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Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

 
ParadigmShift

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03/01/2013 07:46 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

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Well, fornication and masturbation just to name two of several distinct possibilities. The whole crux of your statement falls apart on that basis. Maybe you should ask yourself what you are trying to do by starting a thread such as this. There are a whole host of ills in the world. Why should this issue deserve so much focus? (rhetorical)

Food for thought; the so often called 'abomination' is clearly described as man laying with another man as if they were a woman. For starters no one should be making any blanket arguments or condemnations that extend past the act itself.

The other thing I'd like to mention is all the holy rollers think they know why God would find such an act an a 'abomination' but do they have any real idea? They seem to completely ignore the fact eating pigs, shellfish, or rabbits are all considered abominations as well (BTW I'd wager most of them are inclined to eagerly gobble all three down when given a half a chance)

What is being overlooked here is that fundamentally these laws were set down to keep a primitive people relatively free from disease, blight, genetic mutation and social disorder. Personally I'm led to believe God's loathing of man on man sex mostly has to do with how scientifically unhealthy it is to go in the exit hole. The result is bound to be eventually a premature death.

I know this will likely just get ignored so carry on trying to remove the obvious motes from the eyes of others.

And hey, how are those bloody Visene cross drops doing on working out that plank?
 Quoting: Rising Son


Noah had relations with his son, isn't that both incest and homosexuality? And he was the only one saved.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.

Genesis 6:12

In the book of Genesis we read the blunt, categorical statement: "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God [angels] saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. . . .There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men [had sexual relations with them], that they bare CHILDREN to them, the same became MIGHTY MEN which were of old, men of renown" (Gen.6:1-4).

Who were these "giants" and men of "renown"? What does the Bible tell us about them? This is a fascinating story -- one that needs to be told!

What happens when a spirit being appears as flesh, and unites with a mortal woman, and their two seeds join -- the sperm of the male and the egg of the female? This was a union which God had forbidden -- for good reason. The offspring which resulted, were not only proud, insolent, arrogant, and self-centered -- they were also extremely cunning in some cases -- and they were sometimes GIGANTIC in stature! They disrupted the entire ecology and balance of life of the world before the Flood. Admits the Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29801624



Susie

You ever read Enoch? His story of the giants, THE WATCHERS, is all in there. I highly recommend it.

HF

Last Edited by ParadigmShift on 03/01/2013 07:47 PM
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith Yahweh, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
ParadigmShift

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03/01/2013 07:50 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

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Let's see what Gen. 9:18-27 tells us:


The sons of Noah who went forth from the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.)
These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the people of the whole earth were dispersed.
Noah began to be a man of the soil, and he planted a vineyard.
He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent.
And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brothers outside.
Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned backward, and they did not see their father's nakedness.
When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him,
he said, "Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be to his brothers."
 Quoting: ParadigmShift



Are you really that blind? Really?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29801624


That is definitely a passage about homosexual sex. Their faces were backwards. Why else would Noah be pissed?
 Quoting: ParadigmShift



They were turning their faces as to look over their shoulders, thus this brings us back to the original sin. Adam and Eve, being naked. Come on stop thinking with your lustful mind and start thinking with the spirit of God.

You will never validate homosexual sex in the scriptures you will never do it and those of you that try deserve harsh punishment.

Last Edited by ParadigmShift on 03/01/2013 07:53 PM
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith Yahweh, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 08:01 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

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Are you really that blind? Really?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29801624


That is definitely a passage about homosexual sex. Their faces were backwards. Why else would Noah be pissed?
 Quoting: ParadigmShift



They were turning their faces as to look over their shoulders, thus this brings us back to the original sin. Adam and Eve, being naked. Come on stop thinking with your lustful mind and start thinking with the spirit of God.

You will never validate homosexual sex in the scriptures you will never do it and those of you that try deserve harsh punishment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29801624


Your bible is a book of collected lies. It is a book. You worship a book.
Raymantheheretic

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03/01/2013 08:02 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

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What else would sexual immorality mean if not that? Jesus came to fulfill the scriptures, the Old Testament. He was the living manifestation of the Word - and the Old Testament clearly dictated that homosexuality was wrong. By deductive reasoning, you are allowed to assume that sexual immorality in this case means homosexuality, because adultery has already been differentiated, leaving what had previously been defined in the Old Testament as immoral sexual acts. When coupled with Jesus' affirmation of traditional marriage in the other passage I referenced, it becomes very clear what Jesus' stance on homosexuality really is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33366328

Well, fornication and masturbation just to name two of several distinct possibilities. The whole crux of your statement falls apart on that basis. Maybe you should ask yourself what you are trying to do by starting a thread such as this. There are a whole host of ills in the world. Why should this issue deserve so much focus? (rhetorical)

Food for thought; the so often called 'abomination' is clearly described as man laying with another man as if they were a woman. For starters no one should be making any blanket arguments or condemnations that extend past the act itself.

