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BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP

 
KipKat

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02/25/2013 05:10 PM

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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
5* excellent thread!

PS
did you post this exact same thing in 2011? Thread: BUBBLEGATE: Sonoluminescence - and Sonofusion - Acoustic Inertial Confinement Fusion - DARPA/UCLA/Oak Ridge Lab/Purdue Univ. - Coverup
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/25/2013 05:12 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP


Yes. That one was with my old handle and is a ban word. So, I created a new one instead. If any AC were to try and post even an old quote of mine that has my old handle, it would ban them. So I try and leave them alone, unfortunately.
Kael

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02/25/2013 05:14 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
bump for later feedback :)
freemusic
"Thou we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven that which we are, we are.
One equal temper of heroic hearts made weak by time and fate but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yield"
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/25/2013 05:16 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
bump for later feedback :)
:freemusic:
 Quoting: Kael


Alex Grey.

rockon
KipKat

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02/25/2013 05:20 PM

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Yes. That one was with my old handle and is a ban word. So, I created a new one instead. If any AC were to try and post even an old quote of mine that has my old handle, it would ban them. So I try and leave them alone, unfortunately.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Sorry to hear that hf

Keep reposting those fascinating threads! This is the stuff that keeps me on GLP.
Lex
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02/25/2013 05:22 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
I think a lot of tech has been buried.
Even fusion in standard electrolysis.

Hey didn't they blow up the lab in this movie?
Undestroyer
Truth

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02/25/2013 05:35 PM

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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
Nice find OP 5* Pinned for later.
You cannot destroy my vision when you see my vision undestroyed because I am just an undestroyer.

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Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 05:50 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
i make bubbles in the bathtub.ohno
oO
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02/25/2013 06:05 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
OP - Do yourself a favor and youtube the pistol crab.

See the light it makes underwater from sound?
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


rockon

Here is sonoluminescence occurring in nature.


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Same amount of heat as the sun in a split second..WOW..!!!


Amzing stuff..thx OP


Peace
Dirt Diver

User ID: 35147234
Belgium
02/25/2013 06:06 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
5* thread after watching videos
gotta run now OP but ill try to explain my previous post

afro
 Quoting: Dirt Diver


Thanks. Interested in that.

Been trying to catchup at work...so I have been off and on this thread.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


<<<<That pistol crab was amazing!
Are you familiar with the Tesla pump?
[link to www.youtube.com]
aka tesla turbine

and the hydrosonic pump

[link to www.youtube.com]

now a combination of the two
using the tesla pump as basis adding the holes for cavitation purposes.

now some calculations are required as to size of holes , number of holes etc etc.
The heat released from the cavitation will heat up the water producing steam exiting the tesla turbine under high pressure.



i'll get back to you, sleepy time
Thud
User ID: 35149481
02/25/2013 06:25 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
Thanx SS, I remember when this was happening and my gut instinct said it was covered up.

Going to sit back and watch the vids you've posted.

As a side note, I knew a chap some years back who had the ultimate "garden shed laboratory" and knew what he was doing. He was the first to tell me about this subject and was going to have an attempt at recreating it himself but when the news came out that it was just a scientific curio at best, and heavily hinting that it was all out fraud at worst, he didn't bother taking the project any further.

The bloke has moved off island now and I can't even remember his surname, but he would be very interested in this.

As a another side note, What would be the result if mercury was used as the liquid?. It's outstanding the number of times mercury has been mentioned in "ancient technology"
 Quoting: Thud 35149481


That is EXACTLY where my thoughts went. I don't know what would happen, but I was thinking the same exact thing.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Also need to consider the acoustics of the great pyramid.
The ancients new all about sound waves and I'm now thinking it has a lot more practical applications than just, if ever at all, meditation and oobe's. Most probably did include both.

Acoustic characteristics were built into many, if not all, ancient buildings - UK's Stonehenge to name but one.

