'm not arguing the validity. But you have to look at stuff. Why were names changed. Why do one people have one translation and another have another? It's a wonderful book, but it is woven around a lot. Some stuff just does not gel. You haven't even said much about the Genesis stuff. If things can be questioned, then you have to question all of it. It's all or nothing. It's just a rule of life. If you are left with something that has been picked and chosen to be valid, well then it probably is not. Does not mean it is not real, but we don't even get told the truth about history and such.

I think it's just one big magic spell that has many different codes. It's an amazing work. Godlike even LOL

But honestly. You can't ever say what is true unless all cards are on the table. Nobody knows. We all just guess. Maybe some know, but are they HELPING us or helping themselves?

we gotta do better when trying to prove "beliefs" which by definition can't be proven. It could be real, it could not. I can't judge that . I can only look at the evidence of tampering and the lack of history on things as a bad indicator for the "validity".
 Quoting: acegotflows


What names were changed? You mean different translations from Hebrew to Greek to English? If something doesnt gel, please share, if you think there are contradictions or inaccuracies. We had all those 'cards' in the surviving manuscripts. Anything else is just conjecture, we have to do better than that. But theres a reason there are so many denominations and versions of the Bible, Genesis tells us the serpent was trying to deceive us.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9142675


so answer this question.... why so many names of God in the Bible? Were the function of God or different God? Why are there specifically different names in Genesis 1 (elohim) and after (Lord yahovah)?
"a foundation built on lies is always bound to crumble and those who aren't humble shall tumble to the earth"
NATIV WAY
User ID: 34880772
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03/02/2013 12:47 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
And if not.. Why not? We're they not important enough to be taught the ways of Jesus? I mean, if we're all God's children..wouldn't everyone have known about Him?
And would Christians of early American days have condemned them to Hell because they did not accept Christ as their savior, even though they knew nothing of him?

Please forgive my ignorance.. I'm just looking for answers

cheers
 Quoting: MrsCrickets



We have our own spiritual traditions that pre-date your religion that was shoved down every one's throats.

We don't need your god, your laws, your ways, and your lies.

We are reclaiming our heritage, and our lands that was stolen.

As your book says, "First shall be last..."

Law Of Return
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1527197
United States
03/02/2013 04:14 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
Look to the Order of Friars Minor (The Franciscans)
On the first voyage of Christopher Columbus there was a Franciscan named Bartolome de las Casas.. in his later life he wrote a book called "In Defense of the Indians," in which he presented to the King and Queen of Castile and Aragon a defense on behalf of the non-christian inhabitants of the North and South American continents as against the prosecution presented to the Court by a man named Sepulveda. If you legitimately wish to understand the inter relationship between Vatican, and Colonial policies regarding Native Americans.. that book is a good start.
JimBomB

User ID: 35419086
United States
03/02/2013 04:31 AM

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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
I suggest reading; The dark side of christain history.
That royalty written book the bible has killed 6 million +++++ native americans because they were considerd savages because of their ceremonys and not betraying their beliefs for the spanish,french and,brittish slavery beliefs.Very very sad.
fun9
Self delusion can be a grand thing!
MitakuyeOyasin!
TPTB ARE THE MACHINE [link to youtu.be]
[link to youtu.be]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 33529624
United States
03/03/2013 01:29 PM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
If only I could find all these books in my Ashford library ... Will have to order them one at a time
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27765389
United States
04/07/2013 01:03 AM
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Re: Did Native Americans have access to the Bible?
And if not.. Why not? We're they not important enough to be taught the ways of Jesus? I mean, if we're all God's children..wouldn't everyone have known about Him?
And would Christians of early American days have condemned them to Hell because they did not accept Christ as their savior, even though they knew nothing of him?

Please forgive my ignorance.. I'm just looking for answers

cheers
 Quoting: MrsCrickets


Yes.
Unfortunately, whether they wanted it or not.

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