The other thing I'd like to mention is all the holy rollers think they know why God would find such an act an a 'abomination' but do they have any real idea? They seem to completely ignore the fact eating pigs, shellfish, or rabbits are all considered abominations as well (BTW I'd wager most of them are inclined to eagerly gobble all three down when given a half a chance)

What is being overlooked here is that fundamentally these laws were set down to keep a primitive people relatively free from disease, blight, genetic mutation and social disorder. Personally I'm led to believe God's loathing of man on man sex mostly has to do with how scientifically unhealthy it is to go in the exit hole. The result is bound to be eventually a premature death.

I know this will likely just get ignored so carry on trying to remove the obvious motes from the eyes of others.

And hey, how are those bloody Visene cross drops doing on working out that plank?
 Quoting: Rising Son


Two key words 'primitive' and 'scientific' Your skin has just been shed Heretic. GTFO of here wolf.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic

Leave off the name calling and say something respectable or GTFO your own self.

Are you saying going in the exit hole is scientifically a good idea or that the people of Moses' generation were not primitive?

Seems as if I may have touched a nerve.
ParadigmShift

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03/01/2013 08:05 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

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Well, fornication and masturbation just to name two of several distinct possibilities. The whole crux of your statement falls apart on that basis. Maybe you should ask yourself what you are trying to do by starting a thread such as this. There are a whole host of ills in the world. Why should this issue deserve so much focus? (rhetorical)

Food for thought; the so often called 'abomination' is clearly described as man laying with another man as if they were a woman. For starters no one should be making any blanket arguments or condemnations that extend past the act itself.

The other thing I'd like to mention is all the holy rollers think they know why God would find such an act an a 'abomination' but do they have any real idea? They seem to completely ignore the fact eating pigs, shellfish, or rabbits are all considered abominations as well (BTW I'd wager most of them are inclined to eagerly gobble all three down when given a half a chance)

What is being overlooked here is that fundamentally these laws were set down to keep a primitive people relatively free from disease, blight, genetic mutation and social disorder. Personally I'm led to believe God's loathing of man on man sex mostly has to do with how scientifically unhealthy it is to go in the exit hole. The result is bound to be eventually a premature death.

I know this will likely just get ignored so carry on trying to remove the obvious motes from the eyes of others.

And hey, how are those bloody Visene cross drops doing on working out that plank?
 Quoting: Rising Son


Two key words 'primitive' and 'scientific' Your skin has just been shed Heretic. GTFO of here wolf.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic

Leave off the name calling and say something respectable or GTFO your own self.

Are you saying going in the exit hole is scientifically a good idea or that the people of Moses' generation were not primitive?

Seems as if I may have touched a nerve.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


Was God not the beginning and the End? Do you think he did not see the end times? When you bring science into the equation then I will also bring 'fallen' angels into the equation.

You interpret God based on times, and I say woe to you. God is omnipotent and knows all, so to say he preached his word and shared his word with primitive times, before science, shows your lack of faith.
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith Yahweh, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
ParadigmShift

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03/01/2013 08:07 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

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That is definitely a passage about homosexual sex. Their faces were backwards. Why else would Noah be pissed?
 Quoting: ParadigmShift



They were turning their faces as to look over their shoulders, thus this brings us back to the original sin. Adam and Eve, being naked. Come on stop thinking with your lustful mind and start thinking with the spirit of God.

You will never validate homosexual sex in the scriptures you will never do it and those of you that try deserve harsh punishment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29801624


Your bible is a book of collected lies. It is a book. You worship a book.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


And I hope your offered a chance to repent. Soon my father will show you His power, and then might you look at Him and say it is LIES
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith Yahweh, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
Raymantheheretic

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03/01/2013 08:22 PM
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Two key words 'primitive' and 'scientific' Your skin has just been shed Heretic. GTFO of here wolf.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic

Leave off the name calling and say something respectable or GTFO your own self.

Are you saying going in the exit hole is scientifically a good idea or that the people of Moses' generation were not primitive?

Seems as if I may have touched a nerve.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


Was God not the beginning and the End? Do you think he did not see the end times? When you bring science into the equation then I will also bring 'fallen' angels into the equation.

You interpret God based on times, and I say woe to you. God is omnipotent and knows all, so to say he preached his word and shared his word with primitive times, before science, shows your lack of faith.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Who are you to say 'woe' to anyone? That's the entire meaning of my response.