Imagine groups of people, in shifts, chanting in an acoustically perfect building where the sound was focused on a vessel containing a liquid and a star as hot as the sun. How did they extract the useful energy from it?

Then the great cathedrals built from the 11th century onwards also incorporated fantastic harmonic abilities, and we all know how they incorporated sacred geometry both physical and audible.

Sorry if I'm trying to teach grandma to suck eggs here SS. ;).

But this could be that combination of sciences that gave our ancient forefathers their energy source.

If there is one thing I've learned over the years is that whenever modern science seems to hint at or even copies ancient science it is quickly suppressed, I mean could it be this easy????.

In the beginning was the word (sound)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35149481


I should have added that, the Cathedral builders didn't know about the focused energy that could be created by harmonic chanting.
Thud
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02/25/2013 07:10 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
seriously tards,
wtf does this mean?

will it blow up the earth?
will it give me brain cancer?
is this another weapon?
will this make gas prices go down?
will this solve autism?
does it affect gmos?



why the fuck does this matter in real life?
does this really have any relevance or is this just a
smartypants bullshit circle jerk?

why is this even an issue?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18380705


You are seriously suffering from a lack of knowledge of our past history.

GLP's database is your friend.

We are not the highest, most advanced culture that has lived on this planet. In some aspects yes, maybe, but prolly not the aspects that define a civilisation.

Why has sonoluminescence been suppressed?.
Is it the energy companies who don't want competition?.
Is it the fact that with unlimited energy, we as a species would destroy our future with massive overpopulation?.
Could the tech lead us to develop a weapon that would make a hydrogen Tzar bomb look like a party popper?.
IDK.

Something happened in our distant past that wiped out an entire global civilization and, as far as I'm concerned, some group or organisation today is trying to stop us utilising that same technology. Whether its to save us from ourselves or most likely to protect their financial concerns of the present, I no longer concern myself with.

What does bother me is that this tech is kept from us with no explanation as to why, thus it's most likely because of modern day greed and protecting THEIR interests.

@ OP SS,

I've remembered the name of the chap I knew some years ago. I'm hoping he might look into the whole subject again and try to replicate the "star in the jar" experiment.

I'll find him and give him this thread, ah fuck it I'll give him your glp name's and blog to him, between the two of you you should be able to duplicate the S in a J experiment with ease.
Two-R-one

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02/25/2013 07:23 PM

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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
you guys will find this real interesting.. If your not familiar with Eric Dollard, you may want to consider it.
this video is about Dollard's experience with standing waves in cathedrals using their incorporated pipe organs

Two-R-one

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02/25/2013 07:26 PM

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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
and this one where he talks about creating a sun in a vacuum tube using radio waves..

Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 07:29 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
the reason it is suppressed is two major reasons.

Nobody makes billions off free energy. The Freemasons don't have power over you, if you have your own power plants in your basement.

Second reason is, you can rig it up to do more than produce electricity, you can make a fusion bomb with it. Every country in the world would have fusion nukes, the big kind, and they would be undetectable, no radiation traces.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 07:34 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
[link to phys.org]

"Optical images of the artificial plasma balls show that they are turbulent with dynamically changing density structures. Electrostatic waves generated by the HAARP radio transmissions are thought to be responsible for accelerating electrons to high enough energy to produce the glow discharge in the neutral atmosphere approaching altitudes of nearly170 kilometers."
Thud
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02/25/2013 07:43 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
you guys will find this real interesting.. If your not familiar with Eric Dollard, you may want to consider it.
this video is about Dollard's experience with standing waves in cathedrals using their incorporated pipe organs

 Quoting: Two-R-one


4 mins in and this guy is reinforcing my knowledge.

and a load of new info.

Thanx Two-R-one.

