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If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?

 
DGN (OP)
Revelation in real time

User ID: 34798113
United States
03/06/2013 11:56 PM

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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Hey, DGN, I really like your threads and agree with what you say. So why did you ban me from replying? I am on a proxy right now to reply to you and am ID number 1550123.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5164562


I only ban because of profanity. I'll see if I can unban you.
DGN (OP)
Revelation in real time

User ID: 34798113
United States
03/06/2013 11:59 PM

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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Hey, DGN, I really like your threads and agree with what you say. So why did you ban me from replying? I am on a proxy right now to reply to you and am ID number 1550123.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5164562


I only ban because of profanity. I'll see if I can unban you.
 Quoting: DGN


You aren't on my list of bans, only 6 currently, in time I unban them all for a second chance. opps hand on a min
Ok you're unbaned.
:peace

Last Edited by DGN on 03/07/2013 12:01 AM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 04:52 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Why? You're not open minded at all, you're 100% committed to the watchtower organization. I know it, you know it. I"m not knocking you for it....but it is what it is. I was once in your shoes about 15 years ago, I understand it. I would have defended the WT till my dying breath too......I get it.

I just call it like I see it.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


So now Lisa you go house to house, city to city, like Jesus used to to preach the word and make disciples of the nations?
Mat 24:14
Mat 28:19,20
Please dont say you count this as your ministry????

Forgive me if you are disabled and its all you can do :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34223520


LMAO! Really???????

1rof1
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa

I know. No doubt the same thought went through your mind as what went through mine. Amazing.
 Quoting: Nine's


and what is that exactly?
everyone knows who "preaches the good news of the kingdom!"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 04:56 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Read the book Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz. Most libraries have a copy.

I've seen families, many lives DESTROYED by the watchtower organization.

No further comment on that matter.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


no further comment?How convenient!
why are you picking individuals out?
you can pick individuals out of every walk of life, religion etc
I will say it again, AS A GROUP , JWs are the ONLY religion that follow the bible 100%

read the parable of Jesus with the wheat and the weeds!
Mat 13:24 onwards.....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35590380
Australia
03/07/2013 05:10 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
sworn to secrecy
they lie.
you deny a group of liars then use their answers to source a mute point?
i more than before now believe charles taze russell was a mason because they deny it.
 Quoting: violentoppisition


The message that Russell spent almost his entire life preaching overwhelmingly testifies that Russell was NOT a member of, nor in support of, the goals of he Freemason organization. On the other hand, there is no evidence at all that Russell was a Mason. I have no doubt whatsoever that when Russell said, "I have never been a Mason," that he was not lying.
 Quoting: BibleLight


Thats why his headstone is a masonic pyramid with the masonic logo on it and its located right down the road from a masonic lodge.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16254379


THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
orb
User ID: 34228125
United States
03/07/2013 05:39 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Is anyone posting on this thread an active
'Jehovah's Witness"?

Thank you
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 05:41 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Is anyone posting on this thread an active
'Jehovah's Witness"?

Thank you
 Quoting: orb 34228125


yes
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21057428
United States
03/07/2013 07:43 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Jws are the ONLY ones who follow Gods word 100% Period!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34223520


Really? LOL!
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 07:48 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Jws are the ONLY ones who follow Gods word 100% Period!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34223520


Really? LOL!
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21057428
United States
03/07/2013 07:50 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Really? LOL!
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860


Are you kidding me? So, now I'm a liar?

Whatever........
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 08:23 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860


Are you kidding me? So, now I'm a liar?

Whatever........
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


U believe winesses dont believe in heaven????
Really? and you were a witness for 7 years? are you kidding me?

And yes there is only one absolute truth and one way
Jesus said of the time of end
"21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness."

Mat 7:13 "13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it"

And as regards these problems you experienced in the congregation, of course you will have problems, we are all imperfect and ALL of us need the ransom sacrifice!!!!

So how do we deal with wrongdoers in the congregation?
We disfellowship them!!!! Yet you disaggree with this?
Like u mentioned one of the elders having an affair etc
You cant have it both ways?
Either you want them in the congregation or you dont?

1 Cor 5:13 "In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.

JW congregations follow the example of the 1st century christians, I repeat!

