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Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church

 
Eyes Wide Open
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02/22/2013 01:11 AM
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Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church
Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church


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Eyes Wide Open (OP)
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02/22/2013 01:22 AM
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Re: Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church
Today's American Churches Are Neutered: Pastor Chuck Baldwin Reports 1/3

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Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 01:23 AM
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Re: Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church
So pay taxes then, problem solved.
Eyes Wide Open (OP)
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02/22/2013 01:25 AM
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Re: Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church
So pay taxes then, problem solved.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15015575





Bootlickers!!!
Quote

Let´s start with a quote from Voltaire:

"It´s dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."

Or:
It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.

Then Samual Adams:

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!!!
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 01:33 AM
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Re: Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church
Churches are run very much like businesses. They are also tax exempt, unlike other businesses. They are also forbidden by the 1st amendment to have an active role in politics, and the government is forbidden to have an active role in their churchish affairs.

If you want to change that, then the churches must start paying their fair "tithe" to the government. Or, repeal the part of the first amendment where the government has no jurisdiction over you.

Just because you believe in something outside of physics does not make it evenly remotely ok to expect a holy trinity of taking in tax-free cash, passing judgment on others, and then projecting your desired laws onto those who believe otherwise.
Eyes Wide Open (OP)
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02/22/2013 01:34 AM
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Re: Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church
Chuck Baldwin; Resisting Tyranny - Romans 13

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Eyes Wide Open (OP)
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02/22/2013 01:42 AM
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Re: Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church
Romans Chapter 13 By Chuck Baldwin

August 10, 2007


This column is archived at
[link to www.chuckbaldwinlive.com]


It seems that every time someone such as myself attempts to encourage
our Christian brothers and sisters to resist an unconstitutional or
otherwise reprehensible government policy, we hear the retort, "What
about Romans Chapter 13? We Christians must submit to government. Any
government. Read your Bible, and leave me alone." Or words to that
effect.

No doubt, some who use this argument are sincere. They are only
repeating what they have heard their pastor and other religious
leaders say. On the other hand, let's be honest enough to admit that
some who use this argument are just plain lazy, apathetic, and
indifferent. And Romans 13 is their escape from responsibility. I
suspect this is the much larger group, by the way.

Nevertheless, for the benefit of those who are sincere (but obviously
misinformed), let's briefly examine Romans Chapter 13. I quote Romans
Chapter 13, verses 1 through 7, from the Authorized King James text:

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no
power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever
therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and
they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are
not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be
afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise
of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if
thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in
vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon
him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for
wrath, but also for conscience sake. For this cause pay ye tribute
also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this
very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom
tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to
whom honor."

Do our Christian friends who use these verses to teach that we should
not oppose President Bush or any other political leader really believe
that civil magistrates have unlimited authority to do anything they
want without opposition? I doubt whether they truly believe that.

For example, what if our President decided to resurrect the old
monarchal custom of Jus Primae Noctis (Law of First Night)? That was
the old medieval custom when the king claimed the right to sleep with
a subject's bride on the first night of their marriage. Would our
sincere Christian brethren sheepishly say, "Romans Chapter 13 says we
must submit to the government"? I think not. And would any of us
respect any man who would submit to such a law?

So, there are limits to authority. A father has authority in his home,
but does this give him power to abuse his wife and children? Of course
not. An employer has authority on the job, but does this give him
power to control the private lives of his employees? No. A pastor has
overseer authority in the church, but does this give him power to tell
employers in his church how to run their businesses? Of course not.
All human authority is limited in nature. No man has unlimited
authority over the lives of other men. (Lordship and Sovereignty is
the exclusive domain of Jesus Christ.)

By the same token, a civil magistrate has authority in civil matters,
but his authority is limited and defined. Observe that Romans Chapter
13 clearly limits the authority of civil government by strictly
defining its purpose: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but
to the evil . . . For he is the minister of God to thee for good . . .
for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him
that doeth evil."

Notice that civil government must not be a "terror to good works." It
has no power or authority to terrorize good works or good people. God
never gave it that authority. And any government that oversteps that
divine boundary has no divine authority or protection.

Civil government is a "minister of God to thee for good." It is a not
a minister of God for evil. Civil magistrates have a divine duty to
"execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." They have no authority to
execute wrath upon him that doeth good. None. Zilch. Zero. And anyone
who says they do is lying. So, even in the midst of telling Christians
to submit to civil authority, Romans Chapter 13 limits the power and
reach of civil authority.