@ SS you should defo listen to this.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14874606
United States
02/25/2013 08:10 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
seriously tards,
wtf does this mean?

will it blow up the earth?
will it give me brain cancer?
is this another weapon?
will this make gas prices go down?
will this solve autism?
does it affect gmos?



why the fuck does this matter in real life?
does this really have any relevance or is this just a
smartypants bullshit circle jerk?

why is this even an issue?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18380705


You are seriously suffering from a lack of knowledge of our past history.

GLP's database is your friend.

We are not the highest, most advanced culture that has lived on this planet. In some aspects yes, maybe, but prolly not the aspects that define a civilisation.

Why has sonoluminescence been suppressed?.
Is it the energy companies who don't want competition?.
Is it the fact that with unlimited energy, we as a species would destroy our future with massive overpopulation?.
Could the tech lead us to develop a weapon that would make a hydrogen Tzar bomb look like a party popper?.
IDK.

Something happened in our distant past that wiped out an entire global civilization and, as far as I'm concerned, some group or organisation today is trying to stop us utilising that same technology. Whether its to save us from ourselves or most likely to protect their financial concerns of the present, I no longer concern myself with.

What does bother me is that this tech is kept from us with no explanation as to why, thus it's most likely because of modern day greed and protecting THEIR interests.

@ OP SS,

I've remembered the name of the chap I knew some years ago. I'm hoping he might look into the whole subject again and try to replicate the "star in the jar" experiment.

I'll find him and give him this thread, ah fuck it I'll give him your glp name's and blog to him, between the two of you you should be able to duplicate the S in a J experiment with ease.
 Quoting: Thud 35149481


You can find my e-mail addy at my website, if ever interest comes your friend's way.

I AM NOT a scientist. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

I do not like math, though I was very proficient with it in high school and in college. I am more of an idea man, where I can make connections in strange places. I understand concepts and systems very easy.

The reason I say all this, is...I don't know.

I think people have me pegged wrong a lot of times. But, at the same time, I have these wonderful ideas that flow through me, that after investigating I see no reason why they would not work, or even think what would happen if they did 'work'.

That being said, I would love to have some interaction with someone who 'knows what they are doing'. To me, it would be a blessing to be able to 'play' with the things that I see in my head.

Thanks Thud.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 08:11 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
OP - Do yourself a favor and youtube the pistol crab.

See the light it makes underwater from sound?
 Quoting: thisguyistheguy


rockon

Here is sonoluminescence occurring in nature.


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Same amount of heat as the sun in a split second..WOW..!!!


Amzing stuff..thx OP


Peace
 Quoting: oO 35132549


There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 08:12 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
you guys will find this real interesting.. If your not familiar with Eric Dollard, you may want to consider it.
this video is about Dollard's experience with standing waves in cathedrals using their incorporated pipe organs

 Quoting: Two-R-one


Eric Dollard is a true genius.

clappa
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 08:14 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
you guys will find this real interesting.. If your not familiar with Eric Dollard, you may want to consider it.
this video is about Dollard's experience with standing waves in cathedrals using their incorporated pipe organs

 Quoting: Two-R-one


4 mins in and this guy is reinforcing my knowledge.

and a load of new info.

Thanx Two-R-one.

@ SS you should defo listen to this.
 Quoting: Thud 35149481


I had posted and skimmed over Dollards reasoning a while ago. I will add it to my list. If only the time was available for my interests.

On a side not, I want to create this, with a few modifications.

:gearspin:
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 08:23 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
you guys will find this real interesting.. If your not familiar with Eric Dollard, you may want to consider it.
this video is about Dollard's experience with standing waves in cathedrals using their incorporated pipe organs

 Quoting: Two-R-one


hahaha! Listening now. X marks the spot.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2013 11:07 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
makes you wonder what dolphins do when to make bubles and play with them under water... Dolphins = High magi!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1606957


apparently, shrimp can create fusion reactions. this is prolly why BP is trying to drown all of them in sludge...
 Quoting: Edge Rider


bp is just a tool! scape goat...

oil is a plague, a terraforming poison that was placed on purpose on earth long time ago...