Jws are the ONLY religion that follow the bible 100%

Id deal with each of your issues if I felt u had an open mind.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 08:27 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Jws are the ONLY ones who follow Gods word 100% Period!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34223520


Really? LOL!
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


1 Tim 6:8 "So, having sustenance and covering, we shall be content with these things."
Nine's

User ID: 23438707
United States
03/07/2013 08:42 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Really? LOL!
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860



I know. When you see someone spreading love instead of hatred, who speaks with kindness rather than arrogance, it is hard to believe she was. She's made a wonderful recovery.

BTW where were you all the years DGN was being picked on? Ganged up on, ridiculed, called names? How many of you spoke up for him? How many helped your brother? Your actions speak so loudly it's hard to hear your words.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 08:50 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860



I know. When you see someone spreading love instead of hatred, who speaks with kindness rather than arrogance, it is hard to believe she was. She's made a wonderful recovery.

BTW where were you all the years DGN was being picked on? Ganged up on, ridiculed, called names? How many of you spoke up for him? How many helped your brother? Your actions speak so loudly it's hard to hear your words.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23
 Quoting: Nine's

Its not a place i plan to frequent that often to be honest.

JWs are the only religion who follow the bible 100%!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21057428
United States
03/07/2013 08:50 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860



I know. When you see someone spreading love instead of hatred, who speaks with kindness rather than arrogance, it is hard to believe she was. She's made a wonderful recovery.

BTW where were you all the years DGN was being picked on? Ganged up on, ridiculed, called names? How many of you spoke up for him? How many helped your brother? Your actions speak so loudly it's hard to hear your words.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23
 Quoting: Nine's


Yea, DGN is a good guy. I personally wonder if he might come out of the organization when he starts to see real prophetic last days events happen that the WT organization can't explain.

Even if he does not ever come out of the WT, I still think he's one of the gems with a good heart.

hf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 08:54 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860



I know. When you see someone spreading love instead of hatred, who speaks with kindness rather than arrogance, it is hard to believe she was. She's made a wonderful recovery.

BTW where were you all the years DGN was being picked on? Ganged up on, ridiculed, called names? How many of you spoke up for him? How many helped your brother? Your actions speak so loudly it's hard to hear your words.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23
 Quoting: Nine's


Yea, DGN is a good guy. I personally wonder if he might come out of the organization when he starts to see real prophetic last days events happen that the WT organization can't explain.

Even if he does not ever come out of the WT, I still think he's one of the gems with a good heart.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


so your ignoring my post?
the scriptures speak for themselves I guess!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 08:56 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860



I know. When you see someone spreading love instead of hatred, who speaks with kindness rather than arrogance, it is hard to believe she was. She's made a wonderful recovery.

BTW where were you all the years DGN was being picked on? Ganged up on, ridiculed, called names? How many of you spoke up for him? How many helped your brother? Your actions speak so loudly it's hard to hear your words.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23
 Quoting: Nine's


Yea, DGN is a good guy. I personally wonder if he might come out of the organization when he starts to see real prophetic last days events happen that the WT organization can't explain.

Even if he does not ever come out of the WT, I still think he's one of the gems with a good heart.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


so your ignoring my post?
the scriptures speak for themselves I guess!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860

YOU CANT PICK AND CHOOSE WHICH SCRIPTURES YOU WILL ADHERE TO!
JWS ARE THE ONLY RELIGION THAT FOLLOW THE BIBLE 100%!!!!!!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35674860
United Kingdom
03/07/2013 09:09 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860



I know. When you see someone spreading love instead of hatred, who speaks with kindness rather than arrogance, it is hard to believe she was. She's made a wonderful recovery.