Get your own house in order and stop pretending to go about trying to set others straight. The AC is correct. You do worship a book. One you barely, at best, have begun to comprehend.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 08:25 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

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They were turning their faces as to look over their shoulders, thus this brings us back to the original sin. Adam and Eve, being naked. Come on stop thinking with your lustful mind and start thinking with the spirit of God.

You will never validate homosexual sex in the scriptures you will never do it and those of you that try deserve harsh punishment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29801624


Your bible is a book of collected lies. It is a book. You worship a book.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


And I hope your offered a chance to repent. Soon my father will show you His power, and then might you look at Him and say it is LIES
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29801624

Isn't he in a nursing home or something?
ParadigmShift

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03/01/2013 08:45 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others

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Leave off the name calling and say something respectable or GTFO your own self.

Are you saying going in the exit hole is scientifically a good idea or that the people of Moses' generation were not primitive?

Seems as if I may have touched a nerve.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


Was God not the beginning and the End? Do you think he did not see the end times? When you bring science into the equation then I will also bring 'fallen' angels into the equation.

You interpret God based on times, and I say woe to you. God is omnipotent and knows all, so to say he preached his word and shared his word with primitive times, before science, shows your lack of faith.
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Who are you to say 'woe' to anyone? That's the entire meaning of my response.

Get your own house in order and stop pretending to go about trying to set others straight. The AC is correct. You do worship a book. One you barely, at best, have begun to comprehend.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


It all has to do with CREATION , and not disease, not science. Say what you will but, your a wolf based on the two words which you brought up.
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith Yahweh, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
Lady Wolf

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03/01/2013 08:49 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
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So you're saying that homosexuality is a choice because you live in America and it's not a birth defect then? And please do not insult my intelligence by saying that this does not affect me. Please scroll up and read my previous answer to this.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Lady Wolf, I read your previous comment to show you I am respectful.

But I'm not saying anyone is unintelligent here. No judgments here. But yes, it certainly affects you. You might have to meet some gay people who have been legally married at some point. You might have to tolerate some gay innuendo in a movie or in a TV show. You might have a friend of a friend of a friend who is gay, or you might receive status updates on your facebook page from gay people, or you might have an openly gay coworker to have to get along with on a daily basis.

All I said was no one is forcing you to have gay sex.

But a birth defect? I guess my main objection is that I really don't think being gay is a birth "defect"...

A brief story: when I was 7 years old, I knew a kid on my childhood baseball team who threw the ball "funny." "Like a girl," you could say. At least that's how my dad remembers it.

Well, this person pretended all throughout middle school that he thought girls were "hot" and that he would "totally" like to "do" this or that girl.

A few years later, when he was in college, this guy finally admitted he was gay. Big surprise, right?

The point being, we could tell from the WAY HE THREW A BASEBALL WHEN HE WAS SEVEN YEARS OLD that he was gay. Which, of course, lends support to an assumption in your argument that people are more or less "born" that way (and hence why he exhibited somewhat "homosexual" baseball throwing tendencies at such a young age).

Was he born "gay?" Sure. I have no doubt. I've known the guy my whole life. But the thing is, he's now a gastroenterologist. Whatever "defect" he might have had from birth, he has obviously proven his abilities and usefulness to the world.

What's worse is that once, while in middle school, and while I was depressed and pissed off at life (and feeling insecure, no doubt), I actually called him "gay." As a derogatory term, and to his face. That is one event in my life I am really ashamed of. I don't know why I did it, and it was stupid of me.

I apologized to him recently and he accepted my apology.

Digression aside, does he have a "birth defect?" My answer: not that I can tell. The way I see it, I'm the defective one for being an insecure idiot and insulting him for no reason.

All respect to you too, poster. If anything, I would just like to help people see the light and realize that all the animosity towards gay people is simply not worth it. It's not worth the effort. They are good people (and bad people) just like straight people you know. Look into your heart and accept your fellow man for what they are, good or bad, straight or gay. That's the true Christian attitude.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


I appreciate your respectful post and your kind words. I do not have a problem with homosexuals. What I DO have a problem with is that society has chosen to see this life style, birth defect, whatever you want to call it as something needing protection for calling it out for what it is. Abnormal. This is not personal. This is not about my being a bigot or being a "hater" or whatever the latest term is for anyone who disagrees with something. Let me ask you a question. Do you think your friend would accept a cure, if one were to be found and opt to have a normal life as a heterosexual? Do you think he enjoys being different? It's a serious question. I'd appreciate a serious response. From your previous response I feel that you'll be honest with me and willing to answer it.