they show this to us in promethus... that oil could be the origin of what killed the dinosaurs! dinosaurs killed by a virus! who taught of that huh?
nobody
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United Kingdom
02/26/2013 12:35 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
so you don't even have a real world application for this bubble technology?
just big fancy words and a "cover up mystery"?

i don't mean to be a dick, but if there is some important reason you posted this information, just say it in lay terms....

if the astrotards can do it, you can too, no?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18380705


they have created crystal spheres, inside of copper spheres, which are vibrated, they collapse spherical sound waves down into the center, where a small amount of Tritium water undergoes fusion.

There is about a thimble full of tritium heavy water inside the sphere, and will heat the copper sphere for 10 years, they run water over the spheres to heat water.


The speed of sound through the crystal sphere is 12 times the speed of sound through water, so it is much higher energy. Kinetic energy equals mass times velocity squares, so it's 144 times more energy, just by virtue of it passing through quartz. With the Quartz sphere, it is much easier to maintain a harmonic frequency, and create very high temperatures, much the same way Tesla's earthquake machine can create monstrous energy waves, this device creates monstrous pressure waves all concentrated on a tiny, microscopic point, creature nuclear fusion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 766909


clappa

Nice, thanks for this.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


quartz crystals are perhaps not as sufficient asquasi crystals,, which may be prefered as they resonate with a greator created perfection,, indeed,,

much love,,
Kael

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Romania
02/26/2013 05:35 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
Another great possible technology bites the dust. A real shame...
"Thou we are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven that which we are, we are.
One equal temper of heroic hearts made weak by time and fate but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yield"
Bubbler
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02/27/2013 04:39 AM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
A classmate of mine in the physics department of my uni preformed a sonoluminescence experiment last year. He succeeded in creating visible, stable bubbles but the temperature he measured (via spectral analysis, it was a fairly neat setup) was about two orders of magnitude less than what is required for D-T fusion.

The one thing I don't quite get is the notion of suppression. I disagree that energy companies would go extinct if bubble fusion or similar were made viable; being the major players in the market they would stand to have a lot to gain. Someone has to build and run these machines after all.

I also disagree with the idea of everyone having one of these generators in their basement chugging away producing free energy for their house. Machines under constant use always require maintenance, especially when you consider the amount of power generation systems required in the entire nation. 100% uptime in any industry is an illusion created by backup systems and teams of professionals and repairmen.

The economy of scale still applies; its going to be cheaper to have a centralized entity like a utility company build, maintain and control power generation systems, regardless of whether they're bubble-fusion, cold-fusion or coal. This is for the same reason that its cheaper to have a big factory make cars than it is for hundreds of small auto-workshops to do the same thing.

Most people are willing to pay a monthly bill to ensure that their power is (reasonably) always available when they need it, and that engineers are making repairs when things break down. The idea of "making it someone else's problem" is the core of all quality-of-life improvements in the last century, and is the reason why most americans no longer live on farms and why most people don't know how to build or fix the technology they use on a daily basis. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, its necessary with the complexity of modern technology, and the efficiency it affords allows things like cars and computers to be reasonably affordable.

This is just the average consumer side of things, large industry requires tons of power for factories, metal refineries, chemical plants, etc. They're going to want to continue paying someone to take care of their energy needs instead of doing it in-house, the same way they pay outside companies to handle security, run their computer networks and do their accounting. Its cheaper for them to operate this way because reinventing and acquiring all the techniques, expertise and equipment for each specialized task is expensive and time consuming.

Cold fusion could very well revolutionize the way we power the world, but providing every home in america with a tiny, maintenance-free, no-strings-attached, free (or nearly free) energy generator that costs less for the end user than a centralized system designed for high availability and maintained by trained engineers is a pipe dream.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/28/2013 09:23 AM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
That is a really good point. But, free household energy is the least significant aspect of 'free/cheap' energy.