BTW where were you all the years DGN was being picked on? Ganged up on, ridiculed, called names? How many of you spoke up for him? How many helped your brother? Your actions speak so loudly it's hard to hear your words.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23
 Quoting: Nine's


Oh and we dont worry about ridicule etc
Just like Jesus as his followers we are used to it!!!
:)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32345319
United States
03/07/2013 09:29 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Not to be rude, but it's not helpful to get in a shouting match with posers. Better to state facts.
Jw's do believe in Jesus, heaven, rapture, and other biblical teachings...and then some
oh yeah, we,re perfect too
Lol
DGN (OP)
Revelation in real time

User ID: 34798113
United States
03/07/2013 11:53 AM

Report Abusive Post
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Yes really, last year Jehovah's international spiritual nation volunteered 1.7 billion hours to inviting people in 235 nations to learn his re3quirements. Tell me about 'congregation'.
See the third link below.
 Quoting: DGN


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860


Are you kidding me? So, now I'm a liar?

Whatever........
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


"“The sower sows the word. 15 These, then, are the ones alongside the road where the word is sown; but as soon as they have heard [it] Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 And likewise these are the ones sown upon the rocky places: as soon as they have heard the word, they accept it with joy. 17 Yet they have no root in themselves, but they continue for a time; then as soon as tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, they are stumbled. 18 There are still others who are sown among the thorns; these are the ones that have heard the word, 19 but the anxieties of this system of things and the deceptive power of riches and the desires for the rest of the things make inroads and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 Finally, the ones that were sown on the fine soil are those who listen to the word and favorably receive it and bear fruit thirtyfold and sixty and a hundred.” Mr4:14
DGN (OP)
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03/13/2013 01:11 AM

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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


That's awesome, and I love the JW people.

But, His requirements and the watchtower's requirements are not the same thing.

The watchtowers requirements were burdensome, oppressive, and difficult to put it mildly.

Walk lock, stock and barrel like a stepford wife, and you'll be ok. But dare to question or step out of line and BAM! You're called out on the red carpet.

Not to mention that the doctrine is seriously screwed up.

Here is just a bit of the doctrine that I believe is 100% wrong.......and I just woke up, this is just a few..

1. No heaven or hell
2. No rapture
3. 1914
4. The JW's are the locusts of revelation
5. No blood transfusions
6. Difellowshipping
7. Jesus is michael the archangel
8. Keeping track of field service hours and seperating people into groups according to how many hours they put in
9. No trinity
10. No gifts of the spirit
11. Only JW's are real christians and all other christians are false
12. Spending all their money to build elaborate buildings, but do nothing to help their own poor and struggling members

I could sit here all morning and go on and on, but there is no point. I've done my homework, and like I said.......I was there. I saw the dirt that goes on inside the walls that nobody wants to talk about.

Granted, nobody is perfect, I get that. But, when you base your faith, salvation, and every aspect of your life and spirituality around a group of MEN, you're going to have serious problems.

Jesus told us to follow Him, not a group of old men in NY.

Again, I'm not bashing the JW's........I love them and consider them my brothers and sisters. The only problem is that they consider themselves above all other believers in this world and they aren't afraid to say it. There is so much wrong with the WT, that we could discuss it for months.

The poster from the UK wanted to talk about how moral the JW's are. Ok....well, I attended 2 kingdom halls in my 7 years as a JW. In the first one, there were serious alligations of sexual child abuse involving atleast one of the elders. In the second kingdom hall I attended, one of the married elders was having an affair with a close friend of mine. He ended up leaving his wife and kids and moved in with her. Another JW friend of mine had sex with a teenage boy and got pregnant. All the teenage girls had eating disorders and were just all messed up.

My best friend left the organization and her entire family has not spoken to her or her children since. That was about 15 years ago. Her own mother and father won't even speak to her or her kids. The amount of damage that has done to that family is beyond comprehension. They are all atheists now because of the cruelty they experienced. Such a pity, you have no idea.

I saw a single mother of 5 kids living in squalor, nobody helped or even cared to ask. She was a JW sister and that congregation was pretty wealthy.

Many people have died because the WT says they can't accept a blood transfusion. Many people have killed themselves because a group of men decided that the person should be kicked out and loose all of their family, friends and lives.

Many live in poverty and struggle because going to college is frowned upon.

So, please......don't go on here and act like JW's are perfect people and the only real christians on earth and all that cause that simply is a lie. They are no different then any other group of christians out there......and they have their flaws too, and pretty big ones at that.

Frankly, I don't care enough to spend anymore more time on this post. All it does is bring back some bad memories and remind me of the incredible hurt that the WT has caused some people that I loved very much. I have some good memories of being a JW, but also some bad ones. They are not perfect.