From a Biblical view, men and women were created different for a reason. The marriage bed was created for a reason. The home was created with rules and guidelines to follow for a reason. Children were given a mother and father as role models for a reason. What makes man think that he can throw away the creator's blueprint for a well balanced life and basically go completely against God's plan? What arrogance! What complete and utter arrogance!
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Just for the record, I don't think that most people who oppose homosexuality actually "hate" gays or are "bigoted," and I don't think that way about you. A small minority of people actually "hate" gays, and the people who support gay rights often tend to focus on this minority to make their case for why the other side should be rejected.

But to answer your question - if I had to guess, I would think this person ( I don't talk to him much, but I guess we could be considered "friends") probably wished he could have been straight for a very long period of his life, but now probably has accepted it. But, of course, it's hard to tell. He's not exactly Mr. Gay Pride parade or anything like that, so despite his occasional effeminate tendencies, I certainly wouldn't describe him as being flamboyantly gay. It's possible you could characterize that as an example of him still being inwardly ashamed of himself, even to this day. But then again, it's also possible he just doesn't define himself by his sexuality, and isn't very political about his sexual orientation.

It's an interesting question you pose all the same. However, I think for many gay people, a "cure" could never retroactively resolve the hardship they experienced earlier in life, and thus, would probably be thought of as ineffective and pointless. Now, for those young men smack dab in the middle of being bullied in school for being effeminate and weird... I'm sure many would jump at the chance to swallow a pill or inject a shot that makes them attracted to women.

As for the part about men and women in the Bible, sure - men and women alone are able to procreate, and not same sex couples... but not everyone needs to procreate, straight or gay. It may seem arrogant now to make such a seemingly drastic change to marriage, but there have been many changes to marriage over the last two millennia which have radically reshaped marriage. Hell, even two hundred years ago women were considered property of their husbands! I would say that providing women the same rights as men in marriage has more radically altered the concept of marriage than allowing, as some states currently do, same sex couples the ability to marry.

But although we might not have changed each other's minds, I'm glad we could at least exchange a dialogue about it instead of crass insults and accusations. I admit when I'm not talking to individual people I get carried away a little myself. Don't we all? Haha. But go easy on your gay brothers and sisters! They are people too, with all their good and bad qualities, just trying to get by like the rest of us.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


I too am enjoying a rational and civil discussion with you. It is discussions such as ours that make way for learning, changing and growing. And just to clarify that, I mean it for both of us. I certainly do not hold all the answers and my walk is not necessarily your walk. I do understand and respect that. You are absolutely right. I do not hate nor judge nor single out homosexual people. It is NOT my place. But when I walk into a room, or in this case a message board like this one and the topic is on the table, and opened up for discussion, I don't mind chiming in with my views and values on the topic.

That said. My point about a homosexual opting for a cure if it were to be found, is that I can't imagine anyone actually CHOOSING this life style / birth defect for themselves and all of the confusion, pain and controversy that must come with it. While I would agree there would be much water under the proverbial bridge for some, like you, I believe that many who feel trapped by it would jump at the chance to be normal. That might infuriate some reading this post, but it is just how I feel. Homosexuality is NOT spiritually normal. And it was not what God intended when he made man and woman.

Did you know that Adam named Eve "woman" because she was taken out of "man" when a baby is born, it comes from the womb. When Eve was created she was taken "out of" Adam, a man. Think..."womb-man" It's a very good picture of how God created us to be different as well as to completely balance each other in our unique differences.

Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality, God sees it as sin. But we have ALL sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. None of us can boast that we have not sinned. But that does not mean that we should "tolerate" sin in each other. Rather, as Christians we are admonished to call each other out in sin and to "come along side each other" and "help each other" to see the error of our ways so that we will be encouraged to not keep on sinning. That is all a TRUE Christian is doing when he or she tells you that homosexuality is a sin and goes against God's laws for man kind.

Moving on to what you said about marriage and procreation. Yes, it is true that marriage was created in order that children would be born into a Godly union. I'm speaking of Godly marriages where God is the head of that marriage and the marriage is a healthy one. That does not mean that those who choose not to marry are "off the hook" or so to speak with their own righteousness and following God's laws. The body IS the temple and is not to be defiled. You still must stand before God on judgement day and answer for ALL things you have done while IN the body! This is a very grave truth, but it IS the truth! I can't state that emphatically enough!

It comes down to this. Just because you do not believe in nor care about God's laws and His plan of salvation, does NOT mean you will not be standing before Him one day and explaining yourself and your actions to Him. He tells us in the Bible that He gives us the wonders of nature in all of it's fine tuned glory so that we are "without excuse" in knowing our creator.