But, to add, if you look through all the paperwork of this particular experiment, it had a different set-up than what Oak Ridge and other labs were using, which made the difference in how much energy output was recorded.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 01:36 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
V. CONCLUSION.
When James Clerk Maxwell[4] wrote the second
edition of his Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism
he included a quaternion representation of his electromagnetic equations, but he did not include both
left-hand and right-hand derivatives, and the differential
operator nabla was restricted to the 3-dimensional space
form lacking a time component, and so his work is
fundamentally different from that presented here. ()
Indeed, in the calculus of quaternions the differential
operator almost always appears on the left acting
towards the variable on the right, ignoring the other alternative. And even though, Charles Jasper Joly[5] notes
the distinction in his book A Manual of Quaternions,
the importance of the idea goes unnoticed, unexplored,
and unused. As a consequence of this, an important
field component went missing in Maxwell's Equations,
and all of modern physics has developed from there
perpetuating one of the consequences of this oversight,
namely, that the electromagnetic field possesses six
components, whereas, as we have shown, there should
be seven.
float
 Quoting: Le Comte de Saint Germain


Oh dear. I got all excited about this very thing when I was working on my undergrad physics degree. I taught my sell quaternion algebra and learned to do the field equations the way Maxwell intended. There is nothing missing from the modern treatment. The version that is taught at the undergrad level using vector calculus, and time-invariant solutions is only scratching the surface of E-M theory. If you use the four-vector transform (tensor), all the information you speak of is preserved. You can do the math for your self, but I think its over most peoples heads.

I suggest forgetting about the physics for a little while and just concentrate on the math, study the theory of vector calculus and why it works, and then study quaternions and how they work and carefully compare the two. You will find that that there are differences in how operations preserve and manipulate information.

Then go back to the physics and apply each mathematical approach to the same problems and it will be come obvious why Maxwell used the quaternions and why the vector calc approach is what they teach.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25276568


if the operations, v, and, v, are considered representative of the forms nabla to-the-right, and, nabla to-the-left, respectively, then these expressions with the square root of nabla, acting from both sides simultaneously, could be considered the forms of nabla that act to-the-center. The modern vector analysis of Heaviside-Gibbs can then be seen as utilizing those nabla to-the-center operation ideas, extracted from the complicated quaternion calculus, and written symbolically, x v and . v, as though they were some kind of nabla to-the-right operations, whereas in fact the new forms are really algebraically 'central' operations, and neither proper left nor proper right handed expressions at all, despite appearances when written.

Of course, given that the vertical wedge, , is indeed symmetrical about the vertical, with no left hand nor any right hand suggestion being implicated in the symbol's shape, and considering that this is entirely consistent with its modern use effectively as a nabla to-the-center operator, one could argue that this was the real reason why the handed form, , was finally turned up to the vertical. This idea would have alot of merit, if only for the fact that nothing remotely suggesting this has ever appeared in the public scientific literature anywhere before.

It may seem that the new vector algebra was simply a shorthand way of writing these left-right quaternion expressions. But, the effect of the changes went deeper than this. One cannot really just combine left and right actions from Hamilton's system to make it equivalent to the new vector algebra, because the structures are so different. What we see here, when using the left-right combinations to exhibit the form of the operations in quaternions, is partly the impact of that "first" thing lost when mathematicians depreciated the value of the symbol, , by turning it around 90o, thus returning the important "polarity" to the realm of obscurity
 Quoting: Le Comte de Saint Germain


No modern physicist uses the 3-d vector calc approach, this is taught as a way of familiarizing students with various mathematical techniques. The four-vector tensor transform is a good place to start, but this is also at least 50 years old.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25276568


first they laughed at me. Then they said that it can be done, but first I'd have to learn to cube the sphere. The problem just went from 2D to 3D. Then they said that in order to do that (cube a sphere) I'd have to move it up another dimension, to 4D. But, in order to solve that I'd have to go to another dimension higher, to 5D, and so on to infinity. They said that once I solved it for infinity then all I'd have to do is unfold it back down the other side to the square. Simple. Then they laughed some more.