I'd rather spend the majority of my time here spreading the Love of Jesus with unbelievers.........like I've been doing here almost daily for the last 3 years.....all by myself, nobody keeping track of my hours, just me and Jesus, as it should be because our salvation is about faith, love and grace between us and the Lord and no man.

Have a good one.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860


Are you kidding me? So, now I'm a liar?

Whatever........
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


"“The sower sows the word. 15 These, then, are the ones alongside the road where the word is sown; but as soon as they have heard [it] Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 And likewise these are the ones sown upon the rocky places: as soon as they have heard the word, they accept it with joy. 17 Yet they have no root in themselves, but they continue for a time; then as soon as tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, they are stumbled. 18 There are still others who are sown among the thorns; these are the ones that have heard the word, 19 but the anxieties of this system of things and the deceptive power of riches and the desires for the rest of the things make inroads and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 Finally, the ones that were sown on the fine soil are those who listen to the word and favorably receive it and bear fruit thirtyfold and sixty and a hundred.” Mr4:14
 Quoting: DGN


So lisa, were you ever really a Witness, or just an also ran?
Anonymous Coward
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03/13/2013 08:32 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
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Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860


Are you kidding me? So, now I'm a liar?

Whatever........
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


"“The sower sows the word. 15 These, then, are the ones alongside the road where the word is sown; but as soon as they have heard [it] Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 And likewise these are the ones sown upon the rocky places: as soon as they have heard the word, they accept it with joy. 17 Yet they have no root in themselves, but they continue for a time; then as soon as tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, they are stumbled. 18 There are still others who are sown among the thorns; these are the ones that have heard the word, 19 but the anxieties of this system of things and the deceptive power of riches and the desires for the rest of the things make inroads and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 Finally, the ones that were sown on the fine soil are those who listen to the word and favorably receive it and bear fruit thirtyfold and sixty and a hundred.” Mr4:14
 Quoting: DGN


So lisa, were you ever really a Witness, or just an also ran?
 Quoting: DGN


Yes, I really was a baptized sister for 7 years, faithful and devoted.

If I trusted you, I'd even give you my name and old congregation so you could verify, but sorry.......I don't trust you either.
DGN (OP)
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03/13/2013 08:49 AM

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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Now I dont believe you used to be a witness..........
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35674860


Are you kidding me? So, now I'm a liar?

Whatever........
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


"“The sower sows the word. 15 These, then, are the ones alongside the road where the word is sown; but as soon as they have heard [it] Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 And likewise these are the ones sown upon the rocky places: as soon as they have heard the word, they accept it with joy. 17 Yet they have no root in themselves, but they continue for a time; then as soon as tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, they are stumbled. 18 There are still others who are sown among the thorns; these are the ones that have heard the word, 19 but the anxieties of this system of things and the deceptive power of riches and the desires for the rest of the things make inroads and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 Finally, the ones that were sown on the fine soil are those who listen to the word and favorably receive it and bear fruit thirtyfold and sixty and a hundred.” Mr4:14
 Quoting: DGN


So lisa, were you ever really a Witness, or just an also ran?
 Quoting: DGN


In your 12 point list you say Witnesses don't believe in heaven.
"And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth." Rv14:1
How could anyone attend meetings for 7 years and miss this? It's required knowledge in the 100 question baptism review.

Last Edited by DGN on 03/13/2013 08:49 AM
Newheart

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03/13/2013 09:13 AM

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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
Before I offer to sell you the ocean I own in Nebraska, can you tell me about the footnotes used in this video?

Is it a Watchtower publication by any chance?
 Quoting: Nine's


No they have bigger fish to fry. I found it on Youtube. Say, uh.... how much you asking for that ocean, does it come with an island and dolphins and stuff?
beer2
 Quoting: DGN


Yes, I imagine. Corporate takeovers are rough. Make sure you aren't one of the fish they fry. 8)

So if the footnotes aren't from one of your Corporate publications, where are they from? Doesn't do a lot of good to provide footnotes if you have nowhere to reference them.