Here's a question to ponder. Lets say you don't believe in God. Lets say that maybe you do but you're on the fence and still justifying your sins. Let me ask you a question. If you were with your partner in a sexual way, and Jesus chose that exact moment to make His appearance again. How would you feel? It's an important question to ask yourself, because how you answer that will speak volumes about what you truly feel about what you're doing. It is sort of "when the rubber meets the road" type of question. Now know this. He does see your sin, while it's happening, and He knows your thoughts. Are you ok with this? It's a rhetorical question, but it is one that should cause you to really stop and think about your choices in life.
Real truth is self evident...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Those immoral acts could be sex with animals. You don't know! Being heterosexual myself, I do not judge the gay community, because they are what they are. Furthemore, I have known the christ consciousness or god consciousness and found no judgment PERIOD! A partnership is more than sex. Not only is it about love, but also loyalty and respect.

Why should you care what other people do with their time or lives? Does it affect you in anyway? Live and let live.
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03/01/2013 08:56 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
What god has joined let no man put asunder. Few people know what that actually means. They think it represents a couple being married in a church.
Raymantheheretic

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03/01/2013 08:57 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
It all has to do with CREATION , and not disease, not science. Say what you will but, your a wolf based on the two words which you brought up.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift
And you're (not your) blind to the ultimate truth the Book and Jesus/Yashua that you have so much faith in have set before you.

Work on yourself being Holy. Not each other.

Amen
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
The bible has it all over, the book of romans probably being the most hardline in the new testament, equating homosexuality with bestiality.

Completely agree OP, but expect alot of hate for preaching the truth.
 Quoting: Tatsuya


Unfortunately, many people associate homosexuality(same sex) with nothing, but a sexual act. A partnership is much more than just sex. Allow these people to live their lives with dignity and respect, because after watching a documentary on same sex couples, I realized that many have a very spiritual life-long love for each other.

Get your minds out of the gutter.
ParadigmShift

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
It all has to do with CREATION , and not disease, not science. Say what you will but, your a wolf based on the two words which you brought up.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift
And you're (not your) blind to the ultimate truth the Book and Jesus/Yashua that you have so much faith in have set before you.

Work on yourself being Holy. Not each other.

Amen
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Does love not require us to share the truth?
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith Yahweh, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
ParadigmShift

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03/01/2013 09:21 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
The bible has it all over, the book of romans probably being the most hardline in the new testament, equating homosexuality with bestiality.

Completely agree OP, but expect alot of hate for preaching the truth.
 Quoting: Tatsuya


Unfortunately, many people associate homosexuality(same sex) with nothing, but a sexual act. A partnership is much more than just sex. Allow these people to live their lives with dignity and respect, because after watching a documentary on same sex couples, I realized that many have a very spiritual life-long love for each other.

Get your minds out of the gutter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32938997


It's sinful nothing more nothing less, it's not about love, or the relationship, it's about the LAW
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith Yahweh, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 09:39 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
if Homosexuality was good, satan would not be preaching it in everyday msm.. just open your eyes and know your enemies..

Homosexuality is from hell... fallen angels deceiving mankind since long ago

those who loves god have to stand up against homosexuality.. otherwise, will be as guilt as the ones who practices.
Raymantheheretic

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03/01/2013 09:55 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
It all has to do with CREATION , and not disease, not science. Say what you will but, your a wolf based on the two words which you brought up.
 Quoting: ParadigmShift
And you're (not your) blind to the ultimate truth the Book and Jesus/Yashua that you have so much faith in have set before you.

Work on yourself being Holy. Not each other.

Amen
 Quoting: Raymantheheretic


Does love not require us to share the truth?
 Quoting: ParadigmShift

So share the truth you Know, not truths you think you know.

What do you know of the lust one man has for another man? Like me, I gather, nothing. Something we can both be thankful for. Praise be!

Yet when someone like anom tries to share his pain and to offer a glimpse of his own personal resolution you refuse to listen and insist it could only be the work of Satan. I'm sorry but when a contrite teenager prays for five years not to be the way he is and the only answer he receives is 'God loves you' I just have to accept it and move on and not feel entitled to pass judgment on his personal relationship with the Creator. Aside from saying to try your best to not be entering the exit or vise verse ;)

that's the wolf/science guy in me I guess...
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 09:57 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
btw, enoch received parables of above, just as your temple is abstract, but i remember you pick and choose what is abstract, temple yes, marriage no.
 Quoting: anom 35335472



Enoch wasn't given Parables, Enoch was brought into Heaven and shown the wonders. My brother I don't condemn you, but God is not a hypocrite as His son showed us. I am only saying this because I LOVE you. Judgment day comes sooner then you think my friend
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


By you? I have been at a high level and there is no judgmental god. That is a fallacy written and made up by man. We judge ourselves and hold it in our spirit,until we forgive ourselves.

wow, you have judged your own mother? Be careful....you might be here next time around to learn a lesson.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 10:00 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
The bible has it all over, the book of romans probably being the most hardline in the new testament, equating homosexuality with bestiality.