Did Moses violate God's principle of submission to authority when he
killed the Egyptian taskmaster in defense of his fellow Hebrew? Did
Elijah violate God's principle of submission to authority when he
openly challenged Ahab and Jezebel? Did David violate God's principle
of submission to authority when he refused to surrender to Saul's
troops? Did Daniel violate God's principle of submission to authority
when he disobeyed the king's law to not pray audibly to God? Did the
three Hebrew children violate God's principle of submission to
authority when they refused to bow to the image of the state? Did John
the Baptist violate God's principle of submission to authority when he
publicly scolded King Herod for his infidelity? Did Simon Peter and
the other Apostles violate God's principle of submission to authority
when they refused to stop preaching on the streets of Jerusalem? Did
Paul violate God's principle of submission to authority when he
refused to obey those authorities who demanded that he abandon his
missionary work? In fact, Paul spent almost as much time in jail as he
did out of jail.

Remember that every apostle of Christ (except John) was killed by
hostile civil authorities opposed to their endeavors. Christians
throughout church history were imprisoned, tortured, or killed by
civil authorities of all stripes for refusing to submit to their
various laws and prohibitions. Did all of these Christian martyrs
violate God's principle of submission to authority?

So, even the great prophets, apostles, and writers of the Bible
(including the writer of Romans Chapter 13) understood that human
authority--even civil authority--is limited.

Plus, Paul makes it clear that our submission to civil authority must
be predicated on more than fear of governmental retaliation. Notice,
he said, "Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but
also for conscience sake." Meaning, our obedience to civil authority
is more than just "because they said so." It is also a matter of
conscience. This means we must think and reason for ourselves
regarding the justness and rightness of our government's laws.
Obedience is not automatic or robotic. It is a result of both rational
deliberation and moral approbation.

Therefore, there are times when civil authority may need to be
resisted. Either governmental abuse of power or the violation of
conscience (or both) could precipitate civil disobedience. Of course,
how and when we decide to resist civil authority is an entirely
separate issue. And I will reserve that discussion for another time.

Beyond that, we in the United States of America do not live under a
monarchy. We have no king. There is no single governing official in
this country. America's "supreme Law" does not rest with any man or
any group of men. America's "supreme Law" does not rest with the
President, the Congress, or even the Supreme Court. In America, the
U.S. Constitution is the "supreme Law of the Land." Under our laws,
every governing official publicly promises to submit to the
Constitution of the United States. Do readers understand the
significance of this distinction? I hope so.

This means that in America the "higher powers" are not the men who
occupy elected office, they are the tenets and principles set forth in
the U.S. Constitution. Under our laws and form of government, it is
the duty of every citizen, including our elected officials, to obey
the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, this is how Romans Chapter 13 reads
to Americans:

"Let every soul be subject unto the [U.S. Constitution.] For there is
no [Constitution] but of God: the [Constitution] that be [is] ordained
of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the [Constitution], resisteth
the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves
damnation. For [the Constitution is] not a terror to good works, but
to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the [Constitution]? do
that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For [the
Constitution] is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do
that which is evil, be afraid; for [the Constitution] beareth not the
sword in vain: for [the Constitution] is the minister of God, a
revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must
needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
For this cause pay ye tribute also: for [the Constitution is] God's
minister, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore
to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom
custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor."

Dear Christian friend, the above is exactly the proper understanding
of our responsibility to civil authority in these United States, as
per the teaching of Romans Chapter 13.

Furthermore, Christians, above all people, should desire that their
elected representatives submit to the Constitution, because it is
constitutional government that has done more to protect Christian
liberty than any governing document ever devised by man. As I have
noted before in this column (See:
[link to www.chuckbaldwinlive.com] ),
Biblical principles form the foundation of all three of America's
founding documents: The Declaration of Independence, The U.S.
Constitution, and The Bill of Rights.

As a result, Christians in America (for the most part) have not had to
face the painful decision to "obey God rather than men" and defy their
civil authorities.

The problem in America today is that we have allowed our political
leaders to violate their oaths of office and to ignore, and blatantly
disobey, the "supreme Law of the Land," the U.S. Constitution.
Therefore, if we truly believe Romans Chapter 13, we will insist and
demand that our civil magistrates submit to the U.S. Constitution.

Now, how many of us Christians are going to truly obey Romans Chapter
13?

(c) Chuck Baldwin

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Eyes Wide Open
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02/26/2013 06:17 PM
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Re: Chuck Baldwin 501c3 Government Takeover of the Church
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