The ocean? It's 60.00 a gallon, cuz it's miracle water but for you, I'll do a half price sale. The dolphins were disfellowshipped and sent to the ocean. They had an odd notion they were free to think for themselves and roll drowning people to shore. Truth be told, they were too good for his body of water, but don't spread that around. They weren't at all upset by their release. 8)


dlphin
 Quoting: Nine's


If they weren't supposed to think for themselves they would never have learned to swim. Helping drowning people to shore...hmmm.... sounds like a controversial, 'no good deed goes unpunished' scenario. As for that island deal... can I just post my credit card number here and buy it now cause I curious what it costs?
 Quoting: DGN


Awesome illustration! When I was free from the Watchtower INC. My walk in the desert began.

There I heard the calls of the drowning cows in the ocean calling out for me to save them. Other dreams I dregged the river of stones and brought them out of the rivers side,and now the river is flowing again freely and picking up speed.
sbmsbmgatherstonesgatherstones
treeoflifewaterd


To the living Stones gathered, and to be
gathered to Christ, the Foundation Stone,
(where-ever hid, scattered and dispersed) who
are elected in God for the New-Jerusalem-Glory directly into the hearts of mankind ,all Love, Grace, Peace,
and Joy be multiplied from him who was, is,
and is to come.



Last Edited by New Heart on 03/13/2013 09:19 AM
Newheart

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03/13/2013 09:16 AM

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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
riverrunsthroughgatherstonesgatherstonesgatherstones

Last Edited by New Heart on 03/13/2013 11:10 AM
Anonymous Coward
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03/13/2013 12:15 PM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


Are you kidding me? So, now I'm a liar?

Whatever........
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


"“The sower sows the word. 15 These, then, are the ones alongside the road where the word is sown; but as soon as they have heard [it] Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 And likewise these are the ones sown upon the rocky places: as soon as they have heard the word, they accept it with joy. 17 Yet they have no root in themselves, but they continue for a time; then as soon as tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, they are stumbled. 18 There are still others who are sown among the thorns; these are the ones that have heard the word, 19 but the anxieties of this system of things and the deceptive power of riches and the desires for the rest of the things make inroads and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 Finally, the ones that were sown on the fine soil are those who listen to the word and favorably receive it and bear fruit thirtyfold and sixty and a hundred.” Mr4:14
 Quoting: DGN


So lisa, were you ever really a Witness, or just an also ran?
 Quoting: DGN


In your 12 point list you say Witnesses don't believe in heaven.
"And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth." Rv14:1
How could anyone attend meetings for 7 years and miss this? It's required knowledge in the 100 question baptism review.
 Quoting: DGN


I meant that you don't believe that we go to heaven when we die. I didn't realize I needed to be that specific.

Going to heaven is such a big part of my life that I forgot that there are others out there that don't believe it.

And, JW's do not believe in hell........so I lumped the 2 places together which made sense to me that early in the morning.

But........whatever. It really does not matter.
DGN (OP)
Revelation in real time

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03/13/2013 09:25 PM

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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


"“The sower sows the word. 15 These, then, are the ones alongside the road where the word is sown; but as soon as they have heard [it] Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 And likewise these are the ones sown upon the rocky places: as soon as they have heard the word, they accept it with joy. 17 Yet they have no root in themselves, but they continue for a time; then as soon as tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, they are stumbled. 18 There are still others who are sown among the thorns; these are the ones that have heard the word, 19 but the anxieties of this system of things and the deceptive power of riches and the desires for the rest of the things make inroads and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 Finally, the ones that were sown on the fine soil are those who listen to the word and favorably receive it and bear fruit thirtyfold and sixty and a hundred.” Mr4:14
 Quoting: DGN


So lisa, were you ever really a Witness, or just an also ran?
 Quoting: DGN


In your 12 point list you say Witnesses don't believe in heaven.
"And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth." Rv14:1
How could anyone attend meetings for 7 years and miss this? It's required knowledge in the 100 question baptism review.
 Quoting: DGN


I meant that you don't believe that we go to heaven when we die. I didn't realize I needed to be that specific.

Going to heaven is such a big part of my life that I forgot that there are others out there that don't believe it.

And, JW's do not believe in hell........so I lumped the 2 places together which made sense to me that early in the morning.