Completely agree OP, but expect alot of hate for preaching the truth.
 Quoting: Tatsuya


Unfortunately, many people associate homosexuality(same sex) with nothing, but a sexual act. A partnership is much more than just sex. Allow these people to live their lives with dignity and respect, because after watching a documentary on same sex couples, I realized that many have a very spiritual life-long love for each other.

Get your minds out of the gutter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32938997


It's sinful nothing more nothing less, it's not about love, or the relationship, it's about the LAW
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE LAW OR YOU WOULDN'T BE ON THIS FORUM JUDGING LIKE THE LEADERS OF THE BIBLE. YOU KNOW NOTHING AND YOU KNOW NOTHING CONCERNING UNIVERSAL LAW. JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 10:01 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
if Homosexuality was good, satan would not be preaching it in everyday msm.. just open your eyes and know your enemies..

Homosexuality is from hell... fallen angels deceiving mankind since long ago

those who loves god have to stand up against homosexuality.. otherwise, will be as guilt as the ones who practices.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35403448


You know nothing about god or your true essence. Not in this lifetime.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 10:02 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
I hear often from gay rights activists that Jesus Christ never spoke out about homosexuality or that He never mentioned sexual orientation. This is to set the record straight, so that those with an agenda can stop claiming things they know nothing about.

This first passage is Jesus Christ speaking out against homosexuality. Notice that He differentiates between adultery and sexual immorality - this is important to note because the term 'homosexuality' was not common during His time obviously, so He used the term sexual immorality - separate from adultery - to encompass homosexuality and any other sexual wickedness that is immoral:

Mark 7:21-22

"For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly."

This next passage is Jesus' affirmation of the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. He even goes as far as referencing the story of Creation in which God created male and female. Notice how He specifies a man and wife, not a man and his partner or a woman and her partner:

Matthew 19:4-5

"Haven't you read," He replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?"

So, do not let anyone tell you that Jesus Christ never spoke out against homosexuality, and that He didn't support traditional marriage. Furthermore, it is not possible for you to be a gay Christian. That is the same thing as claiming to be a Christian thief - if you are unrepentant for your sin and you continue that sin in ignorance of Jesus' teachings, you are a walking contradiction.

With all of this being said, it is wrong to cast judgment on others if we ourselves are in need of judgment. However, it is also wrong to support and sponsor immorality while at the same time denigrating the traditional definition of marriage, as Jesus taught us. We all should love homosexuals as we love each other, and in that love, we should yearn to help them overcome their illness of the mind.
 Quoting: Rising Son


He without sin cast the first stone.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 10:04 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
The bible has it all over, the book of romans probably being the most hardline in the new testament, equating homosexuality with bestiality.

Completely agree OP, but expect alot of hate for preaching the truth.
 Quoting: Tatsuya


Unfortunately, many people associate homosexuality(same sex) with nothing, but a sexual act. A partnership is much more than just sex. Allow these people to live their lives with dignity and respect, because after watching a documentary on same sex couples, I realized that many have a very spiritual life-long love for each other.

Get your minds out of the gutter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32938997


It's sinful nothing more nothing less, it's not about love, or the relationship, it's about the LAW
 Quoting: ParadigmShift


Aren't you the self-righteous.

You don't know anything, except interpreting scripture to fit your own perceptions of life. You have not been at a high level. It's not outside of you or in a book.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 10:09 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
...


Lady Wolf, I read your previous comment to show you I am respectful.

But I'm not saying anyone is unintelligent here. No judgments here. But yes, it certainly affects you. You might have to meet some gay people who have been legally married at some point. You might have to tolerate some gay innuendo in a movie or in a TV show. You might have a friend of a friend of a friend who is gay, or you might receive status updates on your facebook page from gay people, or you might have an openly gay coworker to have to get along with on a daily basis.

All I said was no one is forcing you to have gay sex.

But a birth defect? I guess my main objection is that I really don't think being gay is a birth "defect"...

A brief story: when I was 7 years old, I knew a kid on my childhood baseball team who threw the ball "funny." "Like a girl," you could say. At least that's how my dad remembers it.

Well, this person pretended all throughout middle school that he thought girls were "hot" and that he would "totally" like to "do" this or that girl.

A few years later, when he was in college, this guy finally admitted he was gay. Big surprise, right?