Then it got really heavy. They asked me if I'd met the "5 ancient numbers". I said no, who are they and they said that the answer to the problem is within the 5 ancient numbers and those are:
e, i, phi, pi and zero

herethere
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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03/01/2013 01:42 PM
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Re: BUBBLEGATE - Proof of Successful Sonoluminescence (Acoustic Intertial Confinment Fusion) Experiments COVER-UP
...


Oh dear. I got all excited about this very thing when I was working on my undergrad physics degree. I taught my sell quaternion algebra and learned to do the field equations the way Maxwell intended. There is nothing missing from the modern treatment. The version that is taught at the undergrad level using vector calculus, and time-invariant solutions is only scratching the surface of E-M theory. If you use the four-vector transform (tensor), all the information you speak of is preserved. You can do the math for your self, but I think its over most peoples heads.

I suggest forgetting about the physics for a little while and just concentrate on the math, study the theory of vector calculus and why it works, and then study quaternions and how they work and carefully compare the two. You will find that that there are differences in how operations preserve and manipulate information.

Then go back to the physics and apply each mathematical approach to the same problems and it will be come obvious why Maxwell used the quaternions and why the vector calc approach is what they teach.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25276568


if the operations, v, and, v, are considered representative of the forms nabla to-the-right, and, nabla to-the-left, respectively, then these expressions with the square root of nabla, acting from both sides simultaneously, could be considered the forms of nabla that act to-the-center. The modern vector analysis of Heaviside-Gibbs can then be seen as utilizing those nabla to-the-center operation ideas, extracted from the complicated quaternion calculus, and written symbolically, x v and . v, as though they were some kind of nabla to-the-right operations, whereas in fact the new forms are really algebraically 'central' operations, and neither proper left nor proper right handed expressions at all, despite appearances when written.

Of course, given that the vertical wedge, , is indeed symmetrical about the vertical, with no left hand nor any right hand suggestion being implicated in the symbol's shape, and considering that this is entirely consistent with its modern use effectively as a nabla to-the-center operator, one could argue that this was the real reason why the handed form, , was finally turned up to the vertical. This idea would have alot of merit, if only for the fact that nothing remotely suggesting this has ever appeared in the public scientific literature anywhere before.

It may seem that the new vector algebra was simply a shorthand way of writing these left-right quaternion expressions. But, the effect of the changes went deeper than this. One cannot really just combine left and right actions from Hamilton's system to make it equivalent to the new vector algebra, because the structures are so different. What we see here, when using the left-right combinations to exhibit the form of the operations in quaternions, is partly the impact of that "first" thing lost when mathematicians depreciated the value of the symbol, , by turning it around 90o, thus returning the important "polarity" to the realm of obscurity
 Quoting: Le Comte de Saint Germain


No modern physicist uses the 3-d vector calc approach, this is taught as a way of familiarizing students with various mathematical techniques. The four-vector tensor transform is a good place to start, but this is also at least 50 years old.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25276568


first they laughed at me. Then they said that it can be done, but first I'd have to learn to cube the sphere. The problem just went from 2D to 3D. Then they said that in order to do that (cube a sphere) I'd have to move it up another dimension, to 4D. But, in order to solve that I'd have to go to another dimension higher, to 5D, and so on to infinity. They said that once I solved it for infinity then all I'd have to do is unfold it back down the other side to the square. Simple. Then they laughed some more.

Then it got really heavy. They asked me if I'd met the "5 ancient numbers". I said no, who are they and they said that the answer to the problem is within the 5 ancient numbers and those are:
e, i, phi, pi and zero

herethere
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1065356


Interesting reply. I like it because I was seeing the same thing.

I concluded that it lies within pi, in 4 and 5d, occurring at the inversion point of the torus.

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