But........whatever. It really does not matter.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Where did you get the idea the dead go to heaven?
"Actually David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom YOU impaled.” Ac2:34

"I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. 21 Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth? 22 And I have seen that there is nothing better than that the man should rejoice in his works, for that is his portion; because who will bring him in to look on what is going to be after him?" Ecc3:18
How did you miss these basic truths? Death is not a reward for sin, a promotion to a better place, it's the penalty.

Last Edited by DGN on 03/13/2013 09:27 PM
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03/14/2013 07:04 AM
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
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So lisa, were you ever really a Witness, or just an also ran?
 Quoting: DGN


In your 12 point list you say Witnesses don't believe in heaven.
"And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth." Rv14:1
How could anyone attend meetings for 7 years and miss this? It's required knowledge in the 100 question baptism review.
 Quoting: DGN


I meant that you don't believe that we go to heaven when we die. I didn't realize I needed to be that specific.

Going to heaven is such a big part of my life that I forgot that there are others out there that don't believe it.

And, JW's do not believe in hell........so I lumped the 2 places together which made sense to me that early in the morning.

But........whatever. It really does not matter.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Where did you get the idea the dead go to heaven?
"Actually David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom YOU impaled.” Ac2:34

"I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. 21 Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth? 22 And I have seen that there is nothing better than that the man should rejoice in his works, for that is his portion; because who will bring him in to look on what is going to be after him?" Ecc3:18
How did you miss these basic truths? Death is not a reward for sin, a promotion to a better place, it's the penalty.
 Quoting: DGN


None of the dead went to heaven........UNTIL Jesus died and ascended Himself.

Have you never spoken to a born again christian before? I know you have....
DGN (OP)
Revelation in real time

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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


In your 12 point list you say Witnesses don't believe in heaven.
"And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth." Rv14:1
How could anyone attend meetings for 7 years and miss this? It's required knowledge in the 100 question baptism review.
 Quoting: DGN


I meant that you don't believe that we go to heaven when we die. I didn't realize I needed to be that specific.

Going to heaven is such a big part of my life that I forgot that there are others out there that don't believe it.

And, JW's do not believe in hell........so I lumped the 2 places together which made sense to me that early in the morning.

But........whatever. It really does not matter.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Where did you get the idea the dead go to heaven?
"Actually David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom YOU impaled.” Ac2:34

"I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. 21 Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth? 22 And I have seen that there is nothing better than that the man should rejoice in his works, for that is his portion; because who will bring him in to look on what is going to be after him?" Ecc3:18
How did you miss these basic truths? Death is not a reward for sin, a promotion to a better place, it's the penalty.
 Quoting: DGN


None of the dead went to heaven........UNTIL Jesus died and ascended Himself.

Have you never spoken to a born again christian before? I know you have....
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


They are not the source of education Jehovah's word is. The apostles and first century Christians did not go to heaven when they died, they went to the grave like everyone else until Jesus' heavenly enthronement in 1914.

"And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years." Rv20:1
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Re: If Charles Taze Russell was a free mason why does the Grand Lodge deny it?
...


I meant that you don't believe that we go to heaven when we die. I didn't realize I needed to be that specific.

Going to heaven is such a big part of my life that I forgot that there are others out there that don't believe it.

And, JW's do not believe in hell........so I lumped the 2 places together which made sense to me that early in the morning.

But........whatever. It really does not matter.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Where did you get the idea the dead go to heaven?
"Actually David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom YOU impaled.” Ac2:34

"I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. 21 Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth? 22 And I have seen that there is nothing better than that the man should rejoice in his works, for that is his portion; because who will bring him in to look on what is going to be after him?" Ecc3:18
How did you miss these basic truths? Death is not a reward for sin, a promotion to a better place, it's the penalty.
 Quoting: DGN


None of the dead went to heaven........UNTIL Jesus died and ascended Himself.

Have you never spoken to a born again christian before? I know you have....
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


They are not the source of education Jehovah's word is. The apostles and first century Christians did not go to heaven when they died, they went to the grave like everyone else until Jesus' heavenly enthronement in 1914.

"And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years." Rv20:1
 Quoting: DGN


2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord."

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