The point being, we could tell from the WAY HE THREW A BASEBALL WHEN HE WAS SEVEN YEARS OLD that he was gay. Which, of course, lends support to an assumption in your argument that people are more or less "born" that way (and hence why he exhibited somewhat "homosexual" baseball throwing tendencies at such a young age).

Was he born "gay?" Sure. I have no doubt. I've known the guy my whole life. But the thing is, he's now a gastroenterologist. Whatever "defect" he might have had from birth, he has obviously proven his abilities and usefulness to the world.

What's worse is that once, while in middle school, and while I was depressed and pissed off at life (and feeling insecure, no doubt), I actually called him "gay." As a derogatory term, and to his face. That is one event in my life I am really ashamed of. I don't know why I did it, and it was stupid of me.

I apologized to him recently and he accepted my apology.

Digression aside, does he have a "birth defect?" My answer: not that I can tell. The way I see it, I'm the defective one for being an insecure idiot and insulting him for no reason.

All respect to you too, poster. If anything, I would just like to help people see the light and realize that all the animosity towards gay people is simply not worth it. It's not worth the effort. They are good people (and bad people) just like straight people you know. Look into your heart and accept your fellow man for what they are, good or bad, straight or gay. That's the true Christian attitude.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


I appreciate your respectful post and your kind words. I do not have a problem with homosexuals. What I DO have a problem with is that society has chosen to see this life style, birth defect, whatever you want to call it as something needing protection for calling it out for what it is. Abnormal. This is not personal. This is not about my being a bigot or being a "hater" or whatever the latest term is for anyone who disagrees with something. Let me ask you a question. Do you think your friend would accept a cure, if one were to be found and opt to have a normal life as a heterosexual? Do you think he enjoys being different? It's a serious question. I'd appreciate a serious response. From your previous response I feel that you'll be honest with me and willing to answer it.

From a Biblical view, men and women were created different for a reason. The marriage bed was created for a reason. The home was created with rules and guidelines to follow for a reason. Children were given a mother and father as role models for a reason. What makes man think that he can throw away the creator's blueprint for a well balanced life and basically go completely against God's plan? What arrogance! What complete and utter arrogance!
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Just for the record, I don't think that most people who oppose homosexuality actually "hate" gays or are "bigoted," and I don't think that way about you. A small minority of people actually "hate" gays, and the people who support gay rights often tend to focus on this minority to make their case for why the other side should be rejected.

But to answer your question - if I had to guess, I would think this person ( I don't talk to him much, but I guess we could be considered "friends") probably wished he could have been straight for a very long period of his life, but now probably has accepted it. But, of course, it's hard to tell. He's not exactly Mr. Gay Pride parade or anything like that, so despite his occasional effeminate tendencies, I certainly wouldn't describe him as being flamboyantly gay. It's possible you could characterize that as an example of him still being inwardly ashamed of himself, even to this day. But then again, it's also possible he just doesn't define himself by his sexuality, and isn't very political about his sexual orientation.

It's an interesting question you pose all the same. However, I think for many gay people, a "cure" could never retroactively resolve the hardship they experienced earlier in life, and thus, would probably be thought of as ineffective and pointless. Now, for those young men smack dab in the middle of being bullied in school for being effeminate and weird... I'm sure many would jump at the chance to swallow a pill or inject a shot that makes them attracted to women.

As for the part about men and women in the Bible, sure - men and women alone are able to procreate, and not same sex couples... but not everyone needs to procreate, straight or gay. It may seem arrogant now to make such a seemingly drastic change to marriage, but there have been many changes to marriage over the last two millennia which have radically reshaped marriage. Hell, even two hundred years ago women were considered property of their husbands! I would say that providing women the same rights as men in marriage has more radically altered the concept of marriage than allowing, as some states currently do, same sex couples the ability to marry.

But although we might not have changed each other's minds, I'm glad we could at least exchange a dialogue about it instead of crass insults and accusations. I admit when I'm not talking to individual people I get carried away a little myself. Don't we all? Haha. But go easy on your gay brothers and sisters! They are people too, with all their good and bad qualities, just trying to get by like the rest of us.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34900904


I too am enjoying a rational and civil discussion with you. It is discussions such as ours that make way for learning, changing and growing. And just to clarify that, I mean it for both of us. I certainly do not hold all the answers and my walk is not necessarily your walk. I do understand and respect that. You are absolutely right. I do not hate nor judge nor single out homosexual people. It is NOT my place. But when I walk into a room, or in this case a message board like this one and the topic is on the table, and opened up for discussion, I don't mind chiming in with my views and values on the topic.

That said. My point about a homosexual opting for a cure if it were to be found, is that I can't imagine anyone actually CHOOSING this life style / birth defect for themselves and all of the confusion, pain and controversy that must come with it. While I would agree there would be much water under the proverbial bridge for some, like you, I believe that many who feel trapped by it would jump at the chance to be normal. That might infuriate some reading this post, but it is just how I feel. Homosexuality is NOT spiritually normal. And it was not what God intended when he made man and woman.

Did you know that Adam named Eve "woman" because she was taken out of "man" when a baby is born, it comes from the womb. When Eve was created she was taken "out of" Adam, a man. Think..."womb-man" It's a very good picture of how God created us to be different as well as to completely balance each other in our unique differences.

Regardless of how you feel about homosexuality, God sees it as sin. But we have ALL sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. None of us can boast that we have not sinned. But that does not mean that we should "tolerate" sin in each other. Rather, as Christians we are admonished to call each other out in sin and to "come along side each other" and "help each other" to see the error of our ways so that we will be encouraged to not keep on sinning. That is all a TRUE Christian is doing when he or she tells you that homosexuality is a sin and goes against God's laws for man kind.

Moving on to what you said about marriage and procreation. Yes, it is true that marriage was created in order that children would be born into a Godly union. I'm speaking of Godly marriages where God is the head of that marriage and the marriage is a healthy one. That does not mean that those who choose not to marry are "off the hook" or so to speak with their own righteousness and following God's laws. The body IS the temple and is not to be defiled. You still must stand before God on judgement day and answer for ALL things you have done while IN the body! This is a very grave truth, but it IS the truth! I can't state that emphatically enough!

It comes down to this. Just because you do not believe in nor care about God's laws and His plan of salvation, does NOT mean you will not be standing before Him one day and explaining yourself and your actions to Him. He tells us in the Bible that He gives us the wonders of nature in all of it's fine tuned glory so that we are "without excuse" in knowing our creator.

Here's a question to ponder. Lets say you don't believe in God. Lets say that maybe you do but you're on the fence and still justifying your sins. Let me ask you a question. If you were with your partner in a sexual way, and Jesus chose that exact moment to make His appearance again. How would you feel? It's an important question to ask yourself, because how you answer that will speak volumes about what you truly feel about what you're doing. It is sort of "when the rubber meets the road" type of question. Now know this. He does see your sin, while it's happening, and He knows your thoughts. Are you ok with this? It's a rhetorical question, but it is one that should cause you to really stop and think about your choices in life.
 Quoting: Lady Wolf


Look, you preaching to some of us is the equivalent of a Muslim trying to convince you of their faith. I know your faith is bullshit.
Rising Son (OP)
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03/01/2013 10:51 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
Regardless of what argument you make trying to accept it as 'love' or 'natural', it is clearly outlined in the bible as wrong by both God and Jesus Christ. You can try to validate and justify all you want, but it does not change that fact. With that said, you can believe whatever you want to believe, just know that you were told and you disregarded the warning. I am not personally going after gay people and attacking them, I am just pointing this out for everyone to see - just so there is no confusion.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

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Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 10:52 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
The bible was written by man and you do not know the Christ as i have.
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 10:54 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
AND NO, Jesus did not preach at all about homosexuality.
Rising Son (OP)
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03/01/2013 10:59 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
The bible was written by man and you do not know the Christ as i have.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32938997


Whatever you have to tell yourself to make it feel less guilty when you sin. The Law is the Law, no matter how you interpret it.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

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Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 11:11 PM
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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
The bible was written by man and you do not know the Christ as i have.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32938997


Whatever you have to tell yourself to make it feel less guilty when you sin. The Law is the Law, no matter how you interpret it.
 Quoting: Rising Son


I have nothing to feel guilty about and I am heterosexual. Believe me, you have a lot to learn, because you have never touched upon a spiritual level.

Sorry, but you are at the bottom of the spiritual ladder.
Rising Son (OP)
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03/01/2013 11:16 PM

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Re: Jesus Christ Preached Against Homosexuality, But He Also Said Not To Judge Others
The bible was written by man and you do not know the Christ as i have.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32938997


Whatever you have to tell yourself to make it feel less guilty when you sin. The Law is the Law, no matter how you interpret it.
 Quoting: Rising Son


I have nothing to feel guilty about and I am heterosexual. Believe me, you have a lot to learn, because you have never touched upon a spiritual level.

Sorry, but you are at the bottom of the spiritual ladder.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32938997


You are who you associate with or who you befriend. If I excused the conduct of a murderer or a thief and justified why they hadn't sinned, I would be just as guilty as the sinner.

As far as spirituality, you make the mistake of assuming I somehow need your validation. My validation comes from within, and it was given to me by the Holy Spirit. There is no 'ranking' or 'ladder' in spirituality, you either get it, or you don't. Here's a hint - it usually starts with humility...